New poll numbers show Clinton supporters defecting from Obama in big way

[Tropics_Dude83]

Why are Clinton supporters acting like children who are going to pick up their ball and go home if they lose the game or, in this case, the nomination? Why are Clinton supporters not acting like true loyal democrats? 40 percent of so called democrats are going to vote for Mccain??????

This is disgusting. New Rasmussen numbers:
Tensions clearly remain in the contest. If Obama is nominated, just 56% of Clinton supporters say they are likely to vote for him against John McCain. Forty percent (40%) of Clinton voters in Pennsylvania say they are not likely to vote for Obama.

On the other hand, if Clinton is nominated, just 67% of Obama supporters say they are likely to vote for her against McCain. Twenty-nine percent (29%) are not.

Just 21% of Pennsylvania’s Primary Voters say that Clinton should drop out of the race while 18% would like Obama to leave. Those figures are similar to results from a recent national survey. Fifty-one percent (51%) in Pennsylvania say it’s very likely the contest will not be resolved until the convention in Denver. That figure includes 61% of Clinton voters and 38% of those who support Obama. Overall, another 33% say a convention decision is Somewhat Likely.

Forty-seven percent (47%) say they have followed news stories Very Closely about Clinton’s Bosnia misstatements. Another 27% have followed those stories Somewhat Closely. Overall, 19% consider that issue to be Very Important in their voting decision. That figure includes 6% of Clinton supporters and 36% of Obama voters. Sixty-eight percent (68%) of Pennsylvania voters say that most politicians lie or embellish the truth when discussing their own accomplishments. Only 12% disagree.

Clinton voters, by a 64% to 26% margin, believe that American society is generally fair and decent. Obama voters are evenly divided—45% hold that optimistic view while another 45% say society is generally unfair and discriminatory.

[MercutioATC]

1. First of all, I wouldn't believe the "vote for McCain" numbers.

It's a heated contest, and the candidates' supporters are divided. Once we have a GE candidate, things will pull together, not all the way, but nothing like the poll numbers we're seeing.

Personally, I think it's a philosophical divide...old politics vs new politics. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Demeter]

2. They Will Get Over It

There is no alternative. Very few people are that self-destructive, when the time to act arrives.

(Hillary may be one exception to that general innate sense of best self interest, but her followers won't necessarily follow her that far.)

I'm feeling much more confident about Obama than I ever felt about Gore or Kerry.

[anamandujano]

73. Your post reflects the attitude that Obama has toward Hillary and

it is just one of the reasons he is bleeding GE voters as we speak.

His arrogance will be his downfall.

[NDambi]

74. oh please and Hildabeast and the Big Old tired dog are already her downfall

GOT HOPE?

[anamandujano]

76. Maybe you should read the OP again.

[NDambi]

80. Actually I did but your sig photo irritated me..

[anamandujano]

82. I made it in reaction to weeks and weeks of nasty photoshops of Hillary.

So, if it irritates, mission accomplished.

[NDambi]

83. Hey have at and have fun....my candidate is stomping Hilda..irritation was temp.

got hope?

[QC]

138. O GOODY! CARTOONS!!

[avrdream]

94. My thoughts exactly.

Either way, I am writing in Hillary Clinton as my Presidential choice in the General.

I won't vote for McCain but I won't vote for Obama either. He lost me at McClurkin. Nothing since then has changed my mind.

[UALRBSofL]

111. Well, I'm not gonna do that

I'm voting for Gravel, at least he has MY BEST INTEREST. BTW, after a nominee is picked can I still post in favor of Gravel here on DU or not? Anybody know? He was a democrat up until a week or so ago.

[Shae]

132. If I understand the rules...

I don't think you are supposed to advocate for him now.
He has joined the Libertarian party and is no longer a Democrat.
I believe Skinner has removed his Icons.

[samsingh]

113. do you want a continuation of bush policies through mccain?

the extended iraq war and attacks on iran will be the result.

how many people will have to die because people were irritated by Obama?

[avrdream]

166. Tired old argument.

Even Kerry voted for that.

Pssssst, I'll let you in on a secret: Barry and Hillary are TIED!!!!

[samsingh]

185. if Hillary won the nomination

i would tell Obama supporters to get behind her so that we do not get a continuation of shrub.

if Obama won the nomination, same argument.

mccain is tainted and corrupted.

[rodeodance]

187. You look foolish when you say such things. Please educate yourself about Hillarys policies.

[MagickMuffin]

168. Well your gays rights will work real well for you when McCaineyBush gets to select

new Supreme Court nominees.

Who knows what will be in store for you. I fear for your rights. But hey good luck anyway.

Hopefully Obama will win without your support.

[PoliticalAmazon]

100. Absolutely a lie. Obama has consistently praised Clinton and her supporters! ...

...If you have to be dishonest to stand up for your candidate, perhaps you are supporting the wrong candidate.

[Zhade]

147. Well, they do still support a proven liar.

I'm not thinking honesty is their biggest concern right now.

[roguevalley]

118. delete. came too far down the page. :)

[roguevalley]

119. crystal ball time. predicting the GE. must be wonderful to be so

omnipotent.

[rodeodance]

102. you best think again. you seem over confident. Like BO--said the same.

[Life Long Dem]

109. Yep, Hillary supporters need to get over they lost.

[samsingh]

114. we are one party folks - let's get a Democrat in office

Obama and Clinton are much better than anything the repug fanatics have so why don't we just do what democracy advocates - hold the contest and back the winner.

[Zhade]

149. Really? A proven liar like clinton is better than repugs? How, exactly?

NT!

[bhikkhu]

164. If you need an explanation, perhaps you should be posting elsewhere.

though everyone is entitled to a bad evening...

[samsingh]

186. you're kidding right?

bush's lies have destroyed the country and resulted in over 500,000 deaths.

Clinton got a blowjob.

[DemBones DemBones]

174. No, we will not "get over it." We will vote Green or write in Clinton if BO is the nominee.

I have been a loyal Democrat all my life but this liar who lacks experience and
has shamelessly attacked Democratic leaders will not get my vote or that of anyone in my family. That's four Dems and there are many more who feel as we do.

BO has alienated too many key voting blocs because he's an arrogant liar, complete with smirk.

[NJmaverick]

3. I think those numbers will change over time

Many Hillary supporters are very emotionally vested in her campaign. It's going to take time for them to get over the loss. In time, I think most of them will come to their senses and support the person best able to lead the Country.

[Tropics_Dude83]

7. But dude...I love Obama

But if he loses in an qualifiably fair way to Clinton, I would be devastated but would be more than happy to support HRC. I think the inaguration of a woman on January 20th would be amazing. I think Clinton is absolutely the wrong choice but even now, with all my fury over her tactics, I am a democrat true and true. I don't want to see John Mccain president. Ever.

This Clinton supporter mentality is highly distressing to me. I wonder is it racism? Is it sour grapes? Is it because Clinton has managed to get her supporters to hate Obama?

[NJmaverick]

25. My own mother is one of those that support Hillary or nobody

I have had many discussions about this with her. For her it's a totally emotional issue, logic and reason have no place in the discussion. She feels that Hillary is a once in a life time chance to have a woman president. She wants that in the worse way. She feels that would make up for decades of discrminiation and being treated as a second class citizen.

As a result she is very angry and bitter toward Obama. She blames him for ruining the chance for the first woman President. I am hoping in time she will come to her senses. She a strong Democrat that shares the values and has hated Bush with a passion. I think in time as the wounds heal and the fact that McCain would be the same as Bush (only older and crankier) she will come to realize that Obama is the best hope for the Country and will act accordingly.

[Labors of Hercules]

60. What if Obama picks a strong woman (not Hillary) VP?

:popcorn:

[NJmaverick]

62. Hard to say, I never asked her that

Who would you have in mind?

[Labors of Hercules]

77. Well, of the 7 female Governors, 3 have endorsed him:

That's Sebelius(KS), Napolitano(AZ) and Gregoire(WA).

Of the 3, Sebelius and Napolitano have almost 60% approval ratings in semi-red/red states.

Of the three I would probably choose Napolitano, because she could hand us McCain's home state (which would be SAWEEEEET!), and she just plain kicks ass.

[leftynyc]

65. And here I was thinking my mother was the only one

This lifelong democrat that would eat glass rather than vote pub is talking about skipping the race. We're all working on her (and by all I mean my whole family - not a republican in the bunch) and are hoping for the best.

And your mother's argument sounds just like an interview I read with Billie Jean King - she said it looks to women of her generation like just one more time where a younger, less qualified man is getting the nod over a woman. It's also a main component in my mother's feelings.

[NJmaverick]

85. I appreciate what you are going through

It's a tough argument, when it's your own family member. I hadn't heard the BJK comments, but I am sure my mother would agree with them.

[roguevalley]

120. remind these women of the draft. if mccain gets in, the draft comes

and there will be no canada option. :(

[Hoof Hearted]

152. That's what was said about Kerry. Didn't happen. And the motivation to vote against

McCain will not rise to any where near the levels that existed to vote against Bush. Deal with it. Obama can't win a general election unless he puts Hillary Clinton on the ticket, and even then with the 527's that will run against him, it'll be a long shot.

[leftynyc]

170. Oh, believe me, I have

I pull the grandmother card any chance I get!! The draft for the grandsons and choice for the granddaughters. I figure the supreme court is the concern that means the most and it's something they all understand.

[Zambero]

79. One could make the same argument about Obama as a black candidate

The fact that a white woman and a black man are near evenly matched is not surprising. Many Democrats would have liked an opportunity to vote for both, albeit in separate election years. The more important issue will be defeating McCain and putting this country back on the right track. This is an all-important consideration, and much bigger than any one candidate.

[PoliticalAmazon]

103. I understand, I won't vote for HRC or McCain. Each has to do what is right for them, not the herd.

[Ravy]

46. Some of it is fear of racism.

My own personal opinion of Obama is much lower because of that.

I don't like how he and his supporters turn everything into a racial issue. After seven years of being called unpatriotic for disagreeing with the president, I shudder at the thought of another term of being marginalized into a racist category for simply disagreeing.

I don't particularly favor Clinton, either.

But I would rather be called racist than have McCain as president, any day.

[anamandujano]

81. Being called racist is right up there with child molester. By going

this route Obama has shown his true repulsive character. Why would anyone think he's going to change after he takes office?

I would rather have McCain as president.

McCain has it in him to do an about face on his war stance and anything he does will be an improvement over Bush, whose only agenda was to rape the country and the world.

[Alexander]

106. You'd rather have McCain? Then enjoy your short stay here.

You are showing your true colors.

[anamandujano]

75. Think relentless trashing with Repuke talking points and outright lies.

That will give you a start in your meditation on what went wrong for Obama.

[stratomagi]

41. Yeah probably the most drastic change will come during the first

Presidential debate where these two are side by side and McCain will only be able to offer the fact that he was a POW when he is asked about healthcare, the economy, the environment, and iraq.

[DemBones DemBones]

173. Dream on, but be prepared for a rude awakening. eom

[kennetha]

4. Gives a lie to an early and oft-repeated Obama Meme

He used to say that he could win Clinton's votes and she couldn't win his in a general election. Looks like it's the other way around.

[still_one]

8. Most Democrats WILL vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is /nt

[kennetha]

11. Most isn't good enough

If the Reagan democrat types -- blue collar white catholics -- turn off to Obama in the Gen, his goose is cooked. 70% dem support won't be enough.

[Fovea]

20. But no Republicans will cross for HRC.

And she will energize the mouth breathing Repube base like no one else could, not even Obama.

Race and Gender are outward symptoms of a deeper truth. The days of white male America are over. As a white male, I welcome that. We need more real consensus, less manufactured panic.

[kennetha]

22. Hillary has less upside potential than Barack, but less downside as well

WIth Hillary, I see no possibility of a blow-out on either side. She is the medium-risk, medium yield candidate.

Barack could win in a blow-out or lose in a blow out. He is the high-risk, high yield candidate.

[DirtyJersey]

101. As we've seen time and time again...

the amount one wins by doesn't matter, only that they win. Therefore, I think Sen. Clinton is a stronger candidate. My candidate was Richardson, and now I'm leanning slightly towards Hillary, but I'll vote for either one in the end, as I think most Democrats will.

[kmsarvis]

23. DO YOU KNOW.......,....

HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL FEEL DISENFRANCHISED IF CLINTON IS HANDED THE NOMINATION BY THE
SUPERDELEGATES?

[kennetha]

24. The obama supporters on this board?

That's about all I count. That's just empty rhetoric. A delegate is a delegate. A vote is a vote.

[laugle]

131. Do you know how disenfranchised people

will feel if Obama doesn't agree to seat Florida/Michigan? Unless all 50 states vote, he would be seen as illegitimate and lose in the GE.

[DemBones DemBones]

176. Exactly. FL and MI delegates must be seated. The voters must not be

punished for what their state governments did.

[beltanefauve]

146. WHY ALL THE CAPS ??????

[still_one]

115. 99.9 % that is what I mean. If you think Hillary is so loved you better think again

[futureliveshere]

10. This actually depends a lot upon how the candidate influences their own supporters.

So it actually looks like Obama has been more successful in attracting GENUINE democratic support i.e. supporters who believe in the democratic philosophy while Clinton has polarized her supporters to only believe in HER rather than the party ideals.

But this is a result of the recent mud slinging, disappointments and role-reversals (front-runner to almost loser in case of HRC). These numbers will moderate as time goes by.

[democrattotheend]

21. Most of the genuine Democrats I have talked to support Obama

It's the people who might vote for McCain in the general who tend to support Clinton. But who knows if they voted for Kerry 4 years ago...I would bet that a number of the Clinton supporters I have met while canvassing/doing voter registration did not.

[Tropics_Dude83]

29. So so very true democrattotheend

Yes Clinton's main support comes from conservative Reagan democrats, Rush Limbaugh disruptors and corporate voters. I've supported the dems as long as I've been aware and I came down on the side of Obama after being for Gore and Kerry against Bradley and Edwards in the past.

It's clear who the real democrats are and who they support.

[Ravy]

49. I think more Democrats nationwide support Hillary, though.

Honestly. And I don't know why.

But Obama is just leading by 700k votes, and I feel he has beat her in independent voters by much, much, more than that, and with republican cross-overs (many of whom *will* stick with Obama in the GE, I think).

That just leaves the Democrats who seem to be making up most of the numbers Clinton is losing to Obama in Independent/Republicans.

[psychmommy]

58. i disagree.

why is she going to rush, greta and scaife to get her talking points out. obama has the liberals and
other left leaning dems, indies and repub's. i think you will see the shift in support. i think that folks eyes are opening. i think having dissed nancy p and leahy she is going to have a tough time if she doesn't get the presidency.

[Ravy]

71. Peanuts to the people the Obama camp has dissed, IMHO,

But if you disagree you are really saying Clinton is stronger in Independent and crossover vote than we have previously been led believe. You may be right.

[psychmommy]

123. not indies.

those corporate dems and repubs-sort of the same folks to whom lieberman is attractive.

[futureliveshere]

91. Another factor to be noted when we look at the popular vote is that BO came into his own after Super

Tuesday I with the 11 victories on a roll. The race started changing in nature just before Super Tuesday II and now many more democrats are disillusioned with Hillary than before.

I am betting that the popular vote numbers would have BO in an even bigger lead if we could redo the earlier primaries.

[Ravy]

92. I travel a lot, and I talk to a lot of people...

My sense is that you are probably right. Most people I have talked to are sticking, but, while I haven't counted, I think there were a *few* more who switched from Clinton to Obama than the other way around. Several in the early, early, states switched when Obama started playing the race card in SC, there seem to be some who express displeasure with Hillary not dropping out of the race that are switching the other way more recently.

Not many have switched that I have talked to.. maybe a dozen.

[leftynyc]

70. I think that's bullshit

I come from a family of die hard democrats - NEVER have ANY of them voted pub for president. Many of my friends are the same way and there is an almost 50/50 split in support between the two. They have their reasons - some are gay and are totally turned off by Sen Obama's association with that anti-gay moron, some are women who want a woman in the white house, some got completely turned off by Rev Wright - but ALL of them are democrats and have always been so. They wont vote McCain - they just wont vote.

[Ronnie]

90. "They wont vote McCain - they just won't vote."

Exactly what I'm seeing with Democrats I'm close to. As to the Republicans (brothers, nephews, nieces, sister-in-law...big family), all of them think McCain is great. All those stories I've read on here about 88-year-old life-long Republican parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, and neighbors voting for Obama better be true. We're going to need every one of them.

[leftynyc]

96. I have a few republican friends

and there are a fair amount where I work and when I ask them if they'll vote dem if it's Sen Obama, they laugh at me. And these are New York republicans who would be considered democrats in most other states. I'm sure some of the senator's supporters will think they are all racists but that simply is not true.

[laugle]

134. Actually, I don't think we know yet

the racist vote numbers, as BO didn't win many of the blue states or large states.......which makes him even more of a risk in the GE!

[leftynyc]

169. Big and industrial states worry me

New York will vote dem, I'm sure. But McCain is polling strong in both PA and NJ and we NEED both those states. I think before we start worrying about swing states, we really need to concentrate on those states that have been blue first. For the first time I remember, a republican that reads friendly to immigrants is running. That hurts us. Latinos can be very socially conservative.

[laugle]

184. I keep thinking about how

my state of CA went for Reagan, and McCain is painting himself a Reagan conservative. Geez.....we have fricking Arnold for govenor. This state can be very fickled........

One thing we have going for us is enthusiasm, thanks to eight years of that idiot in the WH, so we may win based on shear numbers. Nothing and no one should be taken for granted!

[laugle]

133. Or if HRC is seen as

being snubbed, they may write her name in..................

[leftynyc]

66. Actually, it's probably a large part of the

reason why they are saying they wont vote for him - they feel taken for granted. It was a stupid thing for him to say.

[anamandujano]

84. One, in a long line of stupid things he has said, all of which are

costing him at the ballot box.

[still_one]

5. I believe that whoever are nominee is, 99.9% of the Democrats will vote for that nominee

The inuendo that a larger percentage would vote for mccain if their nominee doesn't make it, doesn't make sense, especially if you look at mccain's record

[LulaMay]

107. Well, you're dead wrong, and don't want to face reality. A lot of women are very angry

at being treated like dirt in this election, watching the party and media treat Hillary with disgusting sexist bias, while racism isn't tolerated (rightly so...so why don't WE matter?) We are offended by the media, Obama fanatics and certain party leaders disrepectfully pressuring her to drop out, calling her names, being utterly condescending.


We are more than half the population, half the party. We have been the primary water carriers, precinct walkers, office workers and backbone of this party, and THIS is how we're treated?

A lot of men who've braved ridicule and stood by our side are pissed too.


Wake-up, and get your own damn coffee.

[still_one]

117. then THEY DESERVE MCCAIN, and I will be the first to turn my back on them

if they vote for mccain and his supreme court pisses down their back. They will deserve it for ultimate stupidity

[Hoof Hearted]

155. so you will be the first to turn your back on women, for their "ultimate stupidity"

good to know.

[Beacool]

161. We will be "punished"..................

:eyes:

[DemBones DemBones]

177. "It's a guy thing."

I love your sig line. I may steal it to save having to tell people that!

[laugle]

135. Great analysis..............and soooooo true............nt

[Hoof Hearted]

156. That should be our BATTLE CRY! Wake Up! And get your own damned coffee!

BRAVO!

[flor de jasmim]

6. Even HOLDING a poll like this is divisive:

It allows the pollsters to set the debate. It makes for a great RW talking point, it creates a diversion, a DISTRACTION (as Obama called discussions of certain topics) and does more to keep the wound open than to help us move ahead.

[PurityOfEssence]

27. The classic Obama supporter approach: ignore and avoid all potentially disconcerting information

I don't know if you're a supporter, but I keep seeing the same pattern: dismissal of any annoying pitfalls and grandiloquent fantasizing of how troubling incidents will actually help in the long run. To an alarming number of the faithful, Jeremiah Wright's antics are a boon, and that's just an example of the habit.

Polling is more than just useful, and to those of us who prefer to live in the reality-based world, such questions should be asked.

Appealing to decency to avoid rancorous topics is antithetical to healthy pluralism.

[Nickster]

47. Way to completely throw a ton of garbage onto a completely valid view point.

Most polls that we see in the media are utter crap, they are manipulated to drive discussion in a certain direction. Reality based folks understand that.

Jeremiah Wright? Please.

[anamandujano]

95. A sad but accurate description.

[thewiseguy]

9. Hillary is losing and her supporters are not happy

It is tough for them to get over the loss so the numbers are not surprising at all.

If Obama was in the same situation I can bet you the numbers would be the same or even worse.

Once the nominee is picked people will finally come around and unite.

[Tropics_Dude83]

13. Actually I disagree

I mean at least for me personally. If Clinton was crushing Obama, my attitude would be "oh well, I guess I better support her since I don't want Mccain." It wouldn't be "OMG, She's winning, I'll never vote for her now since my guy is losing."

This is pathetic.

[thewiseguy]

16. Well you are different and this poll is not saying 100% of Hillary supporters..

Trust me. Alot of Hillary fans are very much invested in this campaign. They feel very strongly about this issue. These polls are meaningless in my opinion.

The elemnt of anger is also there. Do you think most Hillary supporters are angry at Obama or McCain because she is losing?

[aquarius dawning]

122. Nope. John McCain is the next closest thing to a moderate next to Hillary

He appeals to the middle the same as she does. If she doesn't win, those moderate Democrats will identify with John McCain more so than Obama. You can win the primary appealing to the far left or the far right but you have to appeal to the middle to win he general election.

[Zhade]

150. Is THAT why they deny her proven lies, especially about Snipergate?

NT!

[Erin Elizabeth]

12. Meh. I said I wouldn't vote for Kerry.

But by the end of the thing, I had a Kerry sign in my yard and voted for him.

[democrattotheend]

57. Me too

I didn't have a yard sign because I lived in a college dorm, but I had a bumper sticker, I voted for him, and I traveled to Ohio to canvass the weekend before the election. It took me a while to let go of the Dean campaign and refocus, but I eventually did and I worked my ass off for Kerry. Too bad it didn't help :(

[bunnies]

14. The Clintons heart McCain.

And apparently, so do her supporters. Im not shocked.

[Fovea]

15. Dems for the status quo

support Hillary. And their anger at Obama is that he does not worship the golden calf.
But status quo America is falling, and the weight of its Iraq war, the cost of oil, and the fact that all we make in America are imaginary financial instruments based on debt.

This year will not be wine and roses for the status quo.

We have entered the long emergency.

[DJ13]

17. This election comes down to the people vs. the corporate interests

After almost 28 years (Reagan x2, BushI x1, B.Clinton x2, Bush II x2) of our government being controlled by corporate interests theres a slight majority of voters that want to end the influence and all the damage it has caused our economy.

Both Clinton and McCain represent a continuation of those polcies of corporate influence, and to many voters who have never voted before 1980 they find comfort in continuing those ruinous policies over the unknown that Obama represents.

The corporate owned MSM tries to push these frightened voters into believing theres safety in either of those corporate interest candidates, where Obama entails a risk (Bill's "roll of the dice" comments were tailored to reinforce that message).

This is where our party must end this divisive race between Clinton and Obama, as our probable nominee needs time to work on overcoming the fears of those voters who would rather take comfort in the known (continuing the corporate influence) instead of supporting a candidate that actually wants to work FOR the average american to roll back many of the excesses corporations have obtained that are hurting our country.

[barb162]

42. Check the number of Obama's corporate interests n/t

[Apollo11]

18. Here's my solution: a CLINTON OBAMA ticket

LET'S MAKE HISTORY IN 2008, 2012, 2016, 2020 ...

[JayFredMuggs]

28. It would make history in many many ways... because

The Democratic Party has NEVER EVER EVER chosen the runner-up to be the Prez and the front-runner to be the VP.

[DUyellow]

33. LOL

[kmsarvis]

31. OBAMA /CLINTON TICKET

SPONSORED BY AQUAFINA

[Apollo11]

36. "Barack - you can shove that bottle up your hope hole!"

Is how I predict that Hillary would respond to that particular job offer - if linked with that particular photo. ;-)

[democrattotheend]

59. Nah. The other way around makes more sense.

I am an Obama supporter, but I don't think an Obama/Clinton ticket makes any sense.

If she gets the nomination, she will pretty much have to put him on the ticket, since she will have fewer delegates and it would otherwise seem like the nomination was stolen from him. He also has a following, he's a great campaigner, and the fact that a lot of people genuinely like him even if they disagree with him makes him an asset to the ticket.

But if he manages to pull off an upset in PA or put it away with victories in Indiana and North Carolina, I don't think she's the best pick for VP. He needs someone with really solid experience credentials, either as a governor or in foreign policy (which is why I think Richardson is ideal). Fairly or not, a lot of people who might have considered voting for Obama wouldn't consider it if she were on the ticket.

[DUyellow]

32. Would Clinton want to be president in 2016?

If Obama would have her on the ticket in the first place. Or why would she want to be on a ticket with somebody who is not qualified to be president?

This ticket is not going to happen, and it shouldn't.

[Hoof Hearted]

157. Why WOULDN'T she want to be prez in 2016?

[laugle]

137. You may be

right. Unfortunately, it may be the only way to ensure a win.........

[Zhade]

151. Well, no. First off, she's not going to get the nom. Second, why would he join with her?

Makes no sense.

[MyNameGoesHere]

19. Because in a free America YOU do not control who people vote for.

So go pick up your ball and go home now ok? And MAYBE you should ask yourself why the "Great Uniter" fails to unite? Maybe some people have a bullshit detector built in?

[DemBones DemBones]

53. Exactly. And it is very telling that this guy who talks

unity and hope has fractured the party.

He has been the one who has accused the Clintons of being racist, which he heard from his racist preacher.

He was the one who threw his white grandma (a "typical white person") under the bus to try to distract people from the fact that he sat and listened to that racist preacher for twenty years, exposed his children to him.

He's like * but with less experience. He's got the smirky grin and the smug "better then you" attitude and he claims to be a uniter. :puke:

I will break with the party this year unless HRC is the nominee. I'll vote Green or for Nader.

[laugle]

139. I call it, his

DIVERSION speech......the speech was fine, but did little to clarify his time with that racist preacher, 20 years...............you can't defend the indefensible........so create a DIVERSION.......

[anamandujano]

87. Banco!

[Lucky 13]

26. Like a three year old, they are throwing a temper tantrum.

The best solution is to just ignore them let them tire themselves out. The end result is inevitable and they know it. They just can't accept it yet. Obama will get the nomination and they will cry and pout, but once they step back and take a little nappy, they'll have a different attitude.

As Bill Clinton once said, "In the primary you fall in love. In the general they fall in line." What can I say? The man's a prophet.

[paulk]

30. yup. demean people. that's the way to win their support

ps - your sig line says it all...

another anti Clinton troll pretending to support Obama

[Lucky 13]

34. wrong.

Sorry, not a troll. Former campaign manager for local democratic candidates. Donor and Volunteer for John Kerry. Donor for John Edwards. Former Hillary fan. Donor and Volunteer for Barack Obama. Supporter of whoever the nominee turns out to be.

Sorry you find it demeaning, but there are many similarities to the tantrums thrown on DU and tantrums thrown by 3 year olds. And all the tombstoning lately is evidence of such.

And my sig line... I'd like to take credit for that, but that line has been around since before this election. I've just adopted it recently due to Hillary's own actions.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

153. She's a liar. Deal with it.

NT!

[Hoof Hearted]

159. He's a sure loser AND a liar, Deal with it.

[Mags]

40. why do you BO folks think that his surrogates can come out

and say she should step down and support him or his supporters can trash, demean, call her fans racists, or anything else you want to and expect us to come crawling back and vote for him. Say all you want to about me supporting McCain, that I am a freeper . I don't care anymore. But BO is the one that says he can get her voted and she can't get his. He's dead wrong. I won't vote McCain, but I won't vote Obama either.

[readmoreoften]

35. Maybe it's because you've alienated them.

I don't know many people who have problems with Obama but I know a whole lot of people who want to be 'saved from his followers.'

[Bullet1987]

37. I agree, I think the number will go down...but 40% is shockingly high

I'm surprised by this whole crybaby attitude being displayed by a growing number of Clintons supporters though. I mean, she's down because she's run a pretty bad campaign since Super Tuesday...that's not Obama's fault...blame her campaign. You know something is wrong when Clinton's supporters go on FOX News and call it the most balanced.

[SoCalDem]

38. oooooh... we're scareddddd...

anyone stupid enough to vote for mccain was not much of a democrat in the beginning..

If they have their panties in a wad because their "girl" doesn't win or if they're afaid that the "scary black man" might win, they are pathetic beyond all reason..

Let the republicans HAVE 'em.. Republicans "inherited" the southern racists back in the 60's..they've gotta have somewhere to go, don't they?? Repubes lost a TON of members this year, so maybe these people can replace them :rofl:

[Oilwellian]

43. Indeed

I know many republicans who voted for Hillary in the Virginia primary but will switch to Obama if he's the nominee. They are VERY anti-republican right now. C'mon Hillary supporters...if republicans can do it, you can too!
:patriot:

[Beacool]

162. I would rather vote for a potted plant .

:shrug:

[kwenu]

39. Don't take these polls too seriously with regard to defections.

Supporters don't want to publicly admit that they would consider the other candidate while their candidate is still in the race. I suspect these numbers will dramatically change after SDs begin weighing in after the primaries and certainly disappear after the convention in August.

I think that we as a party will unite once this nomination battle ends. Until then, it's basically a lot of bullshitting.

[BenDavid]

44. well, lets look at why. As a Clinton supporter I'm having a hard

time warming up to Obama. Many of us really like Hillary and Bill Clinton and we want to go back to the days of peace and prosperity and real solutions to real problems and truly believe Hillary is best to do this in 2008. So when Obama surrogates called Bill Clinton a racist, we resented it. When Obama surrogates played the race card in South Carolina and with a willing whoremedia blamed Hillary we strongly resented it. When we hear Obama surrogates talking about the Clintons the way the Republicans talk about the Clintons, we really resent it. Many of us are very deeply offended and I'm trying to like Obama and it's just not happening.My reasons, honestly I believe obama to be so influenced by his pastor in matters of his anti white beliefs and Israel and his anti Jew statements that obama spoke out only because he was forced too and had too. I would warn Obama supporters that being anti-Clinton might result in a Republican president.

[Perry Logan]

45. Well said. The Obama people have only themselves to blame.

[JackORoses]

48. I blame Hillary and so can you.

She is holding her supporters hostage.
You are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

There is life after pantsuits.

[laugle]

140. As usual....a fair analysis --nt

[Zhade]

154. So, you don't resent the fact that clinton's a proven liar?

How does that make any sense?

[Beacool]

163. I totally agree.

Furthermore, I will not vote for a guy who I don't think should be president, even if the has the letter "D" after his name.

:shrug:

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

50. The big question....

How many of the Hillary supporters in Pennsylvania intend to vote for Hillary in the General Election? I suspect when you weed out the electoral trolls, you're probably looking at a similar number of defectors from both camps.

And those numbers will evaporate as the "heat of battle" fades into memory.

[dogday]

51. Where is the reference for this...

I take nothing at face value until I read it for myself with some kind of reference to back it up...

[Tropics_Dude83]

67. Rasmussen Reports

http:/www.rasmussenreports.com in their PA poll write up

[dogday]

68. thanks!

:hi:

[OzarkDem]

52. Little difference between Obama and McCain on issues

Clinton supporters tend to be policy wonks and look closely at a candidates plans for what they'll do if elected.

[illumn8d]

88. Intellectually Dishonest

If you are going to say that, you should add Clinton in as well.

[Beacool]

54. No surprise here.

I've heard it from plenty of people and it's beyond Hillary. It's about not thinking that Obama is qualified to be president. Whether it be due to his lack of experience, the Wright controversy or any other reason, there are plenty of Democrats who will not vote for Obama and it's not just because of Hillary, it runs much deeper than that.

I've been told by some Democrats that even if she were on the ticket, they would not vote for the Dems. as long as Obama was on the ticket too. Now, that one did surprise me!!!!

[BlooInBloo]

55. They're showing themselves to be as jackass as the rest of the population.

[Vinca]

61. Well, I'm glad I'm past the age to ever find myself in need of an abortion.

2 Supreme Court justices are holding on for dear life hoping for a Democratic president. If it doesn't happen, it will be a very bad thing.

[laugle]

141. That's funny, I was thinking the same thing and many

of HRC's supporters are older,and don't have to worry about pregnancy. That might explain part of why they don't care to vote for BO.

My theory is, all McCain needs to do, is back off on the war, I mean there's no way to pay for it, and then BO would be done.......without being seen as experienced, he becomes a one issue candidate, he opposed the war. Change and hope would not carry him through the GE!

McCain declares victory--and bye,bye war...................

[wowimthere]

63. I'm sorry but I don't trust Assmussen polls... they are unreliable

[GoesTo11]

64. Why shouldn't Clinton supporters vote McCain?

According to their candidate, McCain is ready to be commander-in-chief, Obama is not.
According to their candidate's husband, McCain loves his country, but no comment on whether Obama loves his country.

[itcfish]

69. Strange, CNN

Gave the opposite numbers. According to CNN if Hillary gets the not 27% of Obama supporters will vote for McCain. Somebody is lying.

[Ravy]

72. Well, it *is* April 1st.... nt

[itcfish]

78. Yes it is

and the joke is on the democratic party that allowed the media, the republicans and Oprah to select our candidate. Sad, very sad.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

86. They should stop treating Clinton with such disrespect - and Clinton supporters should do the same.

When people post pictures of a dog pooping on a photo of a candidates spouse and it gets several recommends - it is a text book example of how to drive away supporters.

At least the thread was deleted.

[goldcanyonaz]

89. I know quite a few of these people, both men and women who are now ABO's.

Dunno if they will change their mind by November, but maybe they will.

[Tellurian]

110. Heres a good reason: "Obama Thugs Force Mayor Nutter to Shut Down his E-mail Server."

"Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter’s office was flooded with angry calls from Obama supporters after he came out in support of Hillary. Some people doubted my statements but those that bothered to call Mayor Nutter’s office confirmed everything that was written. But, as Hyper Educated Uppity Woman reports, his e-mail server was overwhelmed and had to be taken down."

I’ll let her describe the well deserved contempt so many of us have.

"As part of NoQuarter’s encouragement campaign, many readers emailed Mayor Nutter in support of his courage under harassment. His email was returned by Mailer Daemon. The poor guy had to shut down his email address, so you can just imagine how badly he was harassed by these savages. My God, these people are fear mongers and race baiters.

What’s next? Coming to your home and beating the crap out of you? Lining us up and shooting us dead until there are no more Hillary voters left?

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/01/obama-thugs-cause-mayor-nutter-to-shut-down-his-email-server/

I could have started a thread with this title. The only purpose served would have been a feeding frenzy by Obama supporters denouncing anyone that supports Hillary on this supposedly Democratic site. Voting for Obama for President? Not in a million years. I'll write-in Sen Hillary Clinton in the GE, if he is the nominee.

[laugle]

130. That's disgusting what they did, and all

too typical. Geraldine Ferraro got the same treatment and was angry and schocked. BO knows full well what is going on and does nothing about it. He thinks were too stupid to realize that he is NOT Mr. squeaky-clean!

[Tellurian]

144. Sure he knows ..it's his only "Universal" point!

[ShadowLiberal]

93. Rasmussen hasn't been sounding too reliable lately

I don't know about you, but whenever I've seen a Rasmussen general election poll lately, it hasn't looked too reliable to me lately. I mean I saw one Rasmussen poll in the last week with Obama losing to McCain by something like 10% or 11%, and Hillary losing to McCain by almost 20%. As much as I do believe that this long primary battle has already hurt both Clinton and Obama in a general election, I find it very hard to believe that McCain would beat either of them by 10% or more.

[Thrill]

97. That doesn't make sense. How can that be and yet Obama and McCain be basically tied??

Please explain

[PATRICK]

98. Before anyone starts blaming the Clinton

supporters for inferior party loyalty, I would guess(it can only be a guess) that the numbers and vehemence comes from the tensions of being stuck in a losing situation and reflects also the same attitudes, frustrations and leadership of HRC herself. Ironically, this matches the transformation of the rather vehement "anyone but Hillary" groups before the primaries ever started. Suddenly those people are becoming, despite their locking horns with the Clinton supporters, suddenly more "loyal" and malleable.

I would guess as well that people who had serious thoughtful objections or reservations about either candidate are in the minority when it comes to either super enthused band of supporters.

But this isn't about brains or morals but prognostication. I would think with proper healing and restoration of focus, sanity- or whatever else can promote common sense and consensus- most of the contest created dust cloud will settle down.

You know for sure there will be diehards. Just mention Kerry and the "I told you so's" will come out of the woodwork to tear him down above and beyond the call of facts. We still have people who have it in for HHH or Mondale or Dukakis. If that kind of lifelong bitterness and righteousness is attractive, by all means start falling in with the people slaughtering your children, destroying your nation and picking your pockets. The more bitterness the better, right?

Perhaps in a kinder gentler world in some MSM fantasyland, destroying America for another four to eight years is a drop in the bucket. Some of us think this may be a mortal mistake for the entire biosphere, much less America and its liberties. But anyway, it has more self-righteous tone, so to speak, to vote for the one you hate so you can complain later more loudly. We have all been stuck at one time or another voting for the lesser of two remaining evils trying to save this nation. Too often, it hasn't worked and the "I told you so's", I hate to say, really haven't helped much to improve things.

Conclusion: The Clinton supporters are no different than anyone else and the long, pitched battle is what is creating this situation- in itself. There have been weaker, more polite losing candidates, and especially those whose one on one engagement has not been as passionate or long. The sole responsibility for the single person MOST under undue stress and dilemma, lies with Hilary. The leadership paradox facing her as a Democrat and American is to heal her loyal followers, not game them like some modern Caesar with his mob, and get most of the Dem voters out of the self-destructive mode the corporate MSM is 24/7 trying to spin.

An even harder necessity awaits. Most likely for reasons that are unshakable and some entirely no fault of her own, she would not make a good VP candidate for the ticket. Leadership of her bloc in this matter and the trickier Convention votes about the destiny of the party are likewise her responsibility. I would not presume to know how hard such secondary tasks could become after such a tearing loss. In all that her loyal and loving supporters would be there to share whatever actions are taken. As would those of ANY candidate, regardless of the moral flavor or constituent base.

If by some unexpected twist HRC should emerge triumphant and legitimate head of the ticket, the numbers above would change so much your head would spin. And the hands gleefully accelerating the spinning top are all GOP spinmasters.

[PoliticalAmazon]

99. Everybody should vote for the person they think will be the best president...

...Robotically voting for anything with a (D) in front of its name is allowing someone else to make the decision for you.

[Hawkeye-X]

104. Have you eaten the hat and taken a photo of you eating it yet?

Still waiting on that "bold" prediction of yours for Edwards endorsing Hillary.

Of course you won't eat it, and refuse to show a photo or find a fake one.

Hawkeye-X

[rodeodance]

105. Obama Fails to Assuage White Indiana Voters With Speech on Race

Obama Fails to Assuage White Indiana Voters With Speech on Race



http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080401/pl_bloomberg/adx9sdaw1tw;_ylt=ArdOqxveYDiIws6tXP82jZis0NUE


Bloomberg.com
Obama Fails to Assuage White Indiana Voters With Speech on Race

Heidi Przybyla 1 hour, 11 minutes ago

April 1 (Bloomberg) -- Andrea Helmer was interested in Barack Obama until she heard sound bites of his fiery pastor's sermons. Last week, she volunteered for Hillary Clinton's campaign in Indiana.

``As things came out regarding some of the things his pastor has said, I got concerned,'' said Helmer, a 36-year-old respiratory therapist and mother of two in Evansville, Indiana.

Interviews with dozens of Democrats in this overwhelmingly white region -- where voters will go to the polls in the May 20 primary -- suggest residual concerns over the controversy involving Obama's former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright.

……..

Unease Among Whites

Still, there are stirrings of unease among white voters, including those who fear the issue will hurt Obama in a general election. Pew also found that 39 percent of all white voters said the controversy made them less favorable toward Obama.

John Friend, an uncommitted Democrat and Evansville city councilman, said Republicans may use Obama's ties to the pastor much in the same way they attacked Democratic candidate John Kerry's patriotism in 2004.

``It's going to be like the Swift Boat thing,'' Friend said.

………
One Visit

[LulaMay]

108. Thanks for the dose of reality and cheery news.

[Danger Mouse]

112. i think the majority of them will come around to obama once the nomination is settled...

and he works at healing the wounds.
once the spotlight is on mccain, true blue dems will be far too revolted to consider voting for his ass.

[Life Long Dem]

116. "The trend is not her friend!"

Credit goes to Tucker Carlson for just saying that.

[aquarius dawning]

121. It isn't as if you weren't warned enough. I'd be curious to see that same poll in IN, OH, Fl, MI, MO

WI, and VA. I'm betting the results would be similar. I'm also betting that McCain has already won this election.

[laugle]

124. Obama started this

shit! He was the one that said his supporters may not support HRC if she were the nominee. Then that shrew of a wife of his, when asked if she would support HRC, said she'd have to do some research on her policies!

I was shocked that they would try to divide our party in that way. Now they are reaping what they sowed!

Stupid strategy from both of them, so go ahead and whine..................

So much for his unity BS!!

[PoliticalAmazon]

125. HRC has dissed Obama every step of the way. If she is Dem candidate...

...I'm volunteering for McCain. After the way she has dissed Obama supporters, I can't see any Obama supporters voting for her. HRC is Karl Rove in drag, and I'll be damned if I'll vote for someone who has used Bush-Jr/Rove tactics against Democrats, including attacking Obama supporters.

She's made it quite clear she doesn't need our votes. Otherwise, she wouldn't be such a hateful shrew. So she can just be satisfied with her own supporters, because, believe me, NONE of McCain's supporters would vote for her.

[laugle]

127. I see no

value what so ever in this vicious post! At least mine was factual!

Whine, whine, whine.............

Discussion abated...............take your toys and go home.....ignore....................

[depakid]

126. I just love how DU'ers jump to the tune of Rassmussen

SUCKERS!

[totodeinhere]

128. This just confirms what I have said for a long time.

Too many of Hillary's supporters are not loyal democrats. If their candidate doesn't win, they will pick up their toys and go home.

[Kahuna]

129. No wonder the SDs are defecting to Obama so that they can put an

end to the clinton nonsense. If you notice, those 50 SDs talked about before OH and TX that were supposedly "frozen" by team Clinton, are beginning to join Obama in oneses and twoses everyday. It won't be long before Obama will have the number required to put the clintonistas out of their misery and the Democratic party along with them.

[NoodleyAppendage]

136. "Blue Collar" Dems = Closet racist fears. A vote for a black man is scary.

I'm firmly convinced that a portion of the contingent of Hillary supporters who will not support Obama for any reason are only taking this position because they are racists (and likely don't even know it).

J

[lumberjack_jeff]

142. Yet, you're pretty confident that none of Obama's support...

...is from people who won't elect a woman as president, no matter what, it appears.

This is an inherently counterproductive argument. You won't change the minds of any hypothetical racist Hillary supporter, but you will alienate her supporters who your candidate will need.

"Blue Collar" used to be our core constituency. Apparently we've grown too good for them. Pity, given that 73% of the public does not have a bachelor's degree.

Someone did a poll here recently asking the very question of DU'ers. It was found that Obama supporters were much more likely to refuse to vote for Hillary than the reverse. This was explained at the time as a manifestation of how awful, bad and horrible that Hillary woman was, and how she's so poisoned the well.

Now that a poll is conducted which shows about a third of Clinton supporters won't vote for Obama, it's because Hillary's support is from blue collar folks who in your mind are uniformly racist - not because of the behavior of Obama and his supporters.

Look up "logical fallacy".

[NoodleyAppendage]

181. It is EXACTLY because 73% of Americans are not college educated that we elected a CHIMP FRAUD.

Being uneducated and malliable politically are positively correlated. This is the big problem with our country. If we want good leaders, we need to look beyond race (or gender) and elect the best person for the job...not the person you want to have a beer with. The latter criterion bespeaks of the idiocracy that we have become.

Racism and education are inversely (negatively) correlated, meaning as education goes down racism goes up. It's a simple fact. If blue-collar people are largely uneducated, then it is not a leap in logic to suppose that there might be a higher incidence of racism amongst those people.

J

[lumberjack_jeff]

182. No. You misunderstand the problem.

1) People are people, no matter their education. Given the choice between associating with people who think it fair to call you a bigot or an idiot, or (insert moral failing here) because of your job and those who don't, people will choose the latter.
2) There's a reason that the phrase "torches and pitchforks" is used as a metaphor for revolution. They're not as malleable as the elites imagine. Talk to them, don't sneer at them.
3) The attitudes toward working class voters that you display is the principal problem with our party, and we should call it what it is; elitism. It is second only to health care reform as a reason that I prefer Hillary.

I want a democrat to win. Please accept this in the spirit in which it is intended, and with the greatest possible respect.

Shut up.

[NoodleyAppendage]

183. I want a Democrat to win in the General Election too...which is why I'm supporting Obama.

I'm not interested in the least propping up a reign of Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton. Enough with the political dynasty crap between these two houses. It's time for a clean break.

Also, if you really think that Hillary gives a rat's ass about blue-collar peoples, then I have a swath of beachfront property to sell you in Mamou, LA. She's just appealing to those that she can hoodwink the easiest. Nothing more or less.

J

[IndianaGreen]

143. Hillary's women voters would rather see McCain stack the Supreme Court

and the lower courts with rightwing Federalist Society judges rather than see Obama in the White House, that's what this is boiling down to.

Well, they can all get the hell out and join Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman on the Dark Side.

[Hoof Hearted]

160. I always felt your disrespect of women was barely contained. I see it's come to the surface.

[Skittles]

178. and she's a woman, too n/t

[Colobo]

145. Only a Republican would prefer McCain over Obama. True Democrats

know both Hillary and Obama are better than any Republican.

[Skittles]

179. knowing they're better is a given

knowing we could have had much, much better candidates is what truly bites

[Hoof Hearted]

148. Fuck any post that begins with accusing 50% of democratic voters to children.

There is no reason to read beyond the first sentence.

[DemGa]

158. Did ya ever consider the problem is BO?

[LadyVT]

165. Yup. I agree. Looking at his US Senate votes in their entirety, I can't help

but conclude that the man is beloved by the Republicans because he votes JUST LIKE THEM.

Wake up, people. Stop believing all the garbage.

[DemBones DemBones]

171. That is something logical people would consider.

But there's little logic among obamatrons.

[JVS]

167. teacup criers

[Mezzo]

172. heh. You should see the shit around me re. the Obamamanics NOT thinking they have to reach out. nt

[still_one]

175. I don't believe it, but if it is the case THEY ARE THE STUPIDIST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD

Any DEMOCRAT who does NOT vote for the DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE, no matter who it is, is irrelevent

[Ka hrnt]

180. This is why both BO and HRC are toast...

"Just 21% of Pennsylvania’s Primary Voters say that Clinton should drop out of the race while 18% would like Obama to leave. Those figures are similar to results from a recent national survey."

This is why both candidates need to be scrapped. If even a quarter of these people (nationally) opt not to vote in the GE, the Dem candidate is in serious trouble. If said quarter of people actually follow through on their pledges to vote for McCain--which I personally doubt--then the Dem Candidate WILL lose, probably by a wide margin. It's probably too late for a "do over" as far as candidates go, and I think we better start preparing for President John McCain. :shrug: