Forgive me, but I don't understand...

[Labors of Hercules]

What exactly is it that Obama HIMSELF has said or done in this campaign that you disagree with? I'm not talking about regurgitated spin that some ignorant, narrow minded hack became irrationally offended by.

I'm talking about his words, in context. I'm referring to his actions and responses, delivered in reference to time and place.

Because everything, (and I mean EVERY little pitiful ridiculous snarky grumbling crumb of negativity I have seen directed toward him) has evidenced NOTHING in his words or actions that I have a problem with.

Not one damned thing, and I've been looking... HARD.

Obama is even making me feel somewhat self-conscious for assuming that every politician is a constantly cheating, underhanded narcissistic egomaniac... :beer:

[DarienComp]

1. Well, Labors, you gotta want it.

[redqueen]

2. Just pretend that he agrees with Wright about everything Wright has ever said.

Problem solved!

[SoFlaJet]

3. A Lot of these Clinton supporters

can't accept the fact that their choice for a democratic nominee is losing. A lot the "Obamaites" as they call us supported someone else before Barack Obama. WE accepted that our guy wouldn't be the nom but apparently they can't.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nichomachus]

26. A Cubs fan should go easy on calling people cultists

Also, a Hillary supporter should soft-pedal the idea that he is prone to backing losers.

[patrice]

11. Their whole thing has been tone deaf from the git go. Believe me, I WANTED to give HC some grace,

because she is an intelligent woman, but their campaign got off on the wrong foot (by pretty much just ***telling*** everyone to support her because "she is going to be the winner", rather than ***asking*** for our support) and then they only compounded that error with incidents that just kept me wondering "Who's in charge over there?", anyway, these things, her bad judgement on the IWR vote, my concerns about the people working for her and the big money in her campaign just made it so that it didn't work for me, even though I bounced back and forth for a while after John Edwards got out of it. I kept reality testing and her campaign kept failing.

[TheWraith]

20. You put it very well.

The Clinton campaign built up a year's worth of hubris and arrogance based on their "frontrunner" status, which alienated a LOT of people. I still remember how apalled I was during one of the early debates when she basically said that she wasn't going to discuss what she would or would not do when she was president.

[Cali_Democrat]

4. Guilt by Association is the only way to attack Obama

If you can't attack him, attack his supporters and people around him. The media has bought into it.

[Labors of Hercules]

6. seems to be true...

Cuz all I'm hearing are crickets from the Hillbot side of the fence.

[niyad]

5. his praise of ronnie ray-gun,, his comment that the repukes are the party of

ideas, his comments about "the excesses of the 60s", his arrogance in stating that all of hillary's supporters would come over to him, but his wouldn't go to her, his support of a woman's right to choose, so long as she makes the decision "prayerfully", his disingenuous comments about how he never heard jw make those remarks, although he heard jw make "some" controversial remarks, his comments about what sort of chief executive he would make, and the latest "stuff" comment, arrogance supreme. oh, and the "sweetie" comment.

[Labors of Hercules]

8. Got some potatoes to go with that gravy?

because I'm sorry, but a simpleton's list of fluffy headlines pulled out of context just doesn't do it for me.

[niyad]

14. you asked for reasons, you got them. rather than acknowledge the list,

you chose to name-call and make a snarky, snide comment.

how EVER will I bear up under your disdain?

try again, or go back to cleaning the stables.

[TheWraith]

22. LoH's point was that you're talking spin, not facts.

He didn't praise Reagan, he said Reagan changed politics more than any other recent president.

He said that the Republicans had been the "party of ideas" in the sense that they'd been driving the debate.

I'm sorry, there weren't any excesses in the '60s? Nothing at all?

Hillary's supporters WILL come over to him, or at least most of them. But she can not bring in the new voters that he can.

The "prayerfully" comment has been twisted ridiculously far out of context, and that spin is used to obscure the fact that he was defending abortion rights in an interview with Pat Robertson. And doing it well when you consider his point was that if your religious beliefs don't allow for abortion, you don't have to have one.

So he's disingenuous for saying he didn't hear Wright make the comments that were aired? When there's actual travel schedules that place him in Florida that day? How, pray tell, is that disingenous?

Hillary has never commented about what sort of president she'd be?

Trust me: you don't want to argue about campaign arrogance.

[Mike Nelson]

9. What/where was the "prayerfully" comment?

I'd like to see that... and, I do like him, btw.

[TheWraith]

25. I don't have a link, but...

It was during his appearence on the 700 Club. Him and Roberton were talking about abortion, and Obama said that it was something that shouldn't be taken lightly, but was a matter that was between a woman and her beliefs. "Prayerfully" is the only word I ever see quoted out of the interview, so you can tell that it's not a big deal, or the Obama bashers wouldn't have to so totally strip it of context and try to create a new one.

[gcomeau]

27. It's rare we get an opportunity to sum things up like this.

Let's see:

"his praise of ronnie ray-gun"

Which "praise", specifically? His statement that Reagen put America "on a fundamentally different path"? Was he wrong? Do you disagree with that statement? On what grounds? Were you talking about some other "praise"?

"his comment that the repukes are the party of ideas"

What he said was that the for a while the Republicans WERE the party of ideas. Again, on what grounds do you disagree? Is he saying they had excellent ideas that he wants to implement? No. He's just saying that for a period of time the Republicans were presenting new ideas and the Democrats weren't. If you want to go into a rage over that statement then tell us why it's such a horrible thing to have said. If you're just one of those people who go into a blind tantrum if anyone says anything non-insulting about the opposition whether it's true or not then that's a whole different matter of course. You'll just hate Obama, he's really not about that. At all.

"his comments about "the excesses of the 60s"

Which comments about the excesses of the 60s? What were they, and what about them was inaccurate or objectionable?

"his arrogance in stating that all of hillary's supporters would come over to him, but his wouldn't go to her"

Excuse me? He said this where and when? You wouldn't be making things up now would you?

"his support of a woman's right to choose, so long as she makes the decision "prayerfully"

Where and when did he say that? I've seen him say he thought that women who had abortions didn't make the decision frivolously. I have not once seen him say he thought the right to choose should be dependent on that. Are you perhaps misrepresenting his statement?

"his disingenuous comments about how he never heard jw make those remarks, although he heard jw make "some" controversial remarks:

Unless you have some evidence he actually DID hear him make those remarks, which would be big news, then you're just maligning his character here without any basis by calling his remarks disingenuous. Do you have such evidence?

"his comments about what sort of chief executive he would make"

Again, specifics? Where, when, what, and the reason you find it objectionable?

"and the latest "stuff" comment"

You have to be kidding me. You're holding staying "stuff" against him?

"oh, and the "sweetie" comment."

If that's the best you've got I'd be re-evaluating my position were I in your shoes.

[stop the bleeding]

10. This should be interesting

:popcorn::beer:

[izzybeans]

12. Don't expect many well reasoned responses. Most sensible Clinton supporters hang out in

other DU forums.

[niyad]

16. and any responses that are given are derided immediately. says so much

for obama's supporters, doesn't it?

[izzybeans]

19. Don't complain about right wing talking points then turn around and use them

You'll get a more serious discussion that way.

[boston bean]

13. RW talking points to describe Hillary's health care plan, for one. and those were

directly from his mouth.

[JimGinPA]

18. Those RW Talking Points Were Her Own Statements...

Directly from her mouth.

:shrug:

[jgraz]

17. Well, that whole "being black" thing is pretty offensive.

(yes, :sarcasm:)

[Unbowed]

21. He's creating a new paradigm of political reality that scares the shit out of some people.

That's all.

[2rth2pwr]

23. Typical White Person.

[depakid]

24. Lauding Bush I and Reagan's foreign policy

isn't exactly something I find reassuring....

Though I wonder whether (hope that) he's simply being disengenious.

[Texas Hill Country]

28. non universal healthcare, no ban on military contractors (blackwater) and more.

[TheWraith]

29. You think Hillary's going to ban Blackwater? She's not. Not even close.

Remember, her CHIEF STRATEGIST is Blackwater's PR man.

[LWolf]

30. Okay:

"I'm not against all war. Just dumb wars." And then he proceeds to repeatedly support the "dumb" war. I respect people who walk their talk. I want the war ended NOW, and I want politicians who say they want the war over to stop voting to fund it.

<snip>

“Let me make this clear,” Obama said in a speech prepared for delivery at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. “There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al-Qaida leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20070536/

I never supported the war on terror, don't support it now, and don't support unilateral military action in another nation.

He supports merit pay for Public Education; i don't:

Illinois Sen. Barack Obama today endorsed the idea of merit pay for teachers before an audience hostile to the idea, the giant National Education Association, but he softened the blow by telling the union's national assembly that he would not use "arbitrary tests" to link pay to performance.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/8335627.html

As a teacher, I take public education seriously. This is a deal breaker with me, and so is his willingness to use vouchers:

<snip>

Senator Obama said this week that he is open to supporting private school vouchers if research shows they work.
"I will not allow my predispositions to stand in the way of making sure that our kids can learn," Mr. Obama, who has previously said he opposes vouchers, said in a meeting with the editorial board of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. "We're losing several generations of kids, and something has to be done.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/20/105444/139

Obama wants to work with private insurance and pharmaceutical companies on health care. I want universal, single-payer, NOT-FOR-PROFIT health care.

There's more, but these are at the top of my list.

[Ronnie]

31. He said that merit pay should be looked at.

Putting aside the weasel words, merit pay just will not work. I taught where they more than looked at it. They tried to do it. It was a very short-lived trial. There are just too many variables. They have tried it now in Texas for a year, and they are shocked, shocked that it doesn't seem to have the "expected" outcome. In fact, opting out has been a common reaction. Districts couldn't deal with the funding formula. Merit pay is just another governmental attempt to educate on the cheap.
What did Senator Clinton say? She said that the only way to improve education is to raise teaching standards, raise teacher pay, and lower class sizes. Public school teachers know that this is true.
For me, that was it. Hillary knows. Barack doesn't know, but he said something anyway - something that actually meant nothing.