She's too "tough" for me....

[RazBerryBeret]

I've been thinking about this a lot. I'm an Obama supporter who will vote for either candidate in the election. I was a Bill Clinton supporter and defender. I've been thinking about why it is that I'm not jumping for joy at the chance for a female president, it seems like it should be a win-win situation, right?

I think my hesitation is simply because Hillary Clinton is too Tough. She goes out of her way to be/appear tough. Starting with the Iraq war vote -- I know we've heard this a million times. But look she voted for a resolution that was aptly titled "A Joint Resolution to authorize the use the United States Armed Forces against Iraq". Was it really a big surprise when Bush used the forces? I wasn't surprised, I remember when the resolution passed, I was hoping and hoping that it wouldn't come to pass, but I can't say I was surprised when it did.

Give her the benefit of the doubt, maybe she really didn't think it was going to happen. But then she'd have to admit she was fooled by Bush. (hmmm) But then in 2007 she voted to label the Iran military branch a "global terrorist organization". Did she fall for it again?

Add to the mix her 2006 vote to NOT ban the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas. This was supposedly because she didn't want to look "weak" on foreign policy. She would rather politicize an important vote than honestly vote morally....I don't think anyone of us would have thought less of her if she'd voted to ban the cluster bombs. I would have admired her for sticking up for what is right. How can you defend cluster bombs in civilian areas? We've seen photos of some of the results.

Now this week she had likened herself to Rocky Balboa, she's re-running the 3 am call. She keeps saying she'll "fight" for me. She's a fighter. She's in it to win it. She won't give up. I get it. Compare and contrast that with Obama's message that he can't do this without all of us, this is "our" time. Call me whatever you want (probably already heard it). But I prefer the idea of a movement, government by the people and for the people over the fighting, fighting, look how tough I am...I'm worried about how far she will go to show how tough she really is.

Maybe it's just me?

[LSparkle]

1. It's not just you ... I agree completely

I'm tired of the right/left wars of the '90s, of Bush's wars since 2001, of us fighting
each other instead of coming together to fix our country. Since 9/11, I think the
country has been wanting to unite, not to keep fighting. First Rove and co. divided
us back up to win elections and now we're told we need a fighter on OUR side in order
to "win" this "fight" we continue having. It's now spread into our own party, where
we're tearing each other apart.

WHEN DOES IT ALL STOP? At this point, I support Obama precisely BECAUSE he doesn't
want to fight anymore -- he wants to call a truce and have us sit down like ADULTS,
not like the adolescent Jets and Sharks we've been allowed to remain for the past
decade or more, and try and work this out. While we've been fighting, the BFEE has
shredded our Constitution, stolen our treasury and trashed our armed forces in their
wars for oil. ENOUGH. I don't want to fight anymore ... I don't want a "fighter"
in the White House. I want a calm, rational, diplomatic person who is truly seeking
SOLUTIONS.

[RazBerryBeret]

2. yes!

that's it! I hope we don't miss this chance. I'm not sure I can imagine what unity would feel like, although I'm pretty sure a lot of talking heads would be out of work (wouldn't cry over that either)!

[alarimer]

7. You sit down with snakes, you get bitten.

Every single damn time. THEIR idea of compromise is that WE give in. Every single damn time. I want those people to fucking die of lung cancer or something. I don't want to "dialog" with those fucking snakes; I want them held accountable. I want a full investigation of the crimes of the Bush cronies. And I want them all in jail. Our current situation is the result of right-wingers chokehold on the Repig party. It is not the Dems' fault, except to the extent that they have been lapdogs and spineless weasels. Obama and everyone else have completely rolled over for those maggots. They do not even deserve a place at the table.

[Yael]

3. She is an authoritarian with no charisma.

[RazBerryBeret]

4. right!

and charisma is something you just can't buy.

[Yael]

5. Yanno, if I thought it would help

http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Power-of-Charisma-Get-what-you-want-out-of-Life_W0QQitemZ140221558744QQihZ004QQcategoryZ378QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

:D

[RazBerryBeret]

10. Pretty funny!

who knew I could get all I want out of life for only $1.99...that's great!

[Beregond2]

6. Image

She is bending over backward to project the message "I am as tough as a man." I understand that for women of her generation, that has been necessary to compete. But it seems to me that a woman will be elected President precisely because she ISN'T like a man, not because she is a bad imitation of one.

It can be summed-up as "the pantsuit issue." Garish pantsuits are neither masculine nor feminine, but a vulgar mishmash of both. They are the perfect symbol of the inherent contradictions in the image she is trying to project.

I sympathize with her dillema, but she hasn't found a workable solution.

[RazBerryBeret]

9. Like the pantsuit analogy...

and I guess that sums it up....women AREN'T like men. hence the old credo "there'd be a lot less wars if a woman were President" .

[Yael]

11. Unless women vote for war

Just sayin'.

:P

[tularetom]

8. If you constantly have to tell people how tough you are

you ain't very tough.

[Asgaya Dihi]

12. Agreed

I know we have to be willing to use force or harsh tactics in politics when needed but we can't be too eager to show how tough we are or we become something other than what we've always claimed to be. There's a difference between self defense, revenge, and sending messages or making examples of people. Self defense is fine but the rest I'm done with. We've been tough on crime, had a war on terror, on drugs, we had a freaking war on poverty and even poverty kicked our ass, drug war has been lost for a long time too.

We've had enough of wars on "fill in the blank", enough tough on crime, enough tough tactics, enough of the whole mindset. Not just here or recently but for decades now. We really need smart. Maybe that's a war we can win, the war on getting tough. Think our way through it instead and we'd have a better chance. Tough hasn't worked out so well for us.

In another time she would have made a good candidate for what we thought we wanted at the time, but this campaign and what I'm seeing in it in general worries rather than assures me.

[RazBerryBeret]

13. great comments....

Smart, that's is EXACTLY what we need. especially after this present administration, we're going to need a whole lot of smart to clean up the mess.

[SeattleGirl]

14. It's not just you, RBB

I, too, get the impression that she's trying too hard to be tough. You know, I don't think Hilary Clinton is a wimp at all, but I also don't think she has to do some of the things she's done, said some of the things she's said, in order to prove she's not.

A few weeks ago, I wrote a piece about hope, and of course, some people scoffed at me. But damn, I am just freaking TIRED of us always posturing as the big tough guys or cowering before those who would posture as the big tough guys.

After 7+ years of the Bush Cabal, I need some hope. I need some inspiration. And I found that in Barack Obama, along with substance.

No, it's not just you.

[RazBerryBeret]

17. Hillary isn't a wimp, agreed.

but there's nothing wrong with being a strong woman. But still maintaining ideals.

I guess I really feel that the majority of her senate votes were made with the thought of how it would look on her record. That's not really doing your job well.

Hope and Inspiration would be good right now...
and yes, that's why I voted for Barack in March and I plan to vote for him in November.

[IndyHatedByBothSides]

15. It's got nothing to do with female or tough...

...but rather her character, race-baiting and gutter politics.

Both Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Boxer are women. Both project at tough image when need be - particularly Nancy in standing up to Clinton's fundraising goons. And they have done so with class.

[Rosemary2205]

16. I respectfully disagree.

I don't think she's trying to "appear" tough with her attack Iraq and refusal to ban cluster bombs etc. I think she genuinely is a hawk militarily speaking. Socially she's progressive sure, but I think that's probably the only place. I'm more apt to believe her more liberal talk on war and finances is the "appear to be" part. Just my gut feeling.

And IMHO she is, in the most secret parts of her being, a fighter. The woman lives for the battle. Political, personal. I bet her and Bill and 90% fireworks and 10% pudding - and quite frankly I think they were made for each other. We need fighters as well as huggers. I value her fightitude - directed productively of course.

Just a hunch based on 15 years of watching her.

[RazBerryBeret]

19. ok, all good comments...

but you still can't sell me on the cluster bomb ban...woman or man, it was a bad vote.

I HOPE she gives Bill 90% fight...that would make me admire her, after what she's been through.
after all the Partisan Politics, I have to say I'm tired of watching the fighting--not saying I want to throw in the towel...but we need to focus our energies on our problems--the big problems, economy, war etc. I don't want to sit through anymore "independent counsels" or proceedings. With the exception OF COURSE of any justice to the present War Criminals....THAT I wanna see!

[Rosemary2205]

21. I'll be honest

Hillary has much pissed me off - fighting in all the wrong places IMHO. If we could just aim her straight at the NeoCons - or better yet the most high elite economic predators who screw with the whole world (us included) for their own wealth and I think just plain laughs...... well, she has the potential to nuke them all back to the stone age.

Instead she's busy screaming about Judas and sniper fire. She's spent a lot of years fighting over petty crap instead of what matters. What a waste.

If only she could be redirected......

[Cali_Democrat]

18. This is a very good point

I think there's alot of truth to this. People ARE turned off by Hillary because she's trying to play the "macho man" when she should just be herself.

[RazBerryBeret]

20. Thanks Cali

I'm been trying to formulate this for a while--figure out why I just don't trust her or believe her...
I have friends who are supporting her 100% and even people on here who've called me a sexist because I'm not.

[Cha]

22. Nah, not just you..hilary went over the "tough" line

lone ago and into neocon delusion.

I'll give you this quote from the UKGuardian article I just read..

"Her insistence on making her candidacy about experience has shed light on parts of her character that might have been better left in the dark."


<more>
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/dylan_loewe/2008/04/the_writing_on_clintons_wall.html

[RazBerryBeret]

24. thanks Zidz.

that's a great article. I love the Bruce Willis reference.
I'll have to read the other US election blogs on that site. always interesting to see what other countries are thinking about OUR politics.

[Cha]

25. This Dylan Loewe from England has

a real handle on US politics and all the gory clinton dramas.

I really liked how he talked about her "open hypocricy" now.. "She is uncomfortable disenfranchising Florida and Michigan, but perfectly content tossing out the other 48".

The thing is if Obama were behind like clinton is..they would be screaming for his head and we know that's for real.

[NC_Nurse]

23. I found that repelling too. Haven't we had enough "tough" people who were

willing to use the military instead of stick with negotiations in Iraq?