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Can we have some perspective on the whole "religion" issue?

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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:08 PM
Original message
Can we have some perspective on the whole "religion" issue?
I'm looking around and seeing a lot of trash talking. Clinton supporters attack Obama for his pastor's blowups, Obama supporters counter about Clinton's Senate prayer club including Santorum and Brownback, and on, and on. And there are some people here who just rabidly hate any mention of religion by a politician.

People: you can't throw a rock in American politics or culture without hitting a somebody who has strange and sometimes completely irrational religious views. The fact that one candidate or another can be associated with somebody whose views you don't agree with means very little. If they agreed with that person, that would mean something, but chances are that they don't. You can accuse someone of "secretly" agreeing all you want, but the reality is that a candidate can only be judged on what they actually do and believe. You can't tar them for their associations with people you consider quacks, whether they're due to politics or personal acquaintence.

I know some people who are wonderfully nice folks personally, but believe some of the most bizarre crap you'd ever imagine. That doesn't mean I'll refuse to associate with them, only that I try to forgive them their foibles and not get into arguments over religion.

Nor is it impossible to find common ground and issues, even moral or religious issues, with people who you radically oppose on other topics. Someone who you virulently disagree with on issues like abortion or homosexuality might have an equal fervor for campaigning against poverty, or supporting civil liberties.

In short, it is radically unfair to characterize a candidate based solely on who they associate with instead of what they actually embrace. And while it there are some people whose wrongness is so pervasive as to make their isolation an attractive idea, it's often more productive in the long term to engage them and, even if they're unsalvageable, offer an alternative to those who might otherwise be swayed to that sort of belief, in the absence of an opposing voice.

Going further, there's a certain contingent here that loudly and angrily disapproves any time any politician talks about religion. To be clear, I understand entirely where you're coming from. Being both a big fan of Thomas Jefferson and a semi-Quaker, I firmly believe in the privacy of religion, and that it does not belong on the public stage.

But at the same time, I'm a realist, and I know that religion isn't going to leave politics entirely, even if it should. Knowing that a candidate has beliefs is as important to some people as getting out of Iraq is to us, and not all of those people are the nutcases or fundamentalists that some people here would make them out to be. Until an athieist has a fair chance of being elected President, we purists are going to have to tolerate the fact that we are a nation where there are many religious people who desire some similar belief out of their leaders.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. No, as long as we are a nation where there are many religious people who desire some similar belief
out of their leaders, an atheist has no fair chance of being elected president.

As you said,"you can't throw a rock in American politics or culture without hitting a somebody who has strange and sometimes completely irrational religious views."

I, for one, refuse to tolerate that crap. They make my life difficult and sometimes dangerous.
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. And violate the concept for separation of church and state....
as in the Constitution. Our founders thought it important enough to mention in the Constitution. They did not approve public funding or tax exemption for religious organizations. Tax exemption was for the churches to help the poor instead the clergy of some organizations get rich (as is Rev. Wright with his 10,000 sq. ft. house).

Many RWers want democracy replaced with theocracy. Like that helped Ireland or Iran...etc.

Right now all the candidates for public office are kissing up the big churches and giving them Faith Based dollar support. They are pretty generous with my tax dollars. Much of which can not be accounted for nor approved by Congress. I call it "religious cronyism" especially since not all religious groups see a penny of Faith Based funding.

Bush has given billions out over the years to his favorites violating the Constitution (Congress controls the "purse"). Another reason to impeach Bush Congress.

Many clergy are getting very wealthy on their tax exempt status and this new "religious cash cow". They want to pick candidates for public office and even run one of their own. More than ever we see it today in 2008 election candidates.

Money corrupts religion and government so we must watch them.
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. I agree.
Let him who is not guilty cast the first stone. They are very judgemental and extreme in their goals. I will kill to give you freedom and my religion.
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trixie Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. I said tone down any religion a year ago
The only reason Dems are even discussing their religion is to mimic GOP. I said we shouldn't do it and by golly I was right. Religion has no business in politics and government and we should have kept it private to each candidate. We got burned by a stupid move.
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rwheeler31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. If God were running I would not vote for him. You religious nuts
creep me out.
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. God is not a politician but a religious leader.
http://www.holybible.or.kr/BIBLE_cgb/cgi/bibleftxt.php?VR=2&CI=10508&CV=99&FR=H See post #17. Right from the Bible.

Seems God doesn't want to be a Ceasar either.

Any politician using their god for their campaign and to make themselves credible is not worthy of public office or god's grace.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Sigh.
Thanks for not actually reading anything I said.
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I did read it but added to it.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hillary's Power Cult has a GOAL. They are actively seeking Fascism/Theocracy. Don't you get it?
Edited on Mon Mar-31-08 10:29 PM by cryingshame
it's not just a group of like minded individuals getting together and talking.

These people have an agenda for the USA Government and it's not moving towards Democracy.
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. They use anything for power and wealth.
Religion is just another "tool" to their goal. It also controls the masses.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. Jefferson knew it was freedom "of religion" - not freedom FROM religion - but DU folks get confused
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. It is implied that you can choose how/who to worship or not
worship. That is freedom not tyranny.
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