Who needs Florida

[leftofcool]

http://elections.gmu.edu/Voter_Turnout_2008_Primaries.htm

Looks like Florida had the 7th highest turnout in the Primary. But heck, we can win the election without them, right?

[goldcanyonaz]

1. We're gonna win Nebraska, Utah and Alabama!

:woohoo:

[QC]

Don't forget North Dakota! n/t

[goldcanyonaz]

Montana too!

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Haw!

[QC]

9. And Mississippi! There's six electoral votes right there! Yeeeeee-HAW! n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

14. You forgot about Poland....err Wyoming!

[quakerboy]

64. And that approach, in a nutshell

is why Hillary is behind in the vote, and the delegate count. Thanks for coming, try again next time.

[PBS Poll-435]

68. Yeah...Yep, you got it.

We let the Republican-voting states pick the Democratic nominee. Wahoo! Fantastic...wait, what?

Well back to the drawing board...

[GoldieAZ49]

116. Idaho too, remember the hugh crowds

sure they will turn blue for BO and Wright!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[SwampG8r]

62. as a floridian

need i remind you that fla hasnt gone dem in a long damn time?
and as a local i can assure you that if hillary IS on the Nov ballot we wont win it again
this time
so your lil story here is kinda hollow

also i would rather have my delegation not seated than have it stolen against the express DNC rules to profit DLC scum

[Florida22ndDistrict]

93. re: as a floridian

I agree 2006 was too far back to remember. We only picked up 5 new seats last election in the US House of Representatives (Florida districts 9, 11, 13, 16, & 22). We are only the state with the largest group of freshmen congressmen in the 110th congress. Yeah no way we ever swing Democratic. :sarcasm:

[PBS Poll-435]

98. 1996 was sooo long ago.....

Lets not even try.....

[Florida22ndDistrict]

103. You can toss 2000 in there as well. We voted for Gore, we just got robbed by the supreme court.

[PBS Poll-435]

106. Yeah...

But Gore did worse than Clinton and Kerry Did worse than Gore.

Maybe we can shoot for 45% this year. That would be a "moral victory."

[Why Syzygy]

111. Thank you! The HRC boosters who continue to wag

this tale are obviously agents or pawns of the DLC. I haven't seen anyone but you point that out.

[rodeodance]

8. ha ha -

[McCamy Taylor]

79. In the Olympics?

[rodeodance]

2. BO keeps dissing the voters in FL like he would not need them if he were the nominee

[ProSense]

5. Kerry would have won the election with OH and w/o FL. n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

16. And he won neither. Your point?

[ProSense]

18. Can the election be won without FL? What's your point? n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

25. Not with any kind of mandate.

Are ya lookin' for a squeeker?

[woolldog]

72. lol, you need to win florida to have a mandate? absurd

[PBS Poll-435]

75. No...winning the popular vote by more than 1 or 2 points will deliver Florida

[RaleighNCDUer]

86. If it's within 1 or 2 points, the republicans will steal it anyway.

Have you learned nothing in the past two elections? You think the electoral fraud is going to end just cause Jr is going away?

The only way we can win florida is by having a cheat-proof margin, and the demographics don't support that - we CAN'T get a 10% or better win. Therefore, FL is already lost.

[PBS Poll-435]

96. Then just give up!

Who cares...Lets not win this time, lets not even try. Why bother...it is just gonna get stolen anyway...

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:













:sarcasm:

[gristy]

Really!

What did he say?

[rodeodance]

11. you obviously need to educate yourself --or update yourself on the news --say 6 months worth.

[gristy]

19. LOL!

Too funny! Seriously, though. Can you give me a quote and a link where Obama is disrespectful specifically of the voters in Florida?

[PBS Poll-435]

33. And I quote

"Fuck those old denture-wearin' bitches and their bridge games and their beach front condos with temperate climate."

J/K Although...I will see if I can get an *exact* quote.

[gristy]

59. Hello!

Knock, knock! Anybody home?? :D

[ProSense]

3. Hillary still loses the primary with Florida. So what's the spin? n/t

[leftofcool]

13. Has nothing to do with the primary

this is about the GE and possible turnout. Can Obama really win the GE without Florida since they had the 7th highest turnout in the Primary? He seems to think he can

[rodeodance]

21. Thanks--I figured that poster did not get what the OP was saying.

[ProSense]

24. Yes. He. Can.

But there is a strong possibility he will win with it!

[PBS Poll-435]

34. Only when you wish upon a *star*

However clueless about this you are...

[Zhade]

41. No, that's what clinton supporters do when they realize the liar is falling further behind.

NT!

[PBS Poll-435]

48. You know it!

:eyes::eyes:

Honestly...did the Clintons steal your cat or something?

[ProSense]

46. You can't make it so with insults. It can be done. Face facts.

Face them, embrace them. Facts are your friend.

[PBS Poll-435]

51. Obama can not win Florida unless he is 56-44 nationwide.

He has no major constituency in the state. 'Cept drunken Spring Breakers!

:beer:
:beer:
:beer:
:beer:
:beer:
:beer:

[ProSense]

55. The question was can he win the GE without winning FL? IOW, does he need FL to win the GE?

You need to stop drinking.

[PBS Poll-435]

56. You need to stop presenting conjecture as "facts"

And no...I think it is pretty obvious that he can win without FL, OH, PA, MA, NJ. You know...the places Democrats win.

He just needs MT, NV, WY, ID, CO, ND, SD, KS, NE, OK, MO, NM, MS, & SC

[RaleighNCDUer]

84. ???

How would him being 56-44 nationwide help his numbers in Florida?

I would love to hear the logic of this statement.

[Awsi Dooger]

92. Unbelievable

Do you actually believe Florida would vote 12 points more red than the nation as a whole?

There are logical relationships here, state margins to national. Obama supporters have been remarkably clueless in that regard, so far.

Someone else very accurately summed up Florida in this thread, 1 or 2 points more red than the nation itself. That's at base level. Obama has potential to lose more ground due to demographic vulnerability.

[SwampG8r]

108. sure he does

we are called "democrats"

[gristy]

57. Why do you think Obama thinks he can win the GE without Florida

Is this the old "Obama believes the Florida vote should not count, per the agreed-upon DNC rules, and this is disrespectful of the Florida voters, and therefore this means he thinks he can win the GE without Florida"?

Do I have that right?

[RaleighNCDUer]

61. What does that mean "7th highest turnout in the primary"?

Are you saying the 7th highest proportional turnout to the state's population? Or the literal, 7th hightest turnout - which would be a bit low for the 5th biggest state.

And, as you just said, this has nothing to do with the primary - so how is quoting primary turnout relevant?

There is NO WAY that florida is going to go blue - 10% of florida dems are crossover republicans who are just there to fuck with us, and after the last few elections they have the cheating down to a science, no matter who actually has the votes. Florida is a basket case which has three primary voting blocks - redneck racists, military, and Cubans, and NONE of them favor Democrats.

Fuck em.

[PBS Poll-435]

67. You heard it here first....

Fuck Cubans and the Military! They don't help us win!

Fuck em...

[RaleighNCDUer]

83. My mistake -

7th largest turnout in the 4TH largest state - a significantly depressed turnout. And republicans outnumbered Dems by 200,000, in an election year when Dems are turning out in far greater numbers than republicans in nearly every other contest - look at the numbers in the OP.

I say again, we never had a hope of taking Florida, whoever our candidate was (at least after Edwards was eliminated).

And who was the last Dem to get more than 35% of the Cubano vote in FL? Who was the last Dem to get more than 40% of the military vote? Those are NOT our blocks.

So fuck em.

[PBS Poll-435]

99. Fuck 'Em in Fifity States! The Obama Plan for Victory!!

[RaleighNCDUer]

114. No, just fuck florida.

Let that corrupt piece of shit state drop into the fucking gulf.

[rodeodance]

4. REC

[gristy]

6. Yes, high turnout is good.

we can win the election without them

What is your point? Who is "them?"

[TahitiNut]

7. It's been pointed out MANY times, BUT ...

... the Florida primary ALSO had a tax referendum on the ballot - a referencum of major interest to homeowners all over the state.

There's "turnout" and there's "turnout." :shrug:

By contrast, there was absolutely nothing else on the ballot in Michigan. :eyes:

[clydefrand]

10. Who needs Florida? Floridians need to have their votes

counted and their delegates seated as do the other 48 states who will have theirs recognized. Both Michigan and Florida need to settle this situation if they want to have Democrats come out to vote in November. I would certainly be inclined not to vote if the majority in my state voted for my candidate and didn't get counted.

I might add that the Floridan citizens had nothing to do with the change in time for the primary for the Democrats. The republicans changed that knowing full well what the DNC rules were. Why did the primary occur at the same time? I don't know. Do any of you?

[rodeodance]

15. The DNC and Dean have been very shortsighted and not future looking to NOV!!

[Zhade]

42. Untrue, the Dems supported it.

NT!

[RaleighNCDUer]

85. Do some research.

DNC rules provided for seating the delegates if the FL dems made a good faith effort for follow the DNC rules which they had already agreed to. Not only did they NOT put up a good faith effort, with all but 1 of them voting to change the date, but it was a Democrat that submitted the bill to change the date in the first place, in specific defiance of the rules THEY HAD ALREADY AGREED TO. It was NOT the republican legislature. It WAS the DLC and blue dog dems picking a fight with Dean and the DNC.

[NJSecularist]

12. Who needs Florida? Ask Hillary back in 2007. Why didn't she fight for their votes then? n/t

[rzemanfl]

17. When are people going to get it through their thick heads that

the turnout in Florida was driven by the property tax issue?

[PBS Poll-435]

26. When you realize they were also

Giving away free samples of "Snuggle" Fabric Softener!

[rzemanfl]

36. All I got was a shitty "I voted" sticker. Liquid or the sheets? n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

37. Like you had to ask....Liquid

They don't do "sheets" in the South anymore!

[AX10]

20. Utah is going to push the Democrats over the top to victory.

:sarcasm: Only in some corny Hollywood script would that happen, but Hollywood is fairly bad with their writing, so....

[rodeodance]

22. opps--yup--UT will bag it for Dems. ---yup

[ProSense]

23. Think McCain is going to win NY, NJ, CA and MA? Think McCain is going to win?

Really?

[PBS Poll-435]

27. With McGovern V2.0 on the ballot?

Nixon could win.

[ProSense]

32. So who does that make Hillary, losing to "McGovern V2.0"? n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

35. The person who *could have* delivered

the White House to Democrats in November.

If only she would have thought of "Obama Girl" first!

[QC]

38. And if only some talk show host had glommed onto her!

Don't get me wrong--nobody can do a transvestite-dwarves-in-love-with-their-own-sisters show better than Oprah, but I think that letting her pick our nominee wasn't such a great idea.

[PBS Poll-435]

39. No...It really wasn't

I wish Jenny Jones would have had a hand in it.

[QC]

44. And where is Sally Jesse Raphael when you need her?

She could have really turned things around.

[PBS Poll-435]

49. Like you had to ask.....

At an Obama Mega-Rally!!!

O8)O8)O8)O8)

[QC]

52. I heard she was there with Gordon and Montel.

Can you say hot three-way?

[PBS Poll-435]

53. I can say it, but I don't want to think about it...

Unless Geraldo was there.....


WOOF!




:beer::puke::beer::puke::beer::puke::nuke:

[QC]

63. It's not truly a 3-way without Geraldo!

He once brought me to a shattering orgasm using nothing more than his mustache.

[PBS Poll-435]

65. Well as long as I don't have to see him down there...

[ProSense]

69. "Could have"? "If only she would have thought of "Obama Girl" first!"

Always a day late and a dollar short is why she is losing! "Could have" is a fantasy!

[PBS Poll-435]

74. So is November, for the Obama folks, without the Clinton folks...

[ProSense]

76. November is for Obama, he's the one running for president. n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

82. And good luck if he doesn't have the support of the Clinton folks....(again)

[SwampG8r]

109. it makes her

hubert humphrey the lowest form of old boy network dem

[Why Syzygy]

113. McGovern was running against an incumbent.

McSame is close but doesn't have the office. It's not really a valid metaphor.

[Zhade]

47. Better than yours, no doubt.

NT!

[PBS Poll-435]

54. You have been so constructive and rational!

Thanks!

[IntravenousDemilo]

28. America needs Florida. Otherwise, what would it pee out of? n/m

[PBS Poll-435]

29. That is a really good point.

American is going to get a bladder infection, come November.

[PBS Poll-435]

43. That is just the tip of the iceburg

[wileedog]

30. They're just going to fuck up their election anyway

Whats the big deal?

[UALRBSofL]

31. Can I just say something about florida? The FRP has got there stuff together already

There are about 10 McCain offices set up already, one in my town. I get email from the FDP. FRP and McCain, Hillary. I have received 2 emails from the FDP and it just basically said were working on seating our delegates, blah, blah, blah, but we are democrats and we want to win florida, signed Karyn Thurman. Now, I have gotten a lot of email from the FRP, the last two asking me if I wanted to:

Help us reach out to other voters: We'll be conducting all sorts of outreach phone calls, door-to-door work, rallies, even covering polling locations on Election day in November over the next eight months. If you're willing to make phone calls or talk to folks in your neighborhood about John McCain, please let us know.
Leadership in your community: We are recruiting people to serve as Precinct Captains. Your job would be to recruit additional volunteers in your precinct, conduct direct outreach to voters in your precinct, and ensure that your polling location is covered by sign waivers and other volunteers during voting hours in November.
If you're interested in joining any of these efforts, or you know someone who is, PLEASE RSVP TODAY! We'll get you additional information and materials.


Now why haven't I gotten these kind of emails from the FDP? They can't get there pooh together. It really makes me mad. I suppose the FRP is trying to get cross-over democrats and Independents.
:evilfrown:

[Zhade]

40. FL Dems really won't vote?

I think that's far-fetched. They really hate repubs down there these days.

[rzemanfl]

45. Well, when our votes disappear, like they have the past two

elections, the cover story is all ready for them to roll out. Isn't it?

[Zhade]

50. Maybe so. The selfish who support a liar like clinton will be playing right into their hands.

Shame.

[PBS Poll-435]

58. They are both liars....err politicians

Durrrrr

[RaleighNCDUer]

88. Funny how it's always Hillary supporters who claim that ALL

politicians are liars.

[PBS Poll-435]

100. Not a claim...

Just the facts. You seem to think otherwise though....strange

[RaleighNCDUer]

87. Yep. That's the whole point.

Why else would the DLC pick a fight with the DNC? To give cover for republican theft, again.

[johnnydrama]

60. electoral maps

Every electoral map over the last 2 months that showed Obama beating McCain showed Obama losing Florida.

Sorry to let facts get in tye way.

[PBS Poll-435]

71. I NEVER let facts get in tye way...

BTW, what is tye way?

[RaleighNCDUer]

66. BULLSHIT

7th highest turnout - in the 4th largest state, and Republican turnout was 200,000 HIGHER than Dem turnout - that sounds like a depressed turnout to me.

Florida is going to go Republican. There is no way EITHER Hillary or Obama is going to take it. Not with the base constituencies of rednecks who won't vote for a black OR a woman, military who are going to go with the war hero, and Cubanos who have been solidly republican for 40 years.

Fuck florida

and

FUCK THE DLC

[PBS Poll-435]

73. and FUCK 1996!!! Where strangly, the Democrats WON Florida....

[RaleighNCDUer]

89. When the Dem candidate was a conservative white male.

Neither Hillary or Obama is going to take florida.

[PBS Poll-435]

97. Not with that attitude....

[Lorien]

81. Florida did, in fact, choose Gore in 2000

This is a purple state, and those of us living here are American citizens, just as you are. I've lived here 19 years and have fought for Democratic candidates for EACH of those 19 years. At this point I don't give a fuck which corporate appeaser wins the Dem nomination. I'll work for them anyway because they'll be the lesser of two evils. But if you really want to do away with entire segments of the American population does that make you any better than say, Ann Coulter? After all, she would like to take away the votes of each and every American who doesn't always agree with her.

[RaleighNCDUer]

91. Gore, also a southern white male.

The demographics just don't support either Hillary or Obama winning florida. Even a conservative white male democrat can only make it close enough to be stolen from him.

You are not who I'm speaking of - saying you will vote for whoever. It's the people who are pulling the DLC 'vote our way or we will take our votes and go home' that are souning off here who I give a big FUCK YOU to. I'm sorry that your vote will not count. Mine hasn't counted in the past two elections, either, in my state. But I voted anyway.

The fact is, Florida is lost to the dems no matter who wins the primary. Neither Hillary nor Obama is going to get a 10% margin over McCain there, and anything less will be close enough for them to steal. With the fight that the DLC picked with the DNC, that gives the republicans all the cover they need to pull a 5 or 6 percent flip and keep it believable.

[Florida22ndDistrict]

107. re: Gore, also a southern white male.

Florida is not grouped with the south when it comes to socioeconomic divides. Basically everything Orlando south with a bump up towards Ocala/Gainesville and then a bubble around Jacksonville can't be lumped in with the south. The more rural farm areas that have sparse populations fit the south to some extent. Picking Gore because he was a souther white male is a bullshit stereotype you are labeling us with.

[MattNC]

70. we can easily win without Florida

and the electoral math for doing so is not difficult.

[Life Long Dem]

77. That's right, a nomination is chosen early in most primaries.

It is the GE where everyone votes all at once so everyone has a say. Primaries are not made this way, and most times the 2025 is achieved a lot earlier than this. This doesn't mean all the states ahead of that time are disenfranchised, it just means the nominated candidate has won the primary.

So, I really don't understand what your saying about FL.

[kwenu]

78. Yes. We will have to win without them. But its still a good vacation spot.

[McCamy Taylor]

80. Good one!

:rofl:

[New Dawn]

90. We do NOT need Florida.

John Kerry would have won in 2004 with Iowa and Ohio. Florida is definitely not necessary. It already receives far too much attention in presidential elections anyway, compared to many other states.

[rodeodance]

94. what stupidity

[Florida22ndDistrict]

95. re: We do NOT need Florida.

Yeah damn those presidential campaigns for paying attention to large populations of people that hold large amounts of electoral votes. What democracy needs is for the very small states that are sparsely populated (the size of some of our cities) and ethnically homogeneous to pick everyone for the rest of us. The masses should never get any attention in a democracy. What are these lunatics thinking. :sarcasm:

[GarbagemanLB]

102. no, what democracy needs is for PLEDGED delegates, who were chosen by the people in their states, to

be sniped by Hillary's campaign. So much for democracy and letting the 'will of the people' decide the nominee... :sarcasm:

[Florida22ndDistrict]

105. re: no, what democracy needs...

I'm not a Clinton supporter. I have acknowledged that many times. Stop stereotyping already, it gets old. As a side note, the primary/caucus process is not a direct democracy, so your message holds no weight no matter how much I wish it did. The fact is that all of the people with the exception of those from Florida and Michigan will be represented at the convention through their delegation so the will of those people can't be ignored. Just for kicks, Miami-Dade County + Palm beach County has more population then your entire state and that doesn't even include the other 2 million people that live in my metro area. I think we deserve to have our voice heard just as much as you. We just have a lot more voices to consider, so we get more attention normally.

[SwampG8r]

112. yeah and

sometimes we have to double check to make sure we understand those voices
that creole is a mfer and cuban spanish is the sloppiest when you compare it to columbian or even guatamalan spanish
then we got central american maya dialects too like conjubal and quiche
its tricky down here but we seem to like it

[SwampG8r]

110. owie

you said "sniped"
lol

[slick8790]

101. Fuck Florida.

It's an increasingly red state with incompetent state Dem leadership and wracked with voting irregularities. We're not gonna win FL in the GE no matter who we nominate. McCain has the support of a popular governor and it's speculated he might choose him as a VP.

We need to stop basing our entire electoral prospects on one fucked up state.

[SoCalDem]

104. Of course.. and without OH and PA too...Map

[GoldieAZ49]

115. the Repbulicans

at this rate looks like they are going to get it

probably Michigan as well