I believe this captures the "Exclude MI and FL" danger perfectly.

[Tyler Durden]

Not MY opinion, but starting to get more common in Michigan daily.

OH YEAH! Heard someone use the term "HILLBAMA" today. With some very small but disgusting differences, that works for me.

Also, DRAFT GORE!

[Birthmark]

1. I won't be checking out McCain's place...

...you can take that to the bank. But I will kick back with a Maker's Mark and Coke at home (as will my wife).

[Tyler Durden]

3. You got THAT right, sport.

I've gotten to the point where I believe it has to get intolerable before it gets better. But then, I AM Tyler Durden, and as Tyler says, "You have to lose EVERYTHING to be free to do ANYTHING."

[Pawel K]

31. Sure, cut off your nose to spite your face

great idea!

[Tyler Durden]

40. The "ONE LINE WONDER" is in the house.

Tell you what. Why don't you take your shit down the hall to someone who gives a fuck about what you think?

This is a problem for BOTH campaigns, and like a typical partisan, you piss on one side over another instead of looking for a solution.

Or are you just too dull to think of one?

[Pawel K]

42. Looking for a solution? That's some audacity you have there

especially after you just agreed that staying at home in November would be a good idea.

You are absolutely right, I am pissing on one side. That side happens to be the side that is willing to throw this entire party under the bus if their beloved "inevitable" candidate doesn't win.

[Tyler Durden]

48. That's it. REASONABLE Obama supporters are one thing.

YOU on the other hand are dangerously paranoid. Ignored.

[Pawel K]

55. Gee, you're putting your fingers in your ears and screaming I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!!!

I wish I could say I'm shocked.

[Pawel K]

26. Smart idea, just like voting for Nader in 2000 was a brilliant idea.

But this is just your idea of trying to strong arm us in to supporting your candidate, you're not really that naive ;).

[JVS]

2. Florida is already a regular customer for the Republicans

It's too bad these states had to cut in line.

[Birthmark]

5. It's even worse that the situation wasn't dealt with wisely.

What kind of fool (aside from Bush) leaves himself no room for compromise? The answer is, apparently, Howard Dean. I'm shocked at how stupidly he's handled this. It's not like we'd have the Electoral Votes to spare.

Now, I honestly don't believe we'll win in November. FL and MI will sink the Democratic Nominee, no matter who he or she is if FL's and MI's delegates aren't seated. And if they are, that appears to be a loss for the DNC...which is isn't a good thing. They were on the right side of the issue but blew it by overreacting.

Will Rogers was right.

[rodeodance]

21. Dean looks weak ---This situation should have been resolved long time ago

[JVS]

28. Dean does not look weak. The situation is resolved.

[rodeodance]

33. So, we disagree.

[cali]

4. MI and FL will be seated

and delusional gorophiles will be bitterly disappointed. What nonsense. Childish, fantasist nonsense. Grow up.

[TahitiNut]

30. It's not about party insiders/activists being "seated" ... it's about candidates facing the voters

The people of Michigan DESERVE to have the candidates COME AND ASK for their votes. The people of Michigan DESERVE to have some of the MILLIONS in campaign funds spent in Michigan. The people of Michigan DESERVE to hear the candidates address unemployment in the state with the HIGHEST unemployment. The people of Michigan DESERVE to hear the candidates address foreclosures in the region with the HIGHEST rate of foreclosures.

When the candidates treat Michigan like a leper colony - good only for their campaign contributions - they haven't EARNED the votes of the people.

It's a FUBAR ... and nothing has changed that.

[Tyler Durden]

56. THANK you.

Most people don't seem to see that this is NOT about whose campaign or candidate, it is about censoring the vote of entire states.

This is not going win friends and influence people.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SeaLyons]

7. ...

:applause:

[HockeyMom]

8. I will stay home

for the first time since 1968.

[wileedog]

12. So you will protest your inability to vote

by not voting?

Genius.

[DemBones DemBones]

13. What a good idea! nt

[DemBones DemBones]

WEIRD! I pressed "Post" ONE time and it posted multiple times.

Sometimes I get double posts but this is ridiculous. . .

[DemBones DemBones]

deleted extra post

[DemBones DemBones]

deleted extra post

[DemBones DemBones]

9. If Dean is bullheaded enough not to seat the FL and MI delegates,

I don't think the Democratic voters in those states could be blamed for voting for somone other than the
Democratic nominee. I think he will give in and seat the delegates because it will give the party a big
black eye for suppressing votes if he doesn't.

The voters turned out and voted on their state's primary day. The voters shouldn't be penalized because
their state governments disobeyed DNC rules. And, yes, I would feel the same way if Obama had won
those states. Fair is fair, even if it goes against my candidate.

If Dean is a hard-nosed fool, there will be other options for angry Democratic voters besides McCain: the
Green nominee, Nader, the Libertarian nominee, possibly a Socialist nominee, and the option of writing in a nominee of your choice. (There is an icon to click on computerized voting machines that takes you to a screen where you type in the name of your 'write-in' candidate. At least this is the case in my state.)

[stahbrett]

15. Florida and Michigan will have delegates at the convention

The key punishment that is not going to go away is that the Florida and Michigan elections that were held cannot have a decisive effect on the nomination process. So once the nomination is determined, a deal to somehow seat the delegates from Michigan and Florida will be reached (assuming that some sort of deal to seat them ahead of time is not made, which will also not be allowed to affect the nomination). Just my opinion, but it seems like the best punishment to hand down... violate agreed-upon party rules and your state loses power in terms of affecting the nomination process.

[Tyler Durden]

16. See, YOU see it's not about HILLBAMA, it's about voting rights!

I like that word. I stole it from a newbie.

[Bolo Boffin]

29. It's called "The Rules." Everybody knew what the rules were.

Dean has said that the delegations will be sat at the discretion of the nominee. That's the way it is always done.

Bonus fact: Did you know? If Florida and Michigan are included, the number of delegates needed to secure the nomination goes up? It's true!

[Larkspur]

53. The decision is not up to Howard Dean...

its up the the DNC credentially committee.

The DNC needs to enforce the rules, the rules that Clintonista Terry McAuliffe had implemented before he stepped down as DNC Chair, else there will be utter chaos in 2012 or 2016 when the nomination is up for grabs again.

MI and FL elected leaders screwed their own people, not the DNC. The FL Dems were caught on tape smirking at the DNC rules as they voted with the Repubs to move up the primary date. Screw MI and FL! Real Dems in those states won't vote for McCain

[DemBones DemBones]

deleted extra post

[DemBones DemBones]

deleted extra post

[DemBones DemBones]

deleted extra post

[DemBones DemBones]

10. deleted extra post

[DemBones DemBones]

11. deleted extra post -- what a pain!

[rodeodance]

14. K and R

[Tyler Durden]

18. Geeze, rodeo, why bother anymore?

My Rule 11.A. thread got 22 recs while the liar who posted journal entries and rePuke interviews to claim it was the FL Dem's own fault got over 80.

NOBODY wants anything up where it can be seen unless it's an Obama "stroke piece."

[rodeodance]

20. For me Hillary is fighting and so will I:-)

[Tyler Durden]

25. Gotta validate THAT.

Just getting tired, that's all.

[rodeodance]

32. agree with you on that--100%

[Apollo11]

17. Disturbing situation. Excellent cartoon.

I don't understand why Obama's campaign is afraid of allowing the delegates to be seated.

After all - Hillary only got 50% of the vote in Florida and 55% in Michigan.

The DNC agreed a plan for a do-over primary in Michigan, but Team Obama blocked it.

It almost looks like Obama is afraid to take his campaign to voters in these States.

But he has mountains of money to fund his campaign. So it makes no sense at all.

[Tyler Durden]

19. I believe you have your answer.

No Quarter and No Prisoners. That's the credo of Team Obama AND most of their supporters.

[Bolo Boffin]

22. Let's check out McCain's place, shall we?

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/

The end of Roe v. Wade.

Years more in Iraq.

Bush tax cut for obscenely rich made permanent.

Chopping Social Security up into personal accounts.

NO MORE MEXICANS!

Guns, guns, guns, guns, guns!!!! Give your kid a gun! Shoot your neighbor by mistake!


FUCK MCCAIN'S PLACE. Fuck anybody thinking about heading over there.

[progressoid]

23. Sooo...are you ready to go over to McCain's place?

You keep intimating that you will. If so, you are posting on the wrong board. There are plenty of knuckle-dragging conservative websites that will welcome you.

[Tyler Durden]

27. Why don't you read the whole thing?

Either that, or go suck a rock.

I SAID, that was not my opinion, but there were many in Michigan who were feeling that way.

I DO hope that clears it up for you?

[Pawel K]

35. Anybody that thinks like that is an idiot

you want to make them forget about this primary? Simply tell them there is a breaking Britney Spears story. We don't need to think about these idiots twice.

So really, what is you point with this thread?

[Tyler Durden]

37. Love the self portrait for an avatar.

Same ole "Fuck Michigan" bullshit.

Enjoy November. Should be VERY interesting. I won't like it much, but so many of you seem to think you can piss on one of the largest states with impunity.

Good luck.

[Pawel K]

41. lol. get real

your only outrage about this is because you are a Clinton supporter. Where are all your posts about how terrible it is that MI and FL are not counting before Clinton started losing?

You can throw childish personal insults at me all you want, I know its because you can't accept the fact that you lost so I'll just take the high road and not respond to that. You are free to be a sore looser and cry all you want, I just hope you wake the hell up before Novemeber comes.

:toast:

[Tyler Durden]

45. I've been yelling about this since JANUARY.

And YOUR childish insults incited a response. What did you expect?

BOTH campaigns had better get their shit together and solve this before they lose MICHIGAN as well as Florida. I didn't "lose." The whole damned STATE lost. And as far as your condescending bullshit goes, you can take that down the road.

Go ahead. IGNORE the problem, ENJOY the result. I'm just reporting the news here; I'm not looking forward to it EITHER if you'd used the reading ability of a 4th grader and actually looked at what I'd said.

[Pawel K]

49. You really want to have a serious discussion about this?

Lets do it.

you said you started yelling about this in January, great. The DNC made this decision in August, they even gave Michigan 30 days to change their date. Why weren't you outraged then?

You say you want to solve this problem, great. I'm not against seating the MI deligates if it can be done fairly. I just don't see how in the world you can do it fairly when the only candidate that had her name on the ballot was the candidate you support. So what is your idea of a fair count in Michigan?

Edit: I guess you don't want to have a serious discussion about this since you added me to ignore. Classy of you, just put your ears in your fingers and scream at the top of your lungs "I CAN"T HEAR YOU!!!!!!".

[progressoid]

57. You seem to be fixated on NOT voting for a Democrat... care to clear up these opinions of yours...

"Then don't be shocked when we decide not to join your Private Party in November"

"Another good reason for a REAL 3rd Party. If I find one, I'll let you know."

And let's not forget the numerously posted and not-so-thinly-veiled threat, "WE WILL REMEMBER"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5339154#5339221

"Which is an excellent argument for starting a 3rd party...or even a 4th party. I'm with you. Where do I sign?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x69917#69918


Just in case you missed the URL, the is Democratic underground. Wanna take your ball and go home? Fine. There are plenty of third parties out there just waiting for you.

[spooky3]

24. great cartoon, thanks!

[SoCalDem]

34. as usual, a half-assed, lame attempt at humor

where none exists..

The correct cartoon would be where Bill's wife is at a table with Granholm, Dingle, Levin, Bill, & the Florida party bosses..they are figuring a way to disenfranchise the OTHER 48 states, by cutting in line and fulfilling Bill's wife's inevitability claim... her subsequent loss in Iowa (she planned on being 2nd to Edwards..she managed 3rd to Obama & Edwards) would be but a blip on her way to a landslide in NH, and another one a week later in Super Tuesday..and she would be parading around the country for months..smiling, waving her sceptre..resplendent in her tiara & yellow pantsuit..

But THAT cartoon would be hard to draw..

[Pawel K]

36. You threw too many facts out here

Clinton supporters don't think in such complicated terms, it's much easier to look at a cartoon to decide on what you should think. But good try anyway ;).

[Tyler Durden]

39. I'm so glad you enjoy being part of the problem.

The day after Election Day should be so joyous for you.

[Pawel K]

44. How about you respond to what she said instead of stalking me?

[SoCalDem]

46. She

:rofl:

[Pawel K]

47. My apologies, I was just about to correct that too :P

[Tyler Durden]

38. You know what?

You and the rest of your one-sided Obamaites ought to look closely. Neither Clinton NOR Obama are going to have a lot of friends here in Michigan in the fall.

You think I LIKE the idea of a McCain presidency? I don't. But your constant "HILLARYHILLARYHILLARY" MANTRA is getting on MY nerves as well.

I've started using HILLBAMA, because except for a couple of disgusting points, I SEE NO DIFFERENCE. BOTH of them are equally CENTRIST, and NEITHER of them is grown up enough to quit throwing brickbats. '

JUST LIKE THEIR FOLLOWERS.

[SoCalDem]

43. Not "Hillary" here.. Bill's wife

or Mrs Bill

I supported her in the beginning, but now she's proved to me that she's Mrs. Bill or Bill's wife.. This is just as much Bill's 3rd term, as W's was GHWB's 3rd&4th

[Tyler Durden]

50. We've agreed in the past. I have no desire to IGNORE you.

But this is about a real problem, and your incessant Anti-Clinton posting where the original post place equal blame is starting to go beyond the pale.

I have no real love for either camp, but I'm not going to expose myself to anymore partisan nonsense when I present a problem both campaigns had better deal with quickly or risk losing Michigan in the fall.

You might want to reconsider your next post.

[redqueen]

51. Hey...

I'd like your thoughts on this, if you please:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5352839&mesg_id=5352839

[dogday]

52. Tyler there are many of us who are so turned off

by both campaigns that we are trying to see the bigger picture and that is to beat that old Bastard McCain...

[Tyler Durden]

54. I've got NEWS for everyone.

The two campaigns have taken a "shoe-in" and turned it into "come from behind."

There's an article on NPR about the growing dissatisfaction with BOTH campaigns and candidates. Democrats have always needed HUGE turnouts, and focused elections. This pie-throwing contest has come very close to putting a semi-senile Republican asshole in the White House AGAIN.

It is far past time to FIX the problem. WE NEED MICHIGAN. There is no optimal solution without Michigan.