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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:19 PM
Original message
Bob Barr & the Upcoming Democratic Victory
The announcement that former US Attorney and Representative Bob Barr is seeking the Libertarian Party’s nomination to run for President may be good for the democratic party. It goes beyond the possibility that Barr has the potential to take votes away from republican nominee John McCain, much in the manner of Henry Ross Perot in 1992. He might also focus attention on the issues relating to the federal government’s destruction of Constitutional protections.

It is important that democrats remain fully aware of how Bob Barr came to place such value as he does upon the Bill of Rights. He was a conservative, with rigid right-wing "values" that he was intent on imposing on other people. He was an advocate of harsh drug laws. He opposed abortion. He crusaded against same-sex marriage. And he was one of the leaders of the movement to impeach Bill Clinton.

Then in 1999, Hustler publisher Larry Flynt offered cash to anyone who could provide evidence of republican hypocrisy involving those who were attacking President Clinton. It turned out that in 1982, he made an exception to his moral stance against abortion, when his then-wife became pregnant. And in 1985, he refused to answer questions in his divorce hearing regarding his affair with his current third wife.

This was the genesis of Bob Barr’s rebirth as an advocate of privacy. I am not questioning his sincerity, because people do change. And he has raised a number of very important points about the federal government’s attacks on the Bill of Rights.

Before getting to those, I would add that while Bob Barr is now open-minded enough to engage in meaningful discussions with democrats and other progressives, he continues to break bread with Robert Bork, Tom DeLay, Trent Lott, and Oliver North. So, while Bob Barr today is an improvement on the Bob Barr who wanted a federal law to prevent people from practicing religions he opposed while they are in the US military, he still is not a progressive or liberal.

Where he offers us some advantages is in the ability to split republican-conservative support away from McCain, and by raising Constitutional issues in the fall election. He may be of particular value if there are debates involving McCain and Obama. He is opposed to the Patriot Act, and has spoken out against such things as the FBI questioning people that have been identified as "potential anti-war protesters."

He has also correctly identified the need to restore the Great Writ of habeas corpus, an Amendmend 1 protection that was trampled by both Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush.

Barr is a talented debater, and his familiarity with Constitutional law would be evident against John McCain. I do not think there is any chance of him taking support away from our nominee. He would also be likely to raise issues that Barack Obama will be able to answer forcefully, regarding the need to respect the US Constitution, especially that Bill of Rights.

The more that the Constitution/Bill of Rights are brought up in the period before now and the November election, the more likely voters are going to see that it is being threatened by the federal government. Presidents from both parties have damaged it. Politicians in both parties have failed in their duty to protect it. I think it is important that a conservative voice like Barr brings this to the attention of republicans, so that they are less likely to buy into the Big Brother position that advocating for the Constitution is a sign of weakness.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. The more, the merrier! I'll bet McCain didn't see this one coming.
Their debate(s) should prove interesting. And I agree; the more attention paid to the rights we've lost that people aren't aware of, the better.

I have a right-leaning friend who sees nothing wrong with the government listening in to phone conversations; her thinking is, if she has nothing to hide, what's the problem. If she actually heard people debating this issue, she might change her tune. One can hope.

Thanks, as always, H20 Man!
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Its one more evidence of the GOP Implosion taking place ever since the Iraqi thing went sour
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 05:40 PM by opihimoimoi
Other aspects hurting the GOP are:

Bushies war

and his antics of choosing cronies

The Economy

The National Debt

The Environment

The Fear Level

Lack of Successes in the Decision Making Dept....Mostly Losses followed by larger losses

Barrs return to center stage is a sign of a framented GOP....The Masters must be going bonkers with Hissyfits....
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Bob Barr could potentially do very well here.
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 05:46 PM by Blue_In_AK
McCain is unpopular among Alaska Republicans, and Barr's stands for privacy and the Constitution could make him very attractive to folks who traditionally vote Republican but are very fed up with the Iraq occupation, government snooping and so on. Most Alaskans, Democrats and Republicans alike, prefer to be left alone (that's why most of us are up here, after all), so I can foresee Barr making some inroads here, particularly among disaffected Republicans and right-leaning Independents.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Alaska may be
the best example of how much of a split Barr could cause. Many republicans and conservatives aren't fond of McCain.
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TroubleMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hopefully Ron Paul will be his VP candidate.

That would take over a 1/4 of McCain's vote easily.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Ron Paul got more votes in Alaska than McCain did
in their primary here. I think you're right -- a Barr/Paul ticket would really cut into McCain's support.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Hey, I'll take a victory whichever way it comes.
ANYTHING that siphons gas out of the tank of the enemy's ("Straight Talk Express") bus is more than okay by me.

Hey, I can be just as machiavellian as the next guy.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I believe that
Ron Paul is endorsing him. I wonder if Paul would consider the VP position? Considering his ability to make money, he could make it very uncomfortable for McCain.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. K & R
:thumbsup:
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thats good news
I hope he gets the Lib nomination. We have already seen how popular McCain is with the rage right. The only thing better for us would be a second RW running with impeccable "nut job Christian" credentials. Or maybe Guliani as McCains VP.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. Things could get very interesting.
Bob Barr on the Iraq War:

Former Congressman Bob Barr, now a member of the Libertarian National Committee, issued this statement after the LNC passed a resolution for withdrawal from Iraq:

“Given the lack of action by both the Democrats and Republicans to find a swift and safe conclusion to American adventurism in Iraq, it is imperative that the Libertarian Party stand resolute in its calls for ending the war without undue delay. The Libertarian Party refuses to back down on this paramount issue, even if we are the only Party standing up for the safety of our troops, the respect of our nation, and the stability of our economy. If President Bush wants this war, then he needs to go through Congress, as the Constitution requires the president to do. The lives of our troops and the wealth of our nation need protection from the adventurous whims of single individuals. Our current course of foreign policy jeopardizes the future of this great nation, and as long as the Libertarian Party has a voice, we will continue to fight to bring our men and women in uniform home as quickly and as safely as possible.”

http://www.libertariansforpaul.com/2008/02/18/former-congressman-bob-barr-on-iraq-war/
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. would they
let him take part in the debates?

Do we already know how many debates there will be?

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. If he runs,
I think he will be likely to be included in some debates.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. Yes, when I heard Barr was going to run,
I knew of Barr's constitutional outlook and know he can really open up conversation on the ignored problems of its shredding. It will help in more ways than just a republican split. It can help open up an awakening. An awakening the country desperately needs.
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galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I really wanted ron paul to run...that would have done Mccain serious damage
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I think Barr
poses more of a threat in some ways. He comes across as a little more mainstream among the republicans. I know that Ron Paul did really well in some areas, and I think that shows the potential for a serious fracture in their party.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I think he
is a more capable debater than McCain. Actually, he is more talented than any of the republican candidates from the '08 primary. I have an image of him frustrating McCain, putting him on the hot seat, and McCain's temper coming into play. Does that sound possible?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Quite possible.
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galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. In fairness though, Paul running might have done Obama more damage
A lot of liberals actually liked paul. Mainly for his foreign policy. He also appealed to the youtube crowd as much as Obama.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I agree.
Paul had the potential to pull votes from Obama, something that Barr is less likely to do. And Barr has more potential to damage McCain in the general election than Paul did. I'm far happier that Barr could be their nominee, than if it were Paul.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Yes.
I've heard a lot of Paul people say they were going to vote for Obama in the general election. Unfortunately, Barr may pull most of them now but Barr will also pull republicans in greater numbers and the constitutional problems may finally start to resonate in that party on a larger scale than Paul has accomplish or if Paul ran had independent run.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
22. I would think also
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 06:57 PM by PATRICK
that this is an opportune attempt to wrest the GOP and especially the shambles of the Conservative coalition away from the Bush dynasty and debilitating cronyism- which is behind the destruction of the Constitution as well. With Hillary and the Bloomberg scenario out there was a gap to "do unto others" for Conservatives gnashing their teeth(since Reagan "selected" Bush I). The opportunity created by a Dem tidal wave is to wade into a GOP bloodbath. The end result might be to forge a surival duality once more with a credible "purified" Conservative movement clinging to Dems like Third Way Dems did to the GOP to woo back the "middle". With even less success, I sincerely hope.

We might even get cooperation in getting rid of obnoxious high placed Bush cronies, in criminal investigations and maybe even holding the Bushes- as the most deserving of scapegoats- to account for the "betrayal" of Conservatism. That former assets and allies of Bush are connected to Barr and considering the fates of Gingrich and Hagel, I am sure this is no easy or done deal. Nor does this include the disagreeable union with apocalyptic Nazi religionists, sour and left out in the cold still. Nobody has faced their "President" head on, thus the dynasty expects and plans for eternal privilege and subservience- if only to keep away truth and consequences. The GOP resembles the Laocoon statue with serpent coils of its own enthusiastic making.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
23. If Barr does go ahead, then the RW media pundits
like Buchanan, will once again have a decision to make. A number of the wingnut talk hosts ARE Libertarian (particularly the 2nd and 3rd tier syndicated ones along with a number who are on local talk in major markets), and you would think they would throw their hat behind someone like a Ron Paul and a Bob Barr - particularly if they believe that McCain is "too liberal" for them. Rollye James is an example. And Buchanan has been an isolationalist for years. So will he support such a run or would he go with the Party?

This will get interesting... particularly for those of us who monitor RW talk radio.
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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. Christmas? In April?
Obama HAS been a very good this year!
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. I'm more than happy to see the GOP subjected to vote poaching for a change...
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
27. Don't get your hopes up.
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 07:43 PM by bamalib
The Libertarians run someone every election but they never have any money and have very little impact on the results. Barr will not be the debates nor will Nader. The Debate Commission is made up of ex-DNC and ex-RNC heads and they will set the threshold high enough than neither Nader or Barr will be "eligible" for the debates. Barr will be noticed by some political discussion boards on the internet but the media will ignore him. This is not Perot of 1992 with his billions.
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
28. Barr`s entrance from the Ron Paul wing of the Republican Party
could spell T-R-O-U-B-L-E for Bush-enabler McCain. Barr takes fierce positions when it comes to Constitutional law, and he will help highlight the morally bankrupt foundation of neo-con foreign policy.
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
29. barr is slime - but his running is good for us
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Right.
He could prove to be a real problem for McCain. As a democrat, I would welcome that.
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. i'm going to keep watching the news on this one
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
30. Yahooo!
:woohoo:
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
31. Oh God, please let Bob Barr run for President.
The fundies I know LOVE him, personal hypocrisy and all. They love his principled defense of the Constitution and his strict conservatism. IMO, Barr takes away 20% of the Republican conservatives from McCain. Dobson will announce his support for Barr during every commercial break of Focus on the Family. As you indicated, Barr is a master debater. He's a very intelligent man. As he has gotten older, he's also gotten more personable. I've listened to him on Thom Hartmann's show a couple of times and the man knows Constitutional law in and out and has the Huckabee-like "I really hate 95% of what you stand for, but you're so polite and respectful that I can't truly dislike you the way I want to" factor going for him.

This really has the potential to wrap the Presidency up for us.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. It would be a good thing.
I hope he runs.
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liberaldem4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
33. K&R!!
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
35. K&R. (nt)
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
37. The Enemy Of My Enemy Is My Friend
Sort of, but if he helps restore the Great Writ I would shake his hand
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