Kerry: Obama Won't Be Swift Boated

[NJSecularist]

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/04/kerry_obama_won.html

LANSDOWNE, Pa. - Sen. John Kerry reached out to veterans here on Barack Obama's behalf Saturday, saying he believes Obama is more prepared to be commander in chief than Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton were when they took office.

Kerry told the crowd he did not think Obama would be victimized by GOP attacks the way he was in 2004 by the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth." Kerry took responsibility for not fighting the Swift Boat assaults more effectively, but he said advisors, including Bill Clinton, suggested he not defend himself aggressively.

"We didn't lose to them, I didn't lose to them, because we didn't answer it with the truth," Kerry said. "We did. We just didn't do it enough."

He said his campaign did not put enough money behind a campaign to counter the Swift Boat ads.

"We're not gonna get that close" to repeating the mistake, Kerry said. "We're just gonna come right back so hard and so fast."

Kerry said Obama had foreign policy experience from his travels abroad and service in the Senate and that he has a better understanding of foreign affairs than other successful presidents, including Reagan and Clinton.

"I believe he brings to the table a clear, sober sense of how you put into place the kinds of policies that will maximize America's weapons in their totality," Kerry said. "And one of the great lessons is no president should ever, ever, ever be allowed to go to war because he wants to. We should only go to war because we have to, and that's clear."

He also said there was a "night and day difference" between McCain and Obama's philosophies on Iraq troop deployment.

"Barack Obama is the only person running for president today who understood Iraq from the beginning, who declared his position on it clearly in the beginning, and who has expressed a foreign policy throughout this that I think captures the needs of our country, and frankly the needs of the world," he said.

Kerry also met with voters canvassing for Obama on Saturday. He will campaign in Carlisle and Harrisburg on Sunday.

Kerry will be a very valuable asset for Obama in the general election.

[anonymous171]

1. Good to hear Kerry talk about his experiences. He'll make sure it won't happen to Obama.

[1620rock]

2. He's too smart too late.

[anonymous171]

4. Yep. If only...

At least his failure has served as an example to other democrats so as not to make the same mistake.

[Tellurian]

23. Neither will Hillary be swiftboated by Kerry and the Obama campaign..

Play that "God Damn America" song on Beacon Hill with your windows wide open..

[anonymous171]

25. gb2hillaryis44. Please, just leave. You think Fonda and JFK were repugs

[Tellurian]

69. No I said Jane Fonda is supporting Obama..

and you thought I was kidding.. Then she announced her endorsement just the other day!

Hanoi Jane endorses Obama!

[Skidmore]

111. Only RW zealots and Swiftboaters called Fonda

"Hanoi Jane", which is why I think your favorite organization is a front for something else.

[DemVet]

117. I don't call her....

..."Hanoi Jane" but I do think her actions were traitorous. I think that's just the veteran part of me speaking.

Saying all Dems feel the same way about something uses a very broad brush.

[DemVet]

118. Obama won't be "swiftboated" by the RW? Yeah...riiiiiiight....uh huh.

:eyes:

Get ready for it people! The attacks from the repubs ARE coming whether you think they are or not. Don't whine about it when it happens...just get ready to deal with it. IT WILL HAPPEN.

edit...typo

[Hieronymus]

134. Oh my, you do sound like a Republican wingnut.

[Mooney]

79. I thought Obama already swiftboated Hillary successfully on race?

That's what I keep reading around here anyway. So if that's true, then Hillary Clinton is not even a strong enough candidate to successfully defend herself from Swiftboat-style attacks. I mean, if she couldn't defend herself from the swiftboating of some wet-behind-the-ears snake oil salesman, then what chance does she have against the Republicans?

Clearly, Hillary Clinton can't win. She couldn't even carry Illinois, and that's a big state that we'll need to carry in the GE.

[RC]

97. I'll sure be glad when you graduate from high school and get a day job.

[ericgtr]

121. Yes play it loud.. We can see how much it's hurting him in the polls

and the Hillary people have seen their last and only chance of playing right wing tactics within their own party slip away into the abyss.

[Hieronymus]

133. Hillary is doing one hell of a job of swiftboating herself, with help from

Bill and her hired goons.

[flpoljunkie]

115. Guess this is what Douglas Brinkley meant about the "Clintons sticking the knife in his back..."

Whom does the biographer think his subject will pick as a running mate? Not Hillary Rodham Clinton.

"There's really two different Democratic parties right now: there's the Clintons and Terry McAuliffe and the DNC and then there's the Kerry upstarts. John Kerry had one of the great advantages in life by being considered to get the nomination in December. He watched every Democrat in the country flee from him, and the Clintons really stick the knife in his back a bunch of times, so he's able to really see who was loyal to him and who wasn't. That's a very useful thing in life."

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

[wileedog]

12. I'm sure he has spent a lot of time

thinking through his mistakes.

[anonymous171]

15. And rightly so.

He must redeem himself in this election for all the pain we've been through these past 4 years.

[pocoloco]

21. And washing blood off his hands!

[ProSense]

67. Oh BS!

Kerry was one of only a handful of Senators warning Bush against invading Iraq. Where were Hillary and Bill?

[travelingtypist]

3. Yawn.

Shut up, Senator. Too little, too late.

[ProSense]

6. What does that mean? He's talking about Obama. n/t

[travelingtypist]

56. I don't care what he was talking about.

The rage I felt at JK when he abandoned us in 2004
and slunk off into the twilight has never calmed or
abated. I hate JK with almost the same intensity
that I hate Bush. I believed JK to be a courageous
man. Instead I found out he was <insert sexist
remark that will get this post deleted if I type it>.

[ProSense]

81. Stay bitter because you are highly misinformed. There is enough information posted throughout DU

forums to debunk your claim. So stay bitter.

Know though, your bitterness is irrelevant to this race: Obama is the candidate.

[travelingtypist]

127. Read below -- I'm not a Hillary supporter. Get a clue.

So you staying bitter about Bush then?

[cliffordu]

95. Yawn. Poor baby.

Here, maybe this will help:

:hurts:


There you go: all sweet and clean.

Kerry is twice the man you'll ever be.

[travelingtypist]

126. Yawn? Original.

I can take care of myself, thanks. Thick skin, all of that, dealing with
people who can forgive a guy for giving us four more years of Bush. When
my loyalty to a candidate is betrayed, I take that personally.

[karynnj]

136. He didn't betray you - he fought as hard as he could

He and his entire family were out working as hard as possible - He couldn't prove that he got more votes in Ohio. That would have been the only way to be deemed the winner.

You do know that there still is no clear cut proof that more people cast votes for him in Ohio. You can't count votes never cast - and many of the "lost votes" in RFK jr's analysis were votes not cast.

You remind me of my daughter who pouted for a day when I didn't take her to a promised kids' concert - that was cancelled by snow. The difference - that was for a day and she was 4 - this has been 3 and a half years and you are likely older than 4.

[karynnj]

137. He didn't betray you - he fought as hard as he could

He and his entire family were out working as hard as possible - He couldn't prove that he got more votes in Ohio. That would have been the only way to be deemed the winner.

You do know that there still is no clear cut proof that more people cast votes for him in Ohio. You can't count votes never cast - and many of the "lost votes" in RFK jr's analysis were votes not cast.

You remind me of my daughter who pouted for a day when I didn't take her to a promised kids' concert - that was cancelled by snow. The difference - that was for a day and she was 4 - this has been 3 and a half years and you are likely older than 4.

[blm]

122. Did you have a talk with the DNC about how they LET the RNC steal that election for Bush

and how they made sure Kerry WOULDN'T have the legal evidence he needed to take to court?

I think you misdirected your anger. That election was stolen everyday for the four years after 2000's theft and the DNC sat on their hands and made sure of it to protect Hillary2008.

[travelingtypist]

128. JK slunk off into the night.

Blaming the DNC doesn't change that.

He said he had courage and I believed him. He lied and I hate him
for it.

[blm]

135. Courage to WHAT? Create legal evidence where there was none? There are probably only TWO people

in all of DC who would jump to risk their life to save YOURS or any member of your family.

Could you even believe YOU would do the same for someone else?

Can you name ONE person who risked his life and career MORE than Kerry did when he took on all of the DC powerstructure for 5 and 1/2 years while most everyone in BOTH parties was working against him?

You think anyone else had the guts to uncover IranContra, illegal wars in Central America, BCCI and CIA drugrunning with most of DC set against their work, even in his own party?

You blame the man who had NO EVIDENCE that could have stayed that concession that day.

Some here at DU even make those who worked against Kerry to cover up for BushInc in the 90s, and who sabotaged Dem voters the last ten years their political heroes.

What a waste of brain matter are those who reward the deceivers and target the few honest lawmakers we have.

[Cha]

8. No, the Senator from Massachusetts should not

shut up..it's been a long road and no one is perfect..I'm really glad to have Senator Kerry's help.

[QC]

5. Too bad Kerry didn't have a little of that fighting spirit in 2004.

We wouldn't be sitting here in Year 8 of the Bush Occupation.

[NJSecularist]

7. They fought off the attacks, they just didn't have the money to spend airing ads fighting the claims

They took public financing and didn't have adequate funds to fight the Swift Boat thugs.

[Tellurian]

61. Kerry must be jealous of the income shown on Clinton's Tax Returns..

he is a spiteful SOB... and jealous too!
:rofl:

Bill earned a whopping $51 Million dollars for speaking engagements.. I wonder if Kerry even gets a call?

Here are a few comments from the article: They don't seem to have a huge readership so:

****"Kerry STILL hasn't debunked the charges in the Swift Boat ads.....you may think he has.....and
the MSM won't embarrass him with pointed questions.....but this blowhard marches on
still believing that he was worthy of the top prize."

hombre | 04.05.08 11:03 PM

****"So Bill Clinton advised him not to hit back at the attacks vigorously? Hmmm. That smells funny and it smells like a potentially huge story. I mean seriously, Bill Clinton, the guy who brought Carville and Dick Morris into the White House advised Kerry not to hit back against the attacks? Bill Clinton? The red-faced finger wagger? Hmmmm indeed."

[AirmensMom]

110. Kerry's spiteful?

You need a mirror.

[Inuca]

112. You are pathetic

:puke:

[beachmom]

116. I think it fair to say you are no Democrat. Because no Democrat would cite

far right winger tripe to augment their argument.

[karynnj]

139. In case you forgot, John and Teresa Kerry are far richer and classier than Bill Clinton will ever be

Kerry did debunk the SBVT - and Senator Warner, then Secretary of the Navy even took the time to state that he personally reviewed Kerry's paperwork and the Silver Star was well deserved. The three papers that DIRECTLY received his naval records verifed that they were exactly what he had on his web site for ovewr a year. Those records backed Kerry's medals.

The fact is that it wasn't the SBVT's stories vs Kerry's but the SBVT against the official record. The fact is that Nixon investigated Kerry in the 1970s - and he was found to be a clean war hero.

You have outed yourself here - Democrats don't support the SBVT. You do remember that you said that it was wrong to mention ANY accusations against teh Clintons even if there was substantial proof.

All you have to do is look at the two men recently - one is happy and at peace with himself - the other is showing a very nasty side of himself - red faced with his finger in people's faces.

[blues90]

75. really , what happened the the 50 million Kerry held onto ?

I held my nose and voted for Kerry but he blew it with his promise to count all the votes and to allow them the swift boat him in the first place .

[NJSecularist]

80. He had an $85 million dollar federal limit

Just like George W. The difference is that Bush could use his $85 million over an 8 week period while Kerry had to use it over a 13 week period because our convention was held 5 weeks earlier.

Kerry used up all of his $85 million.

[blm]

124. Do you KNOW who Terry McAuliffe is? Did he spend DNC's money on securing the election process

in the four years after 2000's theft?

Did Bush win or did RNC steal it for Bush?

[ProSense]

10. Too bad he endorsed Obama.

Too bad it doesn't matter.

Too bad for Obama.

Kerry's endorsement served Obama, the better candidate, quite well. Can you tell?

[QC]

17. It didn't seem to help much in Massachusetts. n/t

[rodeodance]

nada!!

[beachmom]

48. Actually it did. Obama made up 20 points. But Hillary was WAY AHEAD, sometimes

polling 40 points ahead. Massachusetts is fond of the Clintons. Remember that they used to vacation on Martha's Vineyard. They remain loyal to the Clintons. I think Kerry was quite brave to endorse there, and his support both as a surrogate and the media attention, as well as on the ground help, helped prevent Clinton gaining too many delegates than she would have had Kerry stayed on the sidelines.

[ProSense]

55. He won Boston by 10,000 votes coming from 20 points behind in the state.

He won some additional endorsement based on Kerry's. So he did well.

[beachmom]

24. Too bad Bill Clinton advised him not to defend himself more aggressively against the Swifts

Wow, Bill Clinton was a lousy adviser. What the hell kind of advice was that?

[QC]

30. And what sort of person would take such lousy advice?

And yes, it is lousy advice.

Kerry would do well to take responsibility for his own mistakes, though--this only makes him look childish.

[beachmom]

52. Hello! He said he takes full responsibility for his campaign. I think it pertinent

that he point out who agreed with how he conducted his campaign during that time. Apparently, Bill Clinton was one of them.

[QC]

63. Yes, he says he's taking responsibility for it and then immediately

blames someone else. That's not how one takes responsibility. And it truly boggles the mind that someone with Kerry's decades in politics would think that attacks like the SB ones could be safely ignored.

Kerry was, in the end, a lousy candidate. The process often sticks us with the most thoroughly mediocre of the candidates, and 2004 was no exception.

[beachmom]

He didn't ignore it. He responded. It just wasn't effective enough.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/8/21/23649/5768

Seems like there was a lot of action going on from the Kerry campaign, including an ad released on 8/21/04 called "Old Tricks". Josh Marshall thought it was a really good ad:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_08_15.php#003302

Today at a rally, John Edwards said, among other things, "This is a moment of truth for George W. Bush. We're going to see what kind of man he is and what kind of leader he is. ... We want to hear three words: Stop these ads."

Okay for today. But no more of this.

We already know what kind of a man he is. He's got a track record.

...

Far more important, it's whining. Begging. At a minimum, it can come off or be characterized that way. And it sounds weak. This is about hitting back, not flaunting high-mindedness.

If the president's behavior is really as bad as the Kerry-Edwards team is saying it is, then it's really past the point of asking him to do the right thing and redeem himself.

The excellent ad the Kerry campaign put out today -- the one with McCain confronting Bush -- ends with the line "America can do better."

It doesn't say, "George W. Bush, please stop" or "George W. Bush should do the right thing." It says "America can do better" or, in other words, he's shown us what kind of person he is and he shouldn't be president.

No need to be nasty. "America can do better" says all that needs be said. Drive that point home and move the debate back to the president's failed record at home and abroad.

If he was doing ads, he wasn't ignoring them. That is a revisionist history and a lie. He was fighting back. But it wasn't effective. He should have upped the ante. That is different than saying he "ignored" them, which is a lie.

[QC]

87. True. The response was extremely ineffective.

I wanted to see some fire from Kerry, but instead he acted like someone had accused him of using the wrong fork for the fish course.

And then he rolled over in Ohio after promising us that he would fight to the bitter end. I believed him, too. Fool me once....

[ProSense]

72. It's not blame, it's pointing out bad advice. As Kerry said, he would have used more money to fight

them if it had been available.

[merh]

83. Pay attention

Bill Clinton told him not to fight it.

He trusted folks who gave him bad advice.

[QC]

86. Anybody who would take that particular bit of advice has no business using grownup scissors,

much less running for president.

[beachmom]

Then Hillary Clinton should drop out immediately, because Bill is advising her. nt

[merh]

92. Ermmm, it came from a twice successful president

but I do agree with you and it appears that in hindsight, so does Kerry. Shame that dems can't trust dems, makes one wonder why the bad advice.

[blm]

123. Kerry fought - But MOST wellknown Dem leaders supported Bush's decisions on Iraq and PUBLICLY

defended Bush from the very criticisms Kerry was aiming at him, and did so REPEATEDLY throughout 2004, including the very high profile book tour of the LAST DEM PRESIDENT.

You think Clinton's extensive and high profile and repeated defense of Bush on his Iraq decisions was done INNOCENTLY in the summer of 2004?

[madfloridian]

9. Kerry said "advisors, including Bill Clinton, suggested he not defend himself aggressively."

Good for Kerry for saying that. That was terrible advice that Bill Clinton gave him.

[Tellurian]

13. Link? hard to believe that.. please provide a link to that statement

[beachmom]

28. In the Hotline article. Kerry himself said it. Um, pretty damned explosive, if you ask me.

Unless Hotline misquoted him.

[Forkboy]

44. When I ask you for links you run.

:rofl:

[Arugula Latte]

14. Probably hoping to keep a Democrat out ot the White House until

Hillary could get her cake-walk coronation in '08.

[Tellurian]

16. Kerry promised to fight for us...he went back on his promise and conceded 3 hrs after the results..

[AX10]

26. Kerry made the choice himself...

to go on vacation while being assaulted by the swiftboaters. He also, had 15 million in the bank
after the election that could have been spent on advertisements.

I have no respect for him after the 2004 election.

[beachmom]

31. Then I guess you have no respect for Bill Clinton who told Kerry not

to aggressively fight back against the Swifts. That was the advice he gave. If this article is quoted correctly, looks like Bill Clinton is now in the Bob Shrum category.

[Tellurian]

34. So you say with impunity but FAIl to provide proof.. why is that?

[beachmom]

40. It's in the article linked in the OP! Either you believe Kerry or you don't.

But what he said is the proof.

[Forkboy]

45. You post RW garbage and then hide when asked for links....why is that?

[AX10]

35. Kerry made the choice.

Also, Kerry provides no evidence that Bill told him not to defend himself.
Maybe, Kerry is trying to blame Bill for his (Kerry's) own failures.

[beachmom]

43. Why would he lie? And Kerry is not running for president. Obama and Hillary are.

Kerry takes responsibility for his campaign, but now that it is '08, it is important to look at who was advising him and what they said.

Hate to tell you, Clinton supporters. But this reminds me of when Kerry let it slip out that it was the McCain people who came to him inquiring about a VP slot. Kerry is not known for lying. There is no reason to say it unless it is the truth. Bill, OTOH, is a well documented liar. Expect his denial shortly.

[loveangelc]

59. So Kerry is lying about Bill Clinton???

I remember hearing that his advisors and even bill clinton told him this back in 04. Gawd, you are dense. You still refuse to believe the Clinton's do no wrong when all evidence points out otherwise. Thank God the Clinton's are quickly becoming yesterday's news. People who live in the past may have a hard time with this, but its true.

[karynnj]

140. Wrong

The $15 million was from te primaries and couyldn't be used.
He did not go onm vacation - He did windsurf in a photo opt during the Republican convention when Democrats NEVER campaign - the rest of the day was debate practice.

[pocoloco]

27. Anybody ever figure out what happened to those 20,000 lawyers

he had watching the poles??

[stillcool]

107. kind of hard to find votes that aren't there...

that Ohio lawsuit was going on for forever, but I don't recall how it ended. Weren't there some resignations and such? The good thing to come out of all of that was the study done by the now Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner...
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/info/everest.aspx
THE REPORT

The Evaluation & Validation of Election-Related Equipment, Standards & Testing report, known as EVEREST, is a comprehensive review of voting systems revealing startling findings on voting machines and systems used in Ohio and throughout the country. The Ohio study tested the systems for:
- risks to vote security,
- system performance, including load capacity,
- configuration to currently certified systems specifications, and
- operations and internal controls that could mitigate risk.

The $1.9 million study, paid for using federal funds, was structured to allow two teams of scientists, corporate and academic, to conduct parallel assessment of the security of the state’s three voting systems - Election Systems & Software (ES&S), Hart Intercivic and Premier Election Solutions (formerly Diebold) - in both voting and board of elections environments. Separate research was conducted on each voting system’s performance, configuration and operations and internal controls management. A bipartisan team of 12 election board directors and deputy directors advised the study and evaluated all reports, participating with the secretary in making recommendations for change.

[IntravenousDemilo]

19. Well, we know why Clinton gave him that advice, don't we?

Because it would have been very difficult for Hillary to unseat an incumbent President Kerry as the 2008 Democratic nominee.

[Tellurian]

29. No we don't. Unless you can think of a better Lie..

[Willo]

11. Oh this is good news.

And on that good note, I say good night DU.

[Pirate Smile]

18. This is new - "Kerry took responsibility for not fighting the Swift Boat assaults more effectively,

but he said advisors, including Bill Clinton, suggested he not defend himself aggressively."

Hmmm

[anonymous171]

22. Well, the responsibility was ultimately Kerry's.

But yeah, thanks Bill.

[beachmom]

38. Well, but this puts Bill Clinton in the category of being in favor of "not fighting back"

So when the Clintonistas came out after the election, and the Hillary campaign itself keeps saying they would be able to deal with swiftboating unlike Kerry, I think this admission from Kerry shows they actually would do no better. They were just as wrong as Bob Shrum.

Agreed that it was Kerry's ultimate responsibility. But he's not running for president now, and the team who claims they can fight the right wing is full of advisors including the Big Dog himself who advised Kerry not to aggressively fight back.

[beachmom]

20. Holy crow! Bill Clinton advised Kerry not to fight back aggressively against the Swifts?

That is a remarkable piece of information. Kind of interesting since 1 minute after Kerry conceded the election, the Clintonistas started bashing him for "not fighting back" against the SBVT. Now we find out he was only following advice from Bill Clinton. Wow, just wow.

[Tellurian]

32. And now we only have Madflorian's word on that...unless a link to a source materialises..

[anonymous171]

33. It's in the article.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/04/kerry_obama_won.html

[depakid]

36. And thus, you actually believe that?

I guess there are an awful lot of Americans who'll believe damn near anything... so long as it reinforces their own beliefs.

[anonymous171]

42. Here you go:

In an expansive conversation, Mr. Clinton, who is awaiting heart surgery, told Mr. Kerry that he should move away from talking about Vietnam, which had been the central theme of his candidacy, and focus instead on drawing contrasts with President Bush on job creation and health care policies, officials with knowledge of the conversation said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/06/politics/campaign/06kerry.html

[depakid]

50. OK, I semi stand corrected

"Officials with knowledge" -or in other words "some say."

Not the best of evidence, but not no evidence, either.

[Tellurian]

41. Thanks for posting. I will enjoy hearing BC call Kerry out on that whopper..

Clinton was recuperating from Triple by pass surgery and campaigned for Kerry several weeks after the surgery, when he barely should have been out of the house never mind stumping for a fellow democrat. I'd be hard pressed to believe that LIE spoken out of Kerry's mouth. Kerry also said, he would FIGHT for us...another Lie.. That makes John Kerry look like an out and out LIAR to me!

[AX10]

46. That does make Kerry a liar!

[beachmom]

66. You guys have no idea what the word "lie" means. You hear it,

and immediately say he is lying. What the hell? Shouldn't you at least wait for a response? How do YOU know? Sorry, this makes sense. The DLC seemed to have worked over time to do in Kerry's campaign. I guess he listened to them because in the '90s they won. Looks like that experience no longer means much. It was a '90s pre-9/11 thing that will not repeat itself. That or they wanted him to lose so that Hillary could win in '08. Thing is her campaign has blundered so badly, maybe they really have lost their ability to win in the big leagues anymore.

[karynnj]

141. Not to mention you heard, Carvelle, McAuliffe and Begala

in 2004 repeating the same theme that Clinton supposedly said that Kerry should listen to Clinton and speak of the economy - not Iraq and terrorism - because those are the issues that Bush wants disscussed and not Vietnam. Now, Kerry had just one line in his stump speech on Vietnam - "that he had fought for his country as a youngman in Vietnam. The only time he said more in that time frame was the Firefighter's speech where he defended himself and said that the truth was what it was 35 years before - and he listed the medals that he said the Navy gave him. In all of 2004, there was no Kerry description of the heroism he showed in Vietnam. The NYT quote upthread does back Kerry here.

There is no way Kerry could have defended himself without mentioning Vietnam.

My guess the egotistica; Bill resented that Kerry was a real hero - and he wasn't.

[Life Long Dem]

108. Hypocrite! Hillary is a pathological liar.

[loveangelc]

65. You support a liar and her lying husband, so why would lying be a problem for you at all..?

[Demobrat]

37. MadFloridian's word

and Kerry's. He said it, she didn't.

[Tellurian]

47. The funny thing is She knows he's lying..

I saw the documentary of his campaign.. Bill Clinton was never mentioned not one time in his campaign. What I did see, was his campaign chairman Beth something.. as inept a person as you would ever want to hire to run a campaign againt the RW..

[ProSense]

51. He's not lying, you wish, but Bill is exposed. From gays to Iraq, he

sold out in 2004.

[Demobrat]

53. Why on earth would Kerry lie about something like that?

It makes him sound like a total tool with no opinions of his own.

[ProSense]

58. No it make Bill sound clueless or unhelpful. After his comment defending Bush on Iraq

it's just more of the same from him.

[karynnj]

142. Great memory

Kerry did mention Clinton - many times when he spoke of the economy. The documentary covered some random rather low level campaign people far more than the inner circle - and had only short segments of Kerry behind the scene. Certainly not a comprehensive view of what he did 12-16 hours a day for over a year.

If you mean Mary Beth Cahill, she helped Kerry run a far better primary campaign than HRC's motley crew has.

[backscatter712]

39. Obama will be swiftboated, but he knows how to fight 'em.

Hillary and her new friends in the right wing media already tried, and Obama came back brilliantly.

Certainly, the McCain camp will also try. People were criticizing Obama for not being vetted? He's been vetted now, folks.

[Tellurian]

49. yeah, Obama knows how to whine better than anything else..

[HCE SuiGeneris]

129. Nah, you and your hit squad have that honor.

Congrats.

[karynnj]

143. True - it was pathetic when he was near tears about how hard it was

before NH. Oh, that was HRC.

[polichick]

54. It was my great pleasure to meet Senator Kerry today at a veterans event...

I thanked him for asking Barack to make the 2004 speech, and for campaigning on his behalf. I almost added that I consider him one of the yummiest Senators. lol

[JI7]

how luck you are

i do consider him one of the yummiest senators and do plan on letting him know whenever i meet him.

[polichick]

71. I hope you get the chance to do that soon :)

He was very nice and approachable. In his talk he likened this grassroots movement to the one that led up to the first Earth Day and all the environmental legislation that followed ~ saying that when millions of people demand accountability and are willing to fire Congresspeople who don't comply, change happens fast.

[beachmom]

76. Ha, ha, ha!! Glad you got to see him today. Did he look good? nt

[polichick]

82. He looked great - fit, healthy and upbeat...

Even more handsome than on TV, and very friendly. He's one of my political favs, so it was really nice to be there!

[travelingtypist]

57. ...

[ProSense]

60. Wow, it's amazing how Kerry can make Hillary supporter fly the coop! n/t

[travelingtypist]

62. Who are you calling a Hillary supporter?

:wtf:

I take that as a great insult.

If you had done a search on me, you'd see my thread when Ferarro blabbed and Hillary didn't disavow her.

Do a little homework before you get all snippy.

[ProSense]

68. Calm down, it was a general statement about the responses. Don't feel insulted. Sorry to offend. n/t

[QC]

78. They think that there are only two types of people in the world:

those who have accepted the Obamessiah as lord and savior and thus walk in the ways of hope and peace and obamatude, and the evil spawn of Satan who worship at Hillary's clawlike feet and hope to drive hope and love and fluffy bunnies out of the world.

The thought that this comforting little binary might not be true is too much for them even to consider.

[ProSense]

85. They who? In this thread there are: People blowing a gasket over the OP and everyone else. n/t

[travelingtypist]

130. Thank you.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Middle finga]

64. Kerry problem was, he thought the american people were intelligent

enough not to fall for the garbage the swift boat veterans were peddling but now he realize he was sadly mistaking. Now he's learned too never over estimate the american public

[MethuenProgressive]

70. Kerry endorses Obama's Swiftboating of the Clintons on Race!

"Hey, it worked to destory the best candidate last time,
so why not use it to destroy the best candidate this time? GOBAMA!!"

[loveangelc]

73. Bill Clinton told Kerry not to defend himself against the swiftboat attacks.

you do not find that....pathetic? I would have told him to be out there as soon as it happens.

[MethuenProgressive]

77. You believe that?

Obama's got some Haywain swamp land to sell ya.

[loveangelc]

84. Give me a reason to believe Kerry is lying.

[tabasco]

74. Fuckinay Kerry! I love you man!

You fucked up on your war vote but you were man enough to admit it.

You elevate Obama over yourself in that regard and that shows me you are still that same hero that won the Silver Star!

:patriot:

[polichick]

88. Who told Sen. Kerry to stop fighting the election results?

I recall posts about that, but not the details ~ didn't that also involve Dems??

[QC]

89. That's probably someone else's fault, too. n/t

[ProSense]

90. Kerry kept fighting despite James "Judas" Carville's sabotage! n/t

[polichick]

93. Aren't those same Ohio machines now part of a court case...

...dealing with 2006 results?

[ProSense]

96. In 2006, Dean was head of the DNC. In 2004, it was Terry McAuliffe

Better infrastructure going in and coming out of the 2006 election.

[polichick]

101. Seems Ohio is still having big problems...

This is the story I was thinking about.

<http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/18/213736/104/417/479601>

[ProSense]

103. That's a far cry from what happened in 2004, when the party

abandoned the efforts in Ohio.

[polichick]

113. Well, two things happened in 2004 - machines were rigged and Dems gave up the fight...

It's the details of how that went down that are unclear to me. I know Senator Kerry said he would fight the results. But then James Carville somehow got involved, and suddenly Kerry accepted the results.

My questions: What did Carville say and on whose behalf? And why would Kerry listen to him anyway??


(We obviously have a lot of firing to do in Congress ~ it's criminal that we STILL don't have a secure and verifiable voting system.)

[karynnj]

146. True and the difference was in the wake of 2006 we have a

Democratic Secretay of State. Kerry had Blackwell in that position.

[beachmom]

91. Well, we know what James Carville did. He passed on secret info

to his wife who passed it onto the Bush campaign, that Kerry was going to fight, before the number of provisional ballots suddenly went down.

[polichick]

94. How did Carville get the info?

[ProSense]

98. Here

a link is posted here to all the information about Carville

[polichick]

102. I guess "Ragin' Cajun" is the nice way to put it.

[blm]

125. Terry McAuliffe certainly wasn't working for Kerry or Dem voters from 2001-2005, was he?

Carville HAD to have gotten the info from McAuliffe.

[karynnj]

144. It was the numbers - there were simply not enough votes or

big enough descrepancies to make a legitimate case. The same people who told Gore to fight it - told Kerry there was no case. There still isn't. Teh RFK and other analyses depend on estimates of votes not cast. It is clear that Blackwell - like Harris - sold the election. They were MORE efficient in Ohio - Gore at least could get the needed votes by a full review of the state's balots.

In Ohio, Kerry was down by about 60,000 not 537 and the methods used were those that kept people from voting.

[karynnj]

145. It was the numbers - there were simply not enough votes or

big enough descrepancies to make a legitimate case. The same people who told Gore to fight it - told Kerry there was no case. There still isn't. Teh RFK and other analyses depend on estimates of votes not cast. It is clear that Blackwell - like Harris - sold the election. They were MORE efficient in Ohio - Gore at least could get the needed votes by a full review of the state's balots.

In Ohio, Kerry was down by about 60,000 not 537 and the methods used were those that kept people from voting.

[BenDavid]

99. tough talk from a man that allowed himself to be swiftboated, but

Is it racist to ask if the GOP is going to scare America into thinking Obama is some crazy Muslim with a radical agenda? Of course they're going to do that and I have real money to bet on it. McCain hired Bush's "Willie Horton" team to run his campaign.What do YOU think this campaign will be about? It's going to be about fear. C'mon, is this your first day in politics? IF Obama is unelectable because of Wright, should we just eat that and lose again?

[NJSecularist]

100. Who did he hire from GHW Bush's Willie Horton team? n/t

[Ravy]

104. Great. Now Kerry is blaming *his* loss on the Clintons.

The Obama camp has no shame.

[ProSense]

105. "The Obama camp has no shame." How does your feigned outrage square

with Hillary and Bill's frequent, intentional and repeated lies? Her entire campaign has been a Pinocchio quest.

[Mezzo]

106. Kerry said HE wouldn't be swiftboated...and that he'd fight.

but he was swiftboated, and he conceded.

[H2O Man]

109. Very interesting.

I think that all of life imitates the sport of boxing. And Barack Obama is what we call a "counter-puncher." That means he enjoys having his opponent through punches at him, because it provides him the opportunity to punch back, inside the punches being thrown at him. It is an art that is based on balance: hhis must be perfect, and it takes advantage of the opponent's being off balance as their punch reaches full extension.

[Firespirit]

114. The ugliness on this thread is proof that the Clinton supporters whining about the attacks here

and posting continuous threads with the theme of "OMG WHAT HAS DU COME TO, ATTACKING DEMOCRATS!" are hypocrites of the first order.

Isn't Kerry a liberal Democrat, whiners? Yet there has been constant smearing on here ever since 2004. Where was your righteous outrage then?

Or is he one of the politicians who don't count?

[FlaGranny]

119. Wow. It all makes so much more sense now.

I always wondered why Kerry caved like that. Taking advice from a winning political machine, the history since then, Bush winning re-election, Bill Clinton cozying up to the Bushes, Hillary running in 2008. Kerry coming our for Obama. Hmmmmmm. Does 2 + 2 = 4?

[boston bean]

120. oooh that's reassuring....

[Bensthename]

131. Its funny how Clinton supporters think she won't be swift boated.

Do they really not remember all the skeletons that were brought out of the Clinton closet during Bills presidency?

Being a nice fellow dem I will not bring them up.. But, for them to make the case that the repubs will not be able to swift boat Hillary is laughable.

[Skip Intro]

132. Blaming Clinton, Kerry seeks a vicarious rematch against the repubs via Obama.

More accurate headline.

And he's wrong. He was wrong then. He's wrong now. They didn't just do it to him. They did it to many. Cleland. Daschle. None of them survived.

Now you have in Obama a man of big slogans but little accomplishments, with a spiritual mentor of 20+ yrs who screamed from the pulpit, "God Damn America," with a wife who said she'd never been proud of America until her husband ran for prez, and a video of Obama not placing his hand on his heart for the National Anthem, while all those around him did. It's ready made for the repukes, who used far less to great advantage last in 2002 and 2004.

Kerry, you ran, I voted for you, but you lost. Get over it.

And if I may be so bold as to ask a question to the Obama people reading this, how is it ok for Obama to repeatedly slam Hillary for her vote in the IWR, yet have Kerry, who voted the same way, stuck to his side? We are to trust Kerry and vote Obama, but we cannot trust Clinton because she voted the same way as Kerry. Can you see where it gets a little confusing?

[candice]

138. Did Obama ever serve in the Navy? Has he commanded a Swift Boat?