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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 07:39 PM
Original message
Book: Hillary so Calculating, She Got Bill to NOT Intervene in Bosnia 4 HillaryCare! So 250,000 Died
Edited on Tue Apr-01-08 07:55 PM by Dems Will Win


I remember this. Being enraged that Clinton did not intervene in Bosnia for 4 years and let all those people die. Now we know why! Hillary was trying to protect her precious, doomed health care intiative! This is the real story behind the story.

250,000 died in those 4 years Hil stopped Bill from acting.

When Clinton did finally intervene with NATO bombing, the fighting was over really quickly -- it was no Vietnam (although there is still tension and many problems), and we had the Dayton Accords. Later there was Kosovo, but that was over quickly too. Even the concentration camps and the Srebenica massacre and rapes of July 1995 did not prompt American military action until there was a second massacre at Markale by the Serbs. Finally NATO conducted air strikes, and there was peace months later.

I posted a diary about this last week, but now I realise why, as a European actively involved in campaigning against Serb ethnic cleansing and attempted genocide, I felt so strongly about Hillary's lie about Tuzla, and all the further lies she told to disentangle herself.

But it's not just the coverup, or the lying that has really taken this to a new dimension: it's the original sin that's now at stake.

This isn't a hit diary. This is important to me personally and politically. Bosnia was for many Europeans of my generation as important as Vietnam was for Americans of a previous era. That she should use this genocidal war, it's hundreds of thousands dead, to enhance her credentials, is really shameless. That she actually was one of the voices that prolonged the genocide is completely shameful.

From Sally Bedell Smith: For Love or Politics.

Taking the advice of Al Gore and National Security Advisor Tony Lake, Bill agreed to a proposal to bomb Serbian military positions while helping the Muslims acquire weapons to defend themselves—the fulfillment of a pledge he had made during the 1992 campaign. But instead of pushing European leaders, he directed Secretary of State Warren Christopher merely to consult with them. When they balked at the plan, Bill quickly retreated, creating a "perception of drift." The key factor in Bill's policy reversal was Hillary, who was said to have "deep misgivings" and viewed the situation as "a Vietnam that would compromise health-care reform." The United States took no further action in Bosnia, and the "ethnic cleansing" by the Serbs was to continue for four more years, resulting in the deaths of more than 250,000 people."

I can personally witness to the truth of this, too. I can remember, first, one of the Clintons' closest personal advisers—Sidney Blumenthal—referring with acid contempt to Warren Christopher as "a blend of Pontius Pilate with Ichabod Crane." I can remember, second, a meeting with Clinton's then-Secretary of Defense Les Aspin at the British Embassy. When I challenged him on the sellout of the Bosnians, he drew me aside and told me that he had asked the White House for permission to land his own plane at Sarajevo airport, if only as a gesture of reassurance that the United States had not forgotten its commitments. The response from the happy couple was unambiguous: He was to do no such thing, lest it distract attention from the first lady's health care "initiative."



It's not only that Hillary recklessly padded her CV, and refused to account for it in any coherent way. It's much bigger than this. He has now shown, as I always heard and suspected, that Hillary was the brake on Bill when he initially wanted to intervene and hammer the heavy Serb guns to stop the massacre of innocent civilians.

I have now found TWO contemporaneous accounts of Hillary dissuading Bill from intervening in 1993 in Elizabeth Drew's book ON THE EDGE and Richard Reeves, RUNNING IN PLACE.

Update <2008-4-1 8:50:13 by Brit>: Though probably few are reading this by now, I've now come across an interview with Richard Reeves from NPR's Frontline in 1996, which confirms, in Bill's words, Hillary's influence.

This is from an interview with Richard Reeves on PBS Frontline in 1996. (My emphasis)

"I think the Bosnian policy of the United States, which I don't disapprove of, is a perfect example of the Clinton presidency. That is, the President wakes up new each morning and so we have had 365 Bosnian policies a day. He may have been talking about it at home, he may have read something, he may have heard something. He is open to information. This is not a closed man, which changes his take on it. The most dramatic example came toward the end of the first year, when he agreed, at a series of meetings on policy called "Lift and Strike," TO lift the arms embargo on the Bosnian Muslims and strike at Bosnian- Serb targets. That happened on a Friday. Warren Christopher went to Europe to tell NATO allies what we were going to do, and that Monday morning there was a meeting in the Oval Office between Clinton, Colin Powell, then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs-of-Staff, and Les Aspin, then Secretary of Defense.

And as he walked into the room, Clinton was carrying a book called Balkan Ghosts, by Robert Kaplan. And he said, "My wife read this and I read some of it too. And it says that we can't succeed doing anything in that society. They've been killing each other for thousands of years and they're going to keep doing it." And Les Aspin said later, he was sitting there thinking, "He's going to go south on Lift and Strike."
And he called Europe, got Christopher, and said, "Don't say anything. The President's going to change his mind." And in fact the President did.


You can also find the anecdote scattered around various blogs - just google Hillary and Robert D. Kaplan's (pernicious book) Balkan Ghosts



Update <2008-3-31 21:4:41 by Brit>: Since Hitchens has long departed these shores, and I was rather stupidly unaware of what a compromised source he is to Kossacks, I'll end on some key quotes from Cohen's article, framed with an explanation from Abie who has posted in the thread

Cohen eloquently makes the same argument as Hitchens:

Only after the mass murder of Bosnian Muslims at Srebrenica, three years after the initial Serbian genocide of 1992 against that population (and one year after a genocide on his watch in Rwanda), did the gelatinous Clinton develop some backbone. NATO bombed, Richard Holbrooke did his brilliant work at Dayton in November 1995, and the guns fell silent in Bosnia.


No need to beat up Hills any longer on her fairy tale, but he makes a very important point, going well beyond the issue of lying, but rather puts the lie in context:

Hillary Clinton’s transference is intriguing: Suffering Sarajevans ran from snipers during the war her husband let fester. Invented danger, supposed to showcase bravery, may instead betray guilt.

http://www.amazon.com/Love-Politics-Hillary-Clinton-White/dp/1400063248/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207013773&sr=1-1


Update: Found original sources no need for Hitchens, here is Bedell's bio:

Sally Bedell Smith is the author of Grace and Power: The Private World of the Kennedy White House, Diana in Search of Herself: Portrait of a Troubled Princess, Reflected Glory: The Life of Pamela Churchill Harriman, and In All His Glory: The Life and Times of William S. Paley and the Birth of Modern Broadcasting. A contributing editor at Vanity Fair since 1996, she previously worked at Time and The New York Times, where she was a cultural news reporter. She lives in Washington, D.C., with her husband, Stephen. They have three grown children.



RECOMMEND IF YOU THINK HILLARY'S CALCULATING TRIANGULATION ON BOSNIAN INTERVENTION WITHOUT CARE FOR HUMANITY IS SIMILAR TO HER TRIANGULATING POLITICAL "JUDGEMENT" ON HER IRAQ WAR VOTE

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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. Boycott voting Democrat! The party obviously condoned this at the time.
Why not go all the way? How can Hillary bashers support the party considering how much the party has supported her over the years.

oh yeah...

:sarcasm:


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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I say boycott Hillary in the primary. 250,000 dead for HillaryCare? This is judgement?
She has no judgement, just political calculations.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. 250,000? Bush has only killed 4,000 Americans and 20 or 30 thousands Iraqis.
Democrats are Worse than Bush.

Who knew?
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Not all Democrats
Obama had nothing to do with the Bosnian dead.

But apparently Hillary had a LOT to do with it...
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Deleting. I tire of this. nt
Edited on Tue Apr-01-08 08:41 PM by onehandle
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DemVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Good one.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Uh, that's the point for a lot of us
And we are taking names as to who signs on with the Clintons. Some of us know the Dems who know how bad the Clintons are, and if they don't take this party (and country) back from them now, they never will.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Yeah if there's one thing that gets my goat, it's letting massacres, concentration camps and mass
rapes slide so your healthcare initiative can get triangulated. I hate when people do that.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. So do we boycott every elected Democrat that's ever stood with the Clintons?
There wouldn't be many left out there. The whole party.

And FYI, if Obama wins the nomination (likely), he and Hillary will make up and he will stand with the Clintons.

That's my point.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yes, I'm paying attention
I have been for a long time. The Clintons and the DLC have led us down the wrong path. I will be fighting anybody who keeps going down that path. I have alway said that I am personally more against Hillary than anything. If it had ever come to a choice between some other candidate who was taking out Hillary, and Obama, I'd have gone with the candidate who could beat Hillary. I don't understand why people can't see how wrong they have been at almost every turn, during his Presidency and during her campaign.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. OH THOSE EVIL CALCULATING WIMMIN
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. I wouldn't believe Hitchens if his tongue came noterized
He is a huge shill for Iraq for one thing. He lied about Mother Tersea while her funeral cottage was passing so he would lie to anyone, at anytime, about anything.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. ....
:spray:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. Christopher Hitchens. Grand.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. this all sounds like hearsay to me.
and I don't like Hillary, but I would hesitate to pin this on her. in fact, i wouldn't pin this on her.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Oh really? Here's some hearsay from Bill himself:
TIME: “John Kennedy said that after he was elected, he began to think in terms of who it was he had to have in the room when he made the really big decisions. For him, that was Robert Kennedy. Who is it for you?”

BILL CLINTON: “Hillary.”
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. still hearsay on this issue.
you do understand the meaning of "hearsay", right?
for this report to not be hearsay, there would have to be proof of content of private conversations between Bill and Hillary.

note I'm not saying this didn't in fact occur, just saying I will not make that accusation based on people's characterizations of private conversations.


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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. This is a sourced book from Random House and there is no libel suit being threatened
so how can you call it hearsay?
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. "was Hillary, who was SAID to have"
again, do you even understand what "hearsay" is?

1. unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. So now she's bad because she opposed bombings.
Geeze, I can't tell DU from FreeRepublic anymore. Christopher Hitchens? Sally Bedell Smith writes stories about famous couples--Princess Diana, the Kennedies (she called Jackie "bratty"). Richard Cohen was a supporter of Bush and the Iraq invasion, criticizing anyone who doubted there were WMDs as ridiculous. He also called the trial of Scooter Libby politically motivated.

Nice collection of reliable sources there.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yikes
I'm all for Obama but definitely not recommending this. This decision was Bill's to make. Well, that's why her so called "experience" as a first lady means nothing to me either.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. The Serbs say Hillary was the one who wanted them bombed.
Everyone wants to blame Hillary. Can you guys get your stories straight? Or is all hearsay true if it is about Hillary?

Remember Somalia? Want to try blaming Bush Sr. for getting us into that one which made it impossible for the Clintons to intervene in Rwanda or any other conflict for quite a while? Bush Sr. did Somalia for petty revenge. But that is probably ok in your book because he isn't Hillary.

Get a life or learn US history one or the other.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
23. you are an embarrassment
to Obama supporters

and DU members in general
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. This is crap. The American ambassador essentially started the war--
--by encouraging Itzbegovic to NOT sign the Lisbon agreement. It had the sort of ethnic area domination scheme later ratified in the Dayton agreements. Only BEFORE all the bloodshed!
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
25. Would she postpone all her meetings until Hillarycare was passed, if she was elected?
She has a very one track mind. She voted for all those repug pro-war bills because she was focused on the GE, having assumed that she would be given the nomination. Now that has come back to bite her.
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