Obama now wants to stay in Iraq?

[OzarkDem]

Just watching Hardballz with plenty of Obama fluffing about how he is going to be "tough on Iraq and defense". Yet he didn't answer any questions about exactly what he plans to do.

He sounds more like the Chimp every day. Ask him a tough question and he dodges it by attacking someone else then talking tough on defense. WTF? Haven't we had enough of empty suits with no experience for the last 7 years?

Obama supporters, how can you support a candidate who can't even bring himself to say what he's going to do about Iraq?

[TheWraith]

1. God, that's rich. Somebody who backs the war supporter claims the other guy isn't anti-war.

Supporter of the person who's running to the right and working their way through the Rove playbook claims that the other guy sounds like Bush.

Clinton campaign tactic number one: whatever nasty thing you're doing, accuse the other side of it first.

[OzarkDem]

11. Obama has coopted GOP brainwashing tactics

How dumb can someone be to say Clinton is pro-war. Crawl out of your basement and get some objective information.

[DerekJ]

19. Yep she is not anti-war, she just votes for it.

[OzarkDem]

23. Obama votes for it

No different.

The difference is, Clinton tells you how she'll get out.

Obama attacks and dodges the question, ala the Chimp.

[DerekJ]

30. Don't deflect.

Voting for funding the troops when not doing so will be a great harm when there is no strategy in place yet for them to get out is both a political suicide, and military disaster, which will cost many
lives.

Crawl out of your basement, and get a life.

[OzarkDem]

68. He needs to talk about getting out

The argument about Obama's votes supporting the Iraq War are the same as those for Clinton and the IWR. Neither one can be blamed for the war, only Bush and the GOP.

So instead of playing the weasel and attacking Clinton for something he also did, he should be talking about how we're going to get out of Iraq.

[Mooney]

76. I love people who promote temselves as the solution to the problem they helped create.

It's called "give with one hand, take away with the other."

Hillary Clinton voted for the war. The excuses for this come fast and furious, but it doesn't change the facts. Hillary Clinton voted for the war. She was either an idiot for believing Bush or she was casting a purely cynical vote to make herself look "tough" for her presidential run. Hillary Clinton voted for the war. Whatever she says about ending the war is not credible for one simple reason. Hillary Clinton voted for the war. No amount of deflection can change the facts. Hillary Clinton voted for the war. No amount of attempting to obscure Obama's original antiwar stance by stating that he's as bad as her will change her complicity. Hillary Clinton voted for the war. Obama gave a speech in 2002. Hillary Clinton voted for the war. Attempts to paint her as somehow progressive are completely hollow and based on bullshit. Hillary Clinton voted for the war. If she was the "fighter" she claims she is, she would have opposed the war when it mattered, but she didn't. Hillary Clinton voted for the war. No amount of deflection, blame, equivocating or rationalizations will ever change it. Hillary Clinton voted for the war.

Hillary Clinton voted for the war. That's nice that she pretends to know how to get out of it, but she's actually completely full of shit.

Hillary Clinton voted for the war. C-R-Y.

[kmsarvis]

38. THEN EXPLAIN TO ME...........

WHY HE APPEALS TO THE COLLEGE EDUCATED DEMOGRAPHIC. CLINTONS BASE LOOKS MORE LIKE THE REPUBLICANS BASE ,UNDEREDUCATED WHITE PEOPLE.

in response to the gop brainwashing part.

[PA Democrat]

78. Did you bother to READ the entire story. Or are you purposely omitting this:

In an interview yesterday, a senior Obama foreign affairs adviser, Susan Rice, said the Iraq working group is not the last word on the campaign’s Iraq policy.

“We have experts and scholars with a range of views and Barack appreciates this range of views. They are in think tanks and like me they write in their own voice, they are people who do their independent scholarship. Barack Obama cannot be held accountable for what we all write,” she said. Ms. Rice said she had not seen the paper, which is marked as a draft and “not for attribution without author’s permission.”

Mr. Kahl yesterday said, “This has absolutely zero to do with the campaign.” He added, “There are elements that are consistent with the Democratic Party’s approach, and I will leave it to others to find out if there are elements that are not.”



http://www.nysun.com/

[panader0]

2. No, I can't support a candidate who voted for the war.

[OzarkDem]

18. Obama's fairy tale - yes, he voted for the war

many times.

Why are you letting him convince you that he didn't when you know he did? Isn't that a problem when a candidate conditions you to not think critically or objectively? Would you prefer to live in fantasy land, get Obama in office and then wake up and realize we're still there two or three years from now?

Why can't he answer straight questions about Iraq and Iran?

[DerekJ]

26. Voting for funding the troops is not voting for the WAR. The only one who needs some

objective information is you.

[JoFerret]

60. Rapturous is the nonsense of the true Obama fan

...who believes Obama is the new world order of peace.

I put MONEY on it right now he will be a warmonger president. He will be forced to be. He has no choice. I don't think it is what he WANTS. But that's how it will be.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jody]

4. BO is a political chameleon, he'll "change" his position to whatever seems appropriate at the moment

[Texas Hill Country]

7. bingo

[NJSecularist]

15. double post

whoops

[NJSecularist]

17. You mean like Hillary? n/t

[RememberWellstone]

24. Bingo +2

I have just finished his book and this seems to be one of his approaches to winning people over. Just say what you know they want to hear. Do the dance and get your way in the end.

[polmaven]

31. Bingo +3..I do believe

that wins the jackpot!

[DerekJ]

34. Really?!!

:wtf:
Was his speech against the war the most appropriate thing of the moment, or was it when he refused to throw his pastor under the bus even under the pressure of some of his own supporters an act of a chameleon??!

Piss off.

[jody]

42. For a Canuck, you do get upset over our election. n/t

[Forkboy]

44. Seeing as though we Americans have a habit of pissing on the world I don't blame him.

[jody]

50. True we have done that but, we've also done more good than any other nation in modern history. n/t

[DerekJ]

47. Every time, I swear every time, somebody can't refute my argument, he turns to my nationality.

It's becoming so predictable of a pattern, I can guess when that kind of post is coming.

I can show you right now 3 or 4 posts like this.

:rofl: :rofl:

[jody]

49. Refute your argument! We are exchanging opinions, that's all. Have a nice day. n/t

[DerekJ]

54. You need to go back to school.

In the course of the discussion you’ve stated an opeinion. In that openion you argued that Obama changes his position like a chameleon.
I argued back refuting your original argument by stating two examples where he took the opposite position.
That’s number one.

Number 2. If we are having an “Exchange of opinions” Last time I checked the dictionary I didn’t see the American flag beside those words.

And if you can’t figure out why a “Canuck” gets upset about this election I will give you two clues:

Canadian Armed Force, Afghanistan

http://www.theage.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1051876891303_2003/05/03/ali,0.jpg

Picture: REUTERS
Ali Ismail Abbas, 12, lost both arms and suffered burns to 20 per cent of his body during the bombing of Baghdad. He was also orphaned.

[jody]

56. If you Canucks want to leave Iraq, you have a personal problem with your PM. n/t

[DerekJ]

57. You don't even know who is helping your own country in Iraq?!!!

WTF are you doing on a political message board.

We are helping you in Afghanistan not in Iraq. We helped you when you needed our help against AL Qaeda. You know what happened after that, right?! We got stuck with the fucking bill (in money, and our soldiers life), while you went ahead an initiated an illegal war.

Nice, Thank You by the way. It’s like: "HA , HA, you Canadian foooools, who told you to help us".

[jody]

61. Always glad to help educate the ignorant. Read the link below for an overview of Canada's limited

involvement in Iraq that continues to this day.

Canada and the Iraq War

Have a nice day. :hi:

[StevieM]

48. We might as well just elect McCain (he won't run for a second term) and prey that JP Stevens can

hold on for four more years. He is in good health and people live longer these days.

If we elect Obama, then he will be as troubled as Carter was. And just as there never could have been a Reagan, had there not been a Carter, there could never be a Romney if there is not an Obama. President Obama will be followed by President Romney.

Even if Obama replaces Stevens, Ginsberg and Souter, President Romney will replace Anthony Kenndy and the Supreme Court will be gone forever. Better to let Clinton or O'Malley come back 4 years later and give us 5 new justices in their first term.

Steve

[jody]

52. I agree that SCOTUS appointments are at least as important as winning the Oval Office. n/

[krabigirl]

55. yep

[rurallib]

5. I watched that show twice and that isn't what I saw at all

[PresidentObama]

6. You mean the guys whose been against the war from the start? Nice distortion.

Too bad your candidate has never stopped acting like John McCain on foreign policy.

[OzarkDem]

20. Against it every time he voted for it?

Wake up, he's lying to you.

[jobycom]

21. Wrong. His first vote on Iraq in the Senate was to keep the troops in Iraq.

The only times he's been against the war is when he was running in a local district that was 90% opposed to it, and recently when he figured he could spin that one speech to his advantage. His position on the war has been the same as Clinton's in everything except his spin and the opinions of his supporters.

But hey, go get fooled again. We'll still be here when you get back.

[OzarkDem]

25. That's voting for the war, not stopping it

Why hasn't held hearings on getting out of Afghanistan?

[karynnj]

64. For two reasons:

1) Since the beginning of the year, there were 2 full committee hearings on Afghanistan and one in the near east and south Asia subcommittee. The head of the full committee (Biden) and the head of the near east and south Asia subcommittee (Kerry) have also both been to Afghanistan many times and 2 of the strongest people in the Democratic party on foreign policy.

2) People like Kerry and Feingold (who wrote a joint bill in 2006) are arguing for MORE TROOPS in Afghanistan - so they can provide the security to allow this country to rebuild and to transistion away from providing an astonishing percent of the world's heroin.

Not to mention that voting for the funding bill is also done by people like Kennedy - abruptly cutting off the funding would not end the war. I look at who Senators are supporting - Kennedy,Feingold and Leahy were 3 of the most adamant people who spoke out against the war and Kerry has been leading on creating an exit plan - it is noteworthy that they all endorsed Obama.

[Unsane]

8. Do you ever tell the truth about ANYTHING?

[OzarkDem]

27. Can't answer the question?

Why won't he talk about getting out of Iraq? Why is he ramping up his "strong on defense" message to attract more GOP men voters? That's saying he doesn't plan to get out of Iraq.

[cali]

35. Never.

Congenital liars are beyond repulsive.

[walldude]

9. You just compared Obama to Bush.

Nice... You really believe he sounds more and more like Bush every day? You actually believe that? Then maybe the party is doomed.

[rodeodance]

72. more like BO is McCain-Lite

[VolcanoJen]

10. You're twisting and parsing, par for the course.

I know you put your fingers in your ears every time Obama speaks, but see, when you do that, you actually miss him explaining quite patiently what he intends to do to stop "dumb wars."

The more important question is, how can you support the pro-war candidate in this election? "Ready From Day One" to acquiese to pressure from Chimpy. No thank you.

It's just nauseating.

[Neshanic]

12. You are correct. He did not answer the question.

[OzarkDem]

33. Imagine what Tweety would have done

if Hillary had answered the question that way?

[Neshanic]

36. There would be a flurry of yellow feathers, and subsequent replay forever of it.

[Cant trust em]

13. Here we go again....

Engage calming defense in 3, 2, 1....:7

[jobycom]

14. He voted for the war the first chance he got.

When he finally made it to the Senate, his first vote on Iraq was against the withdrawal of troops. Everyone here should remember his debate responses, refusing to promise he would pull the troops.

Don't even try to tell me the lie that he would have voted against the IWR. Even Obama admitted he might have voted for it, before he decided he could get more mileage pretending to be against it.

A different kind of politician? Wrong. Same old dude, only without experience.

[zulchzulu]

22. So should Obama vote against the troops having protection or vets having coverage?

Yeah, I know. It's easy to spit in the wind. Wipe that shit off your face.

[Unsane]

29. I guess you'd prefer him to be politically nonviable by voting against troop funding

(which is NOT the same as supporting the original mission)

[OzarkDem]

39. He needs to answer the question

about how he will do a better job of getting us out of Iraq than Clinton.

Can you answer it for him, or do you agree that we should stay there indefinitely?

[Unsane]

41. Are you too lazy to look the answer up yourself?

Or are you just trying to stir up shit? Go to his website (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/) if you're genuinely interested.

Has Clinton said whether she supports permanent military bases in Iraq?

[karynnj]

65. Has Clinton answered how she would be better getting us out than Obama?

Have you bothered to listen to the testimony this week - especially that at the SFRC. It is terrifying - the situation is not getting better. It is really not an option to stay there indefinitely. You are just mad because he used the answer to score political points against HRC rather than answer it.

[rodeodance]

70. In one of there first TV debates she outlined how to get out safely--You are not keeping up

[karynnj]

73. Obama has done the same

In Clinton's case, it was jarring as it was completely different than what she had then recently said in a long NYT interview.

As to keeping up -- did you follow what is being said about Iraq this very week - while the media speaks of Bosnia and Wright?

Here's a link to a summary of some of what was said containing a link to the video of the hearing.
http://www.johnkerry.com/2008/4/2/some-straight-talk-on-iraq-part-1

[zulchzulu]

16. Sniper fire! Duck! Quack! Quack!

Obama has been very clear on what he would do with the war that Hillary voted for. Check out his web site. Watch the speeches.

As for Hillary, has she seen any sniper fire recently?

:rofl:

[OzarkDem]

28. When is Obama going to get out of Iraq & the ME?

Can any of you give us an answer to that question?

[Neshanic]

40. No they can't. Because he will not. He will not be the Democrat that is a "cut and runner".

So he will parse every sentence, and every answer and avoid at all costs a situation that can be brought back to haunt him. As if it matters, since he's not gettingthe WH.

[OzarkDem]

66. He didn't even attempt to answer the question

All he did was use it as an opportunity to attack Clinton for her IWR vote.

That's not a solution.

[cali]

32. That's completely false. You pulled it directly out of your rear

And if you're really so delusional that you believe that's what you heard, you need serious help. Sick.

[cornermouse]

37. Just more of their continuing delusions and illusions about Obama.

If he gets in the White House there are going to be a lot of disillusionment on this website.

[karynnj]

69. I for one do not think that all wars will end by the end of January 2009

This is not a children's cartoon - the Care Bear Stare won't work. What is clear is that it will be dangerous getting out. We are not where we were in 2003 or 2004 where there was a chance, with the leverage from the region, to get at least a semi functional government in place and move first to the rear and then out. We are even beyond just a Shite/Sunni civil war - it's worse than that.

Consider this terrifying scenario a general presented to the SFRC. We could see a portion of the Iraqi Army with say 5000 American trainers transform itself overnight into a partisan militia - putting those men at risk. Obama is on this committee - he is getting this information - likely both from his staff there and Kerry and Dodd, who are on the committee. (Here's a link to some comments on that hearing with a link to the hearings themselves. http://www.johnkerry.com/2008/4/2/some-straight-talk-on-iraq-part-1 )

I have no illusions - whoever becomes President will have an unprecedented number of near insurmountable problems. I do think it strange that an Edwards person who say that the Obama people have delusions - you yourself had to make a leap of faith that Edwards would and could do everything he said he would - even though it was not consistent with anything in his 2004 primary campaign or his Senate career.

[LittleClarkie]

43. If he won't say, then your headline is misleading

Did he say he now wants to stay in Iraq?

Meanwhile, your candidate has to make up snipers so that she can appear tough. Glass houses, doncha know.

[not_too_L8]

45. chimp? very poor use of words

[LadyVT]

46. In Jan., he said he wanted to move Iraqi troops to Pakistan and Afghanistan

Where they can fight the terrorists...

[WinkyDink]

51. I heard him with my own 2 ears last Monday say his plan would take 16 months, to bring home

every brigade, 2 a month.

[jody]

53. Such statements ignore reality because we must keep perhaps 100k+ troops in Iraq for air & logistics

Only someone who is grossly ignorant of military operations could make such a statement.

Why does BO ignore his competent military advisers?

[AX10]

58. He's a politician.

He knows that the US cannot leave Iraq ASAP.
A timed withdrawal is the only thing that will work. He is reneging on his unrealistic campaign promise. He's an ordinary political-type. Most of them do this.

[JoFerret]

59. Obama - uniter and compassionate conservative

= Bush Lite.


(It IS n improvement on the real thing but not exactly change)

[AlertLurker]

62. PRESENT.

[shaniqua6392]

63. I agree that he does dodge questions every time.

My husband and I watched him on Hardball and were really paying close attention to whether or not he actually answered questions. He totally dodged questions and came up with answers that had very little to do with the actual question. Yet the people just kept clapping. It is very confusing and he is very good at deflection.

[rodeodance]

67. BO is McCain Lite.

[joshcryer]

71. Heheh, you guys are quite organized.

Cute bump.

[rodeodance]

75. deserves a good bump. Thanks for yours

[rox63]

74. His exact plans will depend on what the situation on the ground is when he takes office

He would be foolish to cement his withdrawl plans without knowing what the situation on the ground will be when he takes office. If he promises one thing now, and finds out later that it would put our troops in danger, folks will say he broke his word.

[lefty from jersey]

77. Watching the wind

Obama is coming down to reality. The reality of being commander-in-chief rather than the chirping candidate. Reality is a bitch. No one, repeat no one is pulling troops out of Iraq in 60 days. Forget the health care, the foreclosure crisis too. They are not going to happen either. Campaign politics for the masses.

[madrchsod]

79. i try not to be as cynical as you are

but you are right...

[stillcool]

80. What he plans to do?

is end the war in Iraq! How is he going to do that? By becoming President! What specific plans does he have?

Bringing Our Troops Home

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.
Press Iraq’s Leaders to Reconcile

The best way to press Iraq’s leaders to take responsibility for their future is to make it clear that we are leaving. As we remove our troops, Obama will engage representatives from all levels of Iraqi society – in and out of government – to seek a new accord on Iraq’s Constitution and governance. The United Nations will play a central role in this convention, which should not adjourn until a new national accord is reached addressing tough questions like federalism and oil revenue-sharing.
Regional Diplomacy

Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq’s neighbors — including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq’s borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq’s sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq’s reconstruction.
Humanitarian Initiative

Obama believes that America has a moral and security responsibility to confront Iraq’s humanitarian crisis — two million Iraqis are refugees; two million more are displaced inside their own country. Obama will form an international working group to address this crisis. He will provide at least $2 billion to expand services to Iraqi refugees in neighboring countries, and ensure that Iraqis inside their own country can find a safe-haven.