I know these threads never get any attention, but I'm still going to post them

[mudesi]

Because if the media won't do it, it's the least any of us can do. Last time I got 92 page views, but that's OK, because if those 92 people each told 2 people, and each of those 2 people told another 2 people, and so on, then maybe enough people won't forget that there is a war in Iraq.

One more soldier has been killed since my last thread, which I believe was only a couple of days ago.

4013

[redqueen]

1. .

.

[City Lights]

2. .

:patriot:

:cry:

[tekisui]

3. .

[Political Heretic]

4. God damn America.

Additionally...
29,628 US soldiers wounded

309 Allied Military killed

168 US Civilian Contractors killed

Iraq civilian casualties:
82,625 (min estimate) - 90,149 (max estimate)

Yeah... God damn America seems.... well, reasonable.

[silverojo]

20. God damn the war criminals...God HELP America.

Let's not turn on our wondrous country just because she's currently being held hostage by warmongering madmen.

[Political Heretic]

22. All the nation-state is is its government.

"America" isn't anything other than its government.

The people who happen to live in this geographical part of the globe are people, and I don't damn them.

[pnwmom]

41. Many of these people consider themselves Americans, even if you don't.

[vanboggie]

110. Sad isn't it

If they only realized they are Americans, just not good, truly patriotic Americans.

[1trackmindGOP]

94. It's not our country we turn on

It is the creeps who are pulling the strings and putting us in these quagmires...so when someone says GD America...they usually are not meaning it for what America is suppose to be, or toward you as a citizen of this nation, it is toward those elites who pervert and destroy every thing America is suppose to be about, and without sorrow, ruin or reputation and cause great damage to the innocent...that is what most are GD'ing, including Rev. Wright

[pnwmom]

39. These soldiers and their families are part of America.

So are the people who are still out on the streets waving their signs about the war.

So you want to damn them all, too?

[FightTheRight89]

47. Wow.

Why don't you leave if you hate this country so much?

[ekwhite]

50. Ah yes, America, love it or leave it...

I remember it well. It usually preceded "DIRTY F*ING HIPPIES!"

Try fighting the right by not acting like them.

[FightTheRight89]

51. Sorry if I take offense to the phrase...

"God damn America".

It's only my country.

[file83]

53. Our country.

There, fixed that.

[FightTheRight89]

87. I don't think that "my country" is really incorrect on any level.

But whatever.

[Political Heretic]

55. The world is my country.

And I'll live in any geographical corner of it I choose, for any reason I choose, without sacrificing my right to criticize criminality, hegemony, tyranny, colonialism, genocide and all the other things that the governmental institution known as "The United States" - a name given by the government to describe to government over a geographical location - has engaged in over the years.

Having said that, saying "God damn America" is really only to make a point - which is that the language, while potentially controversial, is not necessarily inappropriate in the face of our nation-states long history of brutal sadistic murder and violence in the name of its power interests. A better choice of words might be God have mercy on America or God forgive America.

People who say things like "if you hate America so much why don't you leave" never realize that this is a perfectly legitimate answer to that illegitimate question, which is because my life and love is about people, not a nation-state government. I stay for human beings that I love and, just like some go to other countries to work on social and humanitarian issues there, I work here to help people in the face of an increasingly oppressive government. I'm a social worker, and this geographical corner of my world that is under the yoke of extreme late stage corporate capitalism needs social workers.

EDIT - I should say a little more. The reality of my experience is a dichotomous one. There are things about living under this government that have afforded me incredibly privilege and opportunities, and there has been genuine historical progress on many fronts toward "a more prefect union." I am able to carry the contradictory feelings of God bless America and God "damn" America in my head at the same time - though again, there are better, less inflammatory ways to say things than God damn America - I would probably normally say something more like God forgive America or God have mercy on America for its indescribably history of violence and injustice that matches its history of progress and benevolence.

America is society of both incredible blessing and incredibly heartache.

[Kaleko]

57. Most people appreciate such a nuanced response, P H.

The majority of Americans is humane and decent. Just not grown-up enough yet to recognize psychopathic megalomania when it comes disguised as Christian patriots running an international protection racket.

[ExPatLeftist]

60. Excellent response. Truly appreciated by another citizen of the world! nt

[Mr Rabble]

67. Werd.

Simple concepts, that are seemingly very difficult to understand.

[FightTheRight89]

86. America is not just a government.

I am an American. My friends and family and neighbors and fellows all across this land are American. We've had some bad times, but we are a nation with common experiences, culture, language, and I'm sorry you don't feel that way.

[Political Heretic]

112. Your only "American" because an institution named a geographical place that.

You are you. Your friends and family and neighbors and fellows all across this "land" are your friends and family and neighbors and fellows all across this land. Would they be any less your friends and family and neighbors if you all lived further south? North? East? West?

The fact that somehow "American" got more important and holds more "value" in the minds of some, is sad.

[PatSeg]

97. Brilliant answer

Thank you!

[heliarc]

111. Well Said.

As the son of immigrants to this country who left their home because democracy had been destroyed by US covert operations, I know exactly your sentiment and share it. I have a great disdain for the US for making possible and supporting the torture of 80,000 Chileans who would have been my countrymen had Chile not been raped by Nixon and his friends' death squads.

Country does NOT come before the people themselves who work to make the nation serve their interests as a whole, and so by extension, no country should be above the people of any other nation if we can agree that people the world over deserve respect and dignity just as we do.

I don't hate America, but my immigrant past gives me pause at pronouncing my love for the nation state without loudly criticizing the actions that this country or any country takes to undermine the rights of ANYONE who shares with us this common human experience.

And we don't have to look to Chile or elsewhere to find these injustices too. Don't forget that dynamite blew the levees in the 1920s. Was it to protect the wealthy white neighborhoods of New Orleans? Why should the people of Louisiana trust our government now when they are chased down at gunpoint in a disaster area...

And when the police sic dogs on the people of Birmingham, Alabama? Why can't we Damn an America that enforces the law like that? -- a nation that sends the National guard into the neighborhoods of Detroit and Chicago, and then ignores the recommendations of the Kerner Commission report. http://www.africanaonline.com/reports_kerner.htm

I am constantly appalled with how our leaders conduct themselves. Clinton and Congress sold our media out to the consolidators, Bush sells out everything else. Why can't we show how incensed we are? Why the hell can't we hurl any manner of obscenities at these lapdogs when they prove themselves to sully the very Country they represent. To make no mention of ideals. Let's talk about Shame. Shame and damnation. I'm sick of being slapped on the hand because I'm willing to criticize this country.

[GoneOffShore]

81. The world is my country

[awoke_in_2003]

74. Unfortunately,

alot of Americans, including (apparently) the one you are responding to cannot grasp a concept unless it can be reduced to a bumper sticker. When faced with a truly troubling item which forces them to think (in this instance, the bad this country has caused) that love it or leave it attitude pops out. And, unfortunately, arguing with them will usually do no good- their opinions are set. I guess that is why the republican party has done so well the last 25 years.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

102. It makes me hate certain Americans.

There, I said it: I hate certain Americans. They make the rest of us look bad (at least to the uninformed, which is sadly the majority) unless we get down in the mud to play on their level. Then we're no better than they are. And then everyone is stupid and hated.

"God Damn America!", indeed. :grr:

[Fedja]

65. Estimates are dodgy

The US doesn't classify IED and bombing civillian deaths as "war deaths" in an attempt to tweak the numbers. The estimates of humanitarian organizations of "occupation-related civilian deaths" run at 800,000 - 1,100,000 last I checked.

[psychmommy]

100. i think we are damned as a nation until we do something.

as long as we allow this to continue, i a way we are complicit. for example the woman lives in the house with the drug dealer. they get busted-she gets a conspiracy charge for allowing it to happen in her home. we have allowed this to happen by our country hands. we didn't do it but we allowed it. we conspired by doing nothing. so we are partly responsible and we will be held accountable. send them suckers to the hague.

[DutchLiberal]

108. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians have died!

Your estimates must be really old.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. I am paying attention...

:cry:

K&R

:patriot:

[crankychatter]

6. k/r

.............

[shadowknows69]

7. What a freaking national shame this is

Thanks for your dedication LS

[here_is_to_hope]

8. ...

I pay attention because I dont give a rats ass who gets the WhiteHouse, I dont give a rats ass about tax cuts, foreclosures and all the rest.I care about ending this fucking war and I mean like yesterday.

My Father sat me on his knee in 1967 and told me about the Viet Nam war as we watched Walter on tv.
I find myself doing the same thing with my daughter as we watch Olbermann.
Makes me sick.

No more.



Thank you for taking the time, our soldiers did and gave all.
I will never forget.

[ekwhite]

52. In 1967 I was intensely interested in the Vietnam war

I knew it was only three years until my eighteenth birthday, when I had to register for the draft. I was lucky enough not to get drafted, but many of my friends and family weren't so lucky. Some of them never came back.

[The Wizard]

72. In May, 1967

I landed in Vietnam, and shortly after that came to realize that a large segment of the government was of, by, and for shysters and lying scumbag war profiteers. Wars are fought by the young so the old can feather their own nests. It's a racket as Semdley Butler said.

[here_is_to_hope]

92. I was 7 years old when my Father

explained that war to me. He was in the Marines, flying supply out of Guam and soldiers out of theater. His weeks of leave would always include war stories.
It was my mother who had me on her lap when we watched Nixon get elected...
I love my parents!

[BOSSHOG]

9. Thanks My Friend

Christian compassionate conservatism insists that more must die tomorrow so that those who died yesterday did not die in vain. Wouldn't it be great if ignorance and pride weren't conservative values and that someone would actually take responsibility for their actions. You keep posting My Friend. Thank You!

[Symarip]

10. .

Keep your eye on the prize.

[katsy]

11. Thank you.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

12. K&R

thanks, LS

[flor de jasmim]

13. Thanks for posting - I don't always look in, but I always pause and reflect.

[TomInTib]

14. You keep right on doing it, l_s.

I'm paying attention.

And so are a whole host of other folks.

KnR

[Hell Hath No Fury]

15. Sadly, you need a sensational headline...

with lots of caps and !!!!!!! to get much of a response these days. :(

Keep at it -- we need the reminder. :hi:

[not_too_L8]

16. k&r

[Kool Kitty]

17. God dammit.

We need to get these soldiers home. Now.

[Steely_Dan]

18. Thank You

for posting this. With all the crap going on in "politics," we tend to forget what is important.

-P

[NEOhiodemocrat]

19. I am paying attention

I told my sister the other day when I saw your number and she said 'but it was just 4000 last I heard'. We all need to be talking about this waste of life.

[polmaven]

73. I'm sorry, I know you were talking about your sister,

but "just" 4000? Wow.

"Just" one is bad enough.

[lisa58]

21. rip

[Georgie_92]

23. That's just awful, I'm so grateful my hubby came home alive.

[midnight]

24. Let's bring them home-NOW!!!!!

[Lochloosa]

25. ....

[AZBlue]

26. K/R!

[grantcart]

27. ..

[L0oniX]

28. K&R

[jjr5]

29. .

[varelse]

30. I want their brother and sister soldiers home now

I want them home alive
I want them home whole
I want them home to the same country they fought for, and not a puppet-run shadow of the home they left to defend...

NOW

[DesertRat]

31. a sad k&r

[Blondiegrrl]

32. My newspaper publishes a running tally of war dead every day on the front page.

The neo-cons hate it. Heh.

http://wvgazette.com/Page%20A1.pdf

(Lower left corner, black box. The numbers are a bit behind because it was based on the AP's tally yesterday.)

So SOME of the media is still paying attention. :)

[puebloknot]

33. K&R Thank you. nt

[Tresalisa]

34. !

[Andrea]

35. K & R

there's nothing else to say anymore

[ClayZ]

36. .

K and R

[pnwmom]

37. You can never post this too often. K & R.

[pnwmom]

38. Is there a place where people can always go to to see what the current

number of dead (and injured) is?

I'm thinking about making a tag, and hanging it from my purse.

[GoneOffShore]

77. For the most comprehensive coverage of dead and wounded

Go here http://icasualties.org/oif/

It's extraordinarily sad.

Every time someone glorifies military might and warriors I think of this -

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.
Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!-An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime...
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulce_et_decorum_est_pro_patria_mori

[pnwmom]

85. Thank you! And thanks for the powerful poem.

I've read poetry from that period, but never by that poet.

[sce56]

40. . . . - - - . . .

[totodeinhere]

42. And if we don't get it together and stop bickering among ourselves...

we might get at least four more years of this tragedy.

[Maureen1322]

63. That is the most important thing,

We must end this war, bring our soldiers home and help them return to a normal life. This will be impossible with McCain. That should be our goal. Go Dems!!

[JDwho]

43. This whole war is so sad

Yet, I say "God Bless America", for America is not our government, but we the people that inhabit this nation. Question our leaders, if you want to call them that, for making decisions on behalf of greed instead of their citizens. I know, I know...what day and age must I believe I'm living in? I believe in our troops and thank them for protecting our country when it needs it. I guess, as far as we know the count is now over four thousand. That's just what we know. With so many speaking out against this crime of unwarranted war, I hope that the new Commander in Chief will keep their promise to bring these men and women home. In the meantime, I'm sure these men and women wouldn't be offended if we pray, hope, wish for them. Whatever it is an individual decides to do. I'm not convinced they wouldn't appreciate a sincere "God Bless America" either. So, I pray for peace...and soon. Perhaps, one day with our encouragement, decisions will again include 'We the People'. JMO. Thanks for posting this information, Lynyrd Skynyrd. Nice name, BTW.

[southlandshari]

44. Thank you

for posting this

[myrna minx]

45. .

[walldude]

46. Made the front page bro...

Excellent.. tired of seeing crap on there..

[Radio_Lady]

48. This one got my attention, so you did good! Blood on the hands of the

"Bush Crime Family."

I still cringe at the thought of it -- just as I did when I first heard Mike Malloy say it.

Cannot wait until this election is finished and done with.

Turn the page....

to a better future.

Thanks for remembering.

4031

4031

4031

In peace,

Radio Lady in Oregon

"The first female talk show host with a daily call-in radio show in Boston, Massachusetts!"

[ekwhite]

49. Thanks for reminding us why we care about the elections

We need to remember that while we are bickering on this board, our soldiers are in a real war in Iraq, not an internet flame war. Every day we remain there is one day too many.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

78. We do care about elections and our country, THAT's why we have to vote for a dem...

even if we have to hold our nose to do it, because ANY democrat is better for us than insane McCain.

:patriot:

[GOPBasher]

54. Thank you, and rec'd. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

56. one more, and then one more, and then one more.......

It has to end. Soon.

[chknltl]

58. Question; HOW MANY HAVE DIED IN AFGHANISTAN????

sorry. I wanted that particular question noticed as well.

[nolabels]

99. The question with all the fraud we have seen within the four letter presidency............

what irrefutable evidence has been presented that it was this master plan by this so called cave dweller that was supposedly holed up in Afghanistan?

[SunsetDreams]

59. k&r

Bring them home!

[Bongo Prophet]

61. Many more than that, because they changed the counting methods.

And that is of course only the US military.
Add the journalists.
The UN workers and other NGO workers.
etc.

And the largest numbers of all, Iraqis. Over a million.
And counting...or not.

A soldier's life is worth no more than any other.
Good post on what matters though, LS.
Just expanding on your point. :thumbsup:

[Fedja]

66. A soldier's life is worth no more than any other.

In the face of war, I can't help but see a military casualty as less of a problem.

A soldier signed up for war. He took on a job you do with a gun. He knew what the risks were, even if he is fighting a war he disagrees with, or would if he knew more about it.

A civillian was born and raised in a region, he did not go to war, war came to him.

[Bongo Prophet]

68. I agree with that, just didn't want to pile that point on top of the other.

I tend to get too convoluted in that regard, making for (too) long rants.
Your point is well taken, Fedja. :hi:

[snappyturtle]

62. Sad. Don't you really wonder how many have died...the REAL number?

I know I've heard that the ones who die in flight or in Germany aren't listed. Do you know if that's true? BTW-K&R

[Tyler Durden]

64. THESE are the threads that should blanket this board.

SHAME on BOTH of our candidates for not insisting on immediate and unconditional withdrawal from Iraq.

[il_lilac]

69. k&r

and thank you

[crankychatter]

70. kicked again

yep

[MissDeeds]

71. This is a national disgrace

And each and every person in this country who has remained silent bears some of the shame.

[senseandsensibility]

75. please keep kicked

This should stay at the top of the page.

[yellerpup]

76. Thank you. n/t

[quantass]

79. .

[rtassi]

80. I'm paying attention, I just don't post much Thank You! N/T

[crankychatter]

82. kicked

again

[0007]

83. Check out the links and photos of the county we want to rob

http://www.bamjam.net/index.html

[DrZeeLit]

84. This (posted pic) on my car. EVERY DAY. Thank you for reminding us.

[Coexist]

88. do you cross post this in GD?

[Ysabel]

89. k and r (n/t)...

[Erin Elizabeth]

90. God.

:cry:

[Norrin Radd]

91. attention

[NikolaC]

93. K&R

:cry:

[fascisthunter]

95. I Think You Nailed My Reason for Disliking Hillary: DLC

I have watched them the past several years undermind many progressive/liberal democratic initiatives and causes, only to protect and enable Bush and the GOP. Do I "hate" Hillary? I wouldn't call it hate, but if I were angry enough at some other thing she may pull, I might say as much, not sure I hate her. Hate is a very real and over-used term. When I see pictures of death and destruction, I think of hate. When I see folks saying nasty things about a politician, I think anger.

[nomaco-10]

96. murikans have become complacent about the iraq war now....

they have become more concerned about the price of eggs, milk and gasoline, not even cognizant of the plight of the Iraqi people. Our new mantra has become, "How does this effect me NOW", to hell with everybody else on the planet and what they are suffering, I need cheap gas and groceries."

The six months paid for deal with the shias has come to an end and apparently another deal can't be brokered.

It is, and will always be for me, that this bull shit war has not only caused the death of 4,000 americans, but the deaths of as many of 750,000 IRAQI citizens. Sometimes I think this board loses sight of these critical, bloody facts and chooses to fixate on trivial minutia involving the two candidates, like hillary, out of touch and unfunny on Leno.

How sad it is that we are sidetracked by lame bowling and unfunny, forced jokes by hillary when the real stakes are so much more important.

I choose Obama, because the other option has become as abhorrent to me as mccain at this point.

[defendandprotect]

98. We've been at war five years, with abuse and neglect of our troops and

seemingly total disregard by the White House for the daily toll ---

It's numbing ---

And bodies are returned home and unloaded in the dark of night ---
just like Hitler did it.

[blayne]

101. k&r

[Deep13]

103. That's horrible, of course...

...but what I can't get out of my head is the tain wreck we have made or Iraq with I don't know how many dead civilians and the bankrupt state of our treasury. We can't do any of the stuff we have been wanting, health care or education reform for example, because we are worse than broke.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

104. Present

K&R

[sandyj999]

105. I'm 72 so I have seen a few wars begin and a few end but........

This is by far the most sad, most immoral and most futile of them all. And I can't forget, it's always there.

[DutchLiberal]

106. Do you also post threads counting the number of dead Iraqi civilians?

[shagsak]

107. K&R

keep this at the top.

[pleah]

109. k&r

:cry:

[pettypace]

113. 4013 volunteers

And for perspective sake -

Vietnam - 58,000+
Korea - 37,000

Your post would have been more enrapturing if you highlighted the number of estimated Iraqi's that have met their end since 3/19/03.