Young Voters: Damned if We Do, Damned if We Don't

[democrattotheend]

I have noticed a lot of ageism in this primary, from both sides. I was browsing the comments on CNN earlier, and I found this comment, which made my blood boil:

"This really is simple. Obama cannot win. Only Hillary can win against McCain. If the children in college in this country cannot vote according to who's the better candidate, then perhaps we should raise the voting age so they can't continue to vote without understanding what's at stake or who will make this country better. This is not American Idol Presidential."

Nobody here on DU has said anything that bluntly, but I get the sense from a lot of Clinton supporters that they resent the influence young people have had in this election, and somehow view us as less able to make a rational decision than our elders. I have gotten this reaction when canvassing and doing voter registration for Obama as well, and it's really insulting. I am not saying there have not been some derrogatory comments from our side about older people too, but there is already a thread on here today addressing that, so I want to focus on the people who treat people my age like we don't know what we are doing. I am curious how many people here agree at least to some degree with the comment above (maybe not the part about raising the voting age, but the rest of it)? I am hoping we can have an honest discussion about this (which probably confirms the stereotypes about people my age being naive!) and would like to hear some older DUers and Clinton supporters weigh in on this.

I was subject to the same sort of resentment four years ago, when I volunteered for Dean. Sometimes I am afraid to canvass for Obama because I am afraid that because I fit into some of the stereotypes about his supporters - young, relatively well-off (though I think Starbucks coffee is a waste of money), and idealistic - that I will do Obama more harm than good. A few weeks ago, one woman I talked to in Philly said to me that she thinks a President Obama would be the worst thing that could possibly happen to this country. I told her that I respected her view, and since I felt just as passionately that Obama's election would be the best thing to happen to this country in my lifetime, we'd have to agree to disagree. But she was not content to let it stop there. She shook her head and said "I just can't understand it. I really hope you've thought about what you're doing." I got similar condescending comments from a few other people, and I try not to let it get to me, but it's tough. Last weekend I took my grandparents with me and somehow I felt a lot more credible as an advocate for Obama.

Sometimes I let the media narrative get to me, and I wonder if I am naive and stupid in supporting Obama. I wonder if I am too idealistic and have too much faith in the American people to transcend racial prejudice and think beyond the 5-second soundbyte. Sometimes I wonder if I am being unrealistic about Obama's chances in the general election, or about what he might be able to accomplish as president. But then I talk to my 50-year-old mother, who is as rational as they come and often overly pessimistic, and she is even more passionate about Obama than I am.

People constantly complain about low turnout among young people in this country, but then when we do turn out, we are subject to resentment and hostility if we turn out in large enough numbers to actually impact the election, particularly in a primary. So which is it, folks? Do you want us to vote or not? And if we are so irrational and immature that we can't understand the issues or apply logic in deciding who to vote for, why are people under 30 the http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html">only age group that voted for Kerry in 2004?

[crankychatter]

1. it's all about control, from the local level to the DNC

the folks in control just don't want to be too inclusive

they benefit keeping the party small and lording it over the younguns

time for a change

[democrattotheend]

3. I think that's definitely part of it

And it's not completely illegitimate. I can understand people, especially at the local level, who have been donating and volunteering for the party for years and feel resentful that newcomers are coming in and in some cases overriding their choice of candidate. If the Democratic Party were a membership organization or an exclusive club, it would make sense that seniority would have a role in selecting its leaders. But the primaries are a democracy, and nobody's vote counts more than the next persons (except for the superdelegates, who, with the exception of the kid from Wisconsin, tend to be quite a bit older).

[BlooInBloo]

2. Sure. It's akin to the dirty-fucking-hippie hatred that establishment people feel.

[Texas Hill Country]

4. i want everyones vote to count... that is why we should seat MI/FL and have the rest of the race.

[democrattotheend]

5. Can we PLEASE stay on topic?

There are already at least 3 or 4 active threads today about Michigan and Florida.

[Lucky 13]

6. No. I say we raise the voter age to 55.

And then only bitter, hateful, white females.

:sarcasm:

[democrattotheend]

7. You should probably add a sarcasm tag, before you start a fight

[Lucky 13]

9. Thanks. Added the tag. But I don't suspect that will stop them.

Fuck it. I'm ready for a fight.

Maybe I've had too much coffee this morning, but I'm a little fired up.

[lisa58]

8. I want everyone to vote

[WolverineDG]

10. I saw Hillary folks eating their young on Saturday

The college kids who'd worked their butts off got rewarded with alternate delegate slots while old-timers who haven't done squat for Clinton, much less the Democratic party in DECADES, took all the delegate slots.

When one kid had the guts to challenge this, she was patronizingly told to sit down, shut up, she didn't understand, & oh, btw, be happy we made you an alternate.

Jeezus.

dg

[democrattotheend]

14. I don't get it

I don't know that much about the caucus process, but my understanding was that once the delegates are apportioned, each candidate's campaign chooses a slate of delegates to represent them. Is that not how it works in Texas?

[WolverineDG]

15. Delegate selection is done at the convention

At large delegates are appointed by the Nominations Committee, which was headed up by one of the dinosaurs who hasn't done squat for the party in years.

dg

[democrattotheend]

16. Don't call them "dinosaurs"

That's just as divisive as them looking down at us and treating us like spoiled trust fund babies.

[Irishonly]

11. A lot if it is ironic

My first election was McGovern and believe it or not we were treated the same way and many my age has forgotten we were called the same and/or worse. Everyone should vote and their voice be counted. I get tired of the ageism from both ends. BTW I voted for Kerry in 2004 and supported Edwards.

[Marrah_G]

12. Of course we want young people to vote.

There is mud slinging in all directions. People like to bundle people up in to groups when there are all types of people on both sides.

Yes we want you to vote....and I don't care who you back as long as you are involved.

[BumRushDaShow]

13. Those who were 18 in 1971 when the 26th Amendment went into effect are now turning 55.

It's ironic that some of those who fought for that amendment (due to Vietnam War and demanding that if one could be sent off to die at that age, then they should have the right to vote at that age) are now welshing out on it. Such a joke. I will say that this is definitely NOT ALL. There are many many who are encouraging the young ones to go out there and get involved.

As a tail-end boomer who is the same age as Obama, I'll tell you to not listen to the cynical ones. It wouldn't surprise me that many of those self-same cynics are those who spouted about not trusting "anyone over 30", only to have had the tables turned on them as they slowly evolved to be like the parents who they rebelled against. And this has got their minds scrambled because they have discovered that they really aren't Peter Pan who "won't grow up" and time DOES march on and they will age.

I won't grow up!
(I won't grow up)
No, I promise that I won't
(No, I promise that I won't)
I will stay a boy forever
(I will stay a boy forever)
And be banished if I don't!
(And be banished if I don't)

And Never Land will always be
The home of youth and joy
And liberty
I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up
Not me!
Not me!
Not me!
Not me!
No sir!
Not me!

[roguevalley]

25. I've never missed an election in my life. I expect others to vote

not because they have a specific reason to do it but because you do it EVERY DAMNED TIME in EVERY DAMNED ELECTION because that is what GROWN UPS (of every age) do. YOu do it period. If you don't then fuck you and don't cry to me. That is what I feel about elections. Either you vote in every single damned one or you are a dumbass.

[Lisa0825]

17. I have felt the parallels to campaigning for Dean as well.

And as a newly active Dem (I always voted, but hadn't campaigned for anyone since Ann Richards ran for Governor), it really was idsheartening to be insulted so often over my choice of candidate. If I hadn't found such a great group of local Dean supporters (BTW, they are all supporting Obama now!) to stick together with, I might have been disgusted enough to stop participating.

[PA Democrat]

18. You won't hear any criticism from me.

I love the fact that more and more young people are getting involved. And I think that in many respects your generation has much more at stake in the outcome of this election. I feel horrible about the debt that will be passed on to your and future generations, about the ongoing Iraq fiasco, about the state of the environment, about the freedoms that have been lost, about the rising costs of health care and higher education, etc.

My son will be voting in his first presidential election this year and I am proud of how well informed he is. My hat's off to the new generation of voters. We need your enthusiasm and energy.

[democrattotheend]

21. Since you're in PA, I have to ask

Is everyone in your household on the same page, or is there a generational divide?

[PA Democrat]

23. Three registered voters. All three will be voting for Obama.

It's really tough to make a decision, because it's unrealistic to think that any person can be the "perfect" candidate. I think we all arrived at the same conclusion for slightly different reasons.

Within our extended family, it runs the gamut. I am the only progressive in my entire family (makes for some interesting conversations to say the least), and the rest of my husband's family is split between McCain supporters and Hillary supporters.

[cooolandrew]

19. Keep the faith oh wise one. Turn off MSM tune in to novamaradio.com and..

headonradionetwork.com. Plaus Olbarman. Your life will be a lot sweeter. Just don't engage any clfict on Obama as soon as you sense hostility just make your excuses and move on.

[democrattotheend]

20. I rarely watch MSM except for Olbermann

Although I did watch Obama on Hardball yesterday...walked away feeling even more strongly about why I want this man to be president!

[Arkansas Granny]

22. I have voiced concerns on this board about the youth vote, but not

for their choice of candidate or lack of knowledge about the issues. My concern has been that they have historically been the lowest percentage of voter participation in past elections.

There is no doubt that young voters have been very enthusiastic and turned out in large enough numbers to have been an influence on the primaries and that most of their support has been for Obama. Will they be able to sustain that enthusiasm and still turn out this fall to vote in the GE? If Hillary is the nominee in the end, will they still come out and vote for the Democratic candidate? The answer to these questions could be crucial to the Democratic party.

I don't want to discourge young voters. You have a bigger stake in the future of this country than I do.

[DarienComp]

24. K&R

Every time I hear "Leave it to us grown-ups; we know what we're doing!", I think about Mondale, Dukakis, and 8 bloody years of Dubya.

[futureliveshere]

26. Great post on a relevant topic... K&R

The older people along with Hillary have a sense of entitlement to the White House. They are also by nature more intractable and less open to changing realities, more in favor of maintaining the ststus quo. Obama's candidacy to them is the candidacy of the young whipper-snapper who has the temerity to challenge the default candidate. According to them he should wait for his chance as he has youth on his side.

This is all about control. Please keep your spirits up and continue to do the great work you have been doing. This country will be grateful for our efforts when BO becomes the president and they see that their doomsday prophecies all come to naught. The proof of the pudding is in the eating and I have complete faith that BO will be one of the greatest presidents on America and definitely the most suitable for the dynamically changing global realities.