Clinton supporters! Don't you see what you're doing?!

[redqueen]

Every time you ignore a lie from Clinton, and prefer to act as if any lie she tells, no matter how self-serving or blatant, is something we should just accept because "they all do it", you are driving voters away. Trust me when I say that many, many people do not treat all lies as equal, and will see her REPEATED claim of being under the threat of sniper fire as not only a run-of-the-mill political fudging of the truth, but an attempt to claim valor for something she did not do. This will KILL US in the GE against McCain. That's just ONE example of a lie... there's also the claim that it was Obama who was trying to prevent people from voting... how dumb does she think we are?! When you back her up in her treatment of voters as people who aren't worth dealing with AS ADULTS, you are sending a message that it doesn't matter... and trust me, many people think it does, and they will vote for McCain if she is the nominee!

Every time you ignore her secrecy about her past, you are acting like Republicans. Obama has disclosed his past tax returns... why is Clinton hiding them? Don't you see that by refusing to meaningfully address the very serious issue of secrecy (especially after 8 years of the most secretive executive branch ever), that you are driving away new voters, who are not going to be so enthusiastic about supporting someone who exhibits those same traits?

Every time you label Obama's supporters (and he has FAR more than she does) as "cultists" or babies or elitists or the lazy youth or easy-to-mislead people who only want free ponies... you're driving away the very new voters this party so desperately needs. These are the voters that the Dem party drove away during Clinton's administration. The ones that left after they felt they were cheated by an administration that not only passed but PUSHED NAFTA... that pushed for MFN status for China... that stymied the investigations into scandals of the previous Bush administration... that didn't give us CAFE standards... that didn't give us back our Fairness Doctrine. Our party suffered, but because so many people had money... sadly... many didn't even notice. Don't get me wrong, I give Clinton his due. He did the best he could in those years he had to deal with a republican congress. But he had two full years of a Dem congress, and we have very little to show for that.

Please, think about what you're doing. Do you really want to chase away all the energized, optimistic supporters who are obviously willing to work so hard, and give so much, to help this party and this country?

As the weeks pass, please think about my words, and measure what you say to people here. Because as we all know, nothing impacts a person's choice more than what people say on message boards.

Careful what you say. Cause if you say things that I think aren't fair, then you'll be making me vote for McCain. Seriously. I really mean that. And I'm not the only one who feels this way. There are lots of people that think this way. Trust me, I know.

:sarcasm:

[Debi]

1. newbie...troll...freeper....

:yourock:

[redqueen]

3. Don't make me vote for McCain!

Cause I'll do it! Series!

I've been a Yellow Dog all my life, but y'all had to be so mean! And what else could be expected to shake someone from their obviously very deeply and sincerely held political beliefs than meanies on a message board? Series... think about it.

[Debi]

7. *snark* you've posted this so many times today you need to make it your sig line! n/t

[redqueen]

10. It absolutely kills me

that people take that crap seriously.

Really?

REALLY?

[The Doctor.]

79. So all the lying is ok?

Usually when people criticize someone for lying, they're being serious.

You think the lying is ok? Or were you saying that people who don't like the lying are just whining?

Ok, I had to re-read it a couple times. I don't take anyone seriously who thinks that everyone is that sensitive. Shoots both ways. No one needs the handful of douchebags that won't vote because they were offended.

[redqueen]

96. No.

When I said "that crap" I meant all the achy breaky, "I'm just not gonna vote! Or I'll vote for McCain! Really! And y'all made me do it!" crap.

:)

[The Doctor.]

135. Right, I got that.

The cooler heads are gonna have their work cut out for them nonetheless.

[ClassWarrior]

21. Is this your new motto?

:rofl:

NGU.

[redqueen]

28. Yes, actually.

I have decided that it is.

:7

[papau]

25. Sad - I believe you really mean what you wrote - and if there is no fusion ticket - you will get McC

[redqueen]

27. I can't say what I want to say.

But honestly, there's no point anyway... so... have a nice day.

:hi:

[Tellurian]

122. Fantasy threads like yours belong in GD.. NOT here! eom

[redqueen]

130. Fantasy threads?

:wtf:

[FatDave]

44. Fusion ticket?

Does that mean you've finally abandoned hope for winning the nomination?

[peace frog]

63. Fat fucking chance of that

but good one nevertheless. :thumbsup:

[Jed Dilligan]

2. Kick

[redqueen]

39. Thanks.

:P

[lumberjack_jeff]

4. We Hillary supporters share a great deal in common with you Obama supporters

I know that you're feeling frustrated that your candidate is behind, I understand how that feels. I also know that some of the zeal that Hillary's more energized supporters display can be somewhat offputting. All that trust in "God, destiny and providence" may sound messianic. Please just remember that Hillary's supporters truly believe that she has the right policy answers. Those of you who are considering not voting in the general or worse, voting for McCain, I hope you reconsider because of the great and profound connection we have as fellow democrats.

See? You can do it! I've just showed you how.

Or Obama supporters can continue to use the methods they're currently using. Although, I'm pretty sure I know how that'll turn out.

[redqueen]

6. Did you miss the sarcasm tag?

[lumberjack_jeff]

11. Yes, I'm pretty sure you did.

Although, I see Obama posts like that all. the. time. Really.

[redqueen]

13. Uh...

okay?

[rch35]

78. That makes no sense. the OP asked if YOU missed the sarcasm tag.

Of course THEY know its there so your response of "Yes I'm pretty sure you did" makes absolutely no sense whatsover.

[kwenu]

18. I think that you should vote for Hillary in your primary race and those of us

who like Obama's policy answers and what he offers should vote for him in our primary races. That's how it works. I don't think I should be made at you because you honestly like Hillary though and vice-versa.

[guyanakoolaid]

80. Duck! ---------------------------> SNIPER!

[meow mix]

5. Engage the Highly-Selective Outrage Engines - Launch!

:woohoo:

[Debi]

8. That offends me

x(

[redqueen]

15. See! I bet you're about ready to switch to McCain! Right?

I told you!

This is very series!

[Debi]

20. Mercer

(all three)

:patriot:

[Catherine Vincent]

9. No copycat threads in GD-P. nt

[redqueen]

12. I'm feeling it... urge. to. vote. for. McCain. RISING!

[JVS]

26. Oh NOES!

[John Q. Citizen]

75. Bad McCain! Bad! Get thee behind me, Sidney!

[MadBadger]

14. This thread is in the present, the other is in the past tense

So its not a copycat lol.

[HughBeaumont]

16. Teh R0xxx0rz!

But it's "HUR TURN"!

[LowerManhattanite]

17. Mule kicked! n/t

[Life Long Dem]

19. Think back to the denial that there are no WMD's in Iraq from the right.

It took forever before the right admitted this lie from Bush. This is what Hillary supporters are doing and remind me of. Pathetic isn't it?

[redqueen]

22. You just reminded me of her backing up the WH lies

on some talk show. About how Saddam was a threat.

[redqueen]

23. Dammit.

I was happy there for a few minutes with the snark and nonsense.

*sigh*

[berni_mccoy]

24. K&R!

[redqueen]

29. .

:)

[democrattotheend]

30. I don't think it's their defense of Hillary that's damaging.

It's the way they insult Obama's supporters, calling us "sheeple" and "cultists" and "latte-sipping trust fund babies". As a young person, I am tired of the countless insults on people my age from Clinton supporters who act like we are just not mature enough to choose a candidate logically. If age were an indicator of ability to select a candidate rationally, why did every age group above 30 vote for Bush in 2004? 18-29 year olds are the only age group that voted for Kerry.

[redqueen]

31. Yup.

It's nice when a candidate or her surrogates insults supporters, isn't it?

Real classy.

[jgraz]

33. Well, in fairness, Obama supporters have been acting pretty cult-like

Remember when we all posted those creepy poems and then left in unison for our own echo-chamber forum?


Oh wait...

[Major Hogwash]

34. Yeah, well, at least we don't brag about having to "duck sniper fire"!!

In case you didn't see it today on the news, Bubba blew up at a meeting he had with some super delegates. Bubba was so hot, he turned red in the face. Bubba claimed that Hillary was behind because "the media was being hard on her."

It's pretty difficult not to be hard on someone who lies about having to "duck sniper fire."

That lie will never die.
Hillary needs to go as soon as possible, if not sooner.

[hell-bent]

64. Is the lie about not being in the church when Wright

made those inflammatory statements a little lie or a big whopper? Or, how about his claim that the Kennedys were responsible for bringing over his parents from Africa? Big lie? Or lies that will never die? Professor at U of Chicago? Or just a lecturer? He eventually removed that claim from his website. Lies? How can Americans elect a person that lies about his credentials?:thumbsdown:

[Major Hogwash]

67. What do you care? You're going to hell anyway!!

For supporting Hillary!

LoL

[druidity33]

88. actually

he wasn't at that church service. And he WAS a Professor. And who cares how his parents got here. Ever think he repeated a story told to him BY his parents?

research your claims please....

[redqueen]

36. *snort*

[Danger Mouse]

46. I am also sick of the generational insults that some of Clinton's supporters have used...

and continue to use at every available opportunity.

[Major Hogwash]

68. Some of them have even said they would vote for the Depends candidate, McCain!

When SNL found out about McCain becoming the nominee, they got their old "Oops, I crapped my pants" commercial out of the vault.

LoL

[Rhiannon12866]

83. I remember that one, LOL. And it was the same way in 2004,

when supporters of certain candidates said that they'd vote for Bush*, if their candidate didn't get the nomination. It depressed me at the time, but I've gotten used to it. *sigh* It gets crazy here during the primaries...:crazy:

[cbaker3122]

86. I know why you're sick of it....

because it "hits a little too close to home" if you know what I mean.

[jgraz]

32. Classic -- K&R

:rofl:

[redqueen]

35. Thank ya.

I kinda liked it m'self. :P

[blm]

37. My applause meter went WAY HIGH, rq.

.

[redqueen]

38. Thank you!

I remember going rounds with you last time around... I like & respect you a lot, blm. :hug:

[Swamp Rat]

40. "they all do it" = Bandwagon Fallacy

FYI: "Everybody does it" was a justification for slavery.

[redqueen]

41. Last-ditch defense.

And sorely lacking in nuance. :)

[Swamp Rat]

42. I thought the last-ditch defense was ad hominem?

Then they break your neck. :D

[redqueen]

43. Ahahaha... that is so wrong!

[Danger Mouse]

45. Excellent post, K and R.

:hi:

[redqueen]

47. Thank you!

:hi:

[Danger Mouse]

50. I appreciated the counter to...a certain other idiotic thread my eyes had the misfortune...

of being blighted with earlier.
:pals:

[hisownpetard]

48. Redundant but satisfying 45th K&R!

[redqueen]

49. It helps get it higher on the home page.

And for that, I thank you. :)

Goodness knows the other one stayed up there long enough! :P

[Kurovski]

51. K&R for your tribute to the "nyah, nyah-nyah, nyah, nyah" voters.

You get the award in the "removed nose to spite my face category".

:D

[BootinUp]

52. You'll notice, I took neither your thread nor the other

that you parodied, seriously.

[tblue]

53. "nothing impacts a person's choice more than what people say on message boards" LOL!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

54. K and R - aroonie!

[SunsetDreams]

55. K&R :) well said

[indimuse]

56. obama barack...is the WORST

LIAR! COW!

[redqueen]

97. He's the worst LIAR? The worst COW?

Or are you calling ME a liar and a cow?

WTF are you talking about?

:crazy:

[northzax]

57. oh come on, redqueen, even for a gooner, this is awful

for all the reasons to support obama, don't go talking about the things he won't do. NAFTA is here to stay (and frankly, it helps obama's base much more than Hillary's) the fairness doctrine ain't coming back, there's no reason I think obama will push for higher CAFE standards than Hillary, or more equal citizenship for gbtl Americans, or more progressive taxation, or even a faster end to the Iraq debacle. Nothing he has said or done can be reasonably interpreted to think he will. Don't get everyone's dander up expecting that sort of change, it's not coming, and you know it.

[redqueen]

98. When I mentioned NAFTA, CAFE, and the FD...

I was just listing a few reasons why some progressives weren't happy with the Clinton administration.

[northzax]

128. but there's no evidence that an Obama administration

will be any different on those concepts, right? so why get people excited about them when they will just feel like he pulled the old bait and switch, (when honestly, he hasn't really said anything on those issues of serious note)

[redqueen]

129. Because I'm not a psychic, nor do I pretend to be?

Seriously... I don't know what he'll do, and neither does anyone else.

But what I said in the OP is historical fact.

And given Hillary's propensity to back up WH lies... waffle on torture... let's just say I don't need a gurantee that Obama will be more progressive in order to decide to support him.

[Scurrilous]

58. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Kurovski]

59. Kick. (nt)

[polichick]

60. You're so bad, you're good. :)

[IsItJustMe]

61. K & R You said it all.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MessiahRp]

65. I'm assuming you mean the 'voting for McCain' thing was the sarcasm

Since this line:

"Every time you ignore a lie from Clinton, and prefer to act as if any lie she tells, no matter how self-serving or blatant, is something we should just accept because "they all do it", you are driving voters away."

is 100% true. I have friends that are non-political and they absolutely wonder how anybody can support someone who has been caught lying so frequently or blatantly and think it reflects poorly on Democrats that they, supposedly the party of better morals than the one of Bush, would ever support such a negative campaigner. They can't believe the lies, smears or depths of which she'll crawl to win nor her willingness to destroy the party over her own ego.

And I try to tell them, the Clintons, the DLCers they are part of the big tent by name only. It's always about them and their corporate rich donors or lobbyist friends that they care about. The people that vote for them are the suckers. The suckers who lost their jobs to NAFTA, lost government help to Welfare Reform, lost their sons and daughters to the Iraq War, lost a fair voice in the media thanks to media consolidation... lost all to Clinton (Bill and Hillary) policies. Good though that war profiteers and rich people who hate Welfare and corporations who fucked all the people who lost their jobs just so they could pay slave labor in other countries and expand CEO profits made out great.

I can't wait for this Bush-Clinton legacy to end. It can't happen soon enough in my eyes.

Rp

[redqueen]

99. Some of it wasn't sarcasm.

:hi:

[Kurovski]

66. Kick. (nt)

[Major Hogwash]

69. Wait a minute . . . we're getting free ponies?! That's just great!!

Where the hell am I going to keep him? I have a teeny, tiny backyard!

Damn you Obama!
*shakes fist at heaven as I'm leaning back in my chair, ala John Stewart*

[merh]

70. K&R

:thumbsup:

[Symarip]

71. Redqueen

Your insistent support of Arsenal and bad mouthing of other EPL teams has forced me to support Manchester United. Can't you see what you've done???? I'm not the only one that feels that way. You give Arsenal a bad name when normally, I'd *totally* be rooting for them. Think about what you're doing. You're going to cause the Red Devils to win and you'll have no one to blame but yourself.

[redqueen]

100. Nooooooo... don't you blame me for that!

Ronaldo isn't human, therefore they are cheating.

As for Arsenal, blame Wenger for not getting someone new to shore up the back!

[Kurovski]

72. Kick. (nt)

[Kurovski]

73. Kick. (nt)

[FogerRox]

74. This is one of the stupiest diarys I have ever seen, it makes me puke

You are so stupid to vote for that reason, what an ass hat. So what if your crazy neighbor starts pushing McCain on you.... then you'll have to vote for Bob Bahr ?


I wanted Al Gore to run, because he "gets it". Well that didnt work out, so I back Edwards, and Edwards gets it too. But he dropped out. Ya know what ? I'm going to vote for who gets it.

[Thickasabrick]

77. k&r

[redqueen]

101. No, my friend... that was the sarcastic part!

I was only making fun of all the honest, earnest DUers who harp on how they or their friends or family are either going to sit it out or vote for McCain because Obama's supporters are sooooo mean!

[L0oniX]

76. OK that's it. If you don't support Obama I am going to join Alcaida.

:evilgrin: :sarcasm:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

81. Dupe

[HCE SuiGeneris]

82. Recommended much earlier.

:kick:

[Kitty Herder]

84. K&R!

[cbaker3122]

85. Obama Supporters Don't You See What You're Doing????

Every time you ignore a lie from Obama, and prefer to act as if any lie he tells, no matter how self-serving or blatant, is something we should just accept because "they all do it", you are driving voters away. Trust me when I say that many, many people do not treat all lies as equal, and will see his REPEATED contradictory claims about his relationship with Rezko or Wright or home-grown terrorist Bill Ayers or his so-called typical white grandmother paying for the most expensive private school in Hawaii for him or his wife's tripling charges to uninsured minority sick people at her "not for profit" hospital as not only a run-of-the-mill political fudging of the truth, but an attempt to claim valor as a person he simply is not. This will KILL US in the GE against McCain. That's just ONE example of a lie... there's also the claim that Obama just wants to be fair to Michigan and Florida by somehow preventing them from voting ... how dumb does he think we are?! When you back him up in his treatment of Michigan and Florida voters as people whose votes aren't worth counting, you are sending a message that they don't matter... and trust me, many millions of people in those states think it does matter, and they will vote for McCain if he is the nominee!

Every time you ignore Obama's secret past, you are acting like Republicans who ignored Bush's massive inexperience in his first Presidential elections. Obama has still never answered all the questions about why exactly he was engaged in a massively discounted land deal with a man who was under investigation/indictment AT THE TIME of the deal for corruption charges dealing with the Illinois legislature...what is Obama hiding? Don't you see that by refusing to meaningfully address these very serious issues of secrecy (especially now that Rezko is currently on trial for these massive corruption charges), that you are driving away voters, who are not going to be so enthusiastic about supporting someone who exhibits those same traits?

Every time you label Clinton's supporters (and she has JUST as many as he does, and a lot more in the BIG, non-flyover states) as uneducated or working class or racist... you're driving away the very CORE voters this party so desperately needs. These are the loyal and true voters that the Dem party kept during the unprecedented peace and prosperity of the Clinton administrations. The voters who have always been loyal and appreciate the decades of service by the Clintons. Our party was never better or stronger under the Clinton administration because so many people had money... sadly... many Obama supporters were too wrapped up in their cartoons and grade school parties to realize they too were enjoying that peace and prosperity. Don't get me wrong, I give Obama his due. He says pretty things, but he had a whole year in the Senate before running for President and we have very little to show for that whole year.

Please, think about what you're doing. Do you really want to berate and attack all the loyal core Democratic voters who will all be around fighting for this country long after you Obamacans have gone back to your bar-hopping and video games?

As the weeks pass, please think about my words, and measure what you say to people here. Because as we all know, nothing impacts a person's choice more than what people say on message boards.

Careful what you say. Cause if you say things that I think aren't fair, I'll still never vote for McCain, because unlike the childish, cult-like Obamacans, us true and mature Democrats don't vote for Republicans just because our new boyfriend Obama is not on the ticket. Seriously. I really mean that. And I'm not the only one who feels this way. There are lots of people that think this way. Trust me, I know.

[Butch350]

91. That's So...

...Juvenile


cbaker3122 (40 posts) Thu Apr-03-08 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
86. Obama Supporters Don't You See What You're Doing????

[redqueen]

102. Try harder next time... while you can.

Enjoy your stay.

:hi:

[Enrique]

87. Obama supporters do harmful things too

they should think about what they're doing as well.

[redqueen]

104. You do know there's another thread for this right?

I'm not seroiusly claiming I'll vote for McCain... no matter how rude, disrespectful, asinine, belligerent, crusty, stinky or chewy any of his supporters are. That was the sarcasm part. I was only poking fun at the allegedly serious claims in the other thread.

The serious part of my thread is the stuff about alienating supporters by insulting them, but that's not directed at supporters, but the candidate herself as well as her campaign. I don't expect her supporters to be professional politicians, but I expect her and her campaign to at least try not to mock supporters, not try to cover up or defend bold-faced lies... etc.

[Butch350]

89. Well...

After seeing all the tactics, some of them really nasty, by the CLINTONS - there is now way I would vote for Hillary, ever!

If I don't get the Progressive CANDIDATE I voted for in the primaries - then I will vote Mc Cain.

I will rally behind McCain and dedicate my own personal website to spreading the word to vote for McCain.

Da Hell with this party - if the Democractic party falls apart, so be it!

I've talked to a lot of people who feel the same as I do! If I don't get progressive - then I'll go staus quo! (McCain)

[redqueen]

106. That is different.

You're basing your refusal to vote on your personal beliefs about the candidate. At least that's logical.

Trying to come in here and say that your decision is due to the way supporters behave is ludicrous on its face. We can't cater to every nutjob who bases their decisions on ridiculous BS. I know "libertarians" that said last time around the reason they chose Bush over Kerry was cause they didn't like Teresa but thought Laura was nice. Idiotic rationales like that are indefensible.

[MyNameGoesHere]

90. Oh that did it i am now convinced that Obama is the only

person worth my vote..... Oh wait no you didn't change my mind. Sorry. Maybe you should try it in a motherly voice or something. Your scolding is lame at best.

[redqueen]

107. It's not a scolding.

It's taking the piss out of idiotic rationales for making one's decision, contrasted with some actual issues that are worthy of concern.

[Deep13]

92. So in summary, get lost.

[redqueen]

108. Errr.... nope.

How did you get that from what I typed?

:shrug:

[Deep13]

113. I'm not required to look at one post in isolation...

...and you know what i'm talking about. This post is in response to a similar (but original) post made yesterday expressing real concerns. Your response is that poster and those who argee do not have any valid complaints.

[redqueen]

115. Oh, no... they're valid complaints.

I can complain till the cows come home about how rude and nasty some Clinton supporters are... how how rude and nasty some Democrats are... or about how rude and nasty some Utd fans are... etc, etc, etc.

They're all valid OPINIONS. But they're far from defensible reasons for determining your support for a candidate, and THAT is what I'm lampooning in this thread. Not people's perceptions about who they think has more meanie candidates, no matter how much I may disagree, because that is subjective.

[Deep13]

116. Ya-a-a-a-w-wn!

Not all opinions are equally valid. The difference between intelligence and wisdom is being able to distinguish among them.

[redqueen]

118. Yes! Exactly my point!

:hi:

[riverwalker]

93. oh you bad

:evilgrin:
and I mean it in a good way. ;) Thanks for the well done response. (All I could muster to the original "you made me do it" was a flabbergasted "grow the fuck up") It reminded me of those murderers on TV who say "she made me kill her because she wouldn't stop screaming"

[Tarc]

94. The internet is serious business

[redqueen]

109. ...

http://xkcd.com/386/

:D

[undeterred]

95. You are a genius.

[redqueen]

110. !

:blush:

:P

[helderheid]

103. !

:loveya: :yourock:

[IndianaJones]

105. boo. nt.

[redqueen]

111. Aw c'mon...

You really don't think it's funny at all? :(

[IndianaJones]

112. pbbbt. nt.

[Gman]

114. Looks like another paid Obama staffer

working away. Earning a paycheck... cool job to have.

[redqueen]

119. Oh honey, in my dreams!

:rofl:

Hey Obama campaign staffers... if any of you are reading this, hook me up! Please! :D

[Gman]

121. Well it gets hard to distinguish who the professionals are here

[redqueen]

125. You flatter me.

:P

[Gman]

126. I'm sure you would think so

[redqueen]

127. Oh burn!

:eyes:

[Pappy]

117. Well spoken but I would never vote for a Republican, even if he is Progressive like McCain

[redqueen]

120. That was sarcasm... I'm a TRUE Yellow Dog...

I have voted STRAIGHT TICKET all my life!

NO amount of whiny pushy snobby or whatever kinda -y people on the net would ever make me even BEGIN to reconsider that.

:patriot:

[Symarip]

131. I would expect that kind of nonsense from an Arsenal fan (n/t)

[redqueen]

132. Are you a Utd fan?

Is that what this is about?

Or is it the Spurs?

Either way... pbthbhthbht! :P

[Symarip]

133. Arsenal fans can never say anything nice about their own team

That's why they constantly lose in the public forum.

/snark

Yeah, I used to follow the EPL when I had nothing better to do but watch Fox Sports World all day. But now I have a 'real' job so I don't follow it quite as much. So I guess I am somewhat of a Red Devils fan even though I don't know shit about what they're up to these days.

[redqueen]

134. Ah well you're missin out...

those guys are kickin ass and taking names. I swear Ronaldo is a robot. It's not fair. x( But he's on my fantasy team so yay for that. :D

I only watch the good matches on FSC on the weekends. Lately there's not many. Arsenal's game this weekend is on Setanta and even though the CL match was on ESPN... it wasn't worth watching. *sob*

[meow mix]

123. Why Clinton supporters? WHY!?!!111!

[autorank]

124. redqueen for a day !!! K*R

Rokken