You think it's been ugly on GDP so far?

[cali]

If we're not careful, as the primary season winds down, there'll be increased attacks on both candidates from all directions. Hillary's campaign itself is desperate, the media doesn't want an end to their delicious battle royale, some of Hillary's supporters are desperate and some of Obama's supporters are fearful that in the end, despite his lead, Hillary will get the nomination. Hillary is flailing when she claims bizarrely that she criticized the Iraq war before Obama. Desperation is what makes a Hillary supporter claim that Barack Obama is responsible for Randi Rhodes calling Hillary a whore. And the attacks on Hillary for bookbags or the story about a mother and her still born child not receiving adequate care in Ohio? Pathetic. A columnist having a fit about Obama calling a woman worker in a candy manufacturing plant "sweetie", and Clinton supporters here running with it? Pfft.

The number of baseless attacks on both candidates is insanely high. Do we really want to see it get worse?

I can only speak for myself, but I will not post threads that attack Hillary Clinton for the sake of attacking her or sticking it to her supporters. I've used the term hillbot liberally because I was pissed off about being called an Obamabot. I'm going to make every effort not to do that in the future, regardless of the provocation and temptation.

This campaign, to date, hasn't been nearly as bad as you'd be led to believe if GDP was your primary source of information. Yes, it's been hard fought, and any two candidates in the same position as Hillary and Barack would be duking it out. It's magnified because of race and gender.

I don't hate Hillary Clinton. I think it's nonsense to call her a pathological liar. I didn't even see the Bosnia thing as that big a deal. If she wins the nomination, something that is pretty unlikely, I know she'll take it to McCain and fight like hell. If you think Obama won't fight McCain effectively, you haven't been paying attention so far. If you hate either Clinton or Obama, you're letting yourself be manipulated and letting your emotions get the better of you.

There are trolls here who delight in shit stirring, and there are people who simply can't bear the thought of their candidate losing. It's going to be a long two weeks until PA, and with not much really happening, it's that much easier for minor things to be blown out of proportion.

May calmer heads prevail and may we remember how vitally important it is for dems to win back the White House next November.

[bridgit]

1. word!

[napoleon_in_rags]

43. words!

because words is what so much of this BS is about. How many people did Obama's "sweetie" comment or Hillary's bookbag kill? NOBODY. How many people did Bush's lies about Iraq's WMD's kill? hundreds of thousands. I love seeing posts like this that reflect a proper sense of proportion.

[Ken Burch]

2. K&R and I wish I could recommend it about twenty more times.

Thanks, cali.

[cboy4]

6. Ken, what happened to your will you support the nominee

if it's Hillary thread?

Did you get a whole three Obama supporters to pledge they would?

I know Cali will, but the silence in that thread spoke volumes.

Don't you think?

[Ken Burch]

15. It wasn't just a "will Obama supporters support the nominee if it's HRC" thread

It was a "if you've said you won't support the nominee if it's not YOUR candidate, please think again".

Here it is, for those who'd like to see it(including cboy's completely unjustified hostile posts: )

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5379154

And you know as well as I do cboy that supporters of BOTH campaigns are equally guilty of threatening non-support. HRC people do it as much as some Obama people have.

Stop pretending that it's only been Obama backers.

And stop disrupting threads that call for party unity and an end to threats of non-support.

I got a lot of positive response to that thread, other than your unjustified hostility and disruption. You were snide and nasty for no reason about it. You should have supported what I was doing, rather than acting like the whole thing was a joke or a trick.

[Window]

28. I did not see Ken's thread because I have not been online much.

However, I must have pledged to vote for Hillary if she is the nominee at least a hundred times. There have been countless threads/polls re that pledge and I will not answer any more.

[Ken Burch]

31. It wasn't just about getting Obama people to vote for a HRC ticket

It was equally about getting HRC people to vote for an Obama ticket.

cboy is twisting my words, and doing so to support the myth that it's ONLY been Obama people threatening disloyalty, in in truth, as cboy knows, supporters of BOTH candidates are equally to blame for doing that.

[Window]

38. Gotcha Ken.

It's absolutely both sides.

[cboy4]

10. And Ken, I think you believe I'm making fun of you....but

I'm absolutely not.

I know what you were trying to do, and it's admirable.

But you have to at least recognize my point.

[Ken Burch]

16. I don't accept your sincerity here.

Your whole rationale for posting in that thread was to disrupt and to bash Obama people.

You refused to accept that HRC people are equally guilty of threatening non-support.

I don't accept what you claim to be "your point".

You know both campaigns's supporters are equally to blame for the bad blood and for threatening not to support the other candidate if nominated. Why do you persist in pretending it's ONLY Obama people doing it?

It was that bias in your posts that led me to the conclusion that(despite your disavowals)you're now a HRC person. Why don't you just admit it?

If you do in this thread or in any other pro-unity thread again, I WILL put you on ignore. Don't make me do that.

You're a better person than to lower yourself to this.

[cboy4]

17. You don't think it's ironic that in a pro-unity thread ---

-- one that you've threatened me to behave, you're falsely accusing me of being a "HRC person?"

And despite your silly threat to put me on ignore (oh the humanity), I will of course continue spreading the truth in any thread I so choose to participate.

That's my call Ken. Not yours.

I'm amazed that you're actually stomping your feet about this.

[Ken Burch]

20. Saying you were a pro-HRC person wasn't an attack, it was a reasonable surmise

Given your hostility to Obama, your false implications that ONLY Obama people threatened not to support the ticket if they're candidate wasn't chosen, and your insistence on trying to derail that thread from your very FIRST post on.

I was acting sincerely and for the good of all, and all you did was mock my thread and act like it was a trick and a joke.. It was understandable that you'd get a somewhat response from me when you did that. Why did you go into that thread at all if you didn't accept the validity of what I was doing?

You weren't speaking truth. You were speaking untruth, and you just did it above when you falsely characterized the premise of my thread and did so with the sole intention of maligning Obama supporters. The truth was and is that both candidate's supporters are equally to blame for the non-support threats, the truth is you KNOW that to be the case, and the truth is that all you did in my thread was mock my objectives.

Now you've brought that up in another thread for no good reason.

[JoFerret]

21. It is ALSO ironic

...that a so-called pro-unity thread starts with some nasty stuff about one of the two candidates.

It's akin to when people say things like: "Look - don't take this personally, but but you suck."

Look at the words - the adjectives and verbs and nouns - used to describe Clinton and her supporters and their behavior.

This is a joke "my friend". This is: "let's all get along by you changing your ways and falling in line with me" approach to unity.

I am all for the real thing, but this is way to accomplish it or further the cause.

It's disingenuous and hypocritical right off the bat.
Glasshouses and etc.

Cheers folks. Let's just DO the unity thing rather than call for it while slandering the very people we purport to want to unite with.

[Ken Burch]

22. What did you mean?

Whose posts were you talking about?

(edited to remove assumption that previous poster was talking about my OP in the other thread.)

[JoFerret]

23. My response was to cboy4 observation on "irony"

My response was to cboy4's observation on "irony" in order to note the additional irony implied in the OP's comments.

It was not a response specifically to your posts.

[Ken Burch]

24. Oh. Thanks for the clarification.

I'll edit my post to delete the false assumption.

[JoFerret]

26. No problem

I am all for the real thing, but this is way to accomplish it or further the cause.

It's disingenuous and hypocritical right off the bat.
Glasshouses and etc.

Cheers folks. Let's just DO the unity thing rather than call for it while slandering the very people we purport to want to unite with.

[Nicole]

3. I'll second that & rec.

I have to admit that I don't even come here for info anymore. I'm here for the comedy because this forum has turned into a joke.

May calmer heads prevail indeed.

[cali]

4. Yeah, it is like watching a really sloppy food fight or

rubber necking at a spectacular crash. I actually don't think it's possible to do much about it. It's obvious the mods are trying the best they can.

[cboy4]

5. Word

:thumbsup:

It has been verrrry ugly though.

Very.

[cali]

7. Yeah, but with not much happening on the ground

over the next few weeks, and the end of primary season on the horizon, I believe it could get worse, cboy. Kind of hard to imagine what worse will look like, but I sure won't be surprised to see it.

[cboy4]

9. I'll always be cool with you Cali....because even when we

fiercely disagree, I think we pretty much stand for the same decent things in life.

Hell, I fiercely disagree with family members....it's life.

[cali]

12. Same here, cboy

I know we're on the same side and that whoever our nominee is, we'll be fighting the repukes and McCain in the fall- and hopefully kicking their sorry asses to the curb.

[Ken Burch]

25. cali, check your pm's

n/t.

[Eurobabe]

8. I come here for amusement, my ignore list is not large enough yet

almost 200, I want more to IGNORE!! :rofl:

[RichardRay]

11. Keep Your Eyes on the Prize, Hold On. (K&R) n/t

[Political Heretic]

13. It is so critically important that this thing END and END SOON.

We are squandering what should have been a shoe-in election year for Democrats, and jeopardizing down-ticket races as well.

I don't have a very high opinion of the Democratic Party of modern times, even while being a member. But this circular firing squad, snatch-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory mentality going on right now is about all I can take.

[cali]

14. It's unlikely to end before June

but when it ends, we'll really need to put the pettiness behind us and focus on McCain and the repugs.

[SoFlaJet]

27. all I know is this Cali

I am a DEMOCRAT-I (and everyone in my family) will vote for the DEMOCRAT-regardless of who it is. Right now I'm an Obama supporter-I was for Gore, then Kerry then Edwards and now Barack. I WILL vote for Clinton if she wins this thing though

[H2O Man]

19. I agree.

I also think that attempts to take the nomination away from the man who has won it would be very harmful to the party, including in isolated neighborhoods such as DU. It is unlikely that such an attempt would work at this point, but it would run the risk of fracturing segments of the party.

[Guava Jelly]

18. .

:applause:

[undeterred]

29. The rest is going to put us to sleep.

Sweep for Obama, that's all.

[rasputin1952]

30. I sit back and wonder if anyof these "attacks" have had any

effect in changing anyone's mind.

No one likes their candidate being attacked, and I have never come across a situtaion where a mind has been been changed because an individual was attacked. In fact, if nothing else, the individual becomes stronger in their position.

In a nutshell, all some people have done is make their position untenable, simply because they refuse to accept that others might feel and think differently.

Kind of sad really, when people who say they have open minds close the doors at the first hint that someone might not think as they do.

[sniffa]

32. It's changed my mind

[rasputin1952]

33. The "attacks", or did you recalculate...

I can only hope you were not badgered into a position, but rather made your choice after due condsideration of elements presented that were accurate and factual.

[sniffa]

36. No, it's changed my mind about DU

Maybe not as a whole, but at the least, countless DUers who I used to think highly of. I still consider this my home, but I don't have the same love I used to have. I think this will swing back eventually, but at the moment, I'm just bitter and much less of a participant than I usually am (though, this weekend I've been on a tear in regards to posting). I'm much more likely to just sit back and recommend threads and/or ghost-kick them than participate. I've gone through periods before where I didn't feel like DU was my home, but they've never lasted as long as this.

I made my choice on Feb. 2, and made a whole thread about it. It was not well received.

However, since then, I have become even more hardened in being anti-HRC. Some of that is from some of her supporters, but mostly from the candidate's campaign.

[rasputin1952]

37. There are many who have seen people change over time...

Du is still DU, but w/a different element.

I have never been able to understand why people who normally have an open mind and a caring heart can suddenly become vicious and maintain being obstinate as opposed to the free passing of ideas.

The way things go I suppose...when emotions rule the day.

[sniffa]

40. In general, I agree with you

However, that is not what is going on here, and hasn't for some time.

Hence, that's what started my "Let it sink" thread, which I never expected to take off like it did, or get such a violent response to. I'm perfectly happy ignoring countless DUers for the time being, because the primary is brutal. Once this over, the ignore list can be mostly emptied.

DU is an ugly place now, and yes, I encourage both camps to just seclude themselves if they must. There's no reason to engage in the pissing contests that is now the norm. I still engage in them here and there, but considering my morbidly obese ignore list, it's not as much as it normally would be.

And, to be fair, I don't just have this feeling for HRC supporters - there are many Obama assholes I can't stand either right now.

And yes, I know some (many ignoreds) will cry something or other about echo chamber, but at least I didn't leave for another site to deal with it.

[ruggerson]

34. Then there are those of us who never used "Obamabot" or "cultist" to begin with

[writes3000]

35. On both sides. Perhaps, we should appreciate those that join us. n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

41. Yup

some people think they can behave badly for months, then when they think they're about to win, call a truce.

Sorry, but the people who've shown what little shits they are don't get to call time-out now.

[JeffR]

39. Well done, cali!

:toast:

[samsingh]

42. kick