I don't consider Hillary a Democrat anymore

[Araxen]

And I don't feel beholden to vote for her anymore in the GE if by some act of god the Dems have a brain fart and let her be the nominee. The game of ruin everyone and everything if you're against Hillary is something I do not approve of and will not get my vote. My morals tell me this isn't the way to get elected and I am sticking by my morals. If she can't sell herself to the American people that's not somebody that should the POTUS or the Dem Nominee.

She hasn't been able to see herself for awhile and can only resort to "hurt them at all costs". It's pretty sad a fine woman as her has had to resort to this, but if she has to sell herself out I can only imagine how quick she'll sell out America.

[Marrah_G]

1. Not voting or voting non-Dem is the same as voting for McCain

Now you have every right to vote for McCain if you want.... but think about it. Do you really want to see McCain in the WH?

[Araxen]

4. Well I won't have blood on my hands by voting for her.

[Marrah_G]

13. But you will definitely have blood on your hands by voting for McCain. ( ugh I hate that metaphor)

[Araxen]

28. Did I say I was voting for McCain?

[Marrah_G]

29. So if Hillary wins the Nom you will vote for her?

If not, you are voting for McCain.

[Araxen]

36. lol, twist words however you like

I won't vote for McCain or Hillary. Maybe 3rd party.

[Marrah_G]

40. I did not twist your words. A vote for a 3rd party is a vote for McCain.

But hey, that's your choice.

[Jed Dilligan]

42. Only in swing states

For the majority of the population, the danger is a descent into apathy, since our votes don't really count anyway.

[zonmoy]

14. not sure that it would be that much different with hillary or obama though.

the democratic leaders seem to have earned a bit of a reputation for getting elected by claiming they work for the little people and then once in office flipping the little people the bird and doing whatever their corporate masters tell them too.

[Marrah_G]

18. I can't really argue with you on that. It may well end up that way.

It often does happen that way not with Dem politicians, but with all types of politicians.

The higher the pedestal the more damage done in the fall.

All one can do is look at the candidates, vote for who you think is the best out of them, and then sit back and hope that you both made the right choice ad that the winner upholds his campaign promises.

[Emillereid]

31. Depends on where you live - I live in CA which will no doubt go democratic no

matter who the democrat is, so I feel it's safe not to vote for her. Now in close states I think people should hold their nose and vote for her. There is the Supreme court to consider after all.

[Marrah_G]

34. Okay- I can understand your point.

I could probably not vote here in Mass and not have it matter...BUT, if to many people do that it could tip the scales.

[info being]

35. Voting Hillary is also the same as voting McCain

[Marrah_G]

41. Not if they are running against one another.

Or did you mean it in the same way Nader people said "Gore is the same as Bush" in 2000?

[info being]

47. Yeah I meant it that way

[Hugabear]

2. Democrat or Democrat-lite, she's still better than the alternative

n/t

[grassfed]

20. H Clinton is identical to McCain where it matters the most

She's a committed neocon. She'll bomb Iran, keep troops in Iraq and appoint pnac approved Supreme Court justices, etc. Not enough difference between her and McCain on issues of war and torture to reward her disloyalty.

Hillary Clinton
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
Hillary refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

McCain
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
McCain refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

However, on the 1996 Telecomm Act (aka media consolidation act) they part ways.
Clinton camp:
Signed into law

McCain:
Voted AGAINST it (along with Wellstone, Feingold, Simon, and Leahy

[Life Long Dem]

3. If blacks vote against her in NY she might not even get her senator position back.

And I'm sure she isn't getting on their good side about right now.

[GarbagemanLB]

5. After throwing Wright and an 8,000 member church under the bus, I hope they do vote against her.

[Life Long Dem]

16. And not to mention Obama's grandmother being thrown under the bus.

[QC]

38. Yeah, but she's just a typical white person. n/t

[olkaz]

6. seriously, step away from the computer and get back to work

You've lost your mind.

John McCain will result in more pain, suffering, fear, and death.

Do the right thing, regardless of the nominee.

[YOY]

7. Consider the alternative (the non-Democratic alternative)

Yeah, I'll vote for unelectable legacy if it comes down to it...

[JohnnyLib2]

8. Ummm, she's on the primary ballot in my state and others.

Please think through the implications of "de-Democrating" Clinton or anyone in that position in April, 2008. :mad:

Let me emphasize, please THINK through this.

[LWolf]

9. If we're able to declare Democrats not democrats,

then I don't consider Obama a Democrat, either. He's a closet republican, based on his positions on issues.


While we're at it, we may as well declare all the voters who voted for either of these "not democrats" "not democrats," as well.

:sarcasm:

[book_worm]

10. I'll vote for her if she's the nominee but won't lift a finger to help in any other way

I'll work for our congressional ticket, as usual. I liked her but her campaign has been calculated at tearing down Obama because she can't accept that the nomination wasn't given to her on a silver platter. She has gone out of her way to praise the GOP presumptive nominee instead. Luckily she won't be the nominee and I will vote for and work for Obama.

[Skip Intro]

11. Your post might be taken more seriously if you threw in a few specifics

to back up your claims that she is trying to ruin everyone not in her corner and *hurt them at all costs*

examples?

[Mezzo]

12. same thing on my end for Barack Hussein Obama. nt

[grrr050]

15. You stupid or what?

Stop your despicable accusations about HRC selling America. You're selling America to John McCain.

[4themind]

17. Post like this DON't help Obama OR Clinton, they HELP McCAIN!

This may just give an out for those who don't want to vote for obama in the GE, by using equivocation to SOME of HIS supporters. I think a relatively more constructive thing to do is to (especially given that obama has the advantage, and your hypothetical situation is looking less and less likely) Let's talk about what brought us TO obama (in OP's) as well (unless it is ABC for you) if our primary goal is to convince more americans to join on this movement. Minds can be changed, and I think there are relatively better ways to do ii, but it's your call. You can BELIEVE what ever you want if you want to POST about it know that it's a vent and it will hurt what you ultimately want in the end. UNLESS you value venting over all that

[SeaLyons]

19. Do you consider yourself a democrat??

Maybe that's the question you should ask yourself.

[Neshanic]

22. Yes, very pertinent. Are you a Democrat?

[SeaLyons]

26. Yes I am...

and that's why I'm supporting Hillary.

[Raffi Ella]

21. blah blah blah

Obama's win at any and all cost tactic of assassinating the Character of Hillary Clinton is working on you. THAT'S what sad here.

[Milo_Bloom]

23. She sold out LONG ago...

NAFTA, the Iraq war, cluster bombs, kyl-lieberman.


I don't trust her or McCain with a supreme court nominee, so I have no plans to vote for her in the GE... I would go 3rd party, since I wouldn't vote for McCain either.

[endarkenment]

24. piss off - if you would put us through another 4 years of this shit

you do not belong here. Clinton is a Democratic loyalist and if she wins the nomination anyone other than an outright idiot should vote for her.

[4themind]

25. To others PLEASE DON'T assign this poster

to supporters of obama in general, at least use other polls like pew, msnbc, and many others when using evocations as to why you will vote for mccain "because the other side is doing it" look at polls in aggregate, and make a personal judgment as to whether obama's ideals are ones that you would prefer relative to mccain. Thank you sincerely

[mtnsnake]

27. What a steaming pantload

Either you're not a real Democrat yourself or you're out of you mind.

[TwilightGardener]

30. I don't consider her a Democrat either, and I won't vote for her in any situation.

[Uben]

32. Everyone has an opinion..........

...and we now know yours. It's my opinion that people like you are not democrats at all and have no place to qualify any candidate as a democrat. I don't particularly like Obama, but you won't find a post where I put him down, because, unlike yourself, I AM a democrat. I see all these whining-assed posts about I won't vote for so and so and think you should just mosey along to another place. If you won't vote for the nominee, regardless, you ARE NOT a democrat.......you are a republican enabler....period!

That goes for every Obama and Clinton supporter here!

[DevonRex]

33. I'm disgusted that she poses as a dem. n/t

[Texas Hill Country]

37. this is ridiculous.

[tpsbmam]

39. Lemme see.....Clinton Scotus appointments vs. McCain Scotus appointments.....

I have to go with Hillary. I'm truly not a fan either and I'm becoming more and more disgusted with her each day, but you can be damned sure I'm going to vote for her in the unlikely case she's the nominee.

[democrattotheend]

43. How many of these threads do we need?

And what the hell does this accomplish? I have lost a lot of respect for Hillary as a person and I might have to hold my nose voting for her, but her platform is a lot better than McCain's, and that's what matters. I don't owe her my vote, but I owe it to my country to vote for the person who is at least proposing to get us out of Iraq and provide a solution to the healthcare crisis. Whether or not she would succeed remains to be seen, but we know McCain won't even try to do either, so it's guaranteed that no progress gets made for 4 more years if he gets elected.

[barb162]

44. Your post makes no sense

"If she can't sell herself to the American people"
SHe's been doing quite well.

"She hasn't been able to see herself for awhile"
Really?

"resort to this"
Resort to what?

"if she has to sell herself out"
What???

??????????

She has every right to run for the presidency. Repeat that 1,000 times.

[Lou Queb]

45. are not people entitled to support whomever they think close to their beliefs ?

Im not american nor democrat but im know Im progressive (I think). Can you argue that it isn't justified to not vote for one particular candidate come november for the sake of belonging to one party ? Couldn't it be right for some people to associate Clinton and/or Obama to Mc Caine policy-wise ? I rembember when I read the forum rules that granted it's a dem forum but it's also open to progressives (thereof not affiliated to any specific party). Besides, Im surprised at how low is the electorate for 3rd parties.

I think that maybe we should accept and acknoledge the distinct nature of one's conscience and character by viewing the importance of voting on values and principes of the individual. I don't believe in arguing when it becomes squables.

[TheWraith]

46. I know what you mean, but I suggest a second thought.

No, it's not appealing thinking of voting Clinton after she's evidently joing the Republican Lite Party. But remember two things. One, anything is better than a full Republican. Second, she's not going to be the nominee.