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Hillary blamed Obama while it was her own co-chair opposing the revote. Not honest of her.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:14 AM
Original message
Hillary blamed Obama while it was her own co-chair opposing the revote. Not honest of her.
Edited on Wed Apr-02-08 10:38 AM by madfloridian
The Clinton campaign has been blaming Obama for several things, but one really hit home with me. I call it two-faced, I call it telling a falsehood, I call it disengenuous. I can think of other names as well.

She blamed him for trying to get her out of the race, when just a day before he said she had every right and every reason to stay in the race. So that is another falsehood.

But the worst is saying he stopped the revote when all the while her campaign co-chair was PUBLICLY speaking against it.

Here is what the Clinton campaign is saying about Obama, and the media goes ahead with it just like it is true. It is not true. I have not heard a single media outlet say that her own national co-chair was totally against the revote in Florida. They let her get away with blaming Obama.

Clinton: Obama camp wants to end race

"There are some folks saying we ought to stop these elections," she said in Indianapolis, Indiana, on March 29 -- the audience booed the notion.

"I don't think we believe that in America," she said. "The more people that have a chance to vote, the better it is for our democracy."

As Pennsylvania's primary nears, Clinton's staffers have increasingly accused Barack Obama's campaign of trying to disenfranchise Democrats. On Monday, in a satellite interview with a television station in Montana, Clinton herself made the charge.

"My take on it is a lot of Sen. Obama's supporters want to end this race because they don't want people to keep voting," she told KTVQ in Billings, Montana. "That's just the opposite of what I believe. We want people to vote. I want the people of Montana to vote, don't you?"


Her campaign also accused Obama of "a "passive aggressive effort" to "disenfranchise" the Floridians who voted in the state's primary on January 29."

Clinton herself played along and said that "seating the Michigan and Florida delegations was a simple matter of civil rights, and that not counting the votes of people in Michigan would be "un-American."


Meanwhile back at the Florida Democratic ranch....her co-chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz was fighting the revote with every ounce of her strength.

Clinton's own co-chair was fighting hard against it while Clinton herself was blaming Obama. That's pretty bad stuff.

Here is a post with references to some of the words from the mouth of Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

Hillary co-chair fought the revote, not Obama

I'm glad that the party has reached the same conclusion that was reached by the congressional delegation a week ago," said U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Florida.

A supporter of Sen. Hillary Clinton, Wasserman Schultz had staunchly opposed a re-vote.

..."Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida, has called for a new Florida primary, although he thinks the national party should pay for it. But Florida Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz says another election would be too expensive."

...."The potential of a do-over is slim to none," said Wasserman Schultz, a national co-chair of Clinton's campaign. "The cost of a do-over is beyond reach. A do-over would be unfair. We still have nerves that are very raw from the 2000 recount in Florida."


Obama did not do it. The Clinton campaign just made that up.

Here are more words from Debbie Wasserman Schultz...her own words.

More from Wasserman Schultz:

"“Let me assure you, there might seemingly be increasing talk of a do-over. But there is not realistic talk about a do-over,” Wasserman Schultz said. “A do-over is unworkable, too expensive, unfair and not logistically possible in a state our size this late in the game.”

“From all the people that I’m hearing from, on all the different sides, there does not appear to be an appetite for a new election. And there doesn’t appear to be any way to pay for it either,” Wexler said.

Wasserman Schultz, a Weston Democrat is a national co-chairwoman of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign."
http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/mar/07/no-democratic-do-over-mahoney-others-are-saying/


More from Debbie. Did I say the Clinton campaign was blaming Obama?

""It was clear that a mail-in was not going to work. It was too risky. You don't want to start experimenting with a new voting method when the stakes are as high as a presidential election," said Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz. "There were a variety of major problems with it."

Wasserman Schultz said that the congressional delegation is talking with the DNC and both campaigns to find another solution to seating Florida's delegates, including an idea that would take into account the January vote among other factors.

"Now we have to turn our focus to a solution that will make sure the Democratic nominee is selected by voters from all 50 states," she said.

http://wjz.com/xcampaign08/florida.primary.failed.2.679049.html


More from Debbie's own mouth.

"There might seemingly be increasing talk of a do-over. But there is not realistic talk about a do-over," said U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Weston. "A do-over is unworkable, too expensive, unfair and not logistically possible in a state our size this late in the game."

Wasserman Schultz is a national co-chairwoman of Hillary Clinton's campaign.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-flbprimary0307pnmar07,0,4649936.story


Ding Ding Ding, Debbie told it like it was.

And the Clinton campaign turned around and blamed Obama.






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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. I just knew you were going to write a post like this.
When reading the other one on GDP today, I thought to myself, "Oh, my, can't wait to read madfloridian's take on this."

;-)

Thank you for yet another truth-to-power smackdown post, madfloridian! You are a DU Treasure.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. They will just post on this thread telling me I am lying...yet I quote Debbie's words
They say her words don't matter, that they don't trust my journal.

One keeps referring to someone who keeps quoting their journal like it was a lie or something.

I am being ganged up on and I can do nothing.

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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. I've got your back, darlin'.
Some people just can't let go of talking points. You can't let it bother you.

Keep giving them the truth and let them think it's hell. You've always been the authority on this topic in these forums, and what's really pissing people off is that they know you're right but the truth does not fit into their narrative arc.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Thanks. Did you see that thread practically calling me out as a liar?
There is nothing I can do about it.

I will just keep posting Debbie's own words until they sink in, I guess.

It hurts to see DU become a place where people can just post anything and it sticks.

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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
88. ganging up
I know it feels overwhelming sometimes, but please keep fighting. They attack you because they are scared. When you present them with cold hard facts and irrefutable logic (and I love your posts precisely because you do those things so well) all they can do is try to drown you out by screaming or to try to attack until you go away.

So please, don't give in to them. If they make ridiculous claims, point out the ridiculousness. There are plenty here on your side who will defend you.

I tend to think of it as walking through a swarm of mosquitoes. It's easy, almost effortless, to swat away individual mosquitoes, but there seems to be an unlimited supply of them. You can either keep swatting or just shrug and let them bite you. Either way, they're going to annoy you, but swatting them may at least make you feel a little better. Some of the wiser ones may choose not to mess with you if they see you do it enough times.

Of course I'm not nearly as prolific as you are. It may very well weigh heavier on you. If that's the case, a day away from DU would probably do you a lot of good. We'll try not to lose the fight while you're away.
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
48. I agree whole-heartedly. You are both terrific!! Thanks for telling it straight.
There is just so much junk to wade through, but when I see either of your names, I know I can
click on the post and learn something.


:hi: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :hi:
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flor de jasmim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. Maybe this plus certain other diaries should be sent to SD's?
Of course, unless they have been away on vacation in some remote area they should be aware of this and other things (caucus disruptions, the IMPLICATIONS of the Bosnia snafu, etc. etc.).

Has anyone had any luck reaching their SDs?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. None of them would believe the falsehoods being spread.
I doubt they expect it of one of our candidates. I never expected it from the Clintons whom I adored through the 90s. I feel disheartened by it.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. Great work, mad. Have you sent this to TPM or Sirota? n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
6. She must really live in that "campaign bubble" Jay Bookman mentioned.
If she was not even aware of what her campaign co-chair was doing, it must be pretty insulated in that bubble.

There are posts here calling me out as someone who lies, refers to her own journal, and uses Republican talking points. I can do nothing about it but keep posting the words of the people involved.

Jay Bookman, AJC: "Clinton suffers ‘campaign bubble’ syndrome"

"Working very long hours side by side with fellow believers in the cause, otherwise sane people can begin to lose a sense of perspective. An “us against the world” psychology begins to take hold, and over time their counterparts in the opposing campaign —- people who in most respects are very much like themselves —- come to seem the very embodiment of evil. For those caught up in the struggle, the outside world falls away to the point that their entire lives and being are wrapped up in the campaign. And things that can seem small and insignificant to an outsider tend to get blown out of proportion by people living inside that little world.

If you pay any attention at all to politics, you’ve seen examples for yourself. When you see a campaign spokesman —- for example, James Carville —- overreact to some minor insult or misstatement by the other side, it’s easy to dismiss the outrage as calculated spin. But often, that’s not what’s happening. It is instead an expression of very real emotion, generated by living too long in the surreal bubble that a campaign often becomes."


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ORDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
7. Hillary NEVER supported a re-vote in MI or FL, she just wanted to
keep up the uncertainty of what would happen with those delegates so she could patch up her illusion that she had some path to the nomination. That's why she supported the MI plan that would disenfranchise Dems who had voted while allowing GOP voters to participate. She made sure that whatever re-vote proposal was out there would be unacceptable to Obama on principle so she could blame him for blocking the re-vote. The day either MI or FL had ratified a plan those votes/delegates would have vanished from the totals, until the re-vote. That would have made her gap even larger. She is pulling the wool over everyone's eyes with her faux concern for MI and FL.

:dem:
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. That's exactly right! It's the vagueness and uncertainty.
The unknown outcome of a FL/MI seating or revote is what's kept her campaign and her talking points alive. Her campaign didn't want a revote any more than they wanted the matter decided once and for all. Once the ambiguity ends, the math becomes crystal clear, and her biggest talking point goes spinning down the bunny hole.
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
8. ". . .they don't want people to keep voting. . ."
Smacks of utter desperation really
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
9. You mean they're lying?
Sigh. Who in hell needs this? Haven't we had enough of this the past 8 years?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Careful now... don't make me vote for McCain!
Don't you see what you're doing?

Stop being so mean!
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
30. "Hangs head shamefully"...
:( ;)
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
10. kicking for truth
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks again, mad!
I hope the MSM gets ahold of this so the Clinton camp quits spreading it's lies!
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. The MSM HAS it already:
in the bowels of their recent archives:


Florida's Democrats had been weighing several options for a re-vote, including a possible mail-in primary to be held before the DNC's June 10 deadline.

"I'm glad that the party has reached the same conclusion that was reached by the congressional delegation a week ago," said U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Florida.

A supporter of Clinton, Wasserman Schultz had staunchly opposed a re-vote.

She said she would consider a proposal that would allow the full delegation to weigh in at the convention, but she wants each delegate to have only half a vote.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/17/florida.primary.decision/
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
33. And yet Rendell is able to go around the cable news channels and say
Obama blocked FL's revote? x(
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. Rendell said Obama blocked it?
They don't care about truth, do they.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. It was on Morning Joe the other morning
Obama blocked Florida, Obama blocked Michigan :crazy: and not a single commentator questioned him.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. The media allows lies like that.
They never question.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Keeps the race going - otherwise they'd be bored until August n/t
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
68. no, they don't. Honest journalism went out the window a long time ago.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #68
99. Honest means nothing anymore.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
14. Kick and recommend!
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
15. Hillary not honest? Shocked, I'm shocked I tell ya
Edited on Wed Apr-02-08 10:41 AM by WillYourVoteBCounted
Maybe it was the sniper fire that caused her to be confused.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
16. what i find interesting
is that everyone on this board could have read what was happening in florida because you posted the whole story from start to finish. did`t the clinton supporters read what you were posting? or it did`t matter until hillary lost iowa and never regained the lead. blaming the messenger is a sure sign of a loser.

that is clear is that florida and michigan went against the rules . the rules cannot be changed during the game to suit the losing side. do we want someone in the whitehouse that can not follow the rules? i think we do not.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
17. Kickin and
bless you for the hard work you do on this subject. Is there audio of some of this. If so, it'd be a great campaign ad, juxtaposing Hillary and Debbie to prove the point.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:42 AM
Original message
Clinton is a Pathological Liar... here's the proof:
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
18. You changed your story! You say she "opposed" it now, instead of "stopped the revote"
Why did you decide to change your story?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Take your effing choice. Either or both. Debbie fought it all the way.
Loudly and publicly. Keep on calling me out, and someday someone will notice.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. You oppose Clinton. That doesn't mean you've stopped Clinton.
Words matter. To quote Deval Patrick.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Take your pick.
.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
22. Exactly right. From this point on, we have to assume everything coming
out of the Hillary campaign are lies. Total lies.

Also per CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/17/florida.primary.decision/

Florida's Democrats had been weighing several options for a re-vote, including a possible mail-in primary to be held before the DNC's June 10 deadline.

"I'm glad that the party has reached the same conclusion that was reached by the congressional delegation a week ago," said U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Florida.

A supporter of Clinton, Wasserman Schultz had staunchly opposed a re-vote.

She said she would consider a proposal that would allow the full delegation to weigh in at the convention, but she wants each delegate to have only half a vote.
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SeaLyons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
23. Your post is taken out of contest....
here is more:

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz says Florida primary spat puts presidential election at risk
Dispute over primary still unresolved
By Anthony Man | Political Writer
March 19, 2008
Article tools
E-mail Share
Digg Del.icio.us Facebook Fark Google Newsvine Reddit Yahoo Print Reprints Post comment Text size: A leading Broward Democrat warned Tuesday that the party risks losing Florida in the fall — and because of it the presidential election — if it can't come to a peaceful resolution to the mess surrounding the Jan. 29 primary and the state's delegates.

Failure to solve the delegate problem in a way that satisfies all sides, U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz said, would send the message to Democrats across the state that the party doesn't care about their votes.

"We cannot undermine the confidence of Florida's voters," she said.

The Weston Democrat is a national co-chairwoman of Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign but said her concern applies if Barack Obama wins the nomination.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/topic/politics/debbie-wasserman-schultz-PEPLT005868.topic
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Your link sucks.
It's a list of Wasserman-Schultz articles. In no way does your post undo a thing that madfloridian wrote, above. It's just Debbie spinning and spewing.

This is the same Wasserman-Schultz who refuses to campaign for newbie Democratic candidates challenging the seats of her Republican friends, right?
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SeaLyons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. What a load of crap...
not worth arguing over. Everyone knows Obama doesn't want do-overs.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. Apparently, about three people "know" that...
... and the rest of us are interested in facts and truth vs. phantom narrative arcs.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #25
35. You got me beat - I was still trying to figure out what 'out of contest' meant
:shrug:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Spelling is not a requirement for posting stuff here.
:hi:
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SeaLyons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #37
46. When all else fails, you can always point out
spelling errors. Your attention to detail is admirable.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #46
55. You as much as discredited my long post with many links.
So I am not concerned about how you spell....nothing much matters here anymore anyway.

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SeaLyons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. ...
because your post was wrong, but I agree with you, nothing really matters on DU anymore. You support Obama, I support Clinton, and because of the hateful division that's been created on this board, no one can hear the other...

please - no hard feelings.

:pals:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Okay, please give details on how my post is wrong. You accuse, prove it.
If you accuse, then prove it.

That is why there are hard feelings. The loose way truth is being used.

You accused, now prove.
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SeaLyons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. There is nothing to prove here...
Edited on Wed Apr-02-08 02:05 PM by cricket08
the fact is, all your posts simply state that Wasserman was against a re-vote, and that it is she and she alone that didn't want the a re-vote and the Fl delegates seated, and that Clinton is blaming it all on Obama. You have to know that is not the case. Clinton has publicly stated the MI and FL delegates have to be seated. Has Obama done that? Of course not. It's not beneficial to him. Yes, it's beneficial to Clinton, and damn right, she wants it done. Obama's stance on the situation has has been to passive aggressively state "they intend to follow the rules". Now, you know what I'm saying is true.

You are trying to call Clinton out on blaming Obama for something her camp did, and it's not true.

That's all I have to say on the matter.

Peace.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. That is not sufficient.
If you accuse someone of not telling the truth, you need to have more ammo than that.
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ExPatLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #59
93. Perhaps he just doesn't want to be a hypocrite.
""Clinton has publicly stated the MI and FL delegates have to be seated. Has Obama done that? Of course not.""

Both originally signed documents stating that they would not take part in the seating of delegates from MI or FL.

Now Clinton is backpedaling and reneging on her word. And you are upset only that Obama will not follow her lead and become a hypocrite as well?

Clinton was all for ousting FL and MI from the primaries until after it became clear that she would not roll through the primary. That is my take. But the simple fact is that, regardless of why, she did sign on to follow the ruling and now is making a big stink against her own former position, trusting that people will forget the signed document proving her a hypocrite. Many have. Not me.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. My post is its own context. Hillary blames Obama for what her chair opposed and fought.
I made my own context when I posted it with Debbie's own words.

The Clinton campaign is not telling the truth. That is becoming the context of all of it.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Wonderful post, cricket08! Thank you for finding such a truthful story to share!
Edited on Wed Apr-02-08 10:56 AM by MethuenProgressive
:yourock:
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SeaLyons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. Thanks....
get's pretty discouraging around here, huh?

I think :yourock: too!!

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
32. I was right. I knew it would never matter that Hillary wasn't honest.
The same ones would keep on defending her.

No matter what.

Even with proof that she was not being honest....it just doesn't matter.

:shrug:
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #32
58. Well, yeah!
We would all drown in a bucket of spit if you posted something nice about Hillary. Of course we are going to continue to defend her, just as you do for Glitterbama. Whodathunkit?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. I did not chose a candidate until she said FL delegates should be seated.
That was a childish statement about a bucket of spit.
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LowerManhattanite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
41. K&R!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
42. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. You called me dishonest? You said I am a Republican operative?
I guess that would not be a personal attack, or would it?

I have been called a lot of things here.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
45. Hillary's tactics are even making Markos angry. His post today is powerful.
He has never taken such a strong stance for Dean on this issue, so he must now see the light. He refers at first to Nagourney's NYT hit piece on Dean. Then he branches out.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/2/1481/51962/494/488701

"Dean has been very clear about Michigan and Florida: the rules are the rules. That doesn't make the Clinton partisans happy, but that's not from a lack of leadership on it, but because of his leadership on fighting for the rules that the party agreed on. Let's not forget that Clinton pitbull Harold Ickes was on the committee that voted for the sanctions.

As for "tone", does anyone really think that any outsider can impose his or her will on the campaigns? What was he supposed to do, kidnap Mark Penn as he urged the Clinton campaign to go negative and lock him away in some dungeon in the basement of DNC headquarters?"

..."The chairman of the Florida Democratic Party, Karen Thurman, said she could not recall the last time Mr. Dean had called her to try work out the dispute. She and other Florida Democrats are to meet with Mr. Dean on Wednesday to try to persuade him to agree to a compromise.

Dean made the DNC's position very clear to her before the primaries started. She ignored him while Florida Democrats openly mocked him. Now she wants him to get her out of her own mess? Hilarious."

You have to be a frakin' moron to pretend Dean has shown no leadership. So here it is, in bullet points for the addled and their journalist friends:

Florida and Michigan violated DNC rules. Their contests don't matter. The DNC rules committee can re-evaluate at the appropriate time.

Florida and Michigan are more than free to hold sanctioned contests if they want.

Dean thinks the process should play out.


And once the final contest is in the books, in June, the super delegates should declare their preferences. I didn't have to do research to jot those three bullet points down. They are self-evident and have been repeated a billion times in every interview Dean does."



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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Wow. kos *still* hates Hillary? That's like... news to you?
:hi:
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. No news is good news.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. No, Kos at first took the side of FL and MI.
He is tired of the lies and spin.

I don't know how he felt about Clinton at first. I don't think he cared.

I didn't either, at first. Now I care since I have seen this side of her.

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Asgaya Dihi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
51. Anyone who scoffs at citizen journalism
obviously hasn't been reading your work.

Nice job.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. I posted it again because of a counter post implying I was lying.
And I simply won't take that lying down. It took nerve for her campaign to blame Obama when her own national co-chair was pushing hard against it...even standing up to Bill Nelson on it.

I hated to post again....but it so irritated me.

Thanks for the nice words.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
52. shoudn't someone from the Obama campaign put her straight
steamroll
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
54. K&R
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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
62. Funny to think that Hillary supporters refuse to notice her consistent lies...very strange to me.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
63. Here's an email from Hillary today on this same topic.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
64. Look at how the OP distorts:
The first comment was with regards to the Obama camp (particularly his endorsers) calling for Hillary to quit the race.

The *rest of the quotes in the article* refer to *uncited claims* that Clinton was blaming Obama for the FL revote not happening.

Fact is Obama stopped MI from revoting, not FL.

But the OP distorts the events and claims and fails to cite where the Clinton camp blamed Obama for stopping the FL revote.

These distortions are verging on outright lies, but this time I'll give the OP the benefit of the doubt and just assume they forgot to actually cite where the Clinton campaign claimed that Obama stopped the FL revote.

:hi:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. The quotes are Wasserman Schultz's own words, Hillary's own words
and Phil Singer's own words.

You have have been accusing me of this stuff so long. I don't see how you get away with it.

I hope others see what you are doing.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #64
70. You are the 4th today to accuse me of not telling the truth.
That is a personal attack, meant to discredit me.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. You said: "These distortions are verging on outright lies"
I don't know how you get away with doing that. I will keep reminding you that you are again calling me a liar when I am posting the words from people's mouths.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #64
74. Since I used only people's own words...I hope some will defend me
when you say I am lying.

I would hope, but I doubt.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #74
85. I'll defend you
I think most of us consider the source when it comes to the one who says you are lying. Most of us very much appreciate all the work you've done in regards to the Florida situation.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. Please do! I'm trying to figure out what I said wrong.
I didn't get a real response to my comments. I mean I thought I framed the distortions fine, don't you?
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #86
92. Are you trying to argue that Clinton is not blaming Obama?
Is that your argument?

You don't think Clinton is trying to blame Obama for FL?

Is this your HONEST point of view?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #92
101. I can't figure it out.
:shrug:
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #101
103. I think it's getting to the point where people disagree to be disagreeable.
That's all I can figure.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #103
105. I see it is ok now to say that to people.
Nothing done about it. Once I used the word lie....and I was deleted promptly.

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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #105
106. It seems to be the same few folks that are running around doing that.
I've seen a lot of pretty bad insults here lately.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #64
77. "These distortions are verging on outright lies"
You are still being able to do that to me.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #64
79. "The *rest of the quotes in the article* refer to *uncited claims*
It is amazing what you have done in that post. You have accused me of everything but the kitchen sink.

I will keep checking back for an apology, quite frankly I have had it with being accused of not telling the truth.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. Why apologize?
You haven't shown where I was wrong, but I showed where you were. Simple.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. Then I will keep checking back.
To see what happens.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #64
84. I will check tomorrow.
Just to see if it is still there saying I lied.

I hate that, will fight it from now on.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #64
95. I see you are still able to say I "distort" and "border on lies."
Even though their own words are there.

It is truly amazing.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
65. Keep posting the truth, Mad!
:yourock:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Thanks for that.
And you rock more, for sure.

:hi:
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
67. K&R. (nt)
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
72. Most posts here are angry
yours are informatively angry. I appreciate that distinction very much. Thank you for your participation.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. If you are not angry then you are not aware that you are being lied to..
and manipulated by a campaign of the wife of a former president.

Yes, I am angry.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
75. i saw her on tv a few weeks ago saying everything was Dean's fault
i didn't know at the time she supported Clinton. but it all makes sense now.
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New Dawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
76. K&R
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
78. kick.
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skyounkin Donating Member (722 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
82. K/R
I love the argument by some people here- "You're lying." but then when asked to prove it- it's "nothing to prove."

Jesus.

My only advice to deal with these people is to use your ignore button Mad. They know they are getting under your skin with the "liar" crap- they just want to get their jollies out now pissing you off. They can't dispute you with facts, so they distort your facts.

Turn your greatest strength into a weakness......Hmmmmmmmm..........sounds like something a little troll would do.....or rove.

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
83. The Clintons have been entirely disingenuous about FL and MI.
And everybody knows it.

Thanks for keeping 'em honest, mf.
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
87. That's what happens when you play the "blame game" and lie so much.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
89. WHY??
Do you continue to lIE??? Flat out LIE! Obama and his attorney's STOPPED the revotes in FL and MI! Obamam has a history..pattern of using the legal system to win...see Chicago Times report on this.



stop the lies and KNOW your Obama is a know disruptor.
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AlabamaBrightBlueDot Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
90. The only thing Hillary and honesty have in common is...
Both words start with an "H" and have seven letters.

Thanks for the post.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
91. Some call it Rove Tactics. I just call it Clinton Tactics. Dirty, behind the back, double dealing.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
94. kicking it back to the top.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
96. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours
Damn.

:kick:
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
97. the truth can't be diminished by repetition
kicked
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #97
98. Truth is diminished here at this forum now.
There is so much disinformation wrapped up as another truth, that it is impossible for the ones who are in charge here to get through the layers and down to what is real.

It is sad.
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. Hang in there MF
MP and other flamefest seekers are dying inside seeing their serial liar (Hillary) go down in flames, and they simply cannot handle the truth. Soon Hillary will concede to her inevitable defeat and they will be retreat from their wretched attacks, and vote for Obama in November. Cheers.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. Thanks...your sigline says it all.
Love the picture.

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ralbertson Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
104. Thursday night kick

I'm just sayin', is all.

Kudos. Thanks for all the top-notch OP's.





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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
107. Kick
:kick:
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