Hillary Clinton is a Democrat. Period.

[cali]

And because she is:

- She will not run as an Independent.

- she'll back Obama if he wins the nomination.

- If she's behind by 100+ delegates and behind in the popular vote when
the primary season ends in June, she will end her candidacy. Yes, of course she currently says she'll take it to the convention. So did John Edwards.


I don't care for Clinton or the politics she practices. I won't go into that here. But she's not Lucretia Borgia. She's convinced that she's right and that she'd be the best nominee and best President. Hardly shocking, that. I'll venture to say that Obama feels the same and so does John McCain.

She's not a Repuke:

Repukes don't support getting out of Iraq. They don't support GLBT rights, or money for jobs training. They don't support cutting tax breaks for the wealthy. There isn't a repuke in the Senate that has a voting record similar to hers.

Sometimes it's difficult, in the midst of the GD-P melee and the negative campaigning, for me to keep in mind that both dem candidates are leagues better than McCain, and no matter how much you may dislike Hillary and her supporters here, or Obama and his supporters here, that's indisputable.

Claiming anything else is simply bullshit.

[Syrinx]

1. why does she suddenly claim "there's no such thing as pledged delegates?"

[cali]

3. Because she's desperate

and she's losing. I'd think that would be pretty obvious. And I believe that statements like that one, hurt her far more than the help her.

[Syrinx]

14. I must admit...

You are a complicated character...

[cali]

15. aren't most of us?

[Syrinx]

25. come to think of it

I hope so. :)

[mrJJ]

6. DLC mini rethug

Clinton is a leading member of the DLC (Republican-Lite) wing of the Democrat Party.

[DemVet]

7. Because, technically, it's the truth.

"Pledged" delegates can vote for whoever they wish at the convention. Sorry, but 'dems da rules. Don't like it? Work to change it.

[Cooley Hurd]

11. If they do, they'll destroy the party...

Is that what you, or your candidate REALLY want? Trust me, if things were reversed, and Clinton were in Obama's place, I would NEVER want the party to implode JUST so my candidate could get his way. NEVER, EVER.

[Recursion]

57. If Obama were in Clinton's place, he would have been forced out months ago

She had a lot of capital with the party and she's essentially burned through all of it by dragging this on.

[guyanakoolaid]

105. Hilarious since Clinton works so hard to usurp the rules on MI and FL that she agreed to beforehand

[joshcryer]

17. I agree with cali, she is deseprate.

Personally I don't see why one would spend their energy trying to court these pledged delegates, since it's highly highly unlikely any significant number of them will change positions.

[Cooley Hurd]

2. "...she'll back Obama if he wins the nomination."

I hope she will, but her praising of McCain still troubles me.

As much as I've found her distasteful as of late, I'll still vote for her if, by a miracle, she steals wins the nomination.

[Shae]

92. I found that troubling too ...

but she has subsequently stated that either she or Obama would be better than McCain, and no one ever mentions that she said that.

BTW--I think she's had horrible people to advise and run her campaign.

[PoliticalAmazon]

93. HRC's campaign indicates a Bush-Jr mentality. McCain hasn't shown that.

Clinton's campaign tactics, especially insulting Obama's supporters and the race-baiting, but also the secrecy, lies and willingness to break rules to get what she wants, are actually more worrisome to me than McCain's policies.

Voting for HRC does NOT mean the war will end or troops will be brought home. She has been, up to when it became politically expedient for her to become antiwar in the campaign, supportive of the war and resistant to bringing troops home.

The LATimes had an article about it, "Clinton on the sidelines in efforts to end the war. Despite her vocal criticism, records show she has done little to advance legislation to force a withdrawal of troops from Iraq." (Pg. A19, April 3, 2008, www.latimes.com)

[MethuenProgressive]

4. Nice post. Peace, cali!

:hi:

[DemVet]

5. I still think she WILL take it to the convention.

[cali]

9. Not unless she beats him solidly in most of the remaining races

I still believe that she cares more for the welfare of the country than her own ambitions, though clearly she sees the two as inextricably linked. In addition, if she doesn't sharply change the trajectory of the race, she won't have the ability to take it to the convention. Or the resources.

[vssmith]

31. She may be under the delusion

that the welfare of the country and her own ambitions are identical.

[my3boyz]

8. Nope...I honestly do not believe that she will back Barack

If she loses she will want McCain to win so she can run again in 4 years. Now I'm not saying she will be out there actively campaigning for McCain to win but I don't think she will lift a finger to help Barack. In fact, I think she will be down on her knees every night praying he does not win so she can have a do-over in 4 years.

[joshcryer]

18. The party would disown her. She's not stupid.

She may even quit politics altogether, this was her goal, she lost the goal, I'm sure it's extremely draining on her.

[NJSecularist]

29. Let's hope she honors he contract to the people of New York and stays in her senate seat until 2012

[joshcryer]

42. I'm sure she would, she might even try to get her health care reform passed.

But I think that she has been trying her whole life to be President, so it's hard for me to see it affecting her any better than it did Al Gore.

They're different personalities though.

[SwampG8r]

51. dont see it in her history

someone beginning their political carreer with the intention of running for president would build a state support system and start working locally
she moved to NY bypassed all local and went right to the senate
in all real reality she is the least qualified of anyone on either ticket
while i hope she smartens up and helps obama i dont see it happening
she has had a free political ride her whole life and fully expcted a lifetime of suppressing "bimbo" eruptions to take her there
she has created a fiasco of every endeavor she has undertaken
being next door to the president doesnt make you qualified to BE president

i lived near arnold palmer does that make me a golf pro?

[Recursion]

58. Really? Lieberman had very few consequences

Sure, he's lost his SD status but the Senate Democrats still kiss his ass because they need his vote.

[invictus]

81. He will lose reelection in 2012, if we have a good candidate like Lamont. n/t

[Arkansas Granny]

33. I can't find a link to the quote right now, but it was reported here a few days

ago that she was asked this question and she said she would support Obama if he was the nominee and urged her supporters to do the same. Maybe someone else knows where to find the quote.

[blonndee]

104. I tend to agree, although of course there's no way to know for sure until it happens.

But, I do think besides "not lifting a finger to help Barack," I also expect something more passive-aggressive a la the Kerry treatment. We've already seen that kind of stuff with the McCain praise from her and her husband. I also agree that she would hope that Barack would fail for her own selfish goals as opposed to the good of the party and the American people. Yes, I really think she WOULD hope for more suffering and failure if only it meant SHE could have another chance to run the show. Hillary is anything but a team player, IMO. She's a ball-hog.

[LiveLiberally]

10. K&R AND Thanks...

for stating truths that should be self-evident to all democrats.

[shaniqua6392]

12. Nice post Cali.

She is a Democrat and she is a United States Senator. She is deserving of our respect, even if we disagree with some of her views. Everything will work out in the end. We need to focus more on winning against McCain.

[irish.lambchop]

13. Of course she's a Democrat and would never run as an

Independent. If Obama is the nominee, I am curious as to whether or not she possesses the talent to bridge the emotional gap between Obama supporters and Clinton supporters, though. It will take great effort on both their parts but I think she will have to traverse a very rocky divide in order to do this.

[joshcryer]

21. She would. Many people think she's "Rethug lite" and "evil." By standing above the hateful rhetoric.

...she would make herself out to be a better person.

The same reason Al Gore didn't create an underground government when he won in 2000 (in his concession speech he explicitly noted his ability to create a second government; of course that would've resulted in civil war, but still).

Look at where he is now.

[cali]

35. it's absolutist thinking and it's something I think is pretty hardwired

into a lot of people, so we get the Saint Barack and The Demon Hellary narrative or we get Saint Hillary and The Demon Barack Hussein narrative. I have to fight against that tendency.

[joshcryer]

44. I thank you for it even though this thread will likely sink soon.

I've seen several threads like this by you, they sank pretty quickly unfortunately.

[joshcryer]

16. Oh cali.

I just like you the mostest of anyone here.

[Vinca]

19. All that might be true, Cali, but it appears she's hell bent on making

him unelectable in November, most likely to preserve her slot for 2012.

[joshcryer]

22. Please don't spout non-sense, Obama won't lose against McCain.

She'll bridge the gap. I think the best way is a unity ticket but even if she doesn't get the VP spot she'll help bridge the gap.

[Vinca]

26. I didn't say Obama wouldn't win - I said she's trying to make him unelectable.

As for the "unity" ticket, I think not. Her overall negatives are too high. Obama doesn't want to lose his Independents and crossover Republicans.

[joshcryer]

30. Such non-sense will end in June almost assuredly. And then the party will have months to fight.

This is not an especially controversial primary season for the politicians.

It is for the civilians because we didn't have an internet that was so pervasive with anonymous jerks who spout complete non-sense most of the time.

Really, it's not as bad as you make it out to be.

[Vinca]

32. Anonymous jerks? Gee, thanks. You're a real sweetie. nt

[joshcryer]

40. Wasn't directed at you necessarily.

But if you look at the commentary by people here it's pretty evident that they don't care about being civilized.

Mainly because they're anonymous.

[PoliticalAmazon]

94. Based on her actions to date, what makes you think she will support Obama? n/t

[Yael]

27. The ultimate goal of the Clinton Wing of the Democratic Party

[HereSince1628]

20. Don't be bringing up the period thing.

[cali]

24. lol. language is such a minefield, isn't it?

[HereSince1628]

28. Yes

And Hillary IS a Democrat.





















At least I take her at her word on that. As far as I know...

[Arkansas Granny]

23. Thanks cali. Nice post.

:thumbsup:

[easy_b94]

34. I don't know...I think she is going to turn into a Lieberman

[cali]

36. I don't see that at all

she cares about her legacy and Bill's. Those legacies are firmly tied to the Democratic party.

[joshcryer]

39. To what ends? Where did it get Lieberman? The guy has fallen into obscurity.

She'll follow Al Gore's example.

[invictus]

80. Lieberman is McCain's right hand man. The same McCain the Clintons keep praising. n/t

[PoliticalAmazon]

95. Very insightful. I agree. Good call. n/t

[crankychatter]

37. We'll see

I think the entrenchment and perpetuation of the campaign financing system as it's always existed, is the end and aim of war profiteers, among others.

I think they'll do anything to keep this old game going.

Obama ain't no saint... but he did conduct an end run around the PAC/campaign funding system through internet donations. That is very threatening to some interests.

I think you're right about Clinton but may underestimate the motivation of her backers.

I know... I'm a cranky old guy. But I've been watching credibly anti-war presidential candidates get mysteriously marginalized or outright assassinated since RFK.

I ain't a genius but I know a couple of things.

[redqueen]

74. Agree...

"I think you're right about Clinton but may underestimate the motivation of her backers."

We need to see those earmarks.

[invictus]

38. Hillary is exercising the Tonya Harding option on Obama so she can run in 2012.

The Clintons never cared about progressive issues. They only care about acquiring power.

[cali]

43. That's projection or speculation

It may or may not be true.

[invictus]

69. She keeps attacking Obama and praising McCain. She knows she cannot win. Her motive is obvious. n/t

[joshcryer]

46. Then why is she running on a platform with mandates and subsidies throughout?

Her policy proposals are quite progressive. Someone posted a thread here about how she was going to back down from them. She can't do that, it'd backfire.

[PoliticalAmazon]

96. The way she's run her campaign, and as long as she has stayed in, she can't run again...

She won't have the support, not from voters or financiers. That's why Romney got out so early...he wants to run again and doesn't want to torpedo his own chances.

[rodeodance]

106. BO first used the 'tanya harding' phase. What a smear on hillary he did.

[invictus]

41. If Hillary is a Democrat, why does she and her husband continue to praise McCain? n/t

[cali]

49. I think it's partly a way of trying to position herself as the best

possible opponent against McCain, partly a way to diminish Obama and partly a way to package attacking McCain.

[rodeodance]

52. If BO is a Democrat Why does BO praise Reagan and Bush I ??

[cali]

53. Why do you inevitably get caught up in stupid?

Fighting stupid with stupid makes both parties stupid. I understand falling into that trap occasionally, but falling into it every single time? Ack.

[Warren Stupidity]

56. ..

[rodeodance]

64. Sometimes I enjoy mocking silly posts.

[Buzz Clik]

86. Really. After giving me a scathing rebuke for supposedly mocking you?

I'd pretend to be shocked, but I'm not shocked.

[Buzz Clik]

85. That's one helluva question, and there is not satisfactory answer beyond the obvious.

[totodeinhere]

75. It's different. Reagan and Bush I are not running for president this time. McCain is.

And Clinton said that McCain is better prepared to be president than the leading candidate for the Democratic nomination is. To me, that's not being a real Democrat.

[bowens43]

45. She may be a Democrat

and when Obama gets the nomination she will give lip service to supporting him but you can bet , that behind the scenes, she will be working to undermine his campaign. Her eyes are now set on 2012.

Call it 'bullshit' if you like but if she really cared about anything other then her own ambitions, she would have dropped out by now.

[joshcryer]

48. No politician in their right mind would drop out with such a close race.

None. The spread is half a million votes. The PDs are disproportionately dispersed. The race is anyones.

If she had lost the SDs would have decided it already.

They haven't.

Thus she stays in, for better or worse. She's a fighter.

[Tammie]

47. Once again Cali

The voice of reason. Thanks for the post.

:thumbsup:

[dogday]

50. Spoken like a true Democrat

In the end we go back to us vs rethugs and we need every Democrat we can get to fight the media slime machine..... :hi:

[JohnnyLib2]

54. Sometimes the simple truth is best.

Thanks, Cali. Rec.

[Warren Stupidity]

55. True but now she is also GOP.

Our friends from the Clinton Lockstep Brigade have made this very clear. In fact it is a matter of pride with them.

[cali]

59. I don't see that

I just see her as someone who was utterly and completely convinced that this was her time, that she was destined to make history. Now, she's struggling where she expected an easy victory- and she's not dealing with it well. I don't see that as an exclusively repuke trait.

[Warren Stupidity]

62. G(oddess) O(f) P(eace)

It is their meme.

[redqueen]

73. Well at least now

that nickname makes some kind of sense. Cause she's a hawk if there ever was one.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

60. I agree, except the "Period" should be "Question mark."

[phrigndumass]

61. or "Asterisk" ...

Kinda like 61*












*as far as I know ...

[NYDem Observer]

63. I hope you're right

[undeterred]

65. Hillary is a DLC Democrat.

In the opinion of most, DLC has earned the translation "Democratic Leisure Class" or "Democrats who Love Corporations". The Clintons are Republicans who have made a little party called the DLC where they pretend to be Democrats. In my view, that's not a real Democrat.

[cali]

66. How many repubs support GLBT rights? How many

support healthcare reform? How many support withdrawing troops from Iraq? How many support killing tax cuts for the wealthy? How many support abortion rights?

[invictus]

68. Clinton opposes GLBT rights. Remember DOMA? DADT? n/t

[cali]

79. flat out bullshit. That's liike saying Obama opposes GLBT rights

because of McClurking. I hate stupid lies.

[harun]

67. She doesn't support getting out of Iraq, she supports a troop reduction

She totally plans on occupying the country indefinitely.

She doesn't support Universal Health Care she supports mandated Universal Health Insurance.

[still_one]

70. Very well put. You and I are on the same page, and I am an Obama supporter also /nt

[PoliticalAmazon]

71. HRC's actions say she is not interested in ending the war (LATimes)...

"CLINTONS ON THE SIDELINES IN EFFORTS TO END THE WAR
Despite her vocal criticism, records show she has done little to advance legislation to force a withdrawal of troops from Iraq"

www.latimes.com
Thursday, April 3, 2008, Pg A19

[invictus]

76. The truth is the Clintons support the Iraq War and an Iran War too. Her voting record and actions ..

... prove it. She voted for both the Iraq War Resolution and the Kyl-LIEberman bill.

[thewiseguy]

72. Do you run Hillary's campaign?

If not then stop acting cute here and answering those questions for her and her campaign. Thank you.

[cali]

77. what are you babbling about?

This is a message board. I posted an opinion. That's what we do here, genius.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

82. gee, more meaningless crap from you.

Impressive.

[thewiseguy]

83. You fail once again. :)

[Buzz Clik]

84. "Claiming anything else is simply bullshit." Let's just say it's speculation.

Many of us have been astounded at some of the things she's done and said. You chose not to elaborate on them, and neither will I.

She has inflicted serious damage on the Party and both remaining Dem candidates. But, as you say, we should assume that she will right her ship and give her unconditional support for Obama if he wins. I'd expect nothing less from Obama.

[Bake]

87. Excellent post, cali!

K&R

Bake

[doyourealize1]

88. Her healthcare policy alone makes her a Dem

Hardly any Republicans would EVER support the healthcare proposal that she wants to put in place. In terms of social programs, she is absolutely a Democrat.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[not_too_L8]

90. I hope your right

Being from CT and seeing what Joe Lieberman did, I wonder.

[amelia]

91. Good post. Rec it!

Thanks from a Clinton supporter

[onehandle]

97. Yep. nt

[HooptieWagon]

98. Yes she is a Dem, just like Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller...

and of course she's not going to announce a run as an independant as long as she's holding out hope that the SDs will overturn the pledged delegates we voted for. But that doesn't rule out an independant run once she's exhausted all options as a Dem.

[mtnsnake]

99. Be careful, cali

Once you start defending Hillary from the outright lies and innuendo on DU (not that it's the first time you've defended her), you can kind of get caught up in it, which leads to more defending of her, which leads to liking and appreciating her for what she is, wich is nothing like what most of the losers here in La La Land claim she is.

[jgraz]

100. I'd like to think that

I keep thinking we've seen the worst of her behavior and she keeps proving me wrong.

[onenote]

101. Thank you Cali.

Today is one of those days when its good to see fellow Obama supporters who see the big picture and don't act like spoiled three year olds.

[Blue_In_AK]

102. Nice post, Cali. n/t

[Blarch]

103. I agree.

But... She campaigns like a republican.