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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:25 AM
Original message
1996 reports HRC swooping in on Black Hawks protected by sharpshooters
From the March 26, 1996 St. Louis Post-Dispatch:

Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal "thank you, thank you, thank you" to U.S. troops.

"They're making a difference," she said, referring to the 18,500 American peacekeepers in Bosnia. Mrs. Clinton became the first presidential spouse since Eleanor Roosevelt to make such an extensive trip into what can be considered a hostile area,

&s_trackval=GooglePM" target="_blank">http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=...


I found lots of similar stories from that time with just news.google.com. I am disgusted by how few people do even minimum checking of facts before cut/paste/post. (BTW I made an error in a post 10 days ago, have rechecked my "sources", and will post a correction/clarification in the day or so. Unrelated to any of this.)

I supported Edwards, prefer discussing how we might solve some of the problems facing us rather than this constant gotcha bickering that is worse than a bunch of 10 year olds. It took Elizabeth Edwards speaking out to restart the discussion on health care. I, like many others, would prefer stalemate to letting any of the remaining candidates get elected.

I suggest that Obama supporters should spend their time fact checking Obama's books and other claims. They don't hold up very well to scrutiny. I looked at some of that three months ago and was surprised at the problems lurking in his (and our) path. I had started out relatively neutral wrt Obama. Of course, the RW are going over all of this very closely and are finding a lot of issues, most for use later. (For example, http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/ )



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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. How does this refute her "I remember running from sniper fire" lie?
Even if your link worked, which it doesn't, this has nothing to do with her sniper fire claim. And in that case, it's not relevant.

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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. At forward bases, via BHs, etc. would be closer to her reports
I have mostly been agnostic on this particular story, but finally took a few minutes to read news reports at the time of her trip and found these type reports which might be closer to what actually happened. Swooping in on BHs with sharpshooters would be consistent with keeping one's head down and not spending extra time in the LZ. It would not look like the video at the airport.

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yeah, my initial reaction is that she was talking about her visit to the military base.
I can't imagine going to a military base (where neither Chelsea or the Comedy and Music Troupe went) and it being all nice and pretty.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. She never said she ran from sniper fire....
Edited on Thu Apr-03-08 07:32 AM by niceypoo
your lying, she said there were reports of sniper fire in the area.
This is exactly what the republicans did to smear Al Gore in 2000.
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texas_indy Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Total BS!!! She said she landed UNDER SNIPER FIRE!! spin, spin, spin for Hillary!
Edited on Thu Apr-03-08 08:08 AM by texas_indy
7 seconds into the video you will see her majesty say "I remember landing UNDER SNIPER FIRE!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3depGF5E-0

And, she stated " at the airport"! These attempts trying to spin her outright LIE to mean something else are as sad as her willingness to lie so easily.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. "I remember landing under sniper fire..."
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/03/hillarys_balkan_adventures_par.html

"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."
--Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008.

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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. Bet You Will Find Her Waving A Yellow Flag And Shouting
'bad idea' about NAFTA believable too when google find you a picture of her holding one of those little flags on July 4th.
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kevinmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
3. Error:servlet66b:
Your search session has expired.

Please make sure that cookies are enabled on your browser, then return to the search page and try again.
Please note that bookmarking of pages within the archive is not supported.

If the problem persists please contact NewsBank (newslibrary@newsbank.com).

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. This is Rich!
I suggest you spend more time fact checking on Hillary before you come in here with wild claims. I have read both of Obama's books, and I haven't the slightest clue as to the "fear" your trying to suggest.
As for the Bosnian episode, no matter how you try to pretty it up, it's still a bold faced lie on Hillarys' part, and it's really sad, because the truth would have been better. The camera doesn't lie.

Washington Post Fact Checker


"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."
--Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008.

Hillary Clinton has been regaling supporters on the campaign trail with hair-raising tales of a trip she made to Bosnia in March 1996. In her retelling, she was sent to places that her husband, President Clinton, could not go because they were "too dangerous." When her account was challenged by one of her traveling companions, the comedian Sinbad, she upped the ante and injected even more drama into the story. In a speech earlier this week, she talked about "landing under sniper fire" and running for safety with "our heads down."

There are numerous problems with Clinton's version of events.

The Facts
(Updated below)

As a reporter who visited Bosnia soon after the December 1995 Dayton Peace agreement, I can attest that the physical risks were minimal during this period, particularly at a heavily fortified U.S. Air Force base, such as Tuzla. Contrary to the claims of Hillary Clinton and former Army secretary Togo West, Bosnia was not "too dangerous" a place for President Clinton to visit in early 1996. In fact, the first Clinton to visit the Tuzla Air Force base was not Hillary, but Bill, on January 13, 1996.

Had Hillary Clinton's plane come "under sniper fire" in March 1996, we would certainly have heard about it long before now. Numerous reporters, including the Washington Post's John Pomfret, covered her trip. A review of nearly 100 news accounts of her visit shows that not a single newspaper or television station reported any security threat to the First Lady. "As a former AP wire service hack, I can safely say that it would have been in my lead had anything like that happened," said Pomfret.

According to Pomfret, the Tuzla airport was "one of the safest places in Bosnia" in March 1996, and "firmly under the control" of the 1st Armored Division.

Far from running to an airport building with their heads down, Clinton and her party were greeted on the tarmac by smiling U.S. and Bosnian officials. An eight-year-old Moslem girl, Emina Bicakcic, read a poem in English. An Associated Press photograph of the greeting ceremony, above, shows a smiling Clinton bending down to receive a kiss.


more here:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/03/hillarys_balkan_adventures_par.html

Caught on Candid Camera

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOsGo_HWP-c&feature=related

________________________________________________________________________

With Friends like this

It's not that we expect politicians to have squeaky-clean donor lists. You try running for office without, at one point or another, taking money from someone you probably shouldn't. Even Barack Obama, Mr. Clean, has Tony Rezko. But the Frank Giustra-Kazakhstan-Uranium affair, blown open by The New York Times last week, serves as a reminder that the relationship between the Clintons and money has not always been lily-white. Here, a guide to the unsavory characters who have been associated with Bill and Hillary Clinton.


THE DONOR
Norman Hsu, Hong Kong "apparel executive."

Credit: Getty Images
View Larger Image
The Clintons


THE GREEN
Hsu bundled more than $850,000 for Hillary's presidential campaign and $260,000 for Clinton's Senate races.


THE SCANDAL
Hsu parlayed his charming, obsequious personality into a spot as one of the top twenty Democratic fund-raisers nationwide. Problem is, he turned out to be a convicted felon, on the lam since 1992 due to a grand theft conviction. Then, this December, Hsu was indicted for running a pyramid scheme that defrauded investors out of at least $20 million and that made $25,000 a year in fraudulent political donations.


THE SLEAZE FACTOR (on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 somewhat sleazy and 10 stupendously so)
8. Hsu missed his initial (September 5) court date for the 1992 grand theft charge, only to be apprehended a day later on a train in Colorado; he was "freaked out," shirtless, shoeless, and holding a suitcase packed with Tiffany jewelry and $7,000 in cash. Now in federal custody, he confessed to running "phony" companies and leaning on investors to make political donations.


THE DAMAGE TO THE CLINTONS (on a scale of 1 to 10)
7. Extensive Hsu coverage stretched out over several news cycles during Hillary's presidential campaign, and the sordid details of the affair--the pyramid schemes, the links to Asian gangs, the eccentric professional con artist himself--stirred up memories of Clinton fund-raising scandals past. Hillary blamed the fiasco on errors in the donor-screening process.

many more here:

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=076fd56f-4aca-4683-a9d1-3c55d748946e&k=60222

_________________________________________________________________________________

Bill and Hillary Clinton's Recent Meteoric Rise in Wealth
(Graphs, Links, and Thoughts)

Since they first entered politics back in mid 1970s until as recently as 2003, the Clintons maintained a relativly modest level of net wealth. Even in the three years following Bill Clinton’s presidency their combined net worth remained surprising low - with much of Hillary’s $8 million book deal and other earnings getting eaten up by outstanding legal fees associated with numerous investigations during the presidential years.

So what exactly happened between 2004 and the present that explains the Clinton's meteoric growth in person wealth? The conventional wisdom is that Bill Clinton’s new career giving speeches explains the sudden increase. If this is true, how and why did the speaking circuit proved so much more lucrative in the three years between 2004 and 2006 than it did in the three years between 2001 and 2003?

Just how is it that the three years of speaking gigs before January 1, 2004 had little effect on the Clinton’s net wealth while the three years of speaking gigs after January 1, 2004 caused it to multiply by more that 15 times?

Perhaps there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for all this but I think the subject certainly merits some more scrutiny by the press, if for no other reason than confirm or put to rest Dick Morris’s conspiracy theories.

The links under the graphs below show that the MSM is starting to take a closer look at Bill Clinton’s recent business activities. However, the question of how, or if, these activities have contributed to the Clinton's post-2003 exponential growth in wealth still remains unanswered. The fact that the Clinton campagn is now starting to tap into this recently-created fortune, and...

more here:

http://thememlingindex.com/hillary_clinton_net_worth-wealth.html

_________________________________________________________________

Things worth knowing about Hillary Clinton

DETAILS


HILLARY CLINTON'S RIGHTWING RECORD ON INTERNATIONAL LAW

STEPHEN ZUNES, FOREIGN POLICY IN FOCUS - Senator Hillary Clinton has opposed restrictions on U.S. arms transfers and police training to governments that engage in gross and systematic human rights abuses. Indeed, she has supported unconditional U.S. arms transfers and police training to such repressive and autocratic governments as Egypt, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Pakistan, Equatorial Guinea, Azerbaijan, Cameroon, Kazakhstan, and Chad, just to name a few. She has also refused to join many of her Democratic colleagues in signing a letter endorsing a treaty that would limit arms transfers to countries that engage in a consistent pattern of gross and systematic human rights violations.
Civilian Casualties

Not only is she willing to support military assistance to repressive regimes, she has little concern about controlling weapons that primarily target innocent civilians. Senator Clinton has refused to support the international treaty to ban land mines, which are responsible for killing and maiming thousands of civilians worldwide, a disproportionate percentage of whom have been children.

~snip~

SUMMARY

FIRST FIRST LADY to come under criminal investigation

FIRST FIRST LADY to almost be indicted acccording to one of the special prosecutors

NUMBER of Hillary Clinton fundraisers convicted of, or pleading no contest to, crime: 5

NUMBER OF TIMES that Hillary Clinton, providing testimony to Congress, said that she didn't remember, didn't know, or something similar: 250

NUMBER OF CLOSE BUSINESS partners of Hillary Clinton who ended up in prison: 3. The Clintons' two partners in Whitewater wereconvicted of 24 counts of fraud and conspiracy. Hillary Clinton's partner and mentor at the Rose law firm, Webster Hubbell, pleaded guilty to federal mail fraud and tax evasion charges, including defrauding former clients and former partners out of more than $480,000. Hillary Clinton was mentioned 35 times in the indictment.

IN THE 1980s, Hillary Clinton made a $44,000 profit on a $2,000 investment in a cellular phone franchise deal took advantage of the FCC's preference for locals, minorities and women. The franchise was almost immediately flipped to the cellular giant, McCaw.

HILLARY CLINTON AND HER HUSBAND set up a resort land scam known as Whitewater in which the unwitting bought third rate property 50 miles from the nearest grocery store and, thanks to the sleazy financing, about half the purchasers, many of them seniors, lost their property.

IN 1993 HILLARY CLINTON and David Watkins moved to oust the White House travel office in favor of World Wide Travel, Clinton's source of $1 million in fly-now-pay-later campaign trips that essentially financed the last stages of the campaign without the bother of reporting a de facto contribution. The White House fired seven long-term employees for alleged mismanagement and kickbacks. The director, Billy Dale, charged with embezzlement, was acquitted in less than two hours by the jury.

wealth of info here:

http://prorev.com/hillary.htm

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________





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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. And you did not read anything else before you posted the TPs -- not Tuzla
I don't post all that often, but I rarely get things wrong. From the reports on March 26, 1998 HRC went from Tuzla to several other locations by Black Hawk. That would have been a much different experience than the previous day landing by plane at Tuzla (although it was the same plane that crashed the following week with Sec. Brown and all the VIPs).

Posting all those unrelated RW talking points about HRC doesn't improve your credibility.

Don't get too smug wrt Obama. There are plenty of things the RW would use effectively against him. No, they have not been debunked. There have been ongoing efforts to distract and misdirect, but they have not been debunked. I have posted about a few things here and at salon.com, mostly while Edwards was still in the race.

I am not happy that my only two choices in the NC primary are Clinton and Obama, among the most conservative and most corporate of our initial field of candidates. But what would make me really angry would be if we screwed up, discovered a nasty surprise after Labor Day with our nominee, and wound up with President McCain.

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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. You rarely get things wrong?
Edited on Thu Apr-03-08 05:06 AM by SunsetDreams
Your claims on Sen. Obamas' books were unrelated to your post as well....so I guess you kind of get back what you put forth.

She lied period, no matter which way you spin it, she has never been under sniper fire anywhere.

I am not too smug with Obama, I know he is not perfect. What are you claiming has not been debunked? Be specific when you make that claim.


On edit: I really don't think you should be telling me about RW talking points after your OP

"Of course, the RW are going over all of this very closely and are finding a lot of issues, most for use later. (For example"
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Your previous post IS full of RW talking points
Hate does bizarre things to people. She never said she had been under sniper fire.
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texas_indy Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Total BS!!! She said she landed UNDER SNIPER FIRE!! spin, spin, spin for Hillary!
7 seconds into the video you will see her majesty say "I remember landing UNDER SNIPER FIRE!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3depGF5E-0

And, she stated " at the airport"! These attempts trying to spin her outright LIE to mean something else are as sad as her willingness to lie so easily.
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. oh forgot this important one
Edited on Thu Apr-03-08 04:11 AM by SunsetDreams
HERE COME THE VETS

http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=945

Retired Colonel William “Goose” Changose, who flew the C-17 that Senator Clinton claimed made evasive maneuvers flying into Tuzla, Bosnia, testifies that the senator did not tell the truth about the landing. He says Clinton’s claim of passengers being directed to sit on bulletproof vests never happened and suggests that the fantasy might have come from a scene in the movie Apocalypse Now.

____________________________________________
adding this one too on edit:


Bosnian Vet Accuses Hillary of Valor Theft

A veteran of Bosnia who was at the event in Tuzla where Hillary Clinton falsely claimed to have landed under sniper fire is accusing the Senator of theft of valor. As General Walter L. Stewart Jr. of the Pennsylvania National Guard said earlier today on a conference call, soldiers who actually have been in war zones and performed under fire deeply despise those who falsely claim such valor. They feel this way because it attempts to cheapen or make less, their real and actual valor.

The General pointed out "this wasn't an emergency resupply mission to the Alamo. If there had been any danger that mission wouldn't have landed."

Common sense tells us the First Lady and Chelsea would never have been put in harms way by our military. Hillary's tale of bravery and valor, because it was false, is finding resentment among those who actually did serve and Tammi K. (nee Jann) Hertherington who was at Tuzla when Senator Clinton landed is one. Here is her story.


more here:
http://pennsylvaniaprogressive.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/03/bosnian-vet-acc.html


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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
great post...and yes,Obama peeps need to read, vet their candidate. IF the truth were known about BHO...He would not even be in this race.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. What is the truth?
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. I think it's your duty as an American to tell us what those truths are
oh and please back it up with facts and links. Thanks so much!
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
11. Um, I've been to weddings protected by sharpshooters.
Doesn't mean shit. Just sayin'.
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InsultComicDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Come to think of it when I was in Jerusalem
there were sharpshooters all over the place.
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DemVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 05:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. Hmmmm........
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Doug.Goodall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 05:27 AM
Response to Original message
13. You say "Obama supporters should spend their time fact checking"
Well buddy, Hillary has been fact checked, and she is deficient in the truth. Any misspeaking by Obama does not make it right for what Hillary has done.

Two wrongs do not make a right. Hillary is wrong and will not get my vote.

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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
16. Street Theater
Poppy used to do the same thing in Maine. He would arrive in Kennebunkport like a scene from Apocalypse Now, with several Gunships as if there was a threat.

It's all bullshit. Nobody in Bosnia would waste a round on her sorry ass.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. If you look at the tape, they were getting off an airplane, not a helicopter.nt
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
22. Aren't sharpshooters used on a regular basis to protect the president, first lady, etc.?
I don't see what the big deal is with this. Of course there were security protocols in place! But Hillary was not going around telling people that she landed in Bosnia protected by sharpshooters (which would have been accurate, albeit not surprising news). She said she landed under sniper fire, the greeting ceremony had to be canceled, and everyone had to run with their heads down to their vehicles. Those facts are all lies.
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olkaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
24. This is hilarious....
No matter what gets proven or unproven, the narrative has already been set. The more people try to prove it wrong, the more people will just remember the preposterous lie.

So keep going, it is really funny to watch.
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
26. "If you look really closely Mrs. Clinton, you'll see your microscopic
shred of integrity..."


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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. If you look closely, Hillary
you might see your chance of winning an honest election.
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I like that too...
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