Media Matters: Obama WAS A Professor

[tishaLA]

How is it that Media Matters for America, the place that corrects conservative misinformation, says Se Obama is was a professor at the University of Chicago despite what Sean Hannity and some Clinton supporters say? Why....they simply check out the "Way Back Machine" and see that he was listed under "Professors." How odd--how disingenuous--of them!

[BuyingThyme]

1. Some of these "scandals" just don't do anything for me.

[woolldog]

2. kr

Good find.

[JustinL]

3. check out some of the other "Senior Lecturers in Law"

Frank H. Easterbrook (Chief Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit)
Douglas H. Ginsburg (former Chief Judge of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit)
Richard Posner (former Chief Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit)
Diane P. Wood (Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit)

Some distinguished company there! Not to mention appearing on the same list as such household names as Richard A. Epstein, Catharine MacKinnon, Martha C. Nussbaum, and Cass R. Sunstein (I'm assuming here that the household contains at least one political/legal philosophy nerd).

How anyone can continue to call Obama an "empty suit" or somesuch is beyond me.

[mythyc]

4. K&R: that wayback machine is super cool

i want to see what "not a professor" whiners have to say about this internet archive screen shot:

[DerekJ]

5. Nice one!!

[davidpdx]

6. Hey if it was on the internet and a Clinton supporter said it,

then it must be true right?

[DerekJ]

7. Kick

[cooolandrew]

8. Well that is good to know very happy to hear he was true on that one. Sweet.

[Eric J in MN]

9. Anyone who taught a course in college or grad school was a professor. NT

NT

[susankh4]

14. This is absolutely not true.

And you clearly do not know what you are talking about.

I was once an "instructor" at a college. And I would never have dreamed of calling myself "professor."

[Eric J in MN]

35. Were you the sole person teaching a semester-long course which gives credit? NT

NT

[juajen]

43. yeah, they're called instructors or lecturers.

Though the print was small, I did manage to read where many on that list were listed as Professors and Asst. Professors. Obama was not. After his name, it read "Senior Lecturer".

Ask any Instructor or Professor and they will tell you the difference.

Perhaps this is one ya'll should "let it sink".

[Eric J in MN]

44. "Senior Lecturer" is a title. "Assistant Professor" and "Professor" are other titles.

People with any of those titles were professors with a lower-case "p."

If Obama claims that he had the title of "Professor" instead of that he was a "professor," then I'll be concerned.

Did the college where your title was "Instructor" have the term "Adjunct Professor"?

That is what people teaching college who weren't on the tenure-track were called where I went to college.

[DemBones DemBones]

10. He did not have the faculty rank of Professor. As a former academic,

I'll explain this. Lecturers are the lowest rank, they do not have tenure-track positions. The next step is Assistant Professor, which normally is a tenure-track postion. Next is Associate Professor, and, at the top, Professor, also called "full Professors" to distinguish them from the lower ranks. Associate Professors and Professors are Senior Faculty, the others are Junior Faculty. Senior Faculty are virtually always tenured, Junior Faculty are not.

The law school uses an intermediate category of Senior Lecturer, higher than
Lecturer, lower than Assistant Professor. Obama was offered a full-time tenure-track position but turned it down. He has been a part-time Senior Lecturer.

It's acceptable to speak of the entire faculty of a college as "professors" but only some are actually "Professors." Students often call all faculty members "Professor Smith," but "Professor Smith" may officially be Assistant Professor Smith.

If Obama had a business card or letterhead from the law school, it would have his name and Senior Lecturer on it, not Professor. His resume should also have Senior Lecturer on it, not Professor, because he has not risen through the ranks to become a Professor.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. More skewing.

The University of Chicago itself has already come out publicly to the media to clarify this issue.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html

Statement Regarding Barack Obama

The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer."

From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.

End of story.

Why Clinton supporters insist on disputing the school's position as stated in its OWN press release itself smacks of continued desperation and complete denial of the facts, as part of their goal to smear. In fact, in the earlier threads on this issue, Clinton supporters were blindly flailing around arguing with what the school itself had stated. It boggles the mind. :eyes: Ironically, they won't talk about how Sen. Clinton FLUNKED the D.C. bar, effectively rendering her unable to practice law in the federal district.

[moc]

12. As a CURRENT academic, I call bullshit on your post. Let me explain this.

First, and foremost, Obama is NOT calling himself a Professor, he's calling himself a professor. So your insinuation that he is claiming top rank of Full Professor is bogus. Yes, he is a professor.

Tenure or lack of tenure has nothing to do with it. For what it's worth, there are institutions that do not tenure senior faculty at all. Indeed, some of these are the most prestigious in our country. I was formerly on the faculty at Johns Hopkins (non-tenure track). They did not tenure until Full Professor. Even if an institution tenures at Associate, there are non-tenured track faculty at all ranks. My current institution has "blind tracks". That is, tenured/tenure-track faculty have the same titles. An Assistant Professor may be tenure track or non-tenure track. An Associate Professor may be tenured or NTT. A Full Professor may be tenured or NTT. You can't tell by title whether someone is tenured. More importantly, tenure has no bearing on whether Barack Obama can correctly refer to himself as a professor.

What Obama had on his business card or his CV is irrelevant. He was a professor at the University of Chicago.

[DemVet]

17. No, he was not.

[moc]

18. Uh, yeah he is.

How come you know better that University of Chicago?

[DemVet]

21. He WAS NOT a full-fledged professor.

[moc]

23. He was not a Professor (note the capitalization, numnuts), but he was a professor (note the lower

case)

By your logic, since I'm an Associate Professor, I can't refer to myself as a professor?

Yeah, that makes sense.

:eyes:

[DemVet]

25. I can agree with that.

I'm talking about a full tenured Professor. Barry was not one.

[moc]

26. Okay, so if you agree with that, please point me to where

Obama claimed the rank of Full Professor.

[BumRushDaShow]

24. Repeating a lie enough times doesn't make it true and denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

The school has indicated in its press statement what he was.

[DerekJ]

30. Here is is one more time

[izzybeans]

33. I think the

poster logged into the wrong sock puppet to respond.

[susankh4]

15. Thank you!

For the clarity of your post.

This issue irks me to no end ... being that I was once college faculty (NOT a professor) and am married to a Full Professor. (He worked YEARS to earn the title.)

When I taught as a clinical instructor it was made VERY clear to me that I was NOT a "professor" and was not to call myself by the title.

If the University of Chicago does not know the difference between it's own instructors and professors.... I'd be reluctant to attend there, to be honest.

[BumRushDaShow]

20. Here we go with the specious insults hurled at the University again.

It boggles the mind if something is proved to not be as the poster wants, then we get:



U of Chicago is not some fly-by-night correspondence school. For god's sake people, get your heads out of your asses. :eyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Chicago_Law_School

[mythyc]

46. post it again, just for the hell of it. I know you won't reply, at least not to the facts

you hold a doctorate and have a term contract you're entitled to be called professor. PERIOD. The below is reposted from the other crybaby's nose-hair pickings of a self-righteous know it all but really don't know jack shit (lack of) argument:

the title of Adjunct Professors is the standard for all law schools (and many others I might add).

(just a baker's dozen, as a sample, there are many many many many more; did I mention many?)

Univ. of WI School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://law.wisc.edu/faculty/directory.php?iListing=Adju... (my god, 110 liars by your and your reporter's book on that list. and darn that school for lying too....)
Brooklyn Law School, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.brooklaw.edu/faculty/adjunct / (133 sanctioned liars on this list)
NYU School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://its.law.nyu.edu/faculty/profiles/index.cfm?fusea...
Univ. of Pittsburgh, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.law.pitt.edu/faculty/profiles/adjuncts
Mercer Univ. School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.law.mercer.edu/faculty/chooseprofile.cfm
New England School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.nesl.edu/faculty/adjunct.cfm
Georgetown Univ. School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/Faculty/FacInfo/list.cfm?Type=LLMAdjunct&Letter=G
Creighton Univ. (OK), Adjunct Professors of Law: http://law.creighton.edu/?adjunctfaculty
UCLA School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.law.ucla.edu/home/index.asp?page=2071
Texas Tech School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.lclark.edu/dept/eda/adjuncts.html
Univ. of MO School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://law.missouri.edu/faculty/adjunct-directory.html
Univ. of OR School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.law.uoregon.edu/faculty/directory-adjunct.php
Univ. of AZ School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.law.arizona.edu/Faculty/adjuncts.cfm

thousand and thousands and thousands of non-tenure doctorate holders lecturing at law schools nationwide universally distinguished by their own schools as professors, and YOU'RE right? get over yourself.

Sea to shining sea, red states blue states, north and south, mountains and plains. but *your* msm talking head thrillary sound-bites are who to believe here... unquestionably.... irrefutably.... unreasonably and illogically.... like your candidate.... and you

CHECK MAKE YOU DANG VARMINT.... :D

[DerekJ]

29. GRRRRRRRRRRR

WTF!!!!!!!!!!

[izzybeans]

34. As a former lecturer all the faculty called me "professor".

They greeted me as "Professor Izzybeans" on a daily basis. I made everyone call me Izzy, sans title.

I'll go with the college on this one.

If you were a former academic then you can appreciate that the culture of academia can't be pigeonholed as a bureaucratic title on a business card.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. Gee whiz? Who am I supposed to believe?

The University of Chicago, or some anonymous internet rube?

[Swamp Rat]

40. True, AND Obama is an 'adjunct professor.'

See how that works? :D :hi:

[CreekDog]

48. Hmmm, your statements vs. University of Chicago's

I trust my decision. :think:

[susankh4]

13. This is actually BS

And the University knows it.

"Professor" is a title conferred upon distinguished faculty.

There is a hierarchy at reputable Universities. It goes something like this:

Instructor
Assistant Professor
Associate Professor
Full Professor


If the University of Chicago does not know the difference between it's own instructors and professors.... I'd be reluctant to attend there, to be honest.

And, if Mr. Obama made it through Harvard Law School, and was never apprised of the difference.... that is a serious problem. (Though quite unlikely.)

[moc]

16. Of, for chrissakes.

Obama did not refer to himself as a Professor or as a Professor of Law. He referred to himself as a professor.

If you can't tell the difference, I doubt you'd be able to get into the University of Chicago.

[high density]

19. You vs. University of Chicago

I guess I'll go with the University of Chicago.

[MBS]

22. oh, for Pete's sake. Read the statement from the U of chicago law school,

at #11 upthread. As #11 said, THAT SETTLES IT. Also read the fact-filled statements at #4 and #12.
My son was an undergrad at U of Chicago when Obama was still on campus, and Obama's position was widely understood, and, by the way, widely respected, among students and staff. Here are the facts: (a) Obama's position was EXACTLY what the U of C law school described in its press release (b) Obama has never misrepresented himself (c) anyone who claims that Obama was misrepresenting his position is deliberately twisting those facts, for thoroughly pig-headed, and unjustifiable, reasons.

[DerekJ]

31. One more time, for the reading impaired

One more time, for the reading impaired.

[LowerManhattanite]

41. This kind of intransigence (in the face of Univ. of Chicago's statement)

...smacks of a “My eyes are closed which therefore makes me invisible” level of willful stupidity.


The University—not some Podunk diploma mill, but a well-regarded and prestigious school said what it said. End of story, right?

Nope.

Not for the sh*t-stirrers.

The desperate.

The dead-enders.

Wow.

[mythyc]

45. hey crybaby you conveniently left out Adjuncty Professors

you hold a doctorate and have a term contract you're entitled to be called professor. PERIOD. The below is reposted from the other crybaby's nose-hair pickings of a self-righteous know it all but really don't know jack shit (lack of) argument:

the title of Adjunct Professors is the standard for all law schools (and many others I might add).

(just a baker's dozen, as a sample, there are many many many many more; did I mention many?)

Univ. of WI School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://law.wisc.edu/faculty/directory.php?iListing=Adju... (my god, 110 liars by your and your reporter's book on that list. and darn that school for lying too....)
Brooklyn Law School, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.brooklaw.edu/faculty/adjunct / (133 sanctioned liars on this list)
NYU School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://its.law.nyu.edu/faculty/profiles/index.cfm?fusea...
Univ. of Pittsburgh, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.law.pitt.edu/faculty/profiles/adjuncts
Mercer Univ. School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.law.mercer.edu/faculty/chooseprofile.cfm
New England School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.nesl.edu/faculty/adjunct.cfm
Georgetown Univ. School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/Faculty/FacInfo/list.cfm?Type=LLMAdjunct&Letter=G
Creighton Univ. (OK), Adjunct Professors of Law: http://law.creighton.edu/?adjunctfaculty
UCLA School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.law.ucla.edu/home/index.asp?page=2071
Texas Tech School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.lclark.edu/dept/eda/adjuncts.html
Univ. of MO School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://law.missouri.edu/faculty/adjunct-directory.html
Univ. of OR School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.law.uoregon.edu/faculty/directory-adjunct.php
Univ. of AZ School of Law, Adjunct Professors of Law: http://www.law.arizona.edu/Faculty/adjuncts.cfm

thousand and thousands and thousands of non-tenure doctorate holders lecturing at law schools nationwide universally distinguished by their own schools as professors, and YOU'RE right? get over yourself.

Sea to shining sea, red states blue states, north and south, mountains and plains. but *your* msm talking head thrillary sound-bites are who to believe here... unquestionably.... irrefutably.... unreasonably and illogically.... like your candidate.... and you

CHECK MAKE YOU DANG VARMINT.... :D

[CreekDog]

47. you idiot, one thing they don't teach you in postgraduate study

are the various titles and what they mean. :eyes:

[1776Forever]

27. Rovian hype - He Was/Is a professor and of the Constitution for God sake! How many repub's can say

that???? Or for that matter anyone???:hi:

[kevinmc]

28. That's what they get for listening to Hannity ... they get wrong info. n/t 8-)

[tabasco]

32. Idiotic smears. It's all they got!

Look at the frenzy in GDP with diehard Hillary supporters trying to manufacture scandal.

It appears they are all on meth and do nothing but kick each others stupid threads.

[featherman]

37. Another garbage smear... ho hum

[dchill]

38. "Sean Hannity and some Clinton supporters"

Oh, what company we must keep to feed our Hillusions. Obama WAS a professor. Hillary WASN'T under sniper fire. To ignore these truths, we must now turn to FOX "News."

[LSK]

39. He taught at the college level

How is he misleading anyone by saying he was a professor??? WHAT IS THE LIE???

[LiveLiberally]

42. This debate is completely absurd because it is grounded in the assumption...

that in the U.S. there is ONE universally recognized definition of Professor (upper OR lowercase). The reality is that THERE IS NONE. Use of the title varies from institution to institution and private schools (such as the University of Chicago) can be particularly idiosyncratic.

In contrast, there is a standard definition of "Doctor." An instructor cannot hold that title without a Ph.D. In the field of Law, the terminal degree is still in most cases a J.D. which qualifies one to use the honorary "Doctor."

Bottom line: If the University of Chicago considers him a professor, Obama WAS a professor.

full disclosure: I am a "full professor" (at a much more modest institution) but very rarely use the title of Doctor for fear someone will call upon me in a medical crisis....