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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:04 PM
Original message
Why is DU like an RNC oppo room?
Because a bunch of people sit around computers parsing every word that Hillary says trying to tease out a lie, untruth or distortion so that they can avoid talking about the issues. This is called gotcha politics. It got W. elected in 2000 and some people at DU are hoping it will get their man elected this time.

This BBC documentary from 2000 has an accompanying transcript of how the RNC operates. I changed the names and few words to make it more up to date. The words in bold are those I changed. Notice how much I did not have to change. This is strictly for laughs, to lighten the mood around here, because we are all getting too serious.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/archive/981759.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/audio_video/programmes/panorama/transcripts/transcript_22_10_00.txt
Artist's Dramatization:

BIN-A-DEM-4-EVR (du nick-name)
If there's something really good that we should attack then we'll attack it.

MARSHALL
In the DU war room, attack headquarters for the Obama campaign they're waiting for the
candidates to appear on screen.

BIN-A-DEM-4-EVR
Everybody make sure you've got a pen and paper. You see anything that you think is a potential
exaggeration, hit or whatever, just email it around.

MARSHALL
BIN-A-DEM-4-EVR and his colleagues do oppo - opposition research. It means they look for any slip by the enemy
- Hillary Clinton .

BIN-A-DEM-4-EVR
Research is a fundamental point. We think of ourselves as the creators of the ammunition in a war.
Research digs up the ammunition.

MARSHALL
You make the bullets.

BIN-A-DEM-4-EVR
That's right, we make the bullets.

ODAMA-MAMA
I'm ready to just respond to anything that Hillary says.

MARSHALL
And they feed their anti- Hillary research to the American press and TV.

OBAMA-MAMA
It's an amazing thing when you have top line producers and reporters calling you and saying "We trust you,
we need your stuff."

PRESENTER
Good evening from the the University....

MARSHALL
Right at the start Hillary presents BIN-A-DEM-4-EVR with his first chance to attack.

PRESENTER
Senator Clinton what is your favorite food?

HILLARY CLINTON
That would have to be ice cream.

MARSHALL
BIN-A-DEM-4-EVR spots the opening. It's small but to them it's a gift, a Hillary untruth.

BIN-A-DEM-4-EVR
Hey, she wrote about what she liked to eat when she was pregnant, right?

Obama-Mama
Yes she did.

BIN-A-DEM-4-EVR
Alright, okay. Hey, Monica-cigar, how're we looking on that? Where's the stuff on that?

MARSHALL
BIN-A-DEM-4-EVR is eager to get a story to the Associated Press Newswire - A.P. - the link with all the media.

BIN-A-DEM-4-EVR
Here it is. "My favorite thing to eat was peanut butter and banana sandwiches. I couldn't get enough of them. That's exactly what Hillary said, it directly
contradicts what she just said in the debate. She just lied. A.P.s already on there.

OBAMA-MAMA
OPPOSITION RESEARCHER, DU
The woman can't tell the truth. She uses legalisms and she passes words just like her lord and master, Bill Clinton, to get
out of trouble.

HILLARY CLINTON
And when the conflict came up in Bosnia I saw a genocide in the heart of Europe. I think...

MARSHALL
Having tasted blood the attack dogs want more.

HILLARY CLINTON
Look, that's where World War One started, in the Balkans.


BIN-A-DEM-4-EVR
Hey yeah, let's check this out! Maybe that is another Hillary whopper!

MARSHALL
This time the trail runs cold.

COLLEAUGE
Okay, so that is not a lie. Okay. Alright.

MARSHALL
What, you thought it was a lie there?

BIN-A-DEM-4-EVR
Well you never know with this gal-she shaves the truth.


But Oppo is not all fun and games. Here are some of the harsh realities about using oppo research driven campaigns.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200406/green

"Presidential campaigns are not won or lost on paid TV," says Josh Lahey, a Democratic strategist and researcher. "They're all about free media, so there's even more of a priority." The payoff for a successfully placed item is the effect of the story itself in influencing media coverage. This accounts for the intricate methods of story-laundering by which campaigns avoid the taint of open negativity while gaining legitimacy from a seemingly impartial media outlet.

snip

Opposition research will be the key, and hidden, factor in the campaign. But it can burn campaigns that are too eager to deploy it. Gray Davis was such a hardened exponent, even against opponents in his own party, that when he desperately needed allies during the campaign to recall him, hardly any remained. Wesley Clark's campaign succeeded in its effort to hurt Dean, but its smear tactics hurt Clark as well, who found little favor with the press corps. And when the Republican case against Bill Clinton during his impeachment proved too heavy-handed for the public, it was not Clinton who paid the price—it was those who most recklessly pursued him.


Some oppo is just plain stupid like the Obama camps "Hillary Clinton (D-Punjab)"

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/19/news/obama.php

The Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama said his campaign made a "dumb mistake" when it circulated a memo criticizing Hillary Rodham Clinton's financial ties to India.

Obama on Monday disavowed the memo, which was headlined, "Hillary Clinton (D-Punjab)," a play on the standard reference to a candidate's party and constituency. The memo referred to investments in India by former President Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton; her fund-raising among Indian-Americans; and the former president's $300,000 in speech fees from Cisco, a company that has moved U.S. jobs to India.

snip

Obama's campaign sent the memo to some reporters Thursday, demanding that it not be attributed to the campaign. The Clinton campaign got a copy and made it public.

"It is not reflective of the longstanding relationship I have had with the Indian-American community," Obama said.


I had forgotten about this episode when I decided that the "Race Memo" had come from outside the Obama Camp. Now I understand why some people believe that this bit of oppo was also internally generated and was also meant to for journalists as a "but you didn't hear it from us" message--a status that is usually only accorded to Republican oppo.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clin_n_81205.html

Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign has prepared a detailed memo listing various instances in which it perceived Sen. Hillary Clinton's campaign to have deliberately played the race card in the Democratic primary.

The memo, which was obtained by the Huffington Post and has been made public elsewhere, is believed to have been given to an activist and contains mostly excerpts from different media reports. It lists the contact info and name of Obama's South Carolina press secretary, Amaya Smith, and is broken down into five incidents in which either Clinton, her husband Bill, or campaign surrogates made comments that could be interpreted as racially insensitive.

The document provides an indication that, in private, the Obama campaign is seeking to capitalize on the view - and push the narrative - that the Clintons are using race-related issues for political leverage. In public, the Obama campaign has denied that they are trying to propagate such a perception, noting that the document never was sent to the press.


Everyone uses negative oppo, right? Not necessarily. And it is not just a matter of ethics. Some opponents are not good choices for oppo based strategies. Oppo of the type that focuses on a candidate's character is used to define a candidate who is a clean slate in the public eye.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200406/green

The legendary—and legendarily ruthless—Republican political consultant Lee Atwater hewed to the adage that a campaign should frame its opponent before the opponent can frame himself.


All newbies start out with a low negativity rating because no one knows anything bad about the person. Once a candidacy is announced, it is a race against the clock. Will the candidate create his image or will the opposition create his image? The corporate media rushed to define John Edwards as a phony, electing to assign the task to John Solomon of the Washington Post the very moment that the presidential race was starting over a year ago. That is because John Edwards would most likely be our nominee right now had the press not intervened and Obama would be his most likely VP choice and the Democrats would be on their way to an easy victory this fall. John Edwards was still largely neutral so he was easy to smear.

However, Hillary already has a well defined public persona. She started the election with the high name recognition expected of a first lady. She has always had high negatives--also to be expected since she represents all that conservative America hated about the 1960s and 1970s, what Bob Novak called "abortion, acid and amnesty" when referring to the George McGovern campaign, for which she worked. She has a fanatic group of supporters who believe--with good reason--that she will never back down in her fight against the right wing. For Hillary the 60s have never ended. They just got put on hold during the Reagan era.

These are hardly qualities that a fellow Democrat can emphasize in a primary to political advantage. Therefore, the Obama camp at DU has been reduced to copying the RNC's self proclaimed anti-Hillary strategy of calling her 1. a liar, 2, sleazy 3, polarizing, the three negatives that everyone already knows.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/03/26/hillary/

Ok, so what do those mean to Democrats? Polarizing? Not much. No one expects to win a lot of Republican votes. Sleazy? Does anyone admit that they vote for the best looking or the trendiest candidate. I know that a lot of people base their vote on frivolous criteria like this, but no one actually comes out and says it.

That leaves truthfulness. If the only thing that the Republican oppo in the 1990s managed to do was to get a bunch of people to believe that Hillary was a liar, then the Obama camp at DU will go along with the corporate media as it plays Hillary is a liar round two.

There is just one problem with this strategy. Which people believed/believe the Big Lies The Clintons are habitual liars that the corporate media spun in the 1990s? Sure the press seemed to buy it. And a few Dems expressed outrage over the sex. But did rank and file Democrats turn on the Clintons? I don't think so.

Some people shake their heads and ask why are Hillary's numbers going up and Obama's number going down (except for his negatives which are slowly rising). I predicted this. The day after Easter, when Hillary hit rock bottom, the general wisdom here and on TV was that the Bosnia effect had sunk Hillary's campaign and given Obama the win. This was silly. These are the same Democrats who stayed true to Bill Clinton during Monica-gate. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" was a much bigger deal than sniper fire in a war zone. The drop in Hillary's polls were the Judas effect on Easter. I predicted that the use of the right wing tactic---so familiar to Democrats from 2000 and from the 1990s---would rebound on Obama and tar his campaign even though he was not the only one propelling the story. McCain and the RNC were getting their licks in too.

Now, look at their numbers in the NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/04/us/politics/04campaign.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin

Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama are now effectively tied among Democratic voters, with 46 percent saying they want the party to nominate Mr. Obama, compared with 43 percent for Mrs. Clinton. In late February, 54 percent of Democrats said they wanted Mr. Obama to win the nomination, compared with 38 percent for Mrs. Clinton.


Look at that. Obama not only survived Wright. He got teflon from Wright and convinced Democrats who were afraid that he was not serious about fighting the right wing conspiracy that he had some serious left wing ideology. And now his camp has pissed away his lead with Republican style oppo politics that remind Democratic voters of the one thing that they hate almost as much as Geoege W. Bush.

Ken Starr.

And today there is a new oppo attack in all the Obama leaning blogs. Within two weeks, Hillary should be ahead of Obama among Democrats.

In the end, after all the "Hillary is a liar" stories, Hillary will be exactly where she was when this all started. Her political opponents will hate her. Her political friends will love her even more. Her image will not have changed at all. The one who is being transformed is Obama. He is slowly being stripped of the image he worked so hard to fashion, that of the candidate who is above the mud slinging. And she is not doing it to him. He is doing it to himself.With the help of a lot of people who claim to support him. He is the new one, the candidate with the fresh image that is still being formed.

He is the one that the RNC and the corporate media are really attacking when they play this game of "Let's call Hillary a liar". Because if they attacked Obama directly, that would only make him a victim.

It still is not too late for the Democratic candidates to make up. A unity ticket will combine the two halves of the party---the half that believes that we must always be ready to confront the ever present right wing conspiracy and the half that believes in being optimistic and conciliatory in order to win friends. There will be a time and a place for both strategies.

Advance noogies for the first person who suggests that Hillary is running around dropping falsehood bombs in order to "entrap" Obama supporters into using Republican style oppo attacks.You can lead a horse to water but you can not make him act like Lee Atwater.





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TomBall Democrat Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. BULLSHIT!
Yes, bullshit.

This is the game Hillary Clinton developed. She made the rules. Follow her work through the past two decades. She is the author of her own demise.

She expects to do this to others, and then cries fouls when the game is played on her.

If those here are not tough enough to have their candidate parsed, then may I suggest a knitting circle.

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Examples would be helpful. Please cite them with links.
Edited on Sat Apr-05-08 09:11 PM by McCamy Taylor
But keep in mind, Hillary is not running an "character". She is running as a "public servant" the way that Teddy Roosevelt defined it. That means she promises results but not to make people feel good,
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Not running on 'character', eh? OK, you said it.
This seems to be the new thread today - yes, she's all the bad things she's accused of, but we can trust her to do the job for us. What is this - once she's bought, she stays bought?
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. What an intelligent response. eom
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
49. looks like you need the knitting circle.



"If those here are not tough enough to have their candidate parsed, then may I suggest a knitting circle."
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. You have a pain between your ears??
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. You give this place far too much credit by comparing it to an oppo room.
It is more like Free Republic, circa 1998. The very same smears and accusations, the very same type of twisted shut-ins sitting around ranting over the very same ugly little obsessions with uppity women and Bill's pecker.
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I agree that there are some really stupid comments
made on DU about both our candidates.

I just hope that the regular voters are smarter than a lot of DUers because I want a Dem in the White House much more than I want a particular Dem there.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. The yellow dog is looking better all the time. I hear he fetch and everything
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
31. Yes, all those accusations backed up with paper trails and videos proving her lies.
You fail at spinning for your lying candidate.

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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. My candidate? Who might that be? n/t
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #34
57. My apologies, you spin like a clintbot, so I assumed you were one.
NT!

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nonoxy9 Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
58. First we're a bunch of "latte sipping kids", and now we're all "twisted shut-ins"?
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 01:14 AM by nonoxy9
Make up your minds folks. Either you want to see the flaws in hillary or you choose not to and claim she's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
If you think it's tough on Hillary now, wait til you see the REAL right wingers go after her when Rush Limbaugh gets her nominated!
Again, have a nice day in fantasy-land!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #58
63. Where have you been -since at least 2000? -"have a nice day in fantasy-land!"
Make up your minds folks. Either you want to see the flaws in hillary or you choose not to and claim she's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
If you think it's tough on Hillary now, wait til you see the REAL right wingers go after her when Rush Limbaugh gets her nominated!
Again, have a nice day in fantasy-land!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. Here:
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. *crickets* (as expected) n/t
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I am here to warn Obama supporters that they are doing what Newt Gingrinch did in 1998

Back in 1998, while other people agonized over the upcoming Congressional elections, I laughed and told my on-line friends at Salon not to worry, this would be the election in which the GOPers took aim at their own foot. Sure enough, they lost seats and Newt had to resign.

This thread is a warning. Obama is the one who will end up paying. If he still gets nominated, his win will look so "dirty" and the Party will be so fractured that it will be 1972 all over again.

Hillary is not going to back out, not as long as the personal character attacks continue. Those are like waving a red flag at a bull. If Obama really wants her to concede he needs to play nice.

Unless he comes out and has a news conference and tells all his liberal supporters including KO "enough with the parsing every statement to call it a lie, let's focus on issues" he will end up looking like Richard Daley to John McCain's Mr. Clean.
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Hillary and her campaign were the first ones to try to destroy Obama with dirt
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Again, please give example with a link.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. ...and lies. And race-baiting. And fearmongering.
NT!

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. You're here to warn Obama supporters that Hillary's dirty tactics will make Obama's win look dirty?
Wow, I mean, wow!

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. As promised, a noogie for you.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. Well thanks for your concern...
But I believe that the candidate who claimed that “I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say,” she said. “He’s never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002.” is the one who started paying dirty.

And let's not forget the alienation of anyone who dares support Obama. Hillary supporters, like you, make it seem like it's some kind of crime to support Obama. You have alienated many people who mean a lot to the progressive movement. People who could have been a help should Hillary get the nod. You guys would rather get Randi Rhodes fired for a single comment than Hannity or Limbaugh who do it on a daily basis. Then you have the nerve to "warn" Obama supporters that he will look dirty? Please... try the mirror..
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. "Obama Camp Goes Too Far To Claim Clinton = McCain" from MOJO
In Barack Obama's latest email pitch for donations, his campaign manager, David Plouffe, writes:

"Senator Clinton and Senator McCain are reading from the same political playbook as they attack Barack on foreign policy.

"They have both criticized Barack's commitment to act against top al Qaeda terrorists if others can't or won't act.

"And they have both dismissed his call for renewed diplomacy as naïve while mistakenly standing behind George Bush's policy of non-engagement that just isn't working....

"Barack is facing a two-front battle against Senator Clinton and Senator McCain."

Plouffe is trying to hit Clinton (and McCain) from both the left and the right (or the dovish and hawkish sides) simultaneously. But he stepped over the line regarding the former.

On the first point, Plouffe is referring to the criticism Obama drew when he suggested he would, as president, strike unilaterally against al Qaeda in Pakistan if he possessed solid intelligence and if the Pakistani government did not act. With this claim, he was obviously trying to show that he could be damn tough--even cowboy tough--when it comes to the fight against Islamic terrorists. Critics blasted him for recklessness, but it turns out that the Bush administration has mounted these sorts of attacks to take out al Qaeda leaders.

On the second point--that Clinton has "mistakenly" stood behind Bush's "policy of non-engagement"--Plouffe is stretching the facts. Clinton did jump on Obama when Obama vowed at the CNN/YouTube debate that he would meet with the thug-leaders of Iran, North Korea, and Cuba in his first year as president. But as Clinton has repeatedly said, refusing to promise meetings with these leaders in the first year of a presidency is hardly equivalent to a policy of non-engagement. She has repeatedly slammed Bush's unilateralism and called for a vigorous revival of American diplomacy and multilateralism.

Plouffe wants to lump Clinton and McCain together to show that Obama is the candidate of change taking on two candidates of Washington conventionalism. Obama does have a case in this regard. (Both Clinton and McCain share responsibility for the Iraq war.) But this argument does not extend to Clinton endorsing Bush go-it-alone-ism. Given that the Obama campaign often complains (justifiably) about the Clinton camp's truth-twisting oppo research, Plouffe ought to be more careful.


As a side note, I don't think that KO mentioned that Obama was raising money off this Clinton remark. Every time someone in the Obama camp says something about Clinton (like calling her a monster) KO always tells us that Hillary is raising money off it so that makes it all ok. KO is currently Obama;s most destructive oppo agent in the news media because Democrats know that he is doing it for Obama and not McCain. Whenever KO opens his big fat mouth, I think that Hillary's popularity with Dems goes up at least a quarter point.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
43. You posted an article that shows both Clinton and McCain attacking Obama
not one showing Obama attacking Clinton and giving props to McCain.. but never mind that it's this I have a question about:

Whenever KO opens his big fat mouth, I think that Hillary's popularity with Dems goes up at least a quarter point.

If that's true then why are Hillary's supporters bitching about him? If he's only helping you by "opening his big fat mouth" then why are you trying to get him to close it? And why are you complaining about it? Makes no sense to me. Sorry all the liberals have "turned on you" must be tough...
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. I am not a Hillary supporter. I am a Democrat. He is splitting the party apart.
Edited on Sat Apr-05-08 11:32 PM by McCamy Taylor
He is driving a wedge between Hillary and Obama supporters. Why does he give coverage to the same bullshit non stories that the rest of the MSM covers like Bosnia snipers? He would do Dems a greater service if he had Obama on 5 nights a week talking about his plans to fix the economy--that is what people care about. When KO does sniper fire, my mom, who is a Hillary supporter, blames Obama. She won't even watch Countdown anymore and she is a lifelong left wing liberal who has supported the most liberal candidate in every election--McCarthy, McGovern. She is the base. She knows this is all splitter bs. She has seen this before and so have I.

I want to have a nominee to support who will win. Obama and Hillary are the same. I like them both. They would be great on the same ticket.

I do not want to see 1968 or 1972 again.

The press wants to see Chicago 1968 very badly. They want broken heads and race riots. They are assholes.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
38. You link to your own old thread, again? It's still Spam.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yes, if you oppose Hillary, you must be a republican.
Either that or someone who REJECTS:

- More lies
- More scandals
- More caving in to republicans
- More corporate rule by proxy
- More years of NO RESULTS on health care.
- More spineless leadership.

Hillary has been REJECTED by DEMOCRATS.

DU reflects that and if you don't like it, you are free to go to the DUmp.

I LMAO when someone claims the media has been anti-Hillary. They proclaimed her the presumptive nominee before the first person voted and have been trying to prop her up ever since. We had 24/7 Rev. Wright for two weeks or more, but that's what you call teflon. You have blinders on and only see what you want to see. Accept the fact that Hillary is going to lose and GROW UP. Obama is an excellent candidate and, instead of wallowing in your bitterness, you should be happy to see a Democrat who can inspire the American people like no candidate since RFK.

Your silly insults against Obama's supporters only reflect badly on you.



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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
36. Please explain Hillary's rise in Democratic support (too late for Wright effect)
which contradicts your assertion that she has been rejected by Democrats. Even though party leaders are lining up behind Obama and he has more money, voters are being drawn to her not deserting her.

No fair attributing it to supernatural powers or laser beam eyes.

Hillary does not cave in to anyone. That is why she is still in the race. The Irish will fight until they die or win, and the more you attack or victimize them, the harder they fight. The way to get Hillary to back down is to be nice to her and make her like you.

The RNC has been working behind the scene since last year to provoke hostilities between the Clinton and Obama camps and for a while both of them stayed above the fray until Obama snapped in Iowa and responded to Bob Novak's provocation---that lying drunkard claimed that he knew that Hillary had dirt on Obama that she wasn't going to use---and Obama called Hillary out in public and then his camp started calling Hillary a dirty trickster in the middle of the Iowa campaign based on Novak's word, costing her votes in Iowa, a state that can not stand dirty tricks. As if Hillary would ever talk to Bob Novak, the man who torpedoed her candidate George McGovern in 1972 with his "abortion, acid and amnesty" lie.

There has been a pattern of right wing sites making attacks on Obama which they credit to Hillary and Obama blaming Hillary. These are all documented in my journals "The Press vs. Obama" multipart and "The Press vs. Hillary" also multipart. To the Hillary camp, the RW attacks are obviously coming from the RNC. So, to her supporters, the Obama responses look like a calculated dirty trick. I used to think his responses were just naive. Now, I am not so sure.

But, even it he previous strategy was calculated, it was still naive, and it is not too late to learn something about national Democratic politics. There is a reason John Kerry was nominated in 2004. Obama supporters should think about that as they fling mud and as they cheer on the RWers who are visiting this board to fling mud. John Kerry beat Bush in 2004 (the election was stolen with voter suppression and other illegal tactics in Ohio and Florida). Will Obama do as well after they finish with him?
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. .......and you can't make a race horse out of a mule.
It must have taken you all day to put this propaganda out, 'eh?

If you're gonna be a sucker be a quiet one. Not unless your writing a play or an opera.

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Fine. I will post the same thing when Hillary is leading Obama and you guys are asking WHY?
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Do as you please madam!
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I always do.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
33. We can't see into your dreams.
NT!

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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. you don't have to sit around all day to catch Hillary in a lie
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. This post makes me think that some old drunken politician's head exploaded.
And all the bitterness of every failed campaign he's ever run splattered onto the screen. It makes nearly as much sense as well.

You really need to calm yourself down. These posts that lead people on with a bipartisan premise in the title that just smear Obama and his supporters with lies and conjecture are ridiculous and sad.

Go to bed or at least turn off the computer and have a nice glass of wine. It'll do you good.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. Because Americans have largely the same crappy minds regardless of ideology.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. No, no! Democrats are much nicer, esp in the South where I live. Maybe it is different
in other parts of the country.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. And it's that kind "no it's the other guy, it's not US"-ism that allows it to continue.
Edited on Sat Apr-05-08 10:08 PM by BlooInBloo
EDIT: Subject typo.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
26. Because both places are full of right wing knuckledraggers. n/t
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. True!!!!!!
Give him a gold star. Sometimes I wonder if the Obama supporters can tell that the RWers are here and if they care or if they are just glad for the help. I mean the enemy of my enemy is my friend is the way that some people operate.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
29. Because clinton's supporters lie for their lying candidate?
Btw, I don't even bother to read your horseshit anymore.

You fail.

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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. I try to wade through it but it's all just crap and innuendo that means nothing.
I hate all the Hillary bashing going on here, but I hate disingenuous threads like this even worse. She brings people in under false pretenses then vomits sewage at them. It's literally disgusting.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Then why bother to post anything?
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #37
56. Because I'm trying to do everything I can to ensure your lying candidate continues to fail.
Isn't it obvious?

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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #56
69. You are not succeeding at anything
but sounding like a Republican. We heard the exact same bullshit about Kerry and Gore and Mr. Clinton, over and over and over and over and over. :boring:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #29
54. So, you admit you will stupid and be sheepie. BO likes those kind of followers
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #29
70. Yeah, so much of a bother you have to post your horseshit.
Btw, you fail.
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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
39. I want my ten minutes back. n/t
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Can't have them.
:evilgrin:
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
40. Oops! Forgot the "DU Girls Room". Since the politics of tit for tat apply this primary
what is sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose. That means whatever is done to one candidate will be done to the other. That gives the RNC double the pleasure for half the work.

ANNOUNCER We are in the DU Girls Room, where the Hillary oppo team in combing through some old copies of the Chicago Sun-Times.

FEM-N-EST Look at this. It says here that Obama invented a game with the song Kumbaya when he was in grade school in Indonesia.

NO-BRA-CHIK You mean that Muslim school?

FEM-N-EST Oh, hush! This is the primary. Democrats don't care about religion. As long as he's not a Mormon

Everyone chuckles

FEM-N-EST Don't you think what he was really saying is he invented the song Kumaya ?

HILLFORQUEEN Is that before or after he wanted to be president?

FEM-N-EST It doesn't matter. If he said he invented Kumbaya he was lying. Here, put this on the stack.

NO-BRA-CHIK Which stack?

FEM-N-EST The Obama has been plotting to take over the world since he was in college so he can be a polygamist like his father stack.

ANNOUNCER It is dirty work but someone has to do it.

HILLFORQUEEN Ooo. Cooties! Who let that man in here?


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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. McCamy I enjoy reading your posts
Keep up the good work. :)
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. I am making a bunch of people really mad tonight. I am glad one person is having fun.
But some things just have to be said, whether they make me popular or not.

:patriot:
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
42. and once again, in a move that should surprise no one
the pot calls the kettle black.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. I don't use that phrase any more.
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. whether or not you use the phrase
it's what you're doing. But by all means please continue. It's amusing.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
46. Tedy Roosevelt on the dangers of Muck Raking
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/teddyrooseveltmuckrake.htm

Any excess is almost sure to invite a reaction; and, unfortunately, the reaction, instead of taking the form of punishment of those guilty of the excess, is very apt to take the form either of punishment of the unoffending or of giving immunity, and even strength, to offenders. The effort to make financial or political profit out of the destruction of character can only result in public calamity. Gross and reckless assaults on character, whether on the stump or in newspaper, magazine, or book, create a morbid and vicious public sentiment, and at the same time act as a profound deterrent to able men of normal sensitiveness and tend to prevent them from entering the public service at any price.

snip

There are beautiful things above and roundabout them; and if they gradually grow to feel that the whole world is nothing but muck, their power of usefulness is gone. If the whole picture is painted black there remains no hue whereby to single out the rascals for distinction from their fellows. Such painting finally induces a kind of moral color-blindness; and people affected by it come to the conclusion that no man is really black, and no man is really white, but they are all gray. In other words, they neither believe in the truth of the attack, nor in the honesty of the man who is attacked; they grow as suspicious of the accusation as of the offense; it becomes well-nigh hopeless to stir them either to wrath against wrong-doing or to enthusiasm for what is right; and such a mental attitude in the public gives hope to every knave, and is the despair of honest men.

To assail the great and admitted evils of our political and industrial life with such crude and sweeping generalizations as to include decent men in the general condemnation means the searing of the public conscience. There results a general attitude either of cynical belief in and indifference to public corruption or else of a distrustful inability to discriminate between the good and the bad. Either attitude is fraught with untold damage to the country as a whole. The fool who has not sense to discriminate between what is good and what is bad is well-nigh as dangerous as the man who does discriminate and yet chooses the bad. There is nothing more distressing to every good patriot, to every good American, than the hard, scoffing spirit which treats the allegation of dishonesty in a public man as a cause for laughter.

Such laughter is worse than the crackling of thorns under a pot, for it denotes not merely the vacant mind, but the heart in which high emotions have been choked before they could grow to fruition.

snip

Hysterical sensationalism is the very poorest weapon wherewith to fight for lasting righteousness. The men who with stern sobriety and truth assail the many evils of our time, whether in the public press or in magazines, or in books, are the leaders and allies of all engaged in the work for social and political betterment. But if they give good reason for distrust of what they say, if they chill the ardor of those who demand truth as a primary virtue, they thereby betray the good cause, and play into the hands of the very men against whom they are nominally at war.


This is what Starr was assigned to do with the office of the Special Prosecutor. He abused his position---and made sure that no one would investigate the next Bush president no matter how many laws he broke.

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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #46
61. Sez McCamy whilst balancing buckets of slop.
Don't lose your balance.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #61
65. Buckets of truth to wake you up.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #65
68. Oh, my, guess I didn't notice McCamy has an assistant.
Carry on.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. I wish I did have an assistant.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
47. REC
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. K/R
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
51. a bucket of truth
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #51
62. DU needs lots of buckets like the OP
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
55. Terry Southern wrote about Chicago 1968 because he was on the scene
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/convention96/retro/southern.html

I am convinced that Karl Rove has promised a bunch of aspiring members of the press a chance to become superstars in their own lifetime by covering another "scene".

However, it was an American tragedy, for all the soldiers who died in Viet Nam and for the people of Viet Nam, Cambodia and Laos. McCarthy supporters refused to get behind Humphrey whom they were convinced was a war monger. And yet history should have told them that the old commie hunter Nixon would never leave Viet Nam voluntarily no matter what he said.

In 1972, Pat Buchanan and CREEP engineered the same level on infighting and mass hysteria within the Democratic Party.

The RNC is trying for 1972 all over again.

The last thing they expect is unity.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
59. Obama has NEVER said we shouldn't fight back against the RW when attacked.
You can't show a single speech where he ever said anything remotely like that.

If you feel DU has been too hard on the more conservative candidate, that's your call. But Obama can't seriously believe that Obama would surrender to the right.

It's just that it would be easier to fight them if we won by a larger margin. HRC can't do more than just squeak through. She can't win solidly. And she can't bring new voters to the polls since she inspires no passion or excitement.

She's a fine administrator. But she can't lead the nation to anything new. Or anything progressive.

I'll vote for her if nominated.

But there's no reason to believe she's inherently superior.

And she'll have a particular obligation not to move right after the convention, as I assume you'll agree.



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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
60. Your posts, IMO, are a total waste of bandwidth.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #60
66. "Your posts, IMO, are a total waste of bandwidth."-
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
64. K & R
I was accused of being a disruptor yesterday. I'm tired of this place. It's become so ugly. It just seems like time to move on to other things that aren't so ugly and hateful as what DU has become because the fact is, I really don't need the abuse. I'm not sure what I'm going to do for news because this is where I used to come and the local newspaper, owned by Gannett, recently changed their format and put human interest, sports, more sports, and where to party on the weekend on the front page and basically hid anything that resembles actual news but I guess I can find it somewhere.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
67. k for the Truth
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
71. K&R...For truth.
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