I've decided to give Hillary a chance

[quakerboy]

I like Obama. I have issues with Hillary. But I haven't voted yet, and I do want to be as fair as I can manage. Ive changed my mind on politicians before, and I'm sure I will again. Over the next week or so, I plan to ask a few questions to help clarify my own mind.

Here is my first question. Aimed to Hillary supporters, not so much looking for the snark from fellow Obamites. What is there in Hillary's record, statements, or any other facet of the Hillary experience that would lead me to believe that if Hillary becomes president, BushCo will be fully investigated and meet with the just consequences of their actions?

[stellanoir]

1. Nothing

she's of the same ilk.

[Saturday]

2. I wish I could say there was something to give us all hope but I don't think

either of our candidates will investigate Bushco.

[exsoccermom]

4. A productive investigation or a witch hunt?

If you want a witch hunt, Hillary is not your candidate.

[quakerboy]

7. What has she done

to make me think that her administration would bring forth a productive investigation?

[Saturday]

12. She hasn't done anything but neither has Obama. nt

[DJ13]

3. Bill deliberately ignored the serious potential crimes of Bush sr. when he took office

I wouldnt expect much from Hillary.

Especially since those two families are closer than our MSM lets on.

[grasswire]

5. I believe she's slightly more likely than Obama to do so.

Obama's message of "hope" and "bipartisanship" and "future" closes all doors to accountability of our home-grown criminals in Washington. Hillary -- herself the target of the BFEE and VRWC -- knows where all the bodies are.

[quakerboy]

6. But what specificly

has she said or done to make you(or me) think that that is so?

[grasswire]

13. It's more what Obama has said....

..to make me see that he has no interest in the crimes of the past.

[quakerboy]

16. Can you be more specific, please?

What has he said, exactly, that said that?

[grasswire]

29. "hope" "change" "future"

Get up to speed, sonny.

[quakerboy]

33. Thats not terribly helpfully in the context.

Those three words, in my lexicon, would point exactly the opposite direction from what you have indicated.

"Future" is something that will exist or happen in time to come. The future is rooted in the past. The course of the future is often dependant on precedent, and Barack as a lawyer would presumably be very aware of that.

"Hope" does not negate consequences. Hope is to look forward to with desire and reasonable confidence. Hoping for the betterment of the country would, I think to most of us, include hoping that justice and the law are not negated for the powerful.

"Change", particularly, would not indicate "keep it the same and protect all the same stuff". Change is to transform or convert. How one would assume status quo from this is beyond me.

Your interpretation of 3 words used is very questionable, given that it is arguably contrary to the very words you are interpreting. I trust it no more than I would expect you to trust my take of something Hillary said (eg Experience). I would have expected something more substantial to base such a heavy judgment on.

[JayFredMuggs]

8. Closes doors to accountability? Where did you get THAT idea.........?

Certainly NOT from Obama, Clinton, now, maybe! She seems to think her Bosnia lie should be treated as a Tonight Show joke.

[bigwillq]

9. I agree (partially).

I am still not sure how much Clinton will do without it seeming like she's going after the Bush and the pukes for them going after her husband but I do think she could do more than Obama. I just don't see Obama doing much. It goes against his nicer than nice image.

[quakerboy]

15. I am seeking information

So far there is generally based opinion here. I don't know that Obama will do as much as I like. But what I have seen, in the record, is how Bill treated those who came before. I have not heard anything from Hillary on this topic, so I am left to make my own opinion. If there is information out there, I would be very interested to see it. I can ponder opinions myself, and mine are not so generous to Hillary, based on my perceptions of the race so far. If they are to change, I need to have them informed with reasons to revise my assessments.

Basically, I want to see the substance.

[bellasgrams]

17. Why would you base such an important decision on that particular

topic? What about the economy, the war, education, the FDA, and on and on there are so many things to worry about, and I trust Hillary's intellect and experience and honesty far more than BO's.

[quakerboy]

21. A:

Read my OP. I plan to ask several questions. One at a time, so they don't get muddled. That one first, because it is the one that I have seen little or no conversation about.

B: Because all of these things are intertwined. If we got a president who can deliver on all of the topics you mention, it will mean NOTHING if the BushCo crowd knows they can reinvent and come back in 8 or 16 years and do it again with impunity. Whatever we accomplish will just be undone, just as 8 years of Bush has more than reversed any benefits of the 8 years of Clinton.

[Zhade]

20. "how Bill treated those who came before" - read "American Dynasty".

Bill Clinton helped cover-up for Poppy B*s* once he took office.

[ekwhite]

36. It is possible that Obama will appoint a good AG

And he will look into crimes committed by the Bush Administration. It most certainly can't come from the oval office with either candidate. Our best bet is a congressional investigation that gets referred to the AG.

Edit: I should have mentioned that Clinton is equally likely to appoint a good AG. But I agree with you that the Clinton White House could not initiate an investigation of Bush without it looking like revenge.

[bigwillq]

38. Let's hope so (nt)

[AX10]

10. I agree.

The moment Obama goes after the Bush family, the entire center of his campaign will collapse.

[TexanDem]

32. Hold Bush accountable? Nope, neither BO or HC will do that.

[quakerboy]

34. No chance of it?

[TexanDem]

40. I'm no soothsayer, but I'd say odds were a million to 1

But if it were going to happen it would more likely be BO than H. Remember, Bill and George Sr are very good friends.

[madmom]

11. If I were her, I'd go after them just to get even.

[easy_b94]

14. It is too late for her...Go with Obama

[Booster]

18. Has any candidate past or present addressed this question?

[Zhade]

19. No snark, but - why are you giving a proven liar (Tuzla, NAFTA) a chance at all?

NT!

[quakerboy]

22. Because

I want to.

And because I have room in my understandings for new information. Life is an ever evolving thing, and there is always the possibility that there are important things that I do not know yet. I want to learn. Maybe there is more to Clinton than I have yet seen. I doubt it, but I have room for the possibility.

[Zhade]

25. You WANT to support a proven liar?

Wow.

[quakerboy]

28. I want to keep open the posibility that

a politician might lie and not be the devil. I've lied in my life. I've forgiven myself, as have others. I support Obama. But I still want to know more.

[rodeodance]

31. Obama lied about Rezco-Wright.....

[angie_love]

39. LOL. Didn't Hillary lie about Bosnia? Get a grip.

[cornermouse]

23. I don't know.

My assessment of Hillary is that she's highly intelligent, strong, resilient, and determined. Will she be able to think outside the box or will the constant attacks of the GOP, media, and some parts of the democratic party force her to be more conservative than she would be normally? I don't know.

To be honest, I'm not sure Bush will be on either her or Obama's list of things to do simply because I think the nation has too many other problems that could become disasters very quickly which will take all their time and attention.

My assessment of Obama is that he is highly intelligent, imaginative, and more conservative than a lot of posters on this board think. Whether he's strong, resilient, and determined has yet to be proven. He hasn't been under anything resembling the type of attacks that Hillary has been. In other words, he hasn't been tested. I thought Kerry was determined till he gave up and stepped back from fighting for and claiming the presidency.

I do not think that McCain is capable of facing the challenges we will be facing over at least the next 4 years. He's too old and his problem solving skills are probably too rigid and deteriorated.

[quakerboy]

24. I think that

we can walk and chew gum at the same time. This is the federal Govt, not a small company. There are a lot of employee's with a lot of different tasks. Justice and upholding the law is large among them, and my impression is that it is one that the president can contribute to best by saying "go" and staying out of the way. Maybe helping a bit with making sure the records are available for the investigations.

Actually, thinking back on the Hounding of Clinton, a big to-do might be exactly what the economy needs. Accountability, entertainment, employment for many, and future betterment all rolled up into one big package.

[cornermouse]

26. Bush has certainly stayed out of the way.

Everything we've seen says that he (or Cheney) says "go" and stays out of the way; Iraq, Katrina, no-bid contracts, the sinking dollar, inflation that has been inflating for much longer than they've been willing to acknowledge... Do we really want more of the same? I'm about ready to have President who actually works.

Another reason I don't think either one will go after Bush is the apparent fact that the party elite/hierarchy has already vetoed any action against Bush. Why, I don't know. He has screwed this country up so badly that he is the first president that I would like to see on trial.

[quakerboy]

30. Everything I have seen

says they are not staying out of the way. See Roves prospective involvement in the Seigleman(sp) case. Or, who has made money off of no bid? These things don't just happen, they get directed. and if they were out of the way, the proper officials would hopefully be investigating how all that went down. But they are not, and i doubt its because bush said to the AG "do justice". What they have done, in regards to the law and law enforcement is not "staying out of the way".

I am not saying a president should stay out of policy. But I think that in the case of the Justice Department, they should pick people do do the work, and then let them do it. The president does not need to oversee every investigation, merely provide the emphasis and make the way clear of unnecessary obstacles (eg classified redacted EVERYTHING).

[NashVegas]

27. I Don't Believe Either Candidate Will Be Helpful There

[ekwhite]

35. I doubt either of them will investigate BushCo

The investigation will have to come from Congress, IMHO, because it would look like partisan payback otherwise.

[quakerboy]

37. Independant prosecutor

or is that merely a function of the legislative branch?

I have a further question, if anyone knows. How does the whole classification/declassification thing work? When we get a Dem in the oval office, can they start declassifying all the stuff that we really should have been seeing all along? Where does that power come from, and can an expresident do anything to seal their records that a current president cannot undo?