Another Clinton Claim Disputed

[Hope And Change]

Another Clinton Claim Disputed


Friday, April 4th, 2008

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/us/politics/05woman.html?ref=politics">NY Times casts doubt on tale of Ohio woman losing her baby and dying for lack of medical insurance.

Hospital denies Clinton’s story– often repeated on the stump– that woman was turned away because she could not afford $100 fee. http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/34835-hillary-clinton-tells-false-health-care-horror-story">Watch video here.

Story comes shortly after Clinton retracts claim about landing in Bosnia under sniper fire as first lady.

http://thepage.time.com/2008/04/04/12665/">Link

[TexasObserver]

1. She lies because it's more expedient than bothering with the truth.

The Bag Lady lies again.

[roguevalley]

33. someone, a sloppy asshole, gives her stories and she repeats

them without checking them out herself. Either she is a pathological idiot or she has the worst staff in the world. I don't want either scenario near the red phone.

[Cha]

89. mark penn=

sloppy asshole. Oh, I forgot we Obama supports are suppose to be respectful to sloppy assholes.

[Cha]

92. I just got on ..I have no idea what this

is about yet, but, after I told a customer at work today that the PA Primary was the same day the Dalai Lama was coming to Colgate College..he said, "I want this thing to be wrapped up, I'm so tired of her!" I said, "Thank you!"

But, doesn't she learn from the 2000 race? Gore was supposedly busted on saying something about some a prescription story on the stump and there was all sorts of outrage that it wasn't right.

FICTION: Al Gore recently claimed that his mother-in-law pays more than $100.00 for the arthritis medicine Lodine; and he claims that his dog takes the same medicine for $37.00, claiming "This is wrong!"

FACT: Gore's aides were quick to apologize for Gore's lie, saying the information was from a Democratic study. Washington newspapers also reported that Al Gore wasn't even sure his mother-in-law was taking any medication and wasn't even sure she had arthritis. And, he doesn't know anything about his dog's "arthritis."

The 'FACT' countercharge doesn't really stand up under scrutiny:

Gore aides tried Tuesday to end the debate over whether the Democratic nominee fabricated the price of an arthritis medication taken by his mother in-law, and the pet version used by his dog.

Gore spokesman Chris Lehane said the candidate's mother in-law, Margaret Aitchison, pays $2.13 per pill for the prescription drug Lodine. He said the family pays about 92 cents per pill for Gore's 14-year-old black Labrador Shiloh.

On Monday, Gore aides admitted Gore had used information from a House Democratic study, and not from his family medical bills, when he compared the costs of the medicine for his mother in-law and dog in a Florida campaign appearance last month."


http://tafkac.org/ulz/gore2.html

Good to see you, Texas Observer!

[MADem]

2. The FULL story is in the link

The woman, Trina Bachtel, did die last August, two weeks after her baby boy was stillborn at O’Bleness Memorial Hospital in Athens, Ohio. But hospital administrators said Friday that Ms. Bachtel was under the care of an obstetrics practice affiliated with the hospital, that she was never refused treatment and that she was, in fact, insured.

“We implore the Clinton campaign to immediately desist from repeating this story,” said Rick Castrop, chief executive officer of the O’Bleness Health System.

Linda M. Weiss, a spokeswoman for the not-for-profit hospital, said the Clinton campaign had never contacted the hospital to check the accuracy of the story, which Mrs. Clinton had first heard from a Meigs County, Ohio, sheriff’s deputy in late February.

A Clinton spokesman, Mo Elleithee, said candidates would frequently retell stories relayed to them, vetting them when possible. “In this case, we did try but were not able to fully vet it,” Mr. Elleithee said. “If the hospital claims it did not happen that way, we respect that.”

The sheriff’s deputy, Bryan Holman, had played host to Mrs. Clinton in his home before the Ohio primary. Deputy Holman said in a telephone interview that a conversation about health care led him to relate the story of Ms. Bachtel. He never mentioned the name of the hospital that supposedly turned her away because he did not know it, he said.

[Lerkfish]

8. using something in a stump speech that was NOT fully vetted? why?

its not like she's paying consultants millions of dollars or anything.

[MADem]

17. Well, if you want to play the "Pants on Fire" game, we certainly CAN do that

Obama had greater role on liberal survey

During his first run for elected office, Barack Obama played a greater role than his aides now acknowledge in crafting liberal stands on gun control, the death penalty and abortion — positions that appear at odds with the more moderate image he has projected during his presidential campaign.

The evidence comes from an amended version of an Illinois voter group’s detailed questionnaire, filed under his name during his 1996 bid for a state Senate seat.

Late last year, in response to a Politico story about Obama’s answers to the original questionnaire, his aides said he “never saw or approved” the questionnaire.

They asserted the responses were filled out by a campaign aide who “unintentionally mischaracterize his position.”

But a Politico examination determined that Obama was actually interviewed about the issues on the questionnaire by the liberal Chicago nonprofit group that issued it. And it found that Obama — the day after sitting for the interview — filed an amended version of the questionnaire, which appears to contain Obama’s own handwritten notes added to one answer.
....It could also provide ammunition for a line of attack quietly peddled for some time by Republicans. They allege Obama has a penchant for blaming his staff for gaffes ranging from missing a union event in New Hampshire to circulating opposition research highlighting the Clintons’ ties to India and Indian-Americans to underestimating the amount of cash bundled for his campaigns by his former fundraiser, indicted businessman Antoin “Tony” Rezko.



http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html


I'd say that's a bit more of a WHOPPER than repeating a story told to you by a frigging law enforcement officer. That's misstating one's POSITIONS on the ISSUES.

But hey, whatever. The Anointed One can do no wrong.

[Lerkfish]

27. hey, your "Goddess of Peace" cult

is getting tiresome.

[MADem]

31. Aww, ain't that a shame for you! nt

[roguevalley]

34. its a shame for us all. we don't need another four years of a liar

showing their face to the world representing us.

[MADem]

35. We certainly don't--anyone who lies about where he stands on the ISSUES

and then tries to blame his staff for it cannot be trusted.

[PoliticalAmazon]

38. 4 years of international humiliation by BushJr is enough....

...We don't need his clone, Hillary Clinton.

[SwampG8r]

43. the goddess of peace

is GOP
get it?
its like a code word they use to each other so they know who the repub operatives are
like the masons
probably got decoder rings and secret handshakes too
anyone using GOP ( Goddess Of Peace)should be suspect

[mtnsnake]

58. "anyone using GOP ( Goddess Of Peace)should be suspect"

Who the fuck are you? Are you some mutant descendant of Joe McCarthy or something?

Face facts, pal, the Goddess of Peace is who she is because she is the ONLY candidate who has the guts and know-how to get us out of Bush's war. Fuck McCain and all of his rightwing troll operatives. The Goddess of Peace will be mopping up the floor with him and all his sappy minions in November and will be putting all of this bullshit hatred that you people spew to rest.

[JVS]

109. You're just tossing out accusations because you use that term

[SwampG8r]

112. could be your right maybe she can get us out

we all know she sure as hell got us in!!!!!

[Cha]

95. Yeah, I knew I'd seen that

acronym somewhere before..I've got them all on Ignore so I really haven't seen any goddess of peace posts about hilary..but, I do know it's total bullshit and more than a little rovian like "clear sky inititives".

However, hilary is certainly gop and I don't mean grand ol party.

[merh]

3. from the article

Linda M. Weiss, a spokeswoman for the not-for-profit hospital, said the Clinton campaign had never contacted the hospital to check the accuracy of the story, which Mrs. Clinton had first heard from a Meigs County, Ohio, sheriff’s deputy in late February.

A Clinton spokesman, Mo Elleithee, said candidates would frequently retell stories relayed to them, vetting them when possible. “In this case, we did try but were not able to fully vet it,” Mr. Elleithee said. “If the hospital claims it did not happen that way, we respect that.”

This is not anti-Hillary folks doing this to her campaign and her trustworthiness, this is of her own doing. Again, bad judgment, failure to fully vet, exaggerations that are more harmful than they are truthful. They (she and Bill and the campaign) continue to do the most damage to themselves.

[SKKY]

9. She must have misspoke again...

...or was tired, or was fuzzy on the details, or whatever. She lied, again. Pure and simple. She almost seems compulsive at it.

[PoliticalAmazon]

39. Yeah, she was sleep-deprived and under sniper fire, that's why she lied. n/t

[Cha]

97. She can go on Leno and joke about

those pesky Ohio hospital details..calling jay leno..hilary wants another booking to chuckle about her tragic lies.

"The woman, Trina Bachtel, did die last August, two weeks after her baby boy was stillborn at O’Bleness Memorial Hospital in Athens, Ohio. But hospital administrators said Friday that Ms. Bachtel was under the care of an obstetrics practice affiliated with the hospital, that she was never refused treatment and that she was, in fact, insured."

[LaurenG]

4. This is getting ridiculous

talk about an empty suit. Doesn't she have anything to speak from experience about?

WTH is up with all her tall tales?

[ikojo]

24. Since she doesn't know any REAL people who

struggle to survive in today's world, she has to create them.

Park Ridge rarely interacts with Cicero IL.

[enfield collector]

28. thanks, that makes complete sense to me. She is unable to

relate to real people because she doesn't know any having been surrounded by lackeys and yes men for so long.

[JBoy]

103. Bam! That's good.

[goclark]

30. She is an empty pants suit

:)

[Me.]

5. The Sad Thing Is That This Sort Of Thing Does Happen

And telling an unvetted story just gives ammo to those idiots who say health care in this country is just fine.

[BlooInBloo]

45. Yup - makes it even worse if you lie about it.

[iamjoy]

6. I Don't Fault Her This One

I mean, in some ways, this is not her lie. She was repeating something told to her without fact checking. That doesn't make her a liar - any more than anyone who blindly forwards an e-mail from a friend without verifying it first. I think that's wrong, but it's not the same as her deliberately lying or forgetting the circumstances of a trip to Bosnia.

[PoliticalAmazon]

41. With her lying history, how can you assume someone gave her the story?...

...Based on her flat-out lying about things she herself participated in, I can't give her the benefit of the doubt here.

It is far more likely that she and her campaign hacks made up the stories, counting on her KarenHughes-esque media brow-beating staff to keep the media from publishing the truth.

[OzarkDem]

68. Where's the lie? The case was real

the woman died, unnecessarily it seems. Something went wrong. Unless Clinton was her doctor or working in the emergency room, you're going to have a hard time blaming her for it.

[Yael]

101. Wheres the lie?

The woman wasn't making minimum wage -- she was a manager of a Pizza Hut.

The woman had medical insurance -- she wasn't uninsured and "living off tips".

Other than that, the rest of the story is true. She did have a stillborn child and she did die.

Devil be in the details and all that.

[JBoy]

105. Your attempts to cover this up are sad and fruitless

Like my cat who scratches outside the kitty litter, thinking it will somehow cover up the poops.

[BlooInBloo]

46. "in some ways, this is not her lie" - HAHAHAHAHA!! That's who *I* want as President!

[Yael]

102. Are yiou suggesting that it is a bad thing for a President to repeat everything

they are told as "facts" without vetting the information?

:P

[Cha]

98. Yeah, she's just stupid on this

one...The Bosnian Sniper Liar story was a lie 'cause she was fucking there.

[roseBudd]

7. AS someone who did not have health insurance until 40, I went to ERs & had unpaid bills

and was never turned away, nor was I ever asked to put up any money.

Now I did hear about an aquaintance that died of an OD being diverted from a private to a public hospital. But I do not know for a fact what actually transpired.

[LaurenG]

20. A not for profit hospital cannot turn you away

they would be sued into oblivion if there was anything left after the accrediting agencies fined them.

[roseBudd]

23. That is why I find that tale from girlfriend of person who ODed unreliable, Mercy was the ER

and the diversion was to General now called University.

Now I did dislocate my elbow on college property when uninsured, the private ambulance driver that transported me told me I did not want to go to Good Sam across the street like I asked but to University Hospital around the corner which just happens to be a part of the college I dislocated my elbow at.

And that private not fire dept. ambulance ride cost me $1500.

[goldcanyonaz]

10. Are we really on the same side here? I'm starting to wonder...

[Lucky 13]

13. Well...Hillary started behaving like a Rethug quite a while ago.

Don't know if we're on the same side anymore or not.

[LaurenG]

19. Please do some research on her

do it with an open mind. Look at independent sources because something is not right with her at all.

[dkf]

32. You should be the one most upset at her.

She is ruining her credibility on health care and that should be of utmost importance to you, I would think.

And we are not the one researching this stuff, its the NYT, the "paper of record" and all that jazz.

[PoliticalAmazon]

42. Depends what battle you're talking about...

...If you're talking about real change in the Oval Office, an end to the secrecy, lies, filthy political tactics, divisivenes, and international humiliation, if you're for Clinton, you're not on the side for real change. I'm on the side of real change. So, in this battle, we are not on the same side.

She has most of Bush Jr's problems (except for, please god, his chemical addiction problems), and we need to make this clear to voters so we don't end up with another 4 years of the same disasters we've suffered from Bush Jr.

[babylonsister]

11. Are you kidding me? After all the people she met, she's

reduced to making up even sadder stories to prove whatever point she's trying to make? Real life isn't good enough? :wow:

[City Lights]

12. Oh Hillary, you listening?

“We implore the Clinton campaign to immediately desist from repeating this story,” said Rick Castrop, chief executive officer of the O’Bleness Health System.

[Bonobo]

14. The thing is, if you are willing to lie about the SMALL STUFF to get what you want...

Yikes.

Believe me. My father was a compulsive liar. It's an ego thing. You think you're justified. It's weird.

It's also scary and very hard for people like that to ever change.

One compulsive liar like GB was enough folks. This is ASKING for trouble.

[MADem]

22. Yeah, lying about the small stuff is bad. Lying about your positions on the issues is, too

SCARY, indeed. Hard for liars to change, certainly. Ooooops.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=03FA375F-3048-5C12-00CC7D33B6E8E59E


During his first run for elected office, Barack Obama played a greater role than his aides now acknowledge in crafting liberal stands on gun control, the death penalty and abortion — positions that appear at odds with the more moderate image he has projected during his presidential campaign.

The evidence comes from an amended version of an Illinois voter group’s detailed questionnaire, filed under his name during his 1996 bid for a state Senate seat.

Late last year, in response to a Politico story about Obama’s answers to the original questionnaire, his aides said he “never saw or approved” the questionnaire.

They asserted the responses were filled out by a campaign aide who “unintentionally mischaracterize his position.”

But a Politico examination determined that Obama was actually interviewed about the issues on the questionnaire by the liberal Chicago nonprofit group that issued it. And it found that Obama — the day after sitting for the interview — filed an amended version of the questionnaire, which appears to contain Obama’s own handwritten notes added to one answer.

.......Dobry, Patt and current IVI-IPO state chairman David K. Igasaki, a Clinton supporter, agreed Obama likely didn’t write every word of his campaign’s 1996 answers. But they all dismissed as unbelievable his presidential campaign’s assertion that Obama never saw or signed off on the state Senate questionnaires.

[Levgreee]

25. I don't see any proof of a lie, they state an aide filled out the questionare in error

There is nothing in there showing a lie by Obama, except by insinuation. They say Obama SHOULDVE read and corrected it, and assert he most likely looked over it, but that's about it.

I guess a person and their staff can't make any errors in paperwork over the course of years?

The thing with Clinton is, she has been caught red-handed, and in MULTIPLE occasions. Even assuming Obama's aide did lie (Obama did not state this) about a questionare, that is not close to Hillary personally lying about sniper fire, or pushing forth a false story about someone being rejected for health care.

[MADem]

26. Yeah, compounded by more lies in the candidate's own handwriting!!

:rofl:

Whatever.

Thou shalt ignore facts in thy worship of the Anointed One. So it is written, so it shall be done!

:rofl:

[Levgreee]

99. The handwriting was clarifications that werent considered lies in that article,they weren't"liberal"

positions. reading comprehension is key. They took issue with the other questions that Obama didn't clarify with his own writing.

[MADem]

113. Yes, it certainly IS key. Go through that material again. NT

[PoliticalAmazon]

48. Hillary Lied About her Anti-War Work in Congress....

A big issue for many Americans is getting us out of Operation Quagmire in Iraq.

Not only did Hillary vote to get us into Iraq, but her efforts to get us out of Iraq are obviously largely window-dressing and never intended to really go anywhere. She claims he played important roles in major efforts to get us out, but that is not the truth.

She lies about everything. She lied about her efforts to get us out of Iraq.

How can you believe she is telling the truth now when she says, as president, she will get us out of Iraq?

(BEGIN QUOTE)

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-clintoniraq3apr03,1,6913917.story

From the Los Angeles Times

Clinton on the sidelines of efforts to end the Iraq war
She's been a vocal critic, but records show she has done little to advance legislation to force a withdrawal from Iraq.

By Noam N. Levey
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

April 3, 2008

WASHINGTON — Seeking to convince voters that she can end the Iraq war, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has touted her role in the congressional effort to force President Bush to bring the troops home.

"I've been working day in and day out in the Senate to provide leadership to end this war," Clinton recently told an audience at George Washington University, contrasting her experience with that of rival Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois.

Clinton has been a vocal war critic and introduced three bills last year to curtail the U.S. military role in Iraq. The New York senator has also aggressively questioned administration officials involved in the war.

But since Democrats took control of Congress, Clinton has done relatively little to advance legislation to force the Bush administration to withdraw from Iraq, according to congressional records and lawmakers and staff members who have worked on the issue.

Instead, Clinton largely remained on the sidelines of the congressional debate, her legislation ignored as the Senate focused on measures developed by lawmakers who were more central to the legislative drive to end the war:

* Clinton played a marginal role in Democratic efforts to confront the president's troop "surge" early last year and later in developing the party's legislative strategy of tying money for the war to a timeline for a withdrawal.

* None of her war-related proposals -- which often mirrored measures introduced by other senators -- ever came up for a vote.

* She did not work with moderate Democrats who built GOP support for bipartisan antiwar legislation to overcome Republican-led filibusters.

* And Clinton not only did not develop any measures to mandate a pullout deadline, she actively opposed them until early last year.

"She lent her voice to the Democratic Party's criticism of the administration, which was important," said Julian Zelizer, a Princeton University historian who has written extensively about the current Congress. "But she certainly was not at the head of the move to legislate the end of the war."

Obama was equally peripheral to the Iraq war debate, but he has not claimed a similar leadership role. He has argued instead that his opposition to the war in 2002, two years before he was elected to the Senate, makes him the superior candidate.

In contrast to both Democrats, Arizona Sen. John McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, was a leading voice in the debate, arguing for more troops in Iraq.

Clinton, who voted to authorize the war, has made her Senate experience -- along with her eight years as first lady -- a cornerstone of her argument that she is best prepared to be commander in chief "on Day One."

In Des Moines last summer, she announced a three-step plan to end the war, discussing her legislation "to begin bringing our troops home within 90 days" and to revoke the war authorization Congress gave President Bush.

"It is long past time that the president ended American combat involvement in Iraq's multi-sided, sectarian civil war. . . ." she said. "That is what I have been trying to do in the Senate."

In a March 17 speech in Washington to mark the fifth anniversary of the invasion, she explained that ending the war had been her "mission in the Senate."

And she pointed to another bill she introduced last year. "I've started laying the groundwork for a swift and responsible withdrawal beginning in early 2009 by demanding that the Pentagon start planning for it now," Clinton said.

Clinton has earned the support of some of the war's fiercest critics on Capitol Hill. Sixteen members of the House Out of Iraq Caucus recently signed an open letter praising Clinton as "the candidate with the stature, strength and experience needed to end this war as quickly and responsibly as possible." (More than 20 caucus members are backing Obama.)

"For years, Sen. Clinton has been committed to finding any and all possible ways to get the president to reverse his failed policies in Iraq and end the war," said senior Clinton advisor Philippe Reines, noting her three visits to Iraq, her work on the Armed Services Committee, her speeches in favor of a withdrawal and her legislative proposals.

Yet, while Clinton introduced Iraq-related bills -- as have scores of lawmakers -- other senators wrote the war-related legislation that was actually considered, handled delicate negotiations over compromise proposals and worked to round up votes.

These included Delaware's Joseph R. Biden Jr. and Michigan's Carl Levin, the chairmen of the Foreign Relations and Armed Services committees. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) early last year asked them to draft a resolution with Republicans opposing Bush's surge plan to send about 30,000 more troops to Iraq.

Biden and Levin were among a small group of Senate Democrats that Reid regularly convened in his second-floor Capitol office to strategize about Iraq legislation. The group included not only members of the Democratic leadership but other lawmakers interested in Iraq, such as Rhode Island's Jack Reed, an Army veteran, and Wisconsin's Russell D. Feingold, a staunch war opponent.

The group did not include Clinton.

Clinton did not work on the anti-surge resolution that Biden and Levin developed, according to Senate aides who asked not to be identified when discussing Senate negotiations. She did sign onto the legislation after it was introduced, as did 17 other senators.

She also did not collaborate with a second bipartisan group of senators led by Republican John W. Warner of Virginia, who drafted an alternative resolution.

On Feb. 16, 2007, as senators were debating the surge, Clinton filed her first Iraq-related bill of the new Congress, a proposal to halt the surge and to link continued authorization for the war to a troop withdrawal.

She rounded up no co-sponsors. And her bill was referred to the Foreign Relations Committee, becoming one of dozens of pieces of Iraq-related legislation that were never debated.

Obama's only legislation to end the war, which would have stopped the surge and mandated a phased withdrawal, was similarly shunted off to the committee after he introduced it on Jan. 30, 2007.

Most of the Capitol was at that time focused on the next question in the Iraq debate: Would Democrats try to restrict money for the war?

Once again, other lawmakers played the leading roles in that intraparty debate.

Feingold pushed for a withdrawal deadline enforced by a funding cutoff. Levin and Reed drew up an alternative that conditioned additional funding on a withdrawal timeline.

Clinton was simply one of 51 senators who ultimately voted for the Levin-Reed plan. She did not participate in the Senate debate in the week leading up to the March vote on the measure, according to the Congressional Record.

Two months later, in May, Clinton announced that she and Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D-W.Va.) would introduce legislation to end the authority for the war in Iraq, an idea that Biden and Levin had explored earlier in the year but then dropped.

Like her earlier legislation, Clinton's proposal never came up for a vote.

In July, Clinton trumpeted a bill she planned to sponsor that would require the Pentagon to give Congress a report on contingency plans for redeploying U.S. forces from Iraq.

But again, other senators had taken the lead in pushing that concept. Just a week before, Republicans Warner and Richard G. Lugar of Indiana had introduced a measure to do essentially the same thing.

Clinton did not work with the senior GOP lawmakers, however. Her proposal went nowhere.

Nor did she participate in efforts by centrist Democrats, such as Nebraska's Ben Nelson or Indiana's Evan Bayh, to write legislation with moderate Republicans. Aides to Maine's Susan Collins and Olympia J. Snowe, two of the most influential moderate Republicans, said they never heard from Clinton's office.

By then, Clinton, who was courting antiwar Democrats still angry about her vote to authorize the war, had embraced the strongest antiwar legislation pushed by Feingold. That proposal, which Clinton had voted against a year earlier, would have cut off funding for all but a limited number of military missions.

At a September hearing on Capitol Hill, Clinton told Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, and Army Gen. David H. Petraeus, the senior U.S. commander in Iraq, that their upbeat reports on the surge required "the willing suspension of disbelief."

And in December, she attracted eight co-sponsors, including Obama, for her bill calling on the president to seek congressional approval for any long-term security agreements with Iraq.

But when Democrats pushed anew for legislation mandating a withdrawal in December and then again in February, Clinton wasn't there. She missed the votes.

[e-mail]

[Cha]

104. This is obviously a much more tragic lie but

she doesn't get busted at the NYT for this one. Thanks so much for posting this info PoliticalAmazon!

[MADem]

114. Where do you get "lying" out of "She has been a vocal critic but has

done little to advance legislation?"

I see your definition of lying is at variance with that of normal people.

To you, lying is "not doing enough." To normal people, lying is "not telling the truth."

For future reference, it's four or five "fair use" paragraphs, not the full article, per DU rules.

And per your OWN citation, the other candidate is no prize on this score, either: Obama's only legislation to end the war, which would have stopped the surge and mandated a phased withdrawal, was similarly shunted off to the committee after he introduced it on Jan. 30, 2007.

[0007]

15. How will she deal with the Mark Penn story? Will Jay Leno give her a break?

Order up some popcorn, heavy on the butter. Light on the salt.

[Botany]

16. Sniper Fire, Northern Ireland, NAFTA, and S-CHIP

Kind of see a pattern here w/ Sen. Clinton.


<The woman, Trina Bachtel, did die last August, two weeks after her baby boy was stillborn at O’Bleness Memorial Hospital in Athens, Ohio. But hospital administrators said Friday that Ms. Bachtel was under the care of an obstetrics practice affiliated with the hospital, that she was never refused treatment and that she was, in fact, insured.

“We implore the Clinton campaign to immediately desist from repeating this story,” said Rick Castrop, chief executive officer of the O’Bleness Health System.

Linda M. Weiss, a spokeswoman for the not-for-profit hospital, said the Clinton campaign had never contacted the hospital to check the accuracy of the story, which Mrs. Clinton had first heard from a Meigs County, Ohio, sheriff’s deputy in late February.

A Clinton spokesman, Mo Elleithee, said candidates would frequently retell stories relayed to them, vetting them when possible. “In this case, we did try but were not able to fully vet it,” Mr. Elleithee said. “If the hospital claims it did not happen that way, we respect that.">

[boobooday]

18. There have to be many more examples of health-care horrors from the for-profit world

That would serve better than a rumor about a not-for-profit facility.

Perhaps where the villain is an insurance company?

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. Yes all she has to do is watch SICKO

There are several stories in that movie she can use.

[C_U_L8R]

21. What else would we expect from a liar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxrd_jZJxkg

[powergirl]

29. Why does she have to use un vetted stories?

There are so many examples of people getting screwed over by the health care system. A LOT OF REAL EXAMPLES. When she does this it makes the plight of uninsured Americans look like it's a lie. This does not help the people of America.

It's terribly cavalier for the Clinton campaign to say they "weren't able" to fully vet the story. What is wrong with these people??? The campaign is either sloppy or arrogant - I don't know which. But it is hurting us all.

[Cha]

106. It's a stupid excuse and if there's one thing that bothers

a lot of people about clinton besides her lying ..it's her stupid handling of her campaign.

[Joe the Revelator]

36. I blame so much of this on Penn

I see him sitting her, making this bullshit up, and getting Hillary to go along with the idea that voters will just eat it up. We're not as dumb as we were in 92.

[PoliticalAmazon]

49. Hillary chose and keeps Penn. Poor judgment would be disaster in the Oval Office n/t

[QC]

37. Because no ospital would falsely deny sending the poor out to die in the streets. n/t

[thewiseguy]

40. Have you ever heard of lawsuits?

The hospital could not possibly be distorting the truth in this case.

[QC]

44. Your faith in the goodness of corporate America is touching. Unfortunately,

Big Business, Inc. routinely lies about its activities, lawsuits be damned.

[thewiseguy]

47. Your faith in truth coming out of Hillary's mouth is even more touching!

Did you read the part where the hospital claimed that Hillary's people never checked with the hospital to verify the story? lol

[QC]

59. I'm not a Hillary supporter, Sparky.

It's amazing--and amusing--how the simpler sort around here have such a hard time grasping that there aren't just two types of people in the world: those who walk in the light, having accepted Obama as their personal lord and savior and those children of Satan who worship at the feet of his minion, Hillary.

Hospitals send people out into the streets to die every day, and it is going to take more than a simple denial from a hospital to settle this matter for any thinking person. As for someone eager to prop up a candidate, well, that's a whole other matter.

[OzarkDem]

55. Hospital is probably facing one right now for this case

and the story attacking Clinton is nothing more than damage control.

[thewiseguy]

56. Do you have a link or are you making stuff up just like Hillary?

[OzarkDem]

66. Sure

read any story about this woman's tragic case and, if you know anything about medicine and health care, you'll realize its a tragic situation that was 100% unavoidable. With all the medical interventions we have available to us today, its very unlikely a woman would die suddenly after giving birth to a stillborn baby. With proper medical attention, this shouldn't have happened.

Someone screwed up in providing this woman and her child the care they needed. If, as the hospital says, the woman had insurance and access to treatment, there's little reason to believe she would have caused her own death.

Something went wrong in this situation, and it needs to be investigated.

[LaurenG]

50. I think you should remind yourself of a few things

Doctors are trained to treat illness, that is what they do. Between the Hippocratic oath and their desire to heal along with working in a non profit hospital they wouldn't turn her away. Besides the fact that someone would have said something about this, hospital personnel are NOT politicians.

[QC]

61. You really need to come talk to a couple of friends of mine.

The man needs a kidney and pancreas transplant. He will die without it and doesn't have a whole lot of time left. No hospital will get started on him until he has $50k cash in hand.

So his wife is desperately trying to raise the money by holding bake sales and rummage sales and church suppers.

What a fool she is! Doesn't she know that a hospital would never, ever deny treatment to a sick person?

[LaurenG]

71. If someone goes to the emergency room and is sick they have to see him

in a non profit. I do agree with you about your friend though I think it's a horrible situation. My sister is 53 years old, disabled and has no Health Insurance and no job. She moved in with me in August.

I am very sorry about your friend.

[OzarkDem]

76. That doesn't mean they will

Non-profit hospitals are only required to spend a certain amount of their profits on providing charity care, nothing more.

They routinely turn uninsured patients away or refuse to let them make appointments, and many of them will tell you the same.

[LaurenG]

78. The ones I have worked for down here haven't , that I'm aware of.

Though you may be right, they may have done that.

[OzarkDem]

72. Patients do get turned away

mistakes do happen. I've even seen cancer patients refused treatment at not for profit hospitals until they could come up with cash. I've seen non-profit hospitals refuse to let women with positive mammograms make appointments to get diagnostic testing because they didn't have health insurance.

Here in Ohio, it happens every week, if not every day. And when hospitals are caught and held to account, they either backtrack or hire a lawyer and start spinning the story.

[LaurenG]

75. I can't disagree with you about long term illness.

I am talking about a visit to the ER. I am deeply saddened about those with no hope and no help.

[OzarkDem]

80. Long term illness?

Trying to make an appointment for diagnostic testing when breast cancer is indicated in a mammogram is an emergency. Failure to give treatment for a cancer that is growing and could be stopped, particularly when there is no other cancer care provider for a hundred miles around is an emergency.

And yes, ER's at non-profit hospitals routinely tell emergency crews to divert ambulances to publicly funded or other hospitals.

[OzarkDem]

53. This story raises a red flag - against the hospital

Something went terribly wrong in this woman's case and trying to divert attention to it by using it against Clinton is wrong.

If Obama is smart, he'll stay away from supporting the story of a hosptial that wants to blame the woman in this tragic situation.

[LaurenG]

57. Obama will stay away from it , he's too busy campaining

she is busy shooting herself in the foot, he won't need to do a thing.

[OzarkDem]

73. He has his campaign staff working on it, however

trying to exploit a tragic situation and another failure in our health care system for political gain. Please, I wasn't born yesterday.

[LaurenG]

77. Well I certainly hope not. He would do well to focus on what he's going

to do for us rather than what he's going to do to Senator Clinton.

[OzarkDem]

81. That's the way he operates - Chicago style politics

[LaurenG]

84. We shall see. nt

[UALRBSofL]

51. What I find kind of unusual about this article

We don't know all the details but if she had insurance or medicaid, which is a form of insurance, her co-pay is $100. Anyway, I would tread lightly if I were the hospital administrators because from the way the article reads and the way the sheriff told the story, they are conflicting stories and if I were a medical malpractice attorney I sure would jump into this case. This is kind of a fishy story and since the media has gotten ahold of it I wouldn't doubt there are attorneys lined up at the family's door to look into this case. I mean, OB/GYN cases are the attorneys dream cases when it comes to medical malpractice.

[NJmaverick]

52. The story seemed a bit unbelievable when I first heard it

I am not surprised it's been found to be false

[OzarkDem]

82. The story is true, the woman died unnecessarily

Her infant was still born and its death may also have been avoided.

Whether she had insurance is up for debate. The hospital is going to need to provide some proof and is no doubt going to be investigated for what may have been two preventable deaths.

All that is true.

[NJmaverick]

87. The ONLY truth was the birth was stil born and the woman did

die of complications from the stillborn birth. It was not true that she had been turned away or that she was uninsured, which was the main point of her story.

The rest is another fanciful sniper tale.

[McCamy Taylor]

54. This is a hospital attacking Hillary on health issues and you guys are attacking Hillary

for political gain. I don't suppose that any of you has a problem with this or sees yourself and the hospital (a member of the Medical Industrial Complex) as being the same in any way, do you?

[LaurenG]

60. No this is a story about a made up event or an event that was meant to pull on the

heartstrings of the public. Why not just tell a real story, there are bound to be many. This makes no sense at all.

Nice try though. :)

[OzarkDem]

83. The woman and her child's deaths were not made up

and whether the hospital failed to provide her good care based on her insurance status is up for debate.

[McCamy Taylor]

62. Medical records are secret. Hillary could not have gotten them. How did the hospital release them?

Did the family agree?

[dailykoff]

63. Oh what a tangled web we weave.

Time to go home Hillary.

[McCamy Taylor]

64. Did the patient's family agree to the hospital releasing her records?.

Hillary could never go to the hospital for information, because she is not next of kin. They would have told her to get lost. Only family can get records. If the hospital released this without consulting the family, they can get sued.

[Zachstar]

65. Everyone PLEASE get this story to the major networks and TV/Radio in PA!!

Time to expose another Clinton LIE!!

[jenmito]

67. It's being covered on CNN! For the last 5 min. already! Her campaign just said if

the story was false, they are sorry. They got this story relayed to them and they "can't vet every story." :eyes:

[Zachstar]

70. If it was false? LoL!! Kinda ruins the apology eh?

So the campaign will feel the effects of this.


Will she Joke about this on the next talk show appearance?

[jenmito]

74. Hey-Hillary's "heartfelt" stories don't HAVE to be true if she says she THINKS they're true!

She just made another honest mistake! :shrug:

[OzarkDem]

85. The needless deaths of two people are just political fodder for you?

Typical Obama supporter.

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. God damn her!! This hurts our cause for universal health care

She can lie about dodging sniper fire. She can lie about carrying a bookbag. That doesn't affect us. But telling lies about health care just hurts our chance for getting universal care. Damn her!!

[OzarkDem]

86. Bullshit

and since Obama doesn't believe in promoting universal health care, how is it a problem for you?

[Erin Elizabeth]

90. How is it bullshit? She could have told the many many

TRUE horror stories available from Americans. Why pass one on that she didn't even know to be true or not???

John Edwards once told the story of a wheelchair bound vet with a heart condition married to a woman with the same heart condition and how they couldn't afford the meds for both of them, so they just split them and prayed it would work. The guy and his wife were IN THE AUDIENCE and he had the story checked out in advance.

THAT'S how to do it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

94. All she had to do was watch SICKO

or contact Michael Moore. I am sure he would have shared a story or two or twenty with her. It's not like she has to stretch the truth to prove there is a problem.

[Erin Elizabeth]

96. Yep, and Moore checked out all his stories before using them.

[mtnsnake]

93. Oh enough with your silly outburst of faux outrage. Wow, talk about an act!!

She can lie about dodging sniper fire. She can lie about carrying a bookbag. That doesn't affect us. But telling lies about health care just hurts our chance for getting universal care. Damn her!!

That is just about the goofiest thing I have ever heard. Congratulations! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Erin Elizabeth]

88. What it tells me is that she's a

complete and utter fucking idiot for repeating a story in campaign speeches that she didn't even know was true. First order of business should be to vet every fucking thing you say in a speech so people can't catch you in making up more untrue shit or passing on untrue shit other people told you.

God.

[Neshanic]

91. That Obama graphic is Orwellian and creepy. I know it's to attract the Che crowd,

with it's similarity it's just a image that adorns Scottsdale club goers.

[Yael]

100. What fake accent is she pretending to have in that video?

I can't quite put my finger on it. Is she going for rural Appalachian?

[JVS]

110. Judging by the Lycoming shirt, she's in Williamsport PA

I don't know what she's trying to sound like

[quantass]

107. BAD HILARY!

[quantass]

108. .

[quantass]

111. k&r