Already noticed something odd in HRCs tax returns...

[yourguide]

2006 returns are signed and dated by filers and preparers as required by law...

2000-2005 are not although I am quite confident the preparer would have hard copies on file of the signed returns.

2004 does not even have the preparer information listed where the signatures are required.

These numbers could have easily been monkeyed with...

[MichiganVote]

1. So the IRS is going to send them to jail? When is the trial for fraud?

[PBS Poll-435]

65. Can't tell if you serious or not, so either way....

+1 for coffee on the keyboard

[MichiganVote]

66. Series! Series!

[SwampG8r]

80. don't be obtuse

the IRS cannot release THEIR copies and if they confirm OR deny any of what HAS been released they step in a doodie pile.
so we are again expected to take her word for it
without even an accountant to ask

par for the clinton course

[blm]

83. IRS doesn't control what the Clintons choose to release during a campaign.

That's not their duty.

[Buzz Clik]

84. The suggestion is that the copies that were released were not the signed copies.

Not being the signed copies, they aren't the official copies.

That is the entirety of what was said.

[UALRBSofL]

2. yourguide so your saying they cheated on there taxes?

How exactly did they cheat on there taxes?

[yourguide]

5. I am not saying they cheated but I am suspect of 2000-2005 being...

the actual returns that were submitted. 2004 having zero preparer data listed is interesting as well as that is typically a field tat is filled in at the time the actual release is prepared.

[blm]

9. Heh - Clintons didn't want their donations to Bush/Cheney2004 to show up.

They were already caught backstabbing by April2004:
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

And publicly supporting and defending Bush in summer of 2004:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

And Carville was sabotaging Ohio Dem voters on election night 2004:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


So - wouldn't be a stretch to expect they sent Bush money, too. heheh

[KittyWampus]

13. heh, BLM! So glad you showed up today. Hope baby BLM is fine.

[MonkeyFunk]

16. just making shit up

donations to a political campaign would be public no matter what, and they're not tax deductible, so they wouldn't appear on a tax return.

man, you guys like to lie.

[joshcryer]

19. I've noticed the same thing. Sad, too, many of these posters are really respectable...

...at least out of the primary season anyway.

[blm]

30. Get real - I included the heheh to show it was a joke. It just isn't that far a reach considering

the undermining of the campaign Clintons actually did do.


Like the backstabbing:
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

Was defending and supporting Bush throughout the summer2004 book tour REALLY NECESSARY?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

Carville - traitor to Dem party sabotaged Ohio Dem voters:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

Clintons - always there when BushInc REALLY needs them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[UALRBSofL]

33. Dick Morris said there is 15 million that came from Iran or Dubai

And he said it was somewhat illegal.

[yourguide]

38. per politico...

18 mil is unaccounted for in the summary.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/The_Clintons_taxes.html#comments

[Vinca]

3. No-o-o-o. Ya think? But she's such an honest woman.

:sarcasm:

[NDambi]

4. It's going to be a fun weekend for many reporters....they will be combing thru them

[BlueIdaho]

6. Not cheated on their taxes

but massaged these number so the preparers names are omitted since these are not the numbers they swore to. BUT this is getting way ahead of the story. Lets try to assume these returns are the real deal and give them the benefit of the doubt - ok?

[yourguide]

8. why wouldnt we be provided copies of the actual signed returns

when they are available unless they "reprepared" them.

[TheDebbieDee]

14. Because, before the returns were signed, the preparer

made a copy of the returns for the Clintons to keep for their records.

I would make a copy of my returns BEFORE I signed them and sent them to the IRS. So, would most people.

Also, do you think someone at the IRS hasn't been tasked yet to check see if what the Clintons released what was actually filed?

[yourguide]

17. I dont think the IRS can legally release that information...

even if the numbers were altered. all that matters is the signed copy that went to the irs.

and these came from her accountants office, not out of a file cabinet in the house.

[TheDebbieDee]

49. They may not be able to release that info to us directly.......

but I believe Hillary's enemies would make sure we'd find out if the info on these returns didn't sync!

[yourguide]

48. do you think HRC copies her own taxes then throws them in her file cabinet?

it's why you have accountants..they have a copy, they send the IRS a copy, and you have a copy...you dont have to sign your own copy.

do you think HRC took the copy thats in her little filing cabinet and distributed to the press? No, her accountants got those ready for release.

[PBS Poll-435]

21. Who in the world would have signed copies on file?

Except the IRS, of course!

[yourguide]

50. and your ACCOUNTANT. Mine does...

and it's why SIGNED copies were released from 2006.

[PBS Poll-435]

57. Lol...my accountant surely does not have signed copies of my return.

I sign my copy to send to the IRS just like everyone else does. He doesn't ask for it back after he gives it to me, unless I am returning the form that he is required to keep on file. The 8879

[Orsino]

12. Benefit of doubt?

These are an important--and overdue, IMO--part of her job application. Go over 'em with a fine-toothed comb, I say, as we should for every candidate.

I wish she had given us the benefit of the doubt, and not waited for the eleventh hour to let us in on her secrets.

[ecstatic]

60. Sorry, I can't do "benefit of doubt" with them

No credibility = No benefit of doubt

They lied about Bosnia, shaking MLK's hand, and a slew of other things... unnecessary things...

[quantass]

7. I agree..that is what i noticed too -- I smell Monkey!

[pkz]

10. I noticed something odd too

The font looks like it was manually done on a typewriter.

I have not, and do not know of any accountant/tax preparer that has done that for over 10 yrs.
We all use software and print from our computers.

and dang, prepared in November?

[yourguide]

15. I noticed that as well, the font.

However the font on mine, that my accountant prepared looks like typewriter font as well.

[TheDebbieDee]

11. Relax. I'm sure that the the signed copies that were forwarded

to the IRS match the unsigned copies that the Clintons kept for their records.

But, by all means, please waste time and effort pining away for those signed copies.

[PBS Poll-435]

18. If you file electronically,

You do not sign the tax return. You and the preparer sign the 8879.

If they paper filed, they you still don't sign the "Client Copy."

[PBS Poll-435]

20. The only copies that are signed are the copies that get sent

to the IRS.

A preparer is not required to have signed copies on file.

[yourguide]

26. Not required but all accountants I have had to my taxes that deal in 100K + salaries

keep an additional signed copy on file.


So your experience at H & R Block is like comparing a 30K return to a 30 mil return.

[PBS Poll-435]

29. I will reserve what I really want to say to you. Instead, we will just do this...

In your first post on this ridiculous matter you said 2006 returns are signed and dated by filers and preparers as required by law...

Where in the USC, IRC, or anywhere does it say that you are required to keep a signed (by preparer, and client) and dated copy of your return on file?

Nice comment on H&R Block. That is sooo funny!

[yourguide]

37. They are not required...but for the preparers own protection...

good accountants do, especially when the figures get that high.

And buddy, I suggest you not use H&R Block, they stink.

[PBS Poll-435]

41. Yeah...I don't use H&R, and wouldn't need to. Not the point.

Regardless of what you feel are industry "best-practices,"

It is obvious that they have used multiple preparers, and not everyone is going to do everything the same exact way.

And to be honest with you, the figures really aren't *that* high.

[yourguide]

43. My point is, I make a lot less than HRC...

and I am not telling you what I think are "best practices" I am telling you what are industry practices when you are dealing with certain levels of income and certain levels of clients. If I have had 6 diff accountants over the past 10 years and all of them are keeping them when I make low 6 figures, and they werent when I was making under 6 figs then what, do you think I am making it up?

[PBS Poll-435]

46. You certainly would have the incentive to...

[yourguide]

58. What incentive do I have?

I pointed out the documents werent signed...um hello?

[PBS Poll-435]

62. Gee

I can't imagine why you would want to make people believe that the Clintons were lying about whether or not those were actually their tax returns...


:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[northzax]

22. I don't have a signed copy of my 2004 return

prepared by the good people at H&R Block. that section is blank (I have it in .pdf format)

[PBS Poll-435]

44. A tax return is *almost* intellectual property.

Typically, you get one signed copy, or a copy of the signed 8879 if you e-file, and one "client copy."

[yourguide]

52. yes, but you are forgetting the copy that the accountant has THAT IS SIGNED

[PBS Poll-435]

59. You keep saying this like it is scripture.

No accountant I know keeps signed copies of anything on file except: Engagement Letters, Powers of Attorney, Forms 8879. Copies of checks received for payment, etc. No signed tax returns kept in cabinets. There is no reason to. It would create extra liability, not alleviate it.

[roguevalley]

71. mine does and has for twenty-five years. people with this kind of

income i am sure are as careful and capable as me and my accountant with my real world income. no sig would be odd to me.

[PBS Poll-435]

75. So...Let me get this straight.

Your accountant does not stamp "client copy" on your "client copy." He instead gives you a copy, for your file, that is identical, in every way, to the one your sent in to Ogden? He doesn't bind the return for you in a nice folder? Yah...

He instead signs it as if it were the original? Really? No, No, Really?

P.S. Congrats on your "real world" income!!!

[PBS Poll-435]

77. Nope....It sure isn't

You obviously don't understand the role of an "accountant."

And Enrolled Agent or a CPA prepares a return based on the information provided to him. It is completed with your input. If you elect to electronically file your return, you will sign the authorization form for the accountant to submit it to the IRS via an intermediary that checks for diagnostic errors. You may request a copy of the form that you signed and submitted. You will NEVER recieve a signed duplicate copy of a tax return that isn't "voided" in some way. Either a stamp over the signature areas, or a stamp in the "For IRS Use Only" area.

[Bigleaf]

23. According to Ben Smith at Politico, $18 million unaccounted for..

UPDATE: The interesting part, of course, is the roughly $18 million that the summary doesn't account for.


http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/The_Clintons_taxes.html

[yourguide]

24. And you wonder why I pointed out these werent signed documents...

[PBS Poll-435]

31. Again, if you E-File....

You wouldn't get a signed return. You *might* get and retain a signed 8879.

Like, Duh!

[yourguide]

36. there are certain additional schedules

that are not eligible for e-filing, when that happens most preparers opt to mail the entire return in.

[PBS Poll-435]

39. So you can tell the truth, and not just gooey innuendo!

You are correct about that.

But you would most likely not have a keep a signed copy on file if you were to paper-file.

[yourguide]

40. What I am telling you is I have made 6 figs for over 10 years...

had 6 diff accountants...ALL of them have two signed copies from me, one for the feds and one for their records. The accountant I use now, who has clients who make millions, also keep signed copies for their own protection.

No, there is no law, but it's a pretty standard business practice when you have clients making that amount of $$$.

[PBS Poll-435]

42. Congrats on Your Success!

However, that does not necessarily make it an industry "best-practice."

In fact, if you really want to know, it is discouraged to give multiple signed copies to a client because of the additional risk to the preparer if a client accidentally filed the 2nd signed copy. Big penalties to the preparer.

[yourguide]

45. correct...one copy goes to the IRS, the other copy is held in the

ACCOUNTANT'S OWN FILE.

and I am telling you what the accountants do.

[PBS Poll-435]

47. If that is what they, your accountants do, it is what they do.

I am not fighting with you on that point.

Screaming that HRC doesn't have a copy of a signed tax return is ridiculous.

[yourguide]

51. That is what all 6 of my accountants have done over the past 6 years.

And screaming that they are not signed...well, it's not what was submitted to the IRS, and not the official copy that I am quite confident the accountant has.

[PBS Poll-435]

Dupe <nt> Sorry

[PBS Poll-435]

54. If you say so.

Why 6 accountants in 6 years? That seems a little strange. Especially if they are doing such a bang-up job!

[ecstatic]

56. Right, because the Clintons (worth over 100M) e-filed on TurboTax

Riiight...

[PBS Poll-435]

61. WTF???

You take your documents to a CPA. He will copy them. He will advise to you to electronically file, if eligible. He will prepare the return, give you a copy of the return to keep (unsigned by anyone.) He will then have you sign Form 8879 - IRS e-file Signature Authorization. This allows the preparer to file your return on your behalf.

TurboTax has nothing the hell to do with anything that we are talking about.

[ecstatic]

63. The point is, the mega-millionaire Clintons did not e-file their own taxes

Regardless of what a CPA said or didn't say. Someone trustworthy did it for them. Call it a hunch.

[PBS Poll-435]

64. OBVIOUSLY

And CPAs prepare your return, and if you opt to and are eligible, file it electronically. And I assure you, they don't use TurboTax.



:argh:

[roguevalley]

72. I doubt they e-filed. I doubt that they always filed on time. they have

a complex situation. signatures would be reasonable. their absence is odd.

[PBS Poll-435]

78. Yeah....the returns have signatures alright.

The ones at the IRS. Your client copy should have a nice big stamp over the signature section.

Have you ever seen a memorandum from a legal proceeding. No one ever signs a copy! It is not done, and it is not necessary.

Do you leave blank, signed checks laying all around?

And finally...because a 1040 has many more schedules, statements, or dollar signs, that means that an accountant or Enrolled Agent is going to break "best practices," so that you feel better? Probably not...

[Evergreen Emerald]

25. see--you don't need her tax returns, just make crap up!

ohmygod. I see why she would not want them disclosed. You will stop at nothing to distort, attack.

[Metric System]

32. Ugh, exactly. You have the media, Rethugs, and Obama supporters dumpster-diving looking for

dirt because they are absolutely convinced that the Clintons are evil and dishonest. Don't forget, this is the same media that does not hold the Bush family or Cheney in the same low regard. They're practically saints, apparently.

[Evergreen Emerald]

34. I know. Can you imagine the spin if Clinton had only given pittance to charity, like Obama did?

Clinton gave 10% to charity! That is amazing and awesome and shows something about her character.

Conversely, more talk from Obama with little action...what .04% to charity? And...that is not news, why?

[roguevalley]

73. a pittance like obama? She has 109m$ from all kinds of crap and

foreign tar pits and he has a mill he made from his book. Subtract his debts from his assets and he has barely 300K in equity. There's a bit of difference from the two. but don't let me bog you down with facts.

[PBS Poll-435]

79. Where is it all going?

[yourguide]

53. yawn...I am stating a fact, they are not the official signed copies

and someone has already found 18 million that the summary doesnt account for...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/The_Clintons_taxes.html#comments

[blm]

67. they can't stand when someone posts facts...they prefer fantasy fights.

.

[Metric System]

27. God, the Rethugs would have loved to have had your sevices back in the 90s.

[yourguide]

28. And the rethugs are grateful to have HRCs services now...n/t

[blm]

35. The Bushes had the services of the Clintons in the 90s in exchange for the WH and the

heat they'd get from Republican base.


Well - someone who APPEARED to be from the left had to cover up for BushInc throughout the 90s.
http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html



The Bushes got the best of that deal, as usual. The Dem party got screwed, the country got screwed, and Clintons ended up with a large payoff and the promise that Hillary could be next after Bushboy.

[ecstatic]

55. Good point. And the only way we'd know is if the IRS tells us

that a different version was actually submitted, in which case, the whistle blower would be fired for snooping. They are really and truly a sneaky bunch.

[crankychatter]

68. redacted summary ommitting specifics of '07 from Clinton HQ

you're surprised?

[WHAT]

69. What happened to 2007?

[cbayer]

70. You forgot your hat.

[Taxmyth]

74. Already noticed something about the Obama slime machine

They're really reaching for the stars with this one.

What a bunch of maroons, they do make me get a lot of exercise for my neck from shaking my head back and forth.

[WCGreen]

76. Copies of returns for personal use are not required to be signed...

I prepare taxes for a living and you are just nit picking...

Do you really think the Clinton's would release false tax returns for all, including the IRS, to see...

I have a feeling that you tend to find something wrong in anything the Clinton's do...

And before you go off on me, I support Obama...

[DerekJ]

81. WCGreen. Can you tell form those tax returns, wether or not keeping the money they donated to

charity would have put them in a different income bracket?!!

[MonkeyFunk]

82. I know little about tax preparation

but even I know that no, there's no tax bracket that kicks in at 20,000,000.