I think Obama/Hagel would be unbeatable

[Superman Returns]

I know this ticket will get a lot of groans, understandably so. Hagel is for the most part a conservative. But I think the reality is that despite the trend showing it to be a Democratic year, and despite the polls that show Obama is competitive with McCain, ultimately a lot of folks are going to get in the private voting booth and ask themselves, "do I really trust Obama with our security?" It may be due to lack of "experience," and lets face it, for many subtle racism. We've made progress, but not that much. But overall a lot of older folks may want to play it safe with a "moderate" war hero rather than chance it. Many do not connect him to Bush because the media, including Democrats have been building him up since SC in 2000, often times citing his stances on issues to contrast them with conservative Republicans.

Yes, Obama is right on the real issues of national security. That is why it would very strategic to seriously consider Hagel. If you just watched the Daily Show, you know that Hagel totally blasted the Bush administration on Iraq and even apologized for the Senate's lack of oversight in the beginning. When he says those things it has a lot more weight behind it because he isn't just a liberal or anti-war guy. If some kind of deal could be arranged between Obama and Hagel, in which Hagel would be his "Iraq guy" and would defer to Obama on domestic issues, I really do think the ticket would win overwhelmingly. Not only would Hagel neutralize McCain with his "victory, honor" BS on Iraq and tell the real truth, but it would really show that Obama means it when he says he wants to bring Democrats and Republicans together. I also think there should be an arrangement that Hagel would pick a Democratic VP approved before hand by Obama in case something should happen to him. Thoughts? Probably won't happen, but it makes more sense than the Obama/Bloomberg and Gore/Obama nonsense the media is going on about.

[goldcanyonaz]

1. NO!

[Hawkeye-X]

2. I reject all conservatives on Democratic tickets.

So sorry, you lost me at Obama/Hagel.

I'm betting on Obama/Richardson. Unbeatable, and will garner everyone from A-Z.

[woolldog]

22. I like Richardson, but...

I don't see any states that he will help Obama win, that Obama couldn't win without him as the VP.

Unless you think that somehow Richardson could turn Texas blue? Do you think he could??

[Hawkeye-X]

29. Richardson alone can help pull the Latino support - Texas included

as well as NM and the Mountain West.

[woolldog]

32. Yeah I know

but I want to know what states he will win, that Obama couldn't otherwise win.

I mean, let's say Obama were trying to choose between Rendell and Richardson. Rendell brings PA with him. What state does Richardson bring?

[Hippo_Tron]

49. Helps in Colorado, Nevada, Florida, and New Jersey

Vice Presidential candidates don't usually bring states with them just by their sheer presence on the ticket.

[leftynyc]

86. I agree

Richardson was my fist choice and I would love to see him on the dem ticket. I agree it's the best ticket we could present.

[scheming daemons]

3. As a Democrat, I don't like it.... but it WOULD be unbeatable in the GE....

...

[Warren DeMontague]

8. Bullshit. Stick an anti-choice ginkus like Hagel on the ticket, and millions of Dems will WALK.

Including this one.

The idea that we need a Republican to "save" us is bullshit. The Majority of Americans agree with OUR party and OUR policies.

[goldcanyonaz]

17. DAMN RIGHT!

:woohoo:

[Warren DeMontague]

20. See, we DO agree on something.

:thumbsup:

[readmoreoften]

70. I agree with you too.

It's refreshing to hear someone say that they'd walk if Obama took a right turn. I wish there were more folks like you!

We don't need a Republican to save us. Exactly.

[BuyingThyme]

21. Hey, cool avatar.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. I could say the same to you.

Sadly, I couldn't make the show for Obama at the Warfield. Sigh.

Thank Goddess for bittorrent.

[scheming daemons]

26. I agree with you.... I wouldn't like it.... but that ticket WOULD win in a landslide....

...the problem is... would we WANT it to?


I want TWO Democrats on the ticket... or the "win" would by pyrrhic.


I'm happy with Obama/ANY-DEM-NOT-NAMED-HILLARY

[Warren DeMontague]

36. Actually, I think you're wrong on that. In this case, 1+1 does not = 2.

You don't add a conservative, anti-choice Republican and magically add those people to your numbers at no cost. You might add a few- a very few- Republicans with Hagel, but you would LOSE large numbers of Democrats (like myself) for which issues like stem cell research, reproductive rights, keeping contraception legal, etc. are deal-breakers.

And you would lose a lot of the enthusiasm Obama has generated with "independents"- now, that's a tricky word. Technically, it just means anyone not aligned, but the temptation is to assume that independents must lie somewhere between the two major parties on a simple left-right axis. This is not the case. I suspect most independents are NOT conservative anti-choice "values voters" who are just tired of the GOP over Iraq.. rather, they are young people, socially libertarian urban adults, people who feel that neither party speaks particularly well to them.

The appeal with Obama is that maybe he will start to reach past where our party has traditionally been willing to go, and think FORWARD for new solutions to our problems. Sticking a retrograde knuckle-dragger like Hagel on the ticket is exactly the WRONG thing to do.

So I disagree about the "landslide" part. I think that ticket would be a disaster, from an electoral as well as a moral and intellectual perspective.

Personally, I'd like to see Obama/Feingold or Obama/Boxer, but I suspect we'll probably see Obama/Richardson.

[ekwhite]

67. Actually, I think Obama/Sebelius or Obama/Napolitano would be better

I like Barbara Boxer, but she is out because her replacement in the Senate would be appointed by a Republican governor. Feingold is one of my heroes, but he is too important in the Senate to lose. Janet Napolitano or Kathleen Sebelius would help win back some of the "it's our turn" voters. Of course, the downside is that this may be too much change for some voters to take. What is your take on this?

[Warren DeMontague]

74. I remain unconvinced about Sebelius. I thought her SOTU response was lackluster.

But you're right that we don't want Arnold picking Barbara Boxer's replacement.

I honestly don't know enough about Napolitano to say one way or the other, but I do think it makes sense to tap someone with executive experience -also to prevent losing another vote in the Senate- and from that part of the country. Same logic as applies with Richardson.

[readmoreoften]

71. Obama/Feingold or Obama/Boxer would put me on the team. /nt

[JerseygirlCT]

61. Well said!

Do we believe in our ideals? If we do, then we don't need a Hagel, or any other Republican, to make our ticket.

[Bonobo]

4. No! No! No! And Fucking NO!

[A-Schwarzenegger]

5. What about Obama/Superman.

Is Superman a Republican?

[ekwhite]

69. Superman can't run - he was born on Krypton

Same with Wonder Woman - she was born in ?Greece? How about Green Lantern or Batman?

[MadBadger]

6. Would be unbeatable, but I still say no

However, maybe Hagel could serve as some kind of foreign policy advisor in an Obama adminisration.

[Art_from_Ark]

7. Let me be the first to groan

If Obama were to win with a Republican as his running mate, he could very likely end up like Jim Guy Tucker, who was governor of Arkansas when Mike Huckabee was lieutenant governor. Tucker was pushed out by Ken Starr's witch hunt, Huckabee was let in, and Huckabee stayed around for 10 years.

[Ashy Larry]

9. Not VP. Maybe Secretary of Defense.

[malik flavors]

10. They certainly couldn't call him too liberal.

[Leopolds Ghost]

11. I like it. Maybe I'm not partisan enough, but

Both Obama and Hagel are to the right of me anyway.

The only problem that may prevent this is -- and I hate to say it -- life insurance.

If we had an incredibly popular old Scotch-Irish white guy who was anti-war and a DEMOCRAT,
I think it would ensure Obama' safety to be quite honest. I think the power behind the
scenes would be all too happy to elevate the president of ES&S to the highest office in
the land and take credit for Obama's anti-war position after the water is under the dam.

[goldcanyonaz]

13. You would then have a anti choice VP running for office after the term, if they won.

There's the problem.

[Superman Returns]

I figured the responses

but I think there are more McCain Democrats out there than Obamacans. I truly am worried that a lot of working class populist type Dems will go McCain because they respect him and feel he's "not so bad." I also think push comes to shove most GOP will go McCain because the Limbaugh and Hannity types wil make sure Obama comes out of the election looking like Malcolm X. That's why I feel Hagel could really give Obama the trust needed for many still skeptical. Perhaps it's because of my personal run-ins lately where a lot of "regular folks" are a bit racist. I don't trust the polls.

[Double T]

12. Chuck Hagel is far to SMART to partner up with obama. Actually........

Chuck Hagel would make a DAMN GOOD President.

[GarbagemanLB]

37. There is irony in your post, and yet I doubt you will be able to find it...

[cali]

47. Hagel would be a disaster

Fuck him. He's a disgustingly conservative puke, and he's neck deep in voter fraud. And this is a dem board. Keep sentiments like that one to yourself.

[Double T]

50. Censorship is a idea supported by rethugs. I guess OPEN and FRANK conversation and debate...........

have NOW gone down the toilet TOO! i can't wait for this GD election to be done.

[Unsane]

76. What about Hagel's voting record indicates he would make a "damn good" president?

[quakerboy]

14. NO. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

15. Actually, Obama/Bloomberg makes more sense because Bloomberg is like most independents.

Most independents are socially libertarian and fiscally conservative. They are receptive to ideas like ending the drug war and legalizing marijuana. They don't give a fuck about gays getting married, they don't want to outlaw abortion or birth control, they support the Separation of Church and State, they don't see why lifesaving research should be stopped because fundies think single cells have rights, etc.

The in play "independents" are NOT these overrated values voters- they are people who want government OUT of private citizens' bedrooms and bloodstreams. This is why Terri Schiavo bit the GOP on the ass- remember that?

The people who want to throw gays and women who use birth control in prison aren't "independents", they're REPUBLICANS. They're the 10% or so who still support that goober in the White House.

And they are NOT in play, no matter who we put on the ticket.

[MadBadger]

23. And this is the reason I was surprised that Bloomberg introduced Obama for an Economic Speech

[Tatiana]

16. People have lost their natural minds. We are the DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

We run DEMOCRATS on the DEMOCRATIC ticket.

End of story.

[elocs]

18. I would venture to say that most Americans have never heard of Hagel

and do not care. He bring nothing to the ticket that would in any way help Obama. Nice try, but no cigar. You are right--it will never happen.

[davidinalameda]

30. but he would wipe the floor with whatever idiot McCain picks for his VP

[WhiteTara]

19. eww...NO

[still_one]

25. Have you ever looked at the voting record of Hagel? Just because of the one issue

the Iraq war many ignore the other issues which have even more dire consequences, the Supreme Court being the first one that comes to mind

[movonne]

35. About the same as Ron Paul...

[still_one]

51. Ron Paul is even worse, he is a racist, I can't say that about Hagel /nt

[Tribetime]

27. from what I've seen of Hagel

he seems to be the only republican that speaks the truth on the war and I respect him for that. Seeing him on Olbermann tonight and CNN I get the feeling somethings up. I know he can't be to popular with the republicans now the way he blasted Bush and McCain over the war. Like someone metioned I think he may work Obama but not as VP.

[murielm99]

28. Hagel?

The same Hagel who became the first republican senator from Nebraska in 24 years, winning all demographics in his state, including African Americans who had never voted for a republican before? Hagel, whose voting machine company counted 80% of the votes? Hagel, who won a stunning upset? Hagel, who tried to deny that he was associated with a voting machine company?

Great idea. And it is not even officially April Fool's Day yet.

[dailykoff]

31. Wouldn't hurt to run it up the flagpole so to speak

bring him in, take photos, shake hands. Sure.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Hagel is anti-choice. Hagel is against stem cell research. Hagel supports Constitutional Amendments

banning Flag Burning and Gay Marriage.

It "wouldn't hurt" to put a reactionary GOP anti-choice Theocrat on our ticket? Yes it would.

Feh. Here's a flagpole to run it up.

[dailykoff]

39. Better Hagel than 911 profiteer Bloombag.

I mean come on. Anyway you missed my meaning, I didn't say put him on the ticket.

[Warren DeMontague]

41. Nope. I'd rather have someone who supports a woman's right to choose

I'd rather have someone who supports equal rights for our GLBT citizens, I'd rather have someone who understands that the drug war is a failure and we need to legalize and TAX marijuana sooner rather than later.

So no, I don't agree with you that Hagel is "better" than Bloomberg, on anything. Is Bloomberg pro-Iraq War?

But neither of them will be, or should be, on the ticket. We have many fine Democrats to choose from. My top choice is Russ Feingold or maybe Chris Dodd, but I suspect it'll be Richardson.

[dailykoff]

43. Hell yes, Bloombag is pro war! Do you know anything about him?

For one thing the guy has a bazillion dollars invested in a gigantic midtown highrise on Lexington that he started building the minute 911 conveniently wiped out 10,000,000 s.f. of cheap downtown commercial real estate.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bloombag Tower, a.k.a. One Beacon Court:



One Beacon Court (also called the Bloomberg Tower), is a skyscraper on the East Side of Midtown Manhattan, New York City. It houses the headquarters of Bloomberg L.P. in the lower floors and luxury condominiums in the higher floors. It is located at 731 Lexington Avenue between East 58th and 59th streets. The mid-block public space at the base of the building is called Beacon Court. The building stands at 54 stories tall, reaching 806 feet (246 meters). Construction started in 2001 and was completed in 2005. It is currently the 14th tallest building in New York and the 42nd tallest in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloomberg_Tower

[Warren DeMontague]

44. It would seem you are correct, he supported the Iraq War, he supports the patriot act.

Thanks for the heads up.

[dailykoff]

46. Bigtime.

He had freakin' storm troopers in the NYC subway at one point. Cut from the same cloth as Rudy.

[Forkboy]

33. This reminds of the people who thought McCain would be good for Kerry.

[readmoreoften]

72. And yet they hate McCain now? How does that work? /nt

[Superman Returns]

34. if not VP

I hope he asks him to be Sec. of Defense ahead of the election, and goes on all the morning talk shows making the case for withdrawal.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. Keep him the fuck away from FDA and HHS. We've had enough anti-choice nuts messing with them. nt

[JerseygirlCT]

62. Good grief.

Honestly. Hagel belongs where he is: about to retire into obscurity.

So he's right on the war. Do you know how many other people are, too? People who aren't virulently anti-choice, and far right on just about any other issue.

[Sandaasu]

40. Hagel would turn off too much of the base.

He's good on the war, but simply too conservative otherwise. There's better choices if we're going to have a "unity" ticket, such as Olympia Snowe.

[anonymous171]

45. Why don't we just nominate LIEberman. He would be unbeatable.

After all, how do repugs attack other repugs? He's probably more hawkish than McCain anyways.

[JerseygirlCT]

65. LOL, unfortunately for Lieberman, that's not even so!

He's eminently beatable... And knows his career is over. He's just making time now.

[RiverStone]

48. Other than his anti-war stance, Hagel is just another rightie wacko...

Ever read his voting record?

Check this out and tell me if you still think Chuck is a good fit for the Dem ticket....

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Chuck_Hagel.htm

[JerseygirlCT]

64. Yes.

It's well worth the read.

[baldguy]

52. Are you insane?

Might as well pick Paul Wolfowitz.

[BeyondGeography]

53. Hagael for SecDef, some other middle-of-the-road white guy for VP

[ElsewheresDaughter]

81. if Obama gets the nom & puts any Repukes in any of his cabinet...I will NOT vote for him

that is where I draw the line

[Bake]

54. Not just no but HELL NO!

The ONLY thing Hagel has done that is remotely acceptable to any true Democrat is oppose Bush on his war. If Obama even THINKS about running with a Puke, this true Democrat will stay home or write in Al Gore (which, on second thought, I may do anyway).

We've had eight years of Pukes running everything. It's time (hell, it's way past time) to clean house and get rid of them. I don't want them in the cabinet, I don't want them in the agencies, I don't want them anywhere.

Bake

[onenote]

55. Not. Going. To. Happen.

There will not be a "bi partisan" ticket. Too many Democrats have worked too long to see a repub end up on our ticket.

[opihimoimoi]

56. I will take a lb of whatever ya smokin.....It ain't gonna happen.

[DefenseLawyer]

57. Only if Hagel gets to bring his own voting machines. n/t

[Marie26]

58. Ugh, no thanks

If he did that I'd lose all respect for him. Hagel is totally pro-life, conservative, pro-Bush in every area other than the war. We don't elect Democrats in order to put Republicans in positions of power.

[MissMarple]

59. Olbermann asked Hagel about this last night. Hagel said no...

but he had just nodded his head up and down when listening to the question. He said he mentioned in his book something about a split ticket might be needed to bring the country together, or if not that then a mixed Cabinet. He said (doh) that we are undergoing a profound shift in our political culture.

Far more likely,however, might be a McCain/Leiberman ticket. A thought thrown out in a Newsweek article suggested McCain, with his volatile temper and occasional irrational knee jerk reactions, may need old Joe around to help with the odd 3 A.M. phone call, if he was to become president, that is. Tragic and funny at the same time. Would they fight over the hair rollers and the the bunny slippers?

[Warren DeMontague]

75. "Far more likely,however, might be a McCain/Leiberman ticket."... enough with the ridiculous

Political Fantasy Football! Jesus!

First off, there is NO WAY IN HELL that Obama would put an anti-choice Republican, like Chuck Hagel, on the ticket. Nor should he. Obama is certainly not an idiot, and only a complete fucking idiot would pull a move like that.

And as much as Lieberman is technically a Republican, Lieberman is still Pro-Choice. Lieberman won't be allowed anywhere near the GOP ticket for that reason, same with Condi or Colin Powell. Remember how Rudy was supposed to be- according to self-styled "political experts"- the front runner? Gee, whiz- what happened there?

[MissMarple]

82. Most of us would be shocked if Obama went with someone like Hagel.

I think we all get that. Olbermann may have been putting a rumor to rest...or just stirring up some interest. Who knows? But, Leiberman and McCain, that is far more likely. Will it happen...I don't know, but strange things have happened in politics. And these are very strange times, indeed. Someone like Joe may be acceptable to McCain. If a cross ticket is to happen, I think it more likely will be on the GOP side. They are quite desperate, right now.

[Warren DeMontague]

84. "Strange things have happened", yes. But you disregard the degree to which the flat-Earth fundies

run the Republican Party.

Let me put it this way- the day the GOP puts anyone pro-choice; that is, anyone who is pro choice and has not RENOUNCED their pro-choice-ness (a la Mitt Romney) on the Presidential/VP ticket, I will eat my hat.

I don't even have a hat, but I'll go out, buy one, and eat it.

[MissMarple]

87. Dr. Dobson may have put some followers in a tizzy. He says he WILL vote in November.

Oh, the suspense. :eyes:

He previously said he would never vote for McCain. He must have inquiring fundy minds sitting on the edges of their seats, chewing their nails to shreds. Robertson backed Guliani, but I think Dobson is too stiff necked to change his public stance against MeCain....unless he has a really good reason. The corporate interests might go for Leiberman, they run the show far more than the fundies do even giving that the fundies bring in the votes. The fundies keep doing that with so little to show for it, perhaps it is all in the fund raising. If they win all their heartfelt issues...the money stream might dry up. How many ways can we spell "conflict of interests"? But, if they should Leiberman, things will have come to a very strange pass, indeed. I certainly agree with you there.

Hat eating is not necessary. Even though I think it more likely for McCain to run with Leiberman than Obama to go with Hagel (Hillary I'm not as sure about), I would still experience a jaw dropping moment. Now, I didn't say I think Hillary would go with Hagel, It's just that my cynicism about her has increased exponentially in the past few months. Desperate people often resort to desperate measures.

[JerseygirlCT]

60. This is for April Fool's right?

Because you cannot possibly be serious.

And just BTW, Hagel is not "for the most part" a conservative. He's about as conservative as you get. The ONLY position on which he agrees with Democrats is the war. On every other important issue, he's far, far, far to the right.

[Raffi Ella]

63. HAGEL!!!!!!!!!!!?

fucking hell. Am I still at D.U.!????

[kentuck]

66. Perhaps a place in the Cabinet?

Secretary of Defense or Secretary of the Army? Obama will need to show he is willing to unite the partisan divide.

[mmonk]

68. Probably would be.

There is a problem concerning the Supreme Court nominations though.

[Moochy]

73. There's room in cabinet for republicans

Dinos and Republicans should not be in the direct line of succession. LBJ and GHB come to mind.

[mmonk]

77. I will add that a McCain/Lieberman ticket could put pressure

on such a scenario.

[Alter Ego]

78. No, no no.

Absolutely, unequivocally no.

[DavidDvorkin]

79. You misspelled "unbearable"

[ElsewheresDaughter]

80. if Obama picks a Repuke veep...that would be the proverbial straw on the camels back

[depakid]

83. Ain't that the truth...

There's a reason Congress' ratings are in the toilet....

[Warren DeMontague]

85. Look, I support Obama enthusiastically, and I think Hillary is the stealth right-winger in this

Primary...

but let me say unequivocally that if Obama puts a Republican, or anyone anti-choice, on the ticket, it will be a dealbreaker with me and I will walk.

Same goes for Hillary, of course.

[RainDog]

88. I would find it nearly impossible to vote for a republican on the democratic ticket

I did that once with Lie-berman and, beyond regretting that the Gore crew put him on the ticket (for florida and the northeast, no doubt), I regret that my vote gave him an ounce of credibility.

and not only that... I AM SICK OF REPUBLICAN FUCK UPS -- ESPECIALLY ON THE ECONOMY.

sorry for yelling, but, see... it's just that important to me.

If Hagel has a problem with the Republicans, he should go fix his own goddamn party instead of working to make the democratic one republican lite.

honestly. I support Obama.... but that would be too much.

How do you think ppl can just forget these last 8 years of republican fucktards? What makes Hagel a good choice, other than his Iraq war issues?

My head really wants to explode now at the thought of this. If McCain needs to be neutralized, then Obama should go with Gen. Clark.

NO MORE REPUBLICANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!