I know exactly what Obama meant...so do you, so does the media,

[Raven]

so does the Clinton campaign. Any woman who is pro choice who calls him out for this is a disgrace.

[anonymous171]

1. This is why Clinton isn't doing so well with liberal groups.

[McCamy Taylor]

61. How is this anything to do with Clinton? Please explain?

I am sort of bewildered by this trend. When Obama mispeaks, there is a tendency here to jump up and down and point fingers at Hillary as if to say "She made him do it with her laser beam eyes!"

Dudes, if she is that powerful, then I want her as my president. She would kick some serious butt.

But I kind of doubt that she is.

[merh]

74. It has to do with Clinton because her supporters have posted

a brazillion threads on the distortions. Hillary and Obama share the same views, her supporters know that or should know that if they are familiar with her positions (and her website). Her supporters here make it about her when they go after Obama while ignoring the facts - those facts being she shares his views regarding sex education and unplanned pregnancies and pro-choice.

To say otherwise and to continue to post the false outrage threads is either a sign of dishonesty and/or sheer ignorance.

[TheWraith]

80. Obama didn't misspeak. What he said is being distorted and changed.

People are literally saying that he said the OPPOSITE of what he actually said. That's bullshit.

[sueragingroz]

81. omfg

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

She is evil with those laser beam eyes...

[NanceGreggs]

2. And I know ...

... exactly what you mean!

:kick: & REC'D!

[anamandujano]

3. Everyone also knew what Kerry and Gore said.

Good luck with that line of attack.

[Raven]

8. Wasn't a "line of attack"...was a statement of fact. n/t

[anamandujano]

Whatever it was, I wish you good luck with it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. Yeah, like when Hillary Clinton defended Kerry

when people took him out of context.

Oh, wait...

[Window]

14. Keep looking and hoping and praying that you "actually"

find something to hurt Senator Obama. I don't understand people like you and the hate you exhibit toward Senator Obama. Maybe it's just me, but when I hear things about Senator Clinton that aren't fair, I feel badly for her. I don't take joy in others misfortunes. Keep hatin' hater.

[anamandujano]

27. I don't hate him. The guy is a twit. I feel sorry for our country that

he is being pushed forward. If we want a black president, we have an amazing pool of talent to run. This guy is running on his ego only.

Now anyone who doesn't worship the Obomba is a hater. Did you have to give up calling racist because of your rationalizations of Rev. Wrong?

[Forkboy]

29. You sport that pic and claim not to be a hater.

:rofl:

[Toucano]

32. Yeah, what's the deal with that pic?

What does it even mean?

[Forkboy]

40. It means the poster is a liar.

[anamandujano]

Have you not yet seen the overwhelming amount of this kind of stuff

portraying Hillary? I know you have so STFU.

You can't take a taste of your own medicine?

You get your friends to take down their shit and I'll consider retiring my new sig. It's only been here a few days and we've been seeing nasty photoshops of Hillary for months.

[Forkboy]

43. Blah blah..."I hate them so I'll act just like them".

You can't take a taste of your own medicine?

See a pic in my sig line like that?

I've also said some of the Hillary ones suck too.

Clown.

[Window]

34. Yeah, right.

[roseBudd]

51. "If we want a black president, we have an amazing pool of talent to run" who would that be since

you are so sure "Obomba is a twit"

Personally I think you are a self-righteous one trick pony

[anamandujano]

75. Let's see, we have Sheila Jackson Lee, Kweisi Mfume, John Lewis,

John Conyers, Maxine Waters, Charlie Rangal and even da da da dum ta dum Jesse Jackson.

I'm sure there are more. These are people who have been around for awhile and no one can question their credentials.

They know the legislative procedures, they know the issues, they are smart, hard working, tough, and resilient. They have pretty much been vetted.

If someone were to throw the kind of money at them that has been thrown at Obama, they would be competitive and they would be giving any candidate a serious run for the money.

[SoonerPride]

79. plonk. Any editor of the Harvard Law Review is not a twit.

ignore list forever for you.

[cali]

91. Sure you hate him. You won't vote for him if he's the nominee

and you call him every name in the book-repeatedly. You ooze hate for him. Why be so disingenuous?

[Forkboy]

92. Hey, don't forget this pearl of wisdom from anamandujano

"Obama will have the most humiliating defeat in election history. That will be this Hillary supporter's consolation prize."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5294695#5298626

[cali]

93. good one

but that's not hate, is it? Just because she'd rather see McClame as president and 100 years of war, doesn't mean she hates him.

[cali]

94. good one

but that's not hate, is it? Just because she'd rather see McClame as president and 100 years of war, doesn't mean she hates him.

[anamandujano]

95. Are you stalking me Fork? It's against the rules.

[Forkboy]

96. Better alert and tell the Admins someone is pointing out you think McCain is a prize.

[walldude]

38. Kerry and Gore were attacked by Republicans

get it? I didn't think so....

[anamandujano]

70. Obama opened his mouth. That is worse than being attacked by Repukes.

[RichardRay]

67. Actually I guess it wasn't the wrong poster

and I'm happy to say it again if the first time didn't get through.

You're playing bullshit games. That's the kind of stuff that belongs in a faculty lounge someplace.

[RichardRay]

68. And so that makes you.... who?

Rush, Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, Karl Rove?

Yes, any of them could have taken that statement and done with it exactly what was done with this one, and then we'd have had to counter just as we had to this time.

Does that make you happy? Or, are you just doing it to help make us stronger?

Gee, thanks, good to know you have the best interests of everyone in mind, there....

[anamandujano]

72. Who done what with it? The MSM?

Not me. Not Hillary.

Maybe Keefe can make it all better tonight.

[depakid]

4. Knowing what one may have meant -and dealing with the reality of the political dynamic

are two entirely separate things....

[northzax]

65. of course

words matter. And the bar is set higher for Obama because of his well-deserved reputation as a brilliant orator. Do I think he meant what he said? I hope not. But the fact remains that what you say under the microscope of a campaign does, in fact, matter. Everything you say matters. He asked for, and earned, the klieg lights, now he has to deal with that. He's no longer an up and coming back bencher, it's prime time now, and when you cultivate a reputation of using words powerfully (I would say a reputation for eloquence or being articulate, but those are loaded words here) you have to watch what you say. People expect him to say something meaningful and profound everytime he opens his mouth, and not living up to that can be crippling. But for now, he gets the benefit of the doubt from me, and I don't particularly like the guy.

[merh]

5. Recommendation #5

and glad to do it. I agree with you 100%.

This crap is getting tiresome.

Fake outrage and then created victimhood, and they are feminists how?

[silverweb]

6. Yup.

The MO of the opposition (Democratic OR Republican) is "distort, distract, and divide."

Haven't we had enough of that?

The more of us who are beyond falling into that trap, the better.

[Catherine Vincent]

7. Your guy goofed. Deal with it. nt

[Raven]

10. He didn't goof unless telling the absolute unvarnshed truth is

a goof.

[anamandujano]

28. Like Rev. Wrong.

[kmsarvis]

66. REV.WRONG,

HOW WITTY!!!:sarcasm:

[joshcryer]

55. Generalizations would not qualify for "absolute unvarnished truth."

Generalizations are, in general, unfair.

[Kittycat]

12. How is it a goof? Should he say that Woman deserve to be punished?

Should he stand on stage and tell them that he's going to take away their right to make decisions over their body, that impact not only them, but their family?

[Raven]

17. Right, Kitty. He said what we all know describes the attitude of

a segment of this country and why anyone who is pro choice would criticize him for it is really beyond me and very disturbing.

[tekisui]

15. He did not goof.

This is the most ridiculous fake outrage since the last one.

Your girl lost. Deal with it.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

21. You believe pregnancy should be used as a punishment?

Please explain that.

[Raven]

24. Some people actually do but I'm surprised to find them here. A knew

a woman once who said "You make your bed, you lie in it". I got the point!

[ampad]

9. It's pretty disgusting

and reeks (once again) of desperation.

[Scurrilous]

13. K & R

:thumbsup:

[DearAbby]

16. Everyone should be in total agreement with Obama on this

There is nothing wrong with educating our children about sex. Ignorance can cause some very punishing situations. We all know in context, that is what this statement was all about.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. An anti-choice freak blows her cookies and we have this bullshit?

Will wonders never cease.

[MarjorieG]

19. Andrea is a gal pal who sat silent while she knew the truth about Bosnia.

Shame on Andrea Mitchell once again. Will not help Clinton, no matter how much she tries to damage obama.

[walldude]

20. No, no, he "called my baby a punishment" said my mom,

So I reminded her of the time I tried to put a tin can in the microwave and it exploded.

Then I reminded her of the time I got arrested for shoplifting at age 10.

Then I reminded her of the time I didn't like the new carpet in my room, so I painted it black. Age 12

Then I reminded her of the time I had a party while her and my dad were gone for the weekend. Only $1500 in damages. Age 14

The I reminded her of the time I took the car out without permission or insurance and wrecked it. Age 16.

She's still supporting Hillary but she got the point.


Sure I was a blessing, I was also a curse. Any parent who pulls this "my child isn't a punishment" crap, is either full of shit, or needs to call Guinness to let them know about the world's first "perfect" child. Obama didn't mean it the way it's being spun but the spinners are even more full of shit when they talk about their "perfect children." If this is the best they can do against Obama, it's no wonder they are spinning so desperately.

[Raven]

22. Gosh, you were a model child compared to me and my bros! n/t

[walldude]

25. Hey gimme a break that was the short version

and don't even get me started on my own kids :rofl: :rofl:

[Kber]

54. May you have children just like you

traditional mother's blessing /curse.

Personally I always thought it completely unfair that, as a result of my husband's misdeeds as a child and teenager, that I should be saddled with his mother's curse on him, but that's what I get for not reading the fine print, I suppose.

Oh - and while I do (almost) always feel blessed by my two children, my three pregnancy's were nothing but a curse. So there.

[totodeinhere]

23. Some of the DU Clinton supporters who are criticizing Obama for this...

are the very people who should be backing him up. These are the same people who have stood up for women's rights so often in the past. So they should be commending Obama for what he said, not criticizing him.

[anamandujano]

33. Maybe they are critiquing his judgment or choice of words.

[Raven]

41. And just what was wrong with his judgment and his choice of words? n/t

[depakid]

62. If you can't see that...

then you haven't much experience watching politics or being involved with campaigns.

Off the cuff remarks like this that have brought many a candidate and campaign down.

How this plays out remains to be seen- but I'll guarantee you that at the very least, Obama regrets his choice of words.

[Mike03]

26. Agree Completely! These people who presumably have some cerebral cortex left but

pretend they don't know what Obama said do not even rise to the level of being pathetic.

It's simply embarrassing that people would want to identify themselves publicly as being so retarded that they can't understand what Obama said.

[Forkboy]

30. Trolls, losers, fucking idiots, or all three.

[journalist3072]

31. Well, there are plenty of times when the Obama freaks and the MSM know what Sen. Clinton means...and

you distort it anyway.

Taste of your own medicine, perhaps?

[Mike03]

35. You are right too. That has happened constantly, even on some of the

liberal talk shows I listen to.

And many of us have condemned idiocy on both sides.

Since when do two wrongs make a right?

[Raven]

36. A tit for a tat is not a game you play when you're dealing with a

woman's right to choose. Don't you have the good judgment to know what's important?

[Forkboy]

44. "Don't you have the good judgment to know what's important?"

That person has said they'll work for McCain to keep Obama out of the White House.

So the answer is "no".

[Raven]

45. Now maybe I understand why some here don't give a shit about what

happens to the Supreme Court. Shame on me for not being more cynical.

[Mike03]

49. Yup. It's really depressing and self-defeating. NT

[joshcryer]

59. Obama wants moderate judges.

And has in the past attempted to vote for even more conservative judges.

[anamandujano]

76. Yikes! Thanks for doing your homework on this. I had no idea.

[joshcryer]

57. Um, everything is fair game in this election cycle. This isn't about issues. It's about drama.

If it was about issues and policy decisions Obama would not be polling over 5%.

[anamandujano]

77. .

:thumbsup:

[dchill]

37. My thoughts exactly.

I think that a LOT of people who are railing against what he said have been through the "punishment" scenario - one way or another.

[Bake]

39. I know exactly what Jeremiah Wright meant, too. And so does the media.

Bake

[Tarheel_Dem]

47. look out for that "sniper"

:rofl:

[Umbram]

42. Well stated. (nt)

[screembloodymurder]

46. He meant "punished for a moment of passion".

Any parent who hasn't used this line or a similar idea to preach safe sex isn't doing their job.

[TexasLady]

48. I have two teen girls

still in school, and them getting pregnant now, punishes ME too!!!! I don't WANNA raise anymore, but I'd have to for a while anyway!

fingers crossed, so far my preaching has worked well.

I just want them independent, then they can do what they want to.

[Raven]

52. Interesting how Obama's comments hit home on many levels.

From the women here who say that having a child at their particular stage in their lives would be a "punishment" to folks who jokingly talk about their children punishing them everyday to you who worry about your girls and the effect of a pregnancy when they are not ready to care for a child. This would be a good healthy discussion if it were not so layered with politics and one-upmanship...or one-upwomanship.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

50. So this is 'Kitchen Sink Hillary' at work again?

[wildeyed]

53. Ah, Baby Gate.

It is just sad :(

[LTR]

56. The only people who don't understand it are morons who need everything explained to them

I keep thinking of the movie "Idiocracy," particularly the long ridiculous debate over whether it's a good idea to water crops with sports drinks.

People who read anything into this are just looking for reasons to nit-pick at him.

[McCamy Taylor]

58. We all know what Hillary meant about Bosnia, too. She was scared.

That was what she was trying to convey.

[Forkboy]

60. She didn't look very scared in the video.

Nor did the little girl reading the poem. :shrug:

[McCamy Taylor]

64. Hillary's good at hiding her emotions. Remember? The "ice queen".

That is why all the Obama people accuse her of fake crying in New Hampshire. Because she does not let them out very much. But when you are up in the air and people are sitting on their body armor like a scene out of Apocalypse Now everyone gets scared. Even Sinbad. He is just playing macho. I'll bet he told some great war stories to his buddies back home about going to Bosnia.

[Forkboy]

69. No offense, but I truly think she just flat out lied.

I don't think it has anything to do with hiding emotions. I think it has everything to do with her trying to look experienced under fire. Now, whether she feels the need to appear that way due to pressures put on a woman to look tough is another issue, but it's still no excuse for the lying itself. And it was a lie. We all know that when a politician says they "misspoke" they really mean they got caught lying. This goes for all of them, not just her.

As for Sinbad, he's as funny as the plague, so I can only imagine how good those stories were. ;)

[anamandujano]

73. I found out some new information in McCamy's new thread. Ron Brown

took off from the same airfield when he had his fatal crash.

I think we can safely place the trip into the dangerous category, however many smiles there might have been.

[Forkboy]

83. Still doesn't change the fact that she lied about sniper fire.

Rationalize it all you want...she lied.

[merh]

78. It was so dangerous and she was so scared

she brought her only child with her to that political event (if you watch the clip, you will see that is exactly what it was). She was so scared and it was so dangerous that the President allowed his only child to accompany her and the military leaders put the lives of the first lady and the only child of the president in harms way.

BULL SHIT

and she told her version more than once - four times I believe was the official count - and each time was not due sleep deprivation.

[Guava Jelly]

63. They know

They aren't quite themselves right now.
Maybe they drank some sort of Kool-aid? Maybe they are a cult? double :sarcasm:

[Lord Helmet]

71. it's pointless, kind of like the Clinton campaign

[Poll_Blind]

82. Agreed. n/t

PB

[elixir]

84. It was a stupid move to call an unwanted pregnancy as punishment. Plain and simple. No gender card.

[JoFerret]

85. Actually, I don't

I can make a fair enough guess but truly - I do not think reproductive rights are as high on his agenda as I would prefer them to be. Ditto gay rights.

[Reterr]

86. Recd.eom

[stillcool]

87. Here's how I feel about unwanted babies..

Keep in mind these are government statistics. Just imagine what the real numbers are...

• In 2000, 1.5 million U.S. children had an incarcerated parent. Between 1990-2001, the number of women in prison increased by 106%.
• In 1995, 12% of children in foster care had not received routine health care. 90% had not received services to address developmental delays.
• Between 1992-2002, the number of infants and toddlers entering foster care increased by 110%.
• In 1993, more than 60% of the homeless population in NYC municipal shelters were former foster youth.
• According to a 1999 report, less than 50% of foster youth had graduated from high school, compared to 85% of the general population.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are more than half a million children and youth in the U.S. foster care system, a 90% increase since 1987.Three of 10 of the nation’s homeless are former foster children.
A recent study has found that 12-18 months after leaving foster care:
27% of the males and 10% of the females had been incarcerated
33% were receiving public assistance
37% had not finished high school
50% were unemployed
Children in foster care are three to six times more likely than children not in care to have emotional, behavioral and developmental problems,

A study by the National Center for Mental Health and Juvenille Justice found 70% of these youth meet the criteria for at least one mental health disorder. What's worse is that 36% of the parents of these youth intentionaly involved the juvenille justice system to access mental health services...some 12,700 children were places in either child welfare, or the juvenilled justice systems to access mental health systems (U.S. GAO 2003) Of course, the U.S. DOJ in recent investigations into the conditions in these juvenille detention and correctional facilities, found inadequate access to treatment, inappropriate use of medications, and neglect of suicide attempts nationwide (U.S.DOJ 2005).
---80 percent of prison inmates have been through the foster care system.

* 872,000 children and youth were confirmed victims of abuse or neglect in the United States in 2004.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/stats_research/afcars/statistics/entryexit2005.htm
Foster Care in the Year 2020 (if nothing changes in child welfare trends)
Children who will experience the foster care system Over 9,000,00014
Children who will age out of the foster care system 300,00015
Foster youth aging out of the system that will experience homelessness 75,00016
Foster youth aging out of the system that graduate from college 9,00017
Number of children killed by abuse or neglect 22,50018
http://www.casey.org/MediaCenter/MediaKit/FactSheet.htm

In 1999, an estimated 3,244,000 children were reported to Child Protective Services (CPS) agencies as alleged victims of child maltreatment. Child abuse reports have maintained a steady growth for the past ten years, with the total number of reports nationwide increasing 45% since 1987 (Nation Committee for the Prevention of Child Abuse (NCPCA) 2000 Annual Fifty State Survey).
-----------

In 1999, an estimated 1,401 child abuse and neglect related fatalities were confirmed by CPS agencies, nearly 4 every day. Since 1985, the rate of child abuse fatalities has increased by 39%. Based on these numbers, more than three children die each day as a result of child abuse or neglect (NCPCA's 1996 Annual Fifty State Survey).

The U.S. Advisory Board reported that near fatal abuse and neglect each year leave "18,000 permanently disabled children, tens of thousands of victims overwhelmed by lifelong psychological trauma, thousands of traumatized siblings and family members, and thousands of near-death survivors who, as adults, continue to bear the physical and psychological scars. Some may turn to crime or domestic violence or become abusers themselves (U.S. Advisory Board on Child Abuse and Neglect, 1995 report, A National's Shame.)"
-----------------------------
Finding of the NIS-3:

* The estimated number of children seriously injured by all forms of maltreatment quadrupled between 1986 and 1993, from 141,700 to 565,000 (a 299% increase).
* Considering the Harm Standard:
* The estimated number of sexually abused children increased 83%;
* The number of physically neglected children rose 102%;
* There was a 333 % increase in the estimated number of emotionally neglected children; and
* The estimated number of physically abused children rose 42%.

Poverty is significantly related to incidence rates in nearly every category of maltreatment. Compared to children whose families earned $30,000 or more, children in families with annual incomes below $15,000 were:

* More than 22 times more likely to experience maltreatment under the Harm Standard and 25 times more likely under the Endangerment Standard.
* More than 44 times more likely to be neglected, by either definitional standard.
* Over 22 times more likely to be seriously injured using either definitional standard.
* 60 times more likely to die from maltreatment under the Harm Standard.


(Executive Summary of the Third National Incidence Study of Child Abuse and Neglect, September 1996 and Reid, T. (1996). News NIS-3 Data. APSAC Advisor, 9 (3).)
Children whose parents abuse drugs or alcohol are put at a greater risk for violent victimization (National Commission on Children, 1993).

With the exception of homicide, children and youths suffer more victimization than do adults in virtually every category, including physical abuse, sibling assault, bullying, sexual abuse, and rape (American Psychological Association Commission on Violence and Youth, 1993).

It is estimated that children with disabilities are 4 to 10 times more vulnerable to sexual abuse than their non-disabled peers (National Resource Center on Child Sexual Abuse, 1992).

In over 9000 divorces in 12 states, child sexual abuse allegations were made in less then 2% of contested divorces involving child custody (Association of Family Conciliation Courts, 1990).

Survivors:
It is estimated that there are 60 million survivors of childhood sexual abuse in America today (Forward, 1993)

Long term effects of child abuse include fear, anxiety, depression, anger, hostility, inappropriate sexual behavior, poor self esteem, tendency toward substance abuse and difficulty with close relationships (Browne & Finkelhor, 1986).

Clinical findings of adult victims of sexual abuse include problems in interpersonal relationships associated with an underlying mistrust. Generally, adult victims of incest have a severely strained relationship with their parents that is marked by feelings of mistrust, fear, ambivalence, hatred, and betrayal. These feelings may extend to all family members (Tsai and Wagner, 1978).

Guilt is experienced by almost all victims (Tsai and Wagner, 1978).

If a child victim does not resolve the trauma, sexuality may become an area of adult conflict (Courtois & Watts, 1982).

Adults who viewed domestic violence in the home as children have a greater difficulty holding jobs, maintaining relationships with their peers and have a higher risk of developing mental health disorders (Patterson, 1992).

Nationwide, researchers, practitioners, and policymakers are increasingly focusing on a growing tragedy—large numbers of youth with mental health problems becoming involved in the juvenile justice system. A recent study by the National Center for Mental Health and Juvenile Justice
found approximately 70% of the youth in residential juvenile justice settings meet criteria for at least one mental health disorder(Shufelt &Cocozza, 2006).

[Arkansas Granny]

88. Yes, I do, and that's why I've hidden 10 threads on the subject today.

It's a stupid argument.

[myrna minx]

89. I agree. n/t

[NanceGreggs]

90. Back to kick this ...

... for the a.m. crowd!

:kick: