Democrats and Gun Control

[DaveSZ]

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4144.shtml

Democrats and Gun Control
By LOWELL BRANHAM
Feb 29, 2004, 07:53



Sometimes people you think are your best friends may actually be your worst enemies, but it can take a while to figure that out.
Some folks, in fact, require an amazing length of time to arrive at what ought to be a fairly obvious conclusion, but few can match the Democratic Party for being slow on the uptake.

The Democrats' bosom buddies in the media establishment have been leading them down the primrose path to defeat for about 30 years now, which is how long media liberals have been proclaiming that the American public strongly favors gun control.

The Democrats spent three decades swallowing that line of propaganda and suffering the consequences. They didn't wake up and realize they were being duped until the last presidential election.

-more on how gun control cost Gore Tennesse, Arkansas, and W. Virginia

[NMDemDist2]

1. is this some RW rag?? eom

[Somawas]

4. Hardly a right wing rag!

Go read the whole article. It was an interesting take on voting in TN.

It's taken a while, but I have finally come to the point of view that gun ownership-for that matter, ownership of fully armed nuclear Los Angeles Class submarines-is an important civil liberties issue. One that Democrats have not given sufficient respect to for far too long. The Second amendment was written by a group of guys who had just fought and won a revolution against the greatest power on earth. They felt that governments should be kept small, leave people alone mostly, and should be very, very afraid.

[billbuckhead]

2. Weak domestic gun laws kill multiples more Americans than Al Queda

No other advanced nation has this weak gun regulation and no other advanced nation has the murder rate that the USA has. This on top of having more of it's citizens in jail than any other advanced nation.

No poll has shown a majority of even gun owners are for un regulated sales of military style "assualt" rifles, let alone the Democratic rank and file.

[Padraig18]

3. But has anyone shown that more gun control = a lower crime rate?

I'd be interested in seeing the study (-ies), and looking at the methodology, if they have...

[Township75]

5. The Center for Disease Control and Prevention recently did a study that

that failed to show a relationship between gun control and reduced crime.

It is here:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm

I would love to see Dems drop their attacks on gun rights. I would love to see them close the gun show loophole, and provide more money for to enforce existing laws.

Attacking the rights of law abiding citizens is futile as shown by the CDC report.

[Padraig18]

6. Yep.

I'm a Democrat, a law-abiding citizen and a gun owner. More laws will do nothing to make me or anyone else any safer; the steps you suggest will.

[mot78]

10. I agree, and it would be like another war on drugs

People are still going to break whatever new guns laws are enforced, and it would just as futile as arresting people for marijuana possession.

[Catholic Sensation]

18. okay how about the fact the clinton years had the stricted gun laws

and crime went down every year.

[Scoopie]

20. Crime went down under Clinton

because more people were employed and the classes weren't as separated - or perceived to be as separated - as they are now.
Gun control had very little to do with it.
I could kill someone just as easily with a shotgun (not banned) as with a semi-automatic (banned).
(BTW, I'm in Tennessee. Interesting note: hunters and sportsmen in Tennessee are the newest group rallying to oust Bush. Why? Because they are out in the forests and see, first-hand, what Bush's poor environmental record is doing to the land.)

[FeebMaster]

21. Semi-automatic weapons aren't banned. (nt)

[TexasMexican]

22. unless they have a bayonet lug, flash supressor, and collapsable stock...

and were made after the a certain year when the AWB went into effect.

[Scoopie]

24. Thanks

Besides, I was making more of a point about how ANY gun can kill someone.
I don't own a gun (small child in the house), but I'm not against people owning guns.
I was more making the point that crime goes down when people have good jobs - guns will always be in our society, but the motivation has to be there for them to be used on someone in a criminal fashion.

[FeebMaster]

25. and then they're only banned from manufacture

for civilians at least. The government exempted their guys. Civilians can still buy the old ones, of course.

[PVnRT]

27. Is that a direct correlation?

Most reports I have seen (from legitimate staisticians) cannot find any correlation regarding that.

[JayS]

32. It is a direct correlation...

...if you want it to be; otherwise, it is totally bogus. :)

[el_gato]

7. Gun Control has cost us dearly

Bush would definitely not be in office if it wasn't for the
loser issue of gun control.

[JayS]

8. Has anyone forwarded this to the Kerry Campaign? I don't...

...think they will be interested though.

The Democrats spent three decades swallowing that line of propaganda and suffering the consequences. They didn't wake up and realize they were being duped until the last presidential election.

The Party realized that it is being duped? I have not seen much support for this statement.


If he'd ever done much real farm work, he'd have known it's a "double-bit" ax, not "double-bladed."

hehehe I remember this. I pictured him swinging something that looked like a double-bladed razor.


Despite their past votes for gun control measures, John Kerry and John Edwards are now casting themselves as true believers in the Second Amendment.


Say what? Is there supposed to be a sarcasm tag with that statement?

The Senate is nearing a critical vote on a measure called The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which will ban frivolous lawsuits against the gun industry.

Kerry made a rare appearance at work to kill this bill. Talk about letting ideology trump the truth.


But after being repeatedly burned, they've finally seen the light. Now -- glory hallelujah -- they've become staunch supporters of the Second Amendment.

Seen the light? Are Feinstein, Kennedy, Schumer, and Kerry all blind? They must have missed those photons.


But just let the Democrats regain control of the White House and the Congress and you'll quickly see how long their new-found convictions last.

If I have a nickle for every time I have heard this...

A few staged photos of Kerry with a shotgun is not going to convince gun owners that Kerry is their buddy. The 100% support he gets from the Brady Bunch is not exactly a help either, nor is his use of their information on his webpage. Going on tirades against the NRA does not help him win over their members nor does referring to an "assault weapon" as a "machine gun like those used in Afghanistan" show much military knowledge. Not knowing that the Assault Weapons Ban only outlawed some cosmetic features, that have since been removed and the guns are in the stores again, show much of a grasp of this red herring gun law. Kind of makes you wonder.

Take that for what it is worth...but I don't think Kerry knows just how bad he looks to some people on the gun issue. A lot of these people live in states that he would like to win. If he keeps on the same path he is likely to get Gored.


And what in the world was all this?

Q: Do you find it necessary to kill animals for photo-ops?
A: I don't think the Democratic Party should be the candidacy of the NRA. And when I was fighting to ban assault weapons in 1992 and 1993, Dean was appealing to the NRA for their endorsement, and he got it. I believe it's important for us to have somebody who is going to stand up for gun safety in America and make certain that we make our streets safe, our children safe, and not allow people to get assault weapons in America.

Source: CNN "Rock The Vote" Democratic Debate Nov 5, 2003

[dae]

13. JayS, I really have no fear of the Dems sweeping the WH and both

Houses in Congress, in fact I look forward to it.
While the majority of Americans may support some form of gun control it is a limited type and I know most southern Democratic politicians would run from anything stronger than the AWB and maybe closing the gun show loop hole.
I just don't let the rest get me bent out of shape.
Just my .02

dae

[TexasSissy]

9. Depends on the TYPE of gun control.

There have been different gun control initiatives. Those that install a waiting period to buy a guy (aimed at the gun shows), those that prohibit certain persons from buying any type of firearm (the types of people have changed), etc.

I think ALL Americans are for some types of gun control and against some types of gun control. The devil is in the detail.

[NMDemDist2]

14. Yup and a lot depends if you live in an urban or rural area

If I lived in the country I'd probably own a gun for "critters" but I sure wouldn't need an AK47

Since I live in urban Phoenix, I don't carry or own a gun. I did carry a gun when I worked late at night and had to do cash drops for the bar I worked for in another western city, but it was a "ladylike" Baretta 380 that fit well in my (oversized) purse ROFL

[Redneck Socialist]

11. Some of us have been saying this for years.

Now some Democrats seem to be changing their rhetoric to appear less stridently anti-gun, but many gun owners are going to wait and see if that rhetorical change is backed up by a change in voting patterns.

For too long the Democratic party has ceded a large voting block (a block that by and large should be voting Dem) to the pubs. I for one would be very excited to see the Democratic Party actively courting the gun vote. Pulling those votes into the blue column would be a recipe for electoral success.

[mot78]

12. The gun issue is just one of many problems for us

"God, guns, and gays" keeps us away from a lot of people who agree with us on economic and forgien policy issues.

[Padraig18]

15. BINGO!

This party has gone out of its way to alienate whole segments of the population who SHOULD support us but don't, a HUGE percentage of them driven away because of the evangelical ZEAL with which our party has actively supported attacks on the Second Amendment. The answer is not ever-increasing numbers of gun-control laws or harsher, more-restrictive gun-control laws; the answer is, rather, addressing the root causes of the predatory criminal behavior that produces gun violence, and better, more consistent enforcement of the myriad gun-control laws already in existence!

[JayS]

17. And I hope we can get politicians to see that gun violence...

...and the War On Drugs are so closely related that they could never get married.



Here is our conversation from yesterday on the WOD and jail, if anyone is interested:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1708531&mesg_id=1708531&page=

[Redneck Socialist]

16. Well...

I think that religion and homophobia are quite a bit different than the gun issue. I honestly believe that most people in this country are of the live and let live when it comes to matters of religion and too a lesser extent the same holds true for gay rights.

Many gun owners on the other hand honestly see gun control as a pretext to eventual banning and confiscation. Thus it is not surprising that they see calls for increased gun control as a direct personal attack. It is no wonder that they then go out and vote against those that propose such legislation. If the Democratic Party could successfully shed the perception (correct or not) that it is out to grab everyones guns it would be a simple matter to bring those voters back into the Democratic fold.

[Upfront]

19. Redneck

You nailed it! Right you are.

[TexasMexican]

23. Its not about guns, its about control.

thats what gun control is really about.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

26. www.capitalhillblue.com is a RIGHT WING CLINTON HATING....

website.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/scripts/Multipoll_v2.5.cgi?id=&view=archives

These are the archives with polls that ask such question as is Clinton a "rapist"???

:puke:

[DaveSZ]

28. "www.capitalhillblue.com is a RIGHT WING CLINTON HATING...."

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4629.shtml

[DaveSZ]

29. I view gun ownership as a civil liberties issue

I do agree with strict background checks, and also closing the gun show loophole.

[weedthesmoke]

30. How will Kerry answer the gun registration debate question?

Will he support registering gun owners?

[JayS]

31. Judging by the company he keeps...

...I'd say the probability of his support of registration is fairly high. I'm betting that it will be his first big blunder once in office and that he will be genuinely shocked when gun owners tell him to go pee up a rope and Democrats in the House and Senate get even more lonely for their own kind in 2006.

Doing an extremely narrow search using the words "feinstein schumer kerry kennedy photo" yields 624 hits of that famous picture of the Fab Four. Not a good sign.

http://feinstein.senate.gov/photogallery/special-events/photo-gallery-special-events-040302-df-kennedy-schumer-kerry-awb-vote.htm