It's nonsense to blame Obama for the antipathy toward HIllary

[cali]

Look, face the facts, Hillary is polarizing all by herself. Long before Obama was any credible threat at all, Hillary evoked strong dislike. Gad, all you have to do is remember the anti- Hillary posts here at DU from 8 months ago.

And I want to say one thing about people posting crap about how Obama (or hillary) is an infection or blight or cancer on the body politic: You all sound like a bunch of jr nazis. Cut it the fuck out.

[hedgehog]

1. That's true - I disliked Hillary WAY before I liked Obama!

[MercutioATC]

2. Me, too!

I cringed when I heard she was running, because I figured she'd be a shoo-in for the nomination and I knew she couldn't win the general.

Good to see she won't be the Dem in the general.

[dkf]

6. Ditto.

[HockeyMom]

5. same

I was a resident of her state, so I knew her "up close and personal". I was an undecided voter. I only knew I wouldn't be voting for Hillary. I came to Obama through my daughter and future son-in-law.

[Liberal Veteran]

I didn't. I felt she wasn't our best choice for a candidate, but not because of her.

I didn't want her as the candidate because I felt she was far too polarizing. At the time, I mentioned a friend of mine who said she always voted democratic, but if Hillary got the nomination, she would change her party affiliation to republican.

And it wasn't the first time I heard someone say something like that.

We already know the right wing hates Hillary like poison, but she isn't exactly universally loved by the fence-sitters or Democrats.

That was my sole reason for not wanting her to be the candidate at the time.

Now I don't want her because I no longer trust her at all. I'd vote for her if I had to, but if she can turn a coronation into into a struggle to stay alive in the primaries, she is hardly fit to run this country.

[Hepburn]

11. Ditto!

In fact, I never liked Hillary Clinton.

[TahitiNut]

31. Hell, I STILL dislike Hillary without particularly liking Obama.

I was a fan when she ran for Senate the first time. I even stayed a fan when she vote for IWR - albeit concerned. After a Senate career enabling so many neocon cooorporatist policies, including bankruptcy reform, I just didn't like her enough. But the way she's run her campaign REALLY makes me dislike her. That she can push the bald-faced lie about Bosnia EVEN AFTER she ignores Sinbad's correction and dismisses him condescendingly as "just a comedian" is stunning. The melodrama of her Memphis speech nauseated me. Hell, she can't even fake sincerity anymore

[lisa58]

3. agreed...

...the idea that Obama somehow has made Hillary anything less than Hillary is ridiculous. Hillary is Hillary and Obama is Obama. If Hillary is pissed that Obama is running for President now...ask George Herbert Walker Bush how he felt that Bill Clinton was running "four years early".

I'll vote for whoever is nominated in the democratic party - but blaming either candidate for being a candidate - grow up, please.

[Beregond2]

12. I see

nothing wrong with blaming Hillary for being a candidate. If she had any grasp of reality at all, she would know she is unelectable, and would not be putting the party through all this mess. Was she deaf and blind for the past fifteen years, as the right-wing turned her into the most hated woman in the country? She certainly doesn't deserve such antipathy, but to deny it exists and launch a fantasy campaign at such a critical juncture is a triumph of ego over reason.

[lisa58]

20. read it again

[writes3000]

4. BUT can we blame Obama supporters for increasing the antipathy toward Hillary?

That, to me, is the real question for DU.

PS - the same can be asked of the other side.

[hedgehog]

7. What, you mean can we blame Hillary supporters for increasing the antipathy

toward Hillary, too? I'd have to answer yes to that question.

[lisa58]

8. no....

...Hillary is who she is - blaming Obama supporters for supporting Obama is not negative Hillary - it's pro-Obama.

[writes3000]

17. Trashing Hillary, first and foremost

may be more than being pro-Obama, no?

[lisa58]

23. no...

...if you are a Hillary supporter you may see it that way. Maybe you cannot see a reason to support Obama - but people don't support Obama to insult Hillary.

[writes3000]

25. I'm not saying all Obama supporters trash Hillary but...

I do think there are many here who now enjoy the sport of trashing team Clinton.

And when confronted about how doing that helps Obama get elected, they shrug.

[lisa58]

32. I'm not shrugging...

...and it's not my style to trash that which I do not think is trash.

I will say it again, I will vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination, but thinking she has to get the nomination because she is Hillary is just ridiculous. She is not my first choice and is indeed my last choice because McCain is not a choice.

I really, really like Obama (and I did not start out that way). He has shown an intellect and a grace that I have never seen before. I'm allowed to be inspired by someone that really wants to include everyone.

[Skidmore]

9. You can blame Hillary herself for running an ugly campaign

and saying lots of stupid stuff. YOu can also blame Bill while you are at it and her Republican operative consultant. Hillary is responsible for her own campaign.

[cali]

10. I don't think so

8 to 9 months ago you could find numerous anti-Hillary threads here. Go do a search and you'll see that. There has long been strong ant-hillary sentiment here.

[writes3000]

24. LOL, so for 8 to 9 months, there's been anti-Hillary sentiment at a Dem party forum

And you don't think a case could be made that this place has furthered some of the anti-Hillary vibe at large?

You think we have no culpability?

[cali]

26. huh? My sole point is that Hillary was disliked here far before Obama

became a factor in this race.

[Mass]

13. May be, but some of Hillary supporters do not help. I did not dislike the woman so much before I

read comments from a handful of her supporters. They talk about cult, but some of them are past that. They just seem like lynching mobs sometimes.

[writes3000]

21. Exactly. So do we just keep it up indefinitely? Because Clinton supporters say the same thing

about Obama supporters. That they've made the Clinton supporters hate Obama.

Maybe we're more alike than we admit?

[Liberal Veteran]

15. That's kind of demeaning in a way. Isn't it possible that people can think for themselves.

And that we aren't a bunch of sheeple to be led to disliking someone by a bunch of anonymous posters on DU?

[writes3000]

29. Great question. I do think we are all suspectible...

To group think at times.

I know that when I see a "Look at what Hillary has done NOW!!!" post, my blood pressure rises.

I know that right now, I'm more likely NOT to give the Clintons the benefit of the doubt.

And yeah, I'd say that I'd feel differently if I didn't come here.

I'd like to think I can think for myself. But I believe we do feed off of each other.

[Hepburn]

16. IMO, Hillary did that to herself with the sucky campaign she has run.

[Liberal Veteran]

18. Or not run, as the case was. She seemed to take the nomination for granted.

And that's where she really started to lose it.

[NJSecularist]

14. Hillary supporters blame everybody but HRC for her downfalls.

And their latest attempts to paint Obama as an infection on the body is pathetic. But what else would you expect from them?

[Yael]

19. I was a bit taken aback by it when I joined

I started this in August to ask people. Funny reading the responses today.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3456606

[patrice]

22. It looks to this particular Edwards-ian Obama supporter as though

quite a few of you all, on both sides, are responsible for creating most if not all of the antipathy that you feel toward one another.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

[Writer]

30. Absolutely positively in agreement.

Hence my sig.

[patrice]

33. Dishonesty with others begins with dishonesty with one's self. The Golden Rule is so perfect and

easy to follow, it seems obvious to me that failure, ignorant or otherwise, must be due to motive.

[cornermouse]

27. Now what?

You've all run around and patted each other on the back on this post, so now what do you do for an encore?

[cali]

28. well that made no sense whatsoever.

[splat]

34. "Clean for Gene" was an awareness that a candidate is judged by who supports him/her

This was a basic understanding back then. People wanted to convince people unlike them, not shout them down.