A problem for several Clinton supporters: Obama was not supposed to run now, 08 is Hillary's time.

[Colobo]

Talking to several of my students tonight about the Dem race (all of them females, ages ranging from 19 to 50-something,, Democrats and supporters of Hillary Clinton), I noticed a common line of thought in them:

They all feel Barack Obama's biggest transgression was to run now, do so well and take this away from Hillary. The 4 of them expressed their disbelief when talking about how Barack has managed to do so well without "paying his dues like Hillary has". They seem to be angry at him not because they don't agree with his views, his record or whatever- the 4 of them expressed their dislike for Obama because he seems to be an obstacle for Hillary, someone that is derailing her- someone that didn't "wait his turn".

"Hillary has been getting ready for this for a long time. She's been working hard for this. Obama is making a mistake; he's not as ready as she is and people are falling for it", said one of my students.

One of them suggested Obama should accept the VP spot and "learn" from Hillary and Bill, and get ready for 2016. I replied: "But why would he quit when he's winning?"

"It doesn't matter. People are falling for him. They are buying the hype, but Hillary needs to be on the top of the ticket. Hillary can beat McCain. She's ready and he's not. It's her time. He should be the VP. It would be a smart move by him to accept the VP slot."

So, the problem of these students with Obama is simple: He's on Hillary's way...

[anonymous171]

1. I've only heard this one from the most hardcore supporters.

But yeah, it's pretty undemocratic and reaks of dynasty/monarchy.

[keep_it_real]

14. The only one entitled to the presidency is the campaign winner.

The winner dictates the time by the peoples consent and is the person of the hour - time.

[Rocky2007]

122. Spot on!!!!

I'm with you
:toast:

[PatGund]

85. I've seen it here too.

"It's not his time". "He should wait his turn". "It's the young who support him, they need to wait like we did", and varients upon that theme.

That attitude reflects the entitlement attitude that Sen. Clinton and certain of her more rabid staffers and supporters have shown.

If he wins the nomination, I think that will show who's turn it is.

[IndianaGreen]

2. Louis XVI was supposed to follow Louis XV

A Clinton was supposed to follow a Bush, just as a Bush was supposed to follow a Clinton.

I suppose Obama was to the Clinton's a version of Bastille Day.

[Jawja]

77. And after Hillary, you can

bet it will be Jeb Bush's turn.

Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton, Bush.... an insiders game that will have been reduced to an inner circle of TWO families.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

131. Just how many people have the Clintons got out of the way for her to run?

I expect they trounced Kerry so that she would have a clean run in 08 and up came a young Black man! oh oh!

[powergirl]

105. Bastille Day

A sage analogy!

[provis99]

3. well, Nixon felt he was entitled to the presidency too, since it was "his time"

[antigop]

4. There was a LTTE to this effect in the local paper.

How DARE Obama run? How DARE he?

[Muttocracy]

5. Funny, as a Bidenite I felt the same way about Hillary...

Who the heck did she think she was claiming experience over Biden, Dodd, and Richardson?

[IndianaGreen]

6. Like the Oliphant cartoon about Hillary being told Obama was running

[Cha]

35. I read hilary wouldn't shake his

hand in the Senate when he announced he was running? If she thought she was so inevitable and was going to clean up on SuperTues why wouldn't she shake a newcomer's hand?

[Window]

61. That cartoon sums it up nicely.

It's not even so much that he's running, but rather he's doing it so well and beating her. Neither Hillary nor her supporters can handle the truth.

[hogwyld]

87. "Office of the Hillary"?

That made me have a good chuckle this morning.

[hfojvt]

136. I can kinda understand that.

Consider that in October 2007 it looked like she would win. The campaign had kinda started in March and she was still comfortably ahead in the polls and in money-raising. Endorsements to her were dropping like flies. For months it looked like she would win, November, December, January. Right before Super-Tuesday I was still afraid she would wrap it up on that day. I found it amazing and gratifying that she didn't win it that day. I am sure supporters found it amazing and heart-breaking. It was a little bit like the #1 team in the country getting beaten before making the sweet sixteen. True fans would be upset at the upstart Cinderella story that beat them. Or maybe, since it's not totally over, it's like the Red Sox being down 3-1 in the pennant race. Until the curse was lifted, Sox nation always felt like it was "their turn".

[tammywammy]

9. Agreed

If this race was about experience those three would still be in.

[Kool Kitty]

25. Very good question.

They are more qualified and have more experience.

[BenDavid]

7. All I can say is, we had this election won until Obama decided

to unite us. He sure made good on that didn't he? NOPE!

Wouldn't it be great if we won this year? Seems like we had 2008 won...and then...

[scheming daemons]

15. Hillary Clinton was NEVER going to win the GE.... More than 50% will NEVER vote for her under any...

circumstances.


You just don't see it.


Hillary Clinton is a SUPREMELY flawed candidate that has a HARD CEILING of 45% in a general election.


She's too hated.... by too many.



We *HAVE* this thing won..... as soon as she gets out of the fucking way.

[Awsi Dooger]

69. When you make a moronic declaration, don't do it in caps

Hillary with a hard ceiling of 45%? That's world class lunacy, pathetic blind partisanship.

Situational factors dictate general election outcomes and '08 has a Democratic slant. Any nominee would birthright well north of 45%.

[Johnny__Motown]

21. You can't blame Obama for Bill and Hillary's divisive actions, And Hillary was never a sure thing

her negatives were always way to high for a serious candidate.

[Beacool]

28. Yeah, the fellow is such a "uniter", isn't he?

That must be why we are in the middle of a civil war within the party.

I feel all warm and fuzzy inside, it's either due to the Uniter or a bad case of indigestion.

:eyes:

[GarbagemanLB]

36. Indigestion? Worse- we've got a severe case of Clintonitis, and it is a nasty virus.

[dkf]

67. Its hard to unite when someone wants to destroy you.

ala kitchen sink.

[Kool Kitty]

Oh, so this is more of a "How dare he run and mess up Hillary's

chances?" kind of thing. Gee, there were other candidates running against her, too. Were they wrong in choosoing to run this year? Mrs. Clinton is not "owed" the Presidency. She can either win or not win. No one running is entitled to anything.

[keep_it_real]

31. LIfe is filled with the unexpected - such is life.

[JVS]

38. We did not. We were about to throw the Republican attack dogs a nice juicy steak

[Window]

64. You had this election won in your minds.

He's united more people than Hillary, that's why he's winning.

Would be great to win this year. Yep, seems like we had 2008 won...and then...Hillary began her operation kitchen sink...

[snooper2]

94. He did unite us...

Your blind Clinton loyalty won't let you see that. The Clinton's are not "GOD", far from it in fact...

More Money, More Donors, More States, More Delegates, More Votes, More VOTERS!

Yes, Obama did unite us...the 29%er's can't see that...


GOBAMA!!!

[anamandujano]

8. He was born thinking it was his time. He has an ego the size of California.

[keep_it_real]

26. There is nothing more powerful than an person born with a determined idea

To find the cure for a disease, to build a airplane or car, discover the wonder of peanuts or to be president. When there is a defining moment in the history of a people and/or nation a man or women will arise and be born to express and articulate that defining moment in history, be it a Adams or Washington or King or Obama etc.

[anamandujano]

56. A determined idea called Entitlement.

[CarbonDate]

72. Can't... take... the... hypocrisy....

Seriously. Talk about the pot and the kettle.

[izzybeans]

84. No shit. The only ones portraying a sense of entitlement lay in the Clinton camp.

[WolverineDG]

92. Yeah, damn him for wanting to be president when he was in kindergarten

God forbid we actually elect a President who WANTS the damn job. :eyes:

dg

[powergirl]

106. The reason so many new voters will be voting Dem is because of Obama

The surge of voter registration would NOT have happened without Obama. The Clinton supporters know this.

[PatGund]

113. Makes sense

And that's why some of her louder supporters have been very vocal about discounting or belittling the people he brings to the party

[Zachstar]

10. I sure hope this is not true

As it is beyond disgusting if it is true.

I have never heard such crap before in my life. That reeks of the Bush/Clinton mentality that has had its hands on this country for many years. And driven it to the ground.

The job of president is not a damn kingdom!! It is about leading the country not who is entitled by some number of years.

The Bush/Clinton Kingdom mentality has got to end!!

[jgraz]

13. It's absolutely true. We've had many posters on DU say exactly that

[Colobo]

16. It's true. I usually talk a bit of politics with my students.

I have all sorts of students- from Bill O'Reilly fans to Obamaniacs.

[LowerManhattanite]

125. It is a sillyf*ck sentiment

That many here on DU have espoused.

That based on percentage of population a woman “deserves” the shot first.

That he should have “waited his turn”. (Never mind that seven or eight other Dem contenders didn't decide to just hang back and “hand it over” too)

That his daring to enter the fray was “unfair” because it changed a pre-destined plan.

All of that has been trotted out here on a sway-backed, glue-factory bound horse.

Somebody shoot it, please.

[tammywammy]

11. It's never anyone's "turn"

I think the Founding Fathers would be turning over in their graves over that mere suggestion.

[keep_it_real]

34. True, indeed.

[scheming daemons]

12. Exactly... Hillary and her supporters expected a coronation.... Damn voters.......

..


There is no "seniority" here...


John Kennedy ran in 1960, even though it was LBJ's "time".....


America needs Obama *NOW*... not in 8 years. The *LAST* thing America needs right now is another Clinton presidency.

[JayFredMuggs]

96. Or worse, Clinton losing th McSame

With Obama, at least we have a chance of winning over non-Dems to vote for him.

[GarbagemanLB]

17. I hope you flunk all of them.

:evilgrin:

[Colobo]

20. LOL! Nah... I'm cool with them, great students.

They are excellent people, by the way... it's just that their views are kinda... well... :)

[scheming daemons]

27. If they believe in "lines of succession" instead of unfettered Democracy, then they are BAD students

...

We don't have an oligarchy or monarchy here.

Nobody gets the job because it is "their turn".


That's what makes America special... and different... from other nations in history.


Teach your students THAT, and you'll be doing your job well.

[Colobo]

30. I'm just a language instructor. Don't wanna get fired!

I understand your point, but I do what I can.

[Renaissance Man]

18. Democracy

That's why Senator Obama entered the campaign. Democracy.

Learn it. Live it. Love it.

[Kermit77]

22. Sorry Hillary, America is "just not that in to you"

Maybe it will never be Hillary's time. Maybe she is so fatally flawed that she would never get elected. Thank goodness Obama got into the race. He may actually save us this election and get us the White House instead of another defeat!

[keep_it_real]

37. How true

[Pisces]

19. Sorry, but Obama doesn't need to go to the back of the bus for anyone, especially Clinton

[ItNerd4life]

126. wow! Never thought of it that way

Interesting perspective, I liked it.

[Johnny__Motown]

23. Did you explain that life does not just hand you things? You need to actually earn them..

[jackson_dem]

48. Not if you have emil Jones and the msm

;)

[jackson_dem]

24. Obama not being ready for the job is part of their problem

There is a reason no one with as little experience/achievement as Obama has ever been elected president...

[Pisces]

29. If you mean he hasn't created enough fantasy attacks or lied enough you're right.

He is sorely lacking in that experience.

[tammywammy]

32. If this was about experience then they would have been supporting Biden or Dodd before Hillary

[jackson_dem]

46. President Byrd?

It isn't about length of resumes but whether candidates meet a minimum threshold for being qualified for the presidency. Many folks like Obama but don't think he meets this threshold. This is why he is far more liked than Clinton yet gets the same support she does against McCain. There is something holding back some who like him and that is inexperience.

[tammywammy]

58. Was Byrd running?

Regardless, if they're going into this election basing their choice on experience, then they'd be voting McCain.

This whole experience argument is stupid. Neither Obama or Clinton have nearly as much social and foreign policy experience than their former competitors.

[cali]

74. Hypocritical bullshit from someone who fervently supported JE

who had LESS experience than Obama. You never made this argument when you supported him.

[kmsarvis]

114. AS SOON AS......

HILLARY DROPS OUT OBAMA WILL START TO PULL AWAY FROM MCCAIN IN THE POLLS.

[scheming daemons]

33. He has more experience than Abe Lincoln had....

I'm sure you'll agree that Presidency turned out well.


And besides..... HILLARY HAS NO REAL EXPERIENCE, especially when compared to McCain.


First lady doesn't count. The wife of a surgeon has no experience in being a surgeon.


If "experience" is the cornerstone for this race, then John McCain will destroy Hillary OR Barack.


You're not going to beat McCain arguing "experience".

[tammywammy]

39. She was an apprentice

:rofl:

With no security clearance

:rofl:

[anonymous171]

40. Hill talking point. This campaign is proof enough that he is ready.

He can handle stressful situations and keep his cool without resorting to desperation. He's also served 10 years in the Illinois state senate along with his term in the Senate.

[jackson_dem]

47. Campaigns prove nothing about being up to the job

10 years in a state legislature means nothing. How many state legislators get elected president? None even run because they know it isn't a qualification for the job.

[anonymous171]

49. How many first ladies run for the presidency? None.

Clinton has even less legislative experience than Obama does.

[jackson_dem]

52. How many of them are there?

There are five alive right now. How many thousands of state legislators are there?

No one cares. I am sure there are minor league players who have more baseball experience than A Rod. That means nothing.

[anonymous171]

53. You just defeated your own argument.

Experience doesn't matter when put against personal merit.

[scheming daemons]

55. Again.... if experience is your measure, your candidate is McCain... not Hillary....

Hillary can't win a GE on the "experience" argument.


And with a last name of "Clinton" and the DLC behind her, she can't win a GE on the "change" argument either.


But Obama can.

[Muttocracy]

59. yep. nt

[scheming daemons]

50. What has Hillary done to prove she's "up to the job"....

besides pissing away nearly $200 million dollars, hiring incompetent boobs to run her campaign, and lied on her resume?


jackson... if EXPERIENCE is the be-all and end-all for you, then you should be supporting McCain in this race.

[yardwork]

110. I agree. Obama's campaign has proven to me that he is a savvy politician.

Hillary's campaign has raised questions about her abilities as an effective politician, imo.

[eridani]

68. Well, there's Bill Clinton, for one

And one-term congresscritter Abe Lincoln for another.

[housewolf]

41. That's a very interesting perspective...

I recently read something on another blog about how many women feel/believe that Hillary is "entitiled" to the nomination and are furious that it hasn't been handed to her on a platter.

It's very curious... I wonder where that comes from.

[Catherina]

45. You see that here too

but not generally from younger women who don't but the entitlement argument. Katzenkavalier's post is interesting because of the age spread.

It's very curious but that attitude's also very embarrassing. A lot of people work toward things their entire life and don't get their wish handed to them on a platter. Hillary wants it handed to her on a silver platter surrounded by watercress or else she'll trash the whole country.

[Catherina]

42. What's the breakdown of pro-Obama/pro-Clinton female students?

I have a few question for you just to satisfy my curiosity

What spurred this conversation? Do you think most of your female students are pro-Hillary?

If not, what do you think is the general breakdown of your pro-Obama/pro-Clinton female students? Is the scale more pro-Obama with the younger ones and more Clinton with the older ones?

What city and state are you in?

What kind of course are you teaching? No slam on you but my first guess isn't a 400-level logic course.

This is really interesting because the women I know are aghast at Hillary's sense of entitlement but I'm mostly dealing with West Coast working women. My stay-at-home female friends tend to be more pro-Hillary for whatever that's worth.

[Colobo]

44. Of course!

I got 21 students, and about...14 or 15 are females. The only ones that are politically vocal are 7- 2 are pro-Obama and the 4 students I talked about are for Hillary. I got one Republican girl as well (she's like 18). So, as far as I know, most of my politically aware female students support Hillary.

I always talk with these specific students about politics a bit, before and after class- I see they are politically aware and like to hear their take on current events regarding politics, to see what they think.

I'd say older female students favor Clinton, while the younger ones favor Obama. My youngest Obama supporter is 18. My youngest Clinton supporter is 19. My oldest Obama supporter is 21. My oldest Clinton supporter is almost 60.

I teach in Tampa, FL. Spanish I, university level. I'm a literature grad student.

Hope this helps.

I'll try to find out what's going on in my other course- I don't talk too much about politics with my other class. However, it's a younger class, so it would be interesting to see what they think.

[Catherina]

51. It does mostly for my worthless morbid curiosity.

I know Tampa well, it's more Dem conservative than where I am. How many of these students are anti-Castro/Chavez? Or pro-Likud? Did you notice a common trend anywhere? How antiwar are they? And how anti-Obama are they as opposed to pro-Hillary?

If I had time, I'd love to write a book about Sex, Race and the 2008 Democratic Primaries but I don't and I'm sure many other people will. Maybe you should!

[fujiyama]

If it was "her time" she would be winning

She had the advantages - the money and the name recognition. She should have walked to the nomination and most predicted she would.

It's not Obama's fault she ran a poor campaign and decided to ignore a large number of states.

[dailykoff]

65. But Obama was born a poor black child!

It's just not fair! :cry:

[Awsi Dooger]

73. It's not his fault, but he may be overrated because of her errors

The two decisive factors in this race were impression that the Clintons played the race card in South Carolina, and Hillary's camp masochistically running a general election-type campaign in a primary with proportional distribution instead of winner take all.

No one gets too excited about football outcomes where the other side clearly surrendered the game via sloppy turnovers, but somehow Obama is an all-conquering messiah. Doesn't compute to me.

I'd be far more certain of his caliber if Hillary had run a flawless race, like her early debates, and Obama had simply proven superior. Now I'm left wondering if we didn't identify the lesser candidate, but one who prioritized Idaho.

You can't apply Hillary's gaffe to a general election because the Clintons damn well know how to win there. Gore was the one who botched it, abandoning Ohio prematurely while undervaluing New Hampshire and Nevada.

Anyway, I certainly am not among the pro-Hillary group condemning Obama for running in '08. Quite the contrary. I mentioned it in a thread the other day. It was outstanding handicapping on his part, and I always prioritize astute handicapping. '08 is a Democratic year by situational influence and you can't allow those to pass you by if you're viable. Hillary also deserves credit for understanding '04 was a horrid spot, challenging an incumbent with his party in power only one term. Bill and Hillary ran in favorable conditions, unlike goofs like Kerry who pick the glaring underdog cycle.

Obama was at apex heading into '08. He was a new curiosity without blemish and his greatest strength contrasted so dramatically with Bush's runaway flaw, the speaking ineptitude. Don't think for one second Obama would be so heralded if the current president, of either party, managed bare minimal competence behind a microphone.

[milkyway]

43. What dues has Hillary paid? We had a lot of Dem candidates that have paid a lot

more dues than her--Biden, Dodd, Richardson. And being a corporate lawyer or sitting on the board of Walmart doesn't count. Neither does being First Lady, unless you mean she earns bonus points for not leaving Bill, or kicking him out of the house, when he fucked around on her.

Apparently, the problem your students have with Obama is that he doesn't know his proper place.

[cooolandrew]

54. Nothing dictatorial about that at all. What is hard to understan about elcting for HRC supporters.

If there wasn't enough elcted delegates it wasn't their time.

[breakaleg]

57. What dues has Hillary paid? She's been an elected official for only 7 years. nt

[backscatter712]

60. There's no such thing as wait-your-turn in a democracy.

Barack Obama has every right to run for President. We all do. I could run for President, even though the number of votes I'd get I could count on my fingers.

Turns have nothing to do with it. Seniority has nothing to do with it. The position on the totem pole has nothing to do with it. We the people have everything to do with it, and when WE decide that it's going to be Barack instead of Hillary, then that's how it's going to be, and if she doesn't like it, she can suck it.

We don't have to make him wait his turn. We're the ultimate arbiters.

[Pernambuco]

62. For both Obama and Clinton, their career is over if they don't win the GE

in November.
Democrats who lose once never recover, traditionally.

[Muttocracy]

66. wow, their whole career, huh? funny how Kerry hasn't retired nt

[dailykoff]

63. Well, look on the bright side:

now you know exactly who's going to plagiarize, cheat on tests, accuse you of sexism and give you crappy course evaluations.

x(

[CakeGrrl]

70. If this is Hillary's "time", her campaign should have

done more to convince the voters of that in the first place. I'm not sure why people are taking it out on Obama for running the better campaign and winning more votes AND endorsements to put him in the lead on all fronts. The polls indicated that it was her nomination to lose, and her campaign is heading toward that on its own, be it from arrogance, incompetence, unpreparedness, or a combination thereof.

[stratomagi]

71. Nobody is owed the presidency.

This is a kind of democracy last I checked.

[bowens43]

75. this is certainly what hillary believes.

we owe it to her goddammit, it's hers, she is inevitable, she deserves it, no one can stand in her way.

[Yotun]

76. Why is it considered a good thing when a candidate has been triangulating for years for their own...

sense of entitlement to a post? I agree with your students that Hillary has been working a long time for this and this is one of the reasons I want her to lose. She has been triangulating, and positioning herself, spinning and lying for years, all for that moment when she would be running and have the perfect position to become elected from. She calculated the timing precisely, at the end of Bush IIs presidency when the general public would be so displeased they'd vote for anyone to get the presidency. She's willing to vote for anything, and support anything, vote for wars, for cluster bombs, support republican causes and ideas, just so she is more 'electable', has the 'national security' credentials, to win this thing. She takes a principled stance on NOTHING! Any wonder progressives hate her? In another board I go to, which is heavily slanted to the left, we have a huge number of posters for Obama, some for Nader, some for Gravel, some for the communist party candidate, some who won't vote anything, one for McCain, and NONE for Clinton. The only people who like her are the hard-core feminists, and the ones shes managed to trick.

Why is a sense of entitlement, and political manuevering for years a GOOD thing? I would not want such a person as a leader, because I cannot trust them, and know they'd be willing to do anything, to keep the approval ratings up. Were she to be working on a principled stance to convince people of her principles in order to become more acceptable for the candidacy yes. Not like this. And your students should be ashamed of themselves.

[Skidmore]

78. No one is "entitled" to the office.

I don't want Obama to be under the tutelage of the Clintons either. I want the Clintons to be gone. I think they have contributed all that they are capable of contributing and what remains is the same sort of corrupt cronyism that we saw through * deliver--witness their vitriolic response to Richardson.

[Strelnikov_]

79. "Hillary can beat McCain"

Houston, we have a problem.

[Apollo11]

80. Right now, neither of our candidates is beating McCain

At least not in the tracking poll that is updated on a daily basis by Rasmussen Reports.

Back in early March, these polls were showing McCain neck-and-neck with either Democrat.

The latest numbers show McCain with a lead of 6 or 7 points over Clinton or Obama.

So the jury is still out on which candidate would have the best chance in November.

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/general_election_match_up_history

[Strelnikov_]

91. No, it's not

Other than a few outliers, Obama has consistently polled stronger than Clinton.

[Apollo11]

81. Like your students, I am also hoping for a CLINTON OBAMA ticket.

I honestly think it is a winning ticket and much stronger than Obama-Richardson for example.

[bunnies]

82. It bothers me

when people talk about running for President as if its like standing in line at the deli counter. Take a number please... Oh, sorry Mr. Obama... Now serving number 44. Its Ms. Clintons turn.

Though, I gotta hand it to the Clinton camp for getting these bizarro talking points to stick. It boggles my mind.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

95. No nomination for you!

[bunnies]

98. You come back... Four Years!

Maybe Eight! :rofl:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

111. LOL!

:rofl:

[JayFredMuggs]

101. That's a great post! eom

[izzybeans]

83. My aunt is one of those Clinton supporters. I was shocked at the entitlement she

felt Clinton had. Like there was a bloodline to a thrown or something.

[blm]

86. The problem your students IGNORE is that HRC saw Gore and Kerry in her way, too, so TeamClinton

worked consistently to undermine both and outright SABOTAGED Kerry's campaign in 2004 when most Dems had no idea the Clintons would go to those lengths to hurt our own party as they protected BushInc.

Do they think THAT should be rewarded?

[JayFredMuggs]

88. Very informative post ! Thanks! eom

[kentuck]

89. Obama is Ralph Nader?

He is keeping Hillary from her inevitable win?

[kmsarvis]

119. IN A DEMOCRACY.......

A CANDIDATE WITH A 32% POSITIVE RATING IS HARDLY "INEVITABLE".:rofl:

[WolverineDG]

90. I heard this same stuff too

"It's HER turn." "HE can wait. SHE will never get another chance to run." "Think of all the 80 year old women who've been waiting all their lives for a woman president." :eyes: And my personal favorite: "He's had everything he's ever wanted just handed to him on a silver platter. She's had to work so hard to get where she is." (projection much?)

Sorry, but we don't take turns being the presidential nominee like we take turns riding shot gun.

dg

[SoCalDem]

93. Mrs. Bill did not "wait her turn".. She shoved Nita Lowey under the bus

to run for the senate in NY.. It was not her turn..it was not even her STATE..but she felt no sympathy for Lowey, who was all ready to run..who had served in congress for many years//and should have been the nominee..

Bill's wife HAD to have senate background to lay the foundation for Bill's 3rd term, and anyone who dared to oppose her was grond underfoot.

Bill's wife "should" have waited for an open seat in Illinois or Arkansas, but she did not.. Why?..because she knew she would LOSE..

[Muttocracy]

127. thank you - I've been attacked for posting similar nt

[SoCalDem]

133. I've been attacked vigorously

:)

I've been called sexist and "warned" to stop calling her Mrs Bill of Bill's wife, but the funny part is that I could have readily accepted her if her campaign had not been so UGLY..and unnecessarily UGLY.

She is running on HIS record..and it's OBVIOUS that HE wants it more than SHE does..

[marshall]

97. Finding new ways of calling Obama an "uppity negro"

I guess Hillary learned what she could from Strom Thurmond about such things.

[Tatiana]

99. There is a lot of truth to your post. Thanks for expressing these views.

It is important that Obama supporters be able to address these concerns with their friends/family who otherwise don't mind Obama.

I have had similar conversations with my older sister, who is a very big Hillary supporter. She feels like Hillary has "paid her dues" and that Obama "hasn't." She says that she is sure that Obama is destined to become President, but just not now. When I ask her if he is clearly a President for the future, why is he not a President for the present, she cannot answer the question.

I told her that maybe HILLARY ran at the wrong time. Maybe 2004 was her year, after 4 awful years of Bush, the Clintons looked REALLY good then. People would have voted for her nationally. Now, people want to go in a different direction and Hillary is not even attempting to deliver the substantive change that is necessary (though understandably frightening to some). She is promising more centrist, middle-of-the-road, DLC-approved policies for the American public. That may have worked in 2004, but these are desperate times. Someone has got to get this Wall Street mess under control. 28 million Americans will be receiving food stamps by the end of this year. Middle-of-the-road policies are not going to help the majority of Americans who are falling out of the middle class.

[futureliveshere]

100. How old were the 4? I am surprised if the young believe this. Youth, by nature grows by supplanting

the older generation. It is the nature of the cosmos and there is very little anybody can do about it. This election has been about the generational differences between the candidates. As the American public seem to be on the cusp of 'turning the page' Obama will defeat McCain too. There is not too much to choose between HRC and McC when it comes to generational change. The contest becomes much more open b/w the 2 older candidates.

[powergirl]

102. This is what I heard, repeatedly, at the Texas Caucuses

I have many Clinton supporter friends and I try not to get in their face about this stuff. It doesn't serve anyone well. They are usually jumping on me for my support for Obama. Since I'm a woman, age 43, etc., how could I betray Clinton, etc. etc.

They tell me this over and over again: "Obama has time" "Clinton earned it" "Women are getting screwed over"

I tell them that I want a Democratic president and the most electible is Barack Obama. Who knows what the nation will be like in 4, 8, 12 years. Anyone who wants to run for president should do so when the time is optimal for them. Now is the time for Democrats. Why should Obama wait when times may not be so good for us in the future.

Then I usually get no response.

So, there is a visceral incredulity that this is happening. Clinton told everyone it would all be over on 2/5. By setting those expectations and the arrogance of having no campaign plans after that date does a disservice to her supporters and to the party.

[L0oniX]

103. Oh just stop it. Vote for me. I am ready and I will do a better job of it than Bush monkey boy.

I stay up late because I am on musicians time so I can answer the phone at 3 am. I have a G.E.D so I have a better education than Bush monkey boy. I have a 4F draft card so you don't have to worry about me getting into a war. I work on cars so I know a lot about oil. I do about 50 miles a week on my bicycle so I got the transportation thing down. I go sailing so I know about clean water. I go camping so I know about conservation and preservation. I used to smoke a lot of weed so you know I will legalize it. And finally ...vote for me because I am a people person ....I hate them all!

:evilgrin:

[dogday]

104. Is that a zero or an O in your name... Want to get it right

when I write it in... Here is one vote for you... :thumbsup:

[L0oniX]

112. Thanks for your support. Please make donations by using Paypal.

It's L zero onix.

[yardwork]

109. Ok, you got my vote!

I'm especially persuaded by your expertise with "musician's time!"

[democrattotheend]

107. I've heard this too

And even as a supporter, sometimes I wish he'd waited...I'm afraid he might not win because people don't think he is ready. But at the same time, I would rather have him as president now, before he becomes corrupt and cynical like most politicians who have been in Washington for too long.

[yardwork]

108. I think that this is exactly how the Clintons feel!

Unfortunately for the Clintons, the idea that it's somebody's "turn" to be president has never played well in the U.S., at least in my lifetime.

The Bushes were furious when that upstart former governor from California (what was his name? something Raygun) took away their "turn" to be president back in 1980. And Bob Dole felt it was his turn to be president once too - the voters didn't agree.

Poppy Bush finally got to be president for real in 2008, but then that upstart governor from Arkansas (what was his name? what ever happened to that guy?) took away his second term! The nerve!

[ProSense]

115. You need to tell them that it obviously isn't!

Think about the implication of this: Obama should take a back seat to Hillary because she is owed the presidency and his time will come.

Really?

First, Hillary's campaign has demonstrated that she was ill-prepared for any challenge.

Second, Hillary most likely has a number of people in mind for VP. She seems to believe that Obama isn't ready (despite the desperation of her and her surrogates recent call for a unity ticket).

Third, a coronation of Hillary and a presumed win would have put her in the WH for possibly eight years. Obama would be 55 years old, relatively young, but no one can assume that he would have this kind of momentum, which is fueled by the need for change, in eight years.

The entire argument is BS and undemocratic. Want to be president: run and win the Dem nomination. No one owes Hillary the highest elected office in the land because it's her last shot.

Ludicrous!

[Orsino]

116. This is inevitable when she builds her candidacy on experience.

There is just a whiff of "it's my turn" in the Clinton and McCain campaigns. Obama is running as a relative outsider, and so establishment forces will, consciously or not, portray him as a spoiler.

He is a spoiler; that's one of the things I most like about him. As much of a corporatist as he is, he wasn't the establishment's choice. That's gotta be a good thing.

[kmsarvis]

120. AMEN!!!!!

[Arkansas Granny]

117. As a Hillary supporter, I don't have a problem with Obama running for President.

I was surprised, however, when he entered the race because I thought that he would wait until he had more exposure on the national level before seeking the office.

[mmonk]

118. That's always been the "problem".

[Obamanaut]

121. I find it interesting how often I read something to the

effect that "Hillary can beat McCain" and "Obama can't beat McCain."

If Obama can't beat McCain, and Hillary obviously can't beat Obama, how can Hillary beat McCain?

I'll still go with Obama.

[doyourealize1]

123. My view on the issue

I wouldn't vilify these supporters as many posters have done.

Many people feel Obama and HRC are equally fine candidates. They are the similar on the issue. They are also arguably the more talented and most visible of any Democratic candidates in a long time.

Those people expressing outrage over this -- I don't buy it. In the grand scheme of things, HRC and Obama are the Democrats' best chance at getting the White House b/c of their visibility. Obama is probably the better of the two in terms of positive exposure. In these voters' minds, Clinton, then Obama would best maximize the chances of a democratic White House in the next 8-16 years. HRC is aging, and in 8 years her candidacy probably won't be viable. Obama, on the other hand, has a long career ahead of him.

I was partially in agreement with this to a certain extent. HRC, though, probably isn't the most viable candidate given how this election season has progressed. That said, it does take years in my opinion, to properly gauge how the world works when you're a US Senator. By the time Obama takes the White House, he will have been a Senator for just over 2 years if you take into account that he's been campaigning for so long. That worries a lot of people, including me. HRC, back when she was "inevitability" candidate, had broader appeal and was a shoo in for the White House. That's not the case anymore.

[OzarkDem]

124. He's not experienced enough, if that's what you mean

The guy can't find his arse with both hands when it comes to foreign and economic policy. Perfect candidate to be the sock puppet for corporate America.

As always, Obama puts his own ego ahead of common sense and sells his soul to the highest bidder. All those Americans who need health care, jobs and educations are just getting in his way, dammit.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

130. judging by Hillary's non experience in foreign matters

[joshcryer]

128. Hillary was visibly angry at him when he announced his run after she did.

He is a political opportunist, just like any politician. By running he split the "historical precedent" vote between "a black man" and "a woman."

This angered Hillary and there is actually video where she snubs him shortly after the event. CSPAN has it but I can't find it.

One thing no one can deny is that Obama is good at politics. Dirty or otherwise.

[Erin Elizabeth]

129. Which is exactly the same attitude/feeling I get from her.

That she's OWED this. She's ENTITLED to this. It's supposed to fucking BE HERS, dammit. She and her supporters are more and more reminding me of a three year old about ready to just TAKE HER TOYS AND GO HOME.

[quantass]

132. The Esau Complex

A wonderful read posted on DU some time back by George_Bonanza was entitled: Hillary Clinton's Campaign and the Esau Complex talked in depth about this...great read for those fascinated by this thread as i have been ... great post Katzen!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5041176

[book_worm]

134. several people ran and so it wasn't going to be given to Hill on a silver platter.

[quantass]

135. k&r