Progressives: why our work STARTS when Obama takes the oath of office

[jgraz]

Obama aligns foreign policy with GOP

Obama Says His Foreign Policy Would Be Like That of President Bush's Father, JFK, Reagan

Sen. Barack Obama said Friday he would return the country to the more "traditional" foreign policy efforts of past presidents, such as George H.W. Bush, John F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan.

At a town hall event at a local high school gymnasium, Obama praised George H.W. Bush — father of the president — for the way he handled the Persian Gulf War: with a large coalition and carefully defined objectives.

Obama began a six-day bus tour through Pennsylvania, the largest remaining primary prize in the contest with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton for the Democratic nomination. Sen. John McCain is the Republican nominee-in-waiting.

"The truth is that my foreign policy is actually a return to the traditional bipartisan realistic policy of George Bush's father, of John F. Kennedy, of, in some ways, Ronald Reagan, and it is George Bush that's been naive and it's people like John McCain and, unfortunately, some Democrats that have facilitated him acting in these naive ways that have caused us so much damage in our reputation around the world," he said.

more at http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=106059

I still think Obama's the best candidate running, and I plan on doing everything I can to get him elected. But let's not have any illusions about him being a progressive. It's going to take a lot of work on our part to keep him from turning into Clinton-Lite.

[Blue_In_AK]

1. You are correct...

I'm afraid many progressives are in for a big disappointment unless we hold Obama's feet to the fire. Part of the solution will be to work very hard electing truly progressive candidates to Congress.

[jgraz]

4. If we don't hold his feet to the fire, we deserve what we get.

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. True that.

I'm behind him because he's the not-DLC candidate, but that doesn't necessarily make him progressive.

[Cant trust em]

3. I don't think this is a big deal

He's talking specifically, in this case, about a large coalition and specifically defined objectives. I agree with that.

What I'm more concerned about his lack of using the phrase "military action as a last result".

As my roommate said about Obama, "He's liberal enough".

[jgraz]

9. He specifically praised Bush 41's conduct of the Iraq War

Now, I may be confusing some memories but I think I remember marching in subzero Madison weather to protest Bush 41's conduct of the Iraq War.

My concern is that he's dog-whistling to TPTB that he'll be a "good manager" for America's imperialist foreign policy.

[Cant trust em]

12. Is that from another quote?

Because the one you posted is praising in very specific ways. Those ways listed are ones that I agree with. Like I said in my other post, there are some aspects of his foriegn policy that do trouble me.

[jgraz]

16. Here's the key problem with what he said

From the same article:

McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds said Obama "represents an absolute departure" from Reagan and other presidents "whose strength in the face of an outspoken and determined enemy won the greater peace for a generation."


That's what we need in the general election: a debate over which candidate is more Reagany. :banghead:

[Cant trust em]

18. Here's what we know about Obama's "praising" for Reagan

He believes in building a coalition of your base and some people from the other party.

He believes in speaking with heads of state from your usual enemies, ie Gorbachev.

I hate Reagan, but these two things I'm not concerned about.

[easy_b94]

5. As long as he didn't say G.W. Bush..I am cool with this

[grantcart]

6. actually it starts when he gets the nomination

we have congress and senate to move

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Never trust politicians.

See Lord Acton's axiom for the explanation.

[ClassWarrior]

10. Please don't promote RW memes. All that does is make it easier...

...for the Rape-Publicans to get away with their crimes.

NGU.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. Lord Acton was a right-winger?

How about Tom Paine?

"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
Thomas Paine

[ClassWarrior]

15. Don't they have a show on Faux?

:rofl:

Don't be oblique. I know plenty of politicians, mostly on the local level, with whom I'd trust my mother's life - and I often have.

I thought the Rape-Publicans were the party of overly simplistic, sweeping generalizations...

NGU.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. I don;'t think that Replugs are overly fond of Acton or Tom's "generalizations".

I find "trusting" politicians to be downright undemocratic.

[ClassWarrior]

22. I find mindless sweeping generalizations to be downright ignorant.

And I don't think one out of 100 Rape-Publicans could tell you who Acton or Paine were. But they could tell you that "all politicians are crooks," when clearly only all of THEIR politicians are crooks, and we actually have some good civil servants in our midst.

NGU.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. So? Should I give a rip about what repubs think?

But, your trust of the bosses is touching.

[ClassWarrior]

24. You don't have to when you're promoting memes that benefit them.

:eyes:

This one for instance: http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/research/rockridge/dangerous-framing-of-congress-as-inept-community/view?searchterm=inept

Healthy skepticism is one thing, but downright mistrust and impotent bitterness help no one.

NGU.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. I'm not bitter.

Just convinced that when politicians obtain the power to rule over other people to the extent of deciding who will live or die, which is inherent in having such power, to "trust" them is foolish, at best.

"Freedom is the absolute right of all adult men and women to seek permission for their actions only from their own conscience and reason, and to be determined in their actions only by their own will, and consequently to be responsible only to themselves, and then to the society to which the belong, but only insofar as they have made a free decision to belong to it." Mikhail Bakunin

[ClassWarrior]

26. All I'm asking is that you don't promote memes that hurt us and help them.

Harbor whatever feelings you want in your heart, but please don't be reckless with your mouth.

NGU.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. I'm not "promoting" anything.

Nobody has to heed what I write on a message board. I'm not in charge of anything but my own life.

And, what "meme" are you promoting?

[ClassWarrior]

8. I'll be ready on day one!! Remember FDR...

CUNY Professor Frances Fox Piven on a recent Democracy Now!:

You know, in 1932, FDR didn’t run with a good program; he ran with the same program the Democrats had run with in 1924 and 1928, and that wasn’t a good program. But nevertheless, his rhetoric encouraged people who were suffering as a result of the Depression—working people, the unemployed—and helped to fuel the movements, which then forced FDR to support initiatives which he otherwise would not have supported, including the right to organize...

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/6/super_tuesday_roundtable_with_bill_fletcher

NGU.

[MyNameGoesHere]

11. Why did he throw in shrub 1 and raygun?

shrub 1 invaded Grenada to prove he wasn't a wimp and raygun? For god's sake he bankrupted our country with military spending. Obama needs to stop praising losers like raygun.

[redqueen]

14. The same is true of any politician.

Voting is the LEAST you have to do. The real work starts after they're in office.

[jgraz]

20. Agree, with one caveat

If it's Hillary or McCain we probably shouldn't even bother.

[redqueen]

21. Hah... well...

I won't bother with them... but I'll still trouble Congress to no end... as I already do... to great effect of course. :P

[Two Americas]

19. more difficult

I agree with you, but we should keep in mind that it is more difficult to influence politicians once they are in office. When they win by being wishy-washy and vague, we are rewarding them for that. They have no incentive to change and we have no leverage.

Of course they all move to the right once they are in office - the big money players have their ear and we do not.

The time to have maximum leverage is before candidates are elected. Unfortunately, too many of our own attack us as disloyal if we dare criticize their favored personalities and heroes.

Ironically, I have found in 40 years of campaigning that being willing to be critical of our own candidates makes people more likely, not less, to trust what I am saying and to be persuaded to vote against the Republicans. The rah rah cheer leading and hero worship, while it may make people feel good and self-righteous, seriously alienates the general public.

Modern liberalism has become an exercise in self-expression rather than a political movement, and again and again we go for the consolation prize in politics - being "right" in a narrow self-righteous way - in lieu of getting actual results.

[Bake]

28. This cracks me up!

You want to put in someone who, you readily admit, is not progressive (i.e., NOT LIBERAL, I'm not ashamed of the word liberal), and HOPE you can hold his feet to the fire! And yet, when a supporter of his opponent questions his progressive credentials, you (supporters, i.e., perhaps not you personally, OP) go ballistic.

I guess this explains some of the paranoia among Obama fans. You want to win really badly, but you're not sure your guy is the real deal. So you vociferously defend him as the real deal.

Riiiiiiiight.

Bake

[jgraz]

29. I'm not sure where you got that impression, but it's pretty off the mark

I'm sure we could do a mash-up of the views of anyone's supporters and it would come off looking pretty silly. I, for one, have never believed Obama to be a progressive (which is NOT a synonym for "liberal", btw).

I do want to win, and my support of Obama is a strategic move. If I thought Hillary would bring more Democrats to the polls, if I thought she had leadership potential AND if I thought she had a chance in hell against McCain, I would have put aside my personal animosity toward her and supported her against Obama (something I seriously considered when Edwards dropped out).

I think Obama is the "real deal" when it comes to leadership, even though his politics are not to my liking. What's important is that we realize exactly who is it we're electing and plan accordingly to achieve our real goals -- goals that have nothing to do with a particular person occupying a particular office.