Question about NBD?

[bhunt70]

Am I right to suppose that if Dean does not win the nomination, and the few NBD people here don't vote in the GE, then those same people really have no right to complain about the office of the president for the next 4 years? It would seem a bit hypocritical to bitch and moan about something that you had the chance to participate in but didn't.

You have the power, remember?

[Walt Starr]

1. Choosing not to choose is still a choice

and a statement.

Rights to free speech never go away.

[bhunt70]

2. yes it is free speech but is it hypocritical

to not take an action other than "no action" or in this case not voting?

"Choosing not to choose is still a choice", I agree. It's a choice to not try and make a difference to the status quo (getting bush out). Note that I didn't say it was a vote for bush, but it is an admission that you don't care if bush stays in.

[Walt Starr]

3. The choosing not to choose statement is

"Nobody on this ballot is worth me voting for."

It's a powerful statement and says a lot about the caliber of politician in America, after all, more than half of those who could vote make this statement.

It is a powerful action.

[Dookus]

5. yes...

and a three-year old who throws himself kicking and screaming to the floor because he didn't get a cookie also thinks he's taking a powerful action.

Unfortunately, it's unlikely to get him a cookie.

[bhunt70]

8. How can that claim be made

when you don't even know who is gonna be on the ballot?

Let me ask, with all due respect, what some of your major issues are? As a follow up, is there no candidate that tackles the majority of them sufficiently for you other than HD that may be on the ballot for the GE?

I just think that by not voting, the (in)action you take represents a "let the cards fall where they may" attitude. On one hand you know the cards fall into the fire, on the other hand they may not.

Bad analogy I know, but if you know bush is gonna take us to hell in a handbasket, wouldn't you want to try change even if you didn't totally agree with that change?

[LiberalBushFan]

15. it's not about the issues

it's about YOU HAVE THE POWER!
they think that if Dean's not the candidate then they have NO POWAH! anyway

[Tinoire]

4. I really don't understand all these loyalty non-loyalty posts

Every single poster here has the right to do what they want to with their vote. We are still officially classified as a Democratic Republic.

This entire ABB movement is pure fluff. Nothings going to change in America. Politicians need to get people interested in voting FOR them because people are really tired of the over-used tactic of telling us we HAVE to go to the polls to vote AGAINST something.

Now as far as NBD goes, there's really no such movement or even sentiment; it's just part campaign tactic but mostly a lie.

This is the last loyalty/non-loyalty oath thread I'm visiting (no offense to you) because we have better things to focus on besides this silliness. All this talk of political loyalty oaths and the ensuing accusations make me distinctly uncomfortable.

The NBx movement is a figment of certain people's imagination. Don't fall for it. The only people who are going to pick up their toys and leave are people who aren't comfortable in the Democratic Party to begin with.

[bearfartinthewoods]

6. being a nader voter didn't stop them from complaing

[poskonig]

7. Everybody will be NBD in a few weeks.

I'm not worried about it.

[Clark Can WIN]

16. OMGYGBFKM

In the words of Aerosmith...........<point thumb and pinkie skyward> "Dream On, dream on, dream on, dream on............. dream on, dream on <shrill scream> yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ayayayayayayayayaaaaaa............

[bhunt70]

9. my first post was less than fully civil.

After some thought I think there can be civil discussion on the merits of voting/not voting.

A story, in 2000 I voted green. When things fell the way they did, my wife was pissed at me, she voted Gore. My reasoning was that I thought we needed more than the big 2 getting money and I was hoping Nader would get that 5%, little did I know what we were looking at by having Bush in office.

Now of course I didn't know what the outcome would be, and of course in retrospect I think it would have been more suitable for me to vote Gore in 2000 (of course there were other factors in Gores loss, all well documented). Hindsight is 20/20 (or 50/50 as steve spurrier says).

Now we know that bush sucks, we also know that republicans are inherently good at sticking together and democrats not so good sometimes. I'm not asking for loyalty oaths and that shite, I'm not a king and nor is the democratic party. Everyone has the right to vote or not as they see fit...but I just wonder if people sometimes think about the ramifications of not voting in an instance like this.

[DemExpat]

11. Yours was a valid question IMO....

one that was discussed for some time here on DU after the 2000 selection pertaining to Nader....

If you have the time and inclination, you could do a search on the old DU forum archives for Nader - Green discussions to see how this was covered back then. :-)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=lobby

The NBD mentality arguments sound to me like an echo.....

DemEx

[dfong63]

10. no, you're wrong

by analogy, to say that someone who doesn't vote in the election has no right to complain because they "didn't participate", is like saying someone has a choice between joining the marines or the air force. and saying if they don't enlist, then they have no right to complain about the country going to war, because they "chose" not to "participate".

i'm not saying that's what the choices really are, but that's what they could turn out to be.

[drfemoe]

12. No one has to give up their

right to dissent or complain about anything.

I'm not ABB or NBD, and I don't believe in passing blanket judgments. Each case is unique. In my heavily populated R state, someone like Dean (and maybe one or two others) actually has a chance. I would want to vote. Another candidate, the one who claims to have second place, wouldn't stand a chance in my state. So should I be castigated because the Democratic Party makes a choice that is less than a "choice"? I don't think so.

[dansolo]

13. While I am not NBD

I will not vote for either Lieberman or Gephardt. I will gladly vote for Clark. Even though I disagreed with Kerry and Edwards on their IWR resolution, I will still vote for them, and if somehow Kucinich, Braun, or Sharpton got the nomination, I would vote for them as well.

[dd123]

14. I don't see why NBD is constantly criticized when odds are it

WBD (will be Dean).

It's the Clark supporters that should be asked about their commitment to vote for Dean should he win the nomination, along with the Kucinich, Edwards, Kerry, Gephardt, Lieberman, Sharpton and Moseley Braun supporters.

[Clark Can WIN]

17. Scuse me theya son..............

Yaw briches is a little big......... ya'll be carefull or ya'll be showin' your ass pretty soon.

[drfemoe]

18. From your profile?

Clark is the only one who can win decisively imho, providing a "safe" choice for dissafected R&I's.

Who exactly are "dissafected R&I's" and what does that mean?
Thanks for explaining this for me :+ .. It's hell not knowing everything.

[Cheswick2.0]

19. don't get all upset

There have been 1 or 2 people with that sig line. They are/were responding to the influx of Anyone But Dean bullshit that popped up in the last few weeks.
Now that Dean does better against Bush than Clark, I think we can resonably expect that ugly little movement (ABD) to die of disgrace.

[maddezmom]

20. doesn't bother me at all

aren't we all NB-X candidate during the primaries. After the nomination, I'm for whomever is the nominee.