Ray Bradbury tirade: Wes Clark lost the nomination because of Moore

[Democat]

From an interview with Ray Bradbury, who is a known Bush lover and Clinton hater:

The conversation touched politics when Bradbury mentioned that Moore had ruined general Wesley Clark's chances to become the democrat's presidential candidate. Like several American commentators Bradbury means that Moore's support to Clark was a kiss of death when Clark did not distance himself from Moore's claim that Bush deserted from his military service.

Bradbury: He slandered the president to general Clark, and Clark allowed him to do it. Clark should have said: "Don't say that. It is not true." That day Clark lost his chance to become president.

I understand. And you supported general Clark?

Bradbury: No. I support honesty.

http://blogs.salon.com/0001561/2004/06/02.html#a5394

This is more from the interview that was quoted in the general forum. I found a translation on a blog on Salon, so I'm not 100% sure it's an accurate translation.

Original article, untranslated here:
http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=1058&a=272062&previousRenderType=2

Thread in the general forum about Bradbury bashing Moore:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1719636&mesg_id=1719636

[ibegurpard]

1. Whatever.

stick to writing sci-fi.

[I thought so.]

2. That's good advice.

n/t

[girl gone mad]

3. Moore didn't ruin anything..

and Clark didn't destroy his chances by not distancing himseelf from Moore. I truly believe Clark's fate was sealed when his campaign decided to skip Iowa.

Bradbury would fit right in with the GOP talking heads - light on facts, heavy on uninformed opinion.

[Padraig18]

5. I agree.

It's was a fatal blunder for Gen. Clark to skip Iowa.

[cosmokramer]

19. Oh my goodness...

...I am so happy! You and I finally found something on which we can agree!

:-)

[Crunchy Frog]

4. The only thing that Clark did

was to say that Moore had the right to free speech. If we're going to start demanding that our candidates come out against free speech rights, then I'm out of this party.

Anyway, Clark ended up taking a bullet for the Democratic party because it was that incident that got the story into the mainstream media and allowed Kerry and the DNC to pick it up without sustaining the damage that Clark did.

That statement of Bradbury that he supports honesty is pretty damn funny. He supports honesty as long as it doesn't concern *'s military service record.

I guess Bradbury is also really furious at Moore for his play on one of his book titles for his new movie. Maybe he'll give himself a stroke over it. I think it's likely that his days as a productive writer are over.

[Jai4WKC08]

12. Good analogy: Clark took "a bullet for the Democratic party"

Precisely so. And Peter Jennings, Tim Russert and a bunch of others stuck their fingers in the wound. But Clark never backed off.

Jennings especially. During the NH debate, he called Moore's statement, "a reckless charge not supported by the facts." That's bullshit, pure and simple, and Jennings should be called to account for it.

That whole debate was a travesty. Why on earth did the DNC allow Fox to run what was probably the most watched debate of the season, falling right before to the NH primary? And when did Jennings go over to the dark side? I never have figured all that out. Jennings was gunning for Clark that night--every question for him was bullshit. To this day, I wonder how much it had to do with Clark's relationship to Holbrooke, who married Jenning's ex-wife.

'Course, that doesn't explain the DNC blunder.

Well, Clark's Silver Star was for continuing to fight with a body full of bullets. The real kind. The party is lucky to have a man of courage like that on our side. And you know, his supposed "flip-flop" on the IWR was essentially taking a bullet for Kerry. If it happens again, and it likely will, at least we can count on him to keep fighting.

[robbedvoter]

6. Bradbury is a reactionary who hates free speech, women and anything

non-American. I was shocked when I read his recent interviews too. He sounds like a VERY DUMB freeper. The last person I'd listen to . About ANYTHING.
See for yourself
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1719636&mesg_id=1719636

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. Michael Moore

fills stadiums when he speaks. His anti-estabishment movies make millions of $$$$ and Bradbury is a typical freeper who is clueless as to what we Dems are all about.

Clark should have said: "Don't say that. It is not true."

BULLSHIT! Did he see the DEM crowd go NUTS when Moore said the chimp was a deserter? The repubs are scared. They know they are supporting an idiot and are going to lose in Nov.

[MoonRiver]

8. * WAS a deserter, and Moore was correct to point out the obvious.

General Clark was also correct for not contradicting him. When will everybody start shouting at the top of their lungs that widdle wannabe emperor HAS NO CLOTHES!
:argh:

[flpoljunkie]

9. Perhaps Wes Clark could have handled Moore's intemperate remarks better

at the time, but I will always admire Wes Clark tremendously for standing up for free speech and laying down the marker for us all, that not only is dissent not treason--it is our patriotic duty to speak up when our country is headed in the wrong direction.

Thank you again, Wes Clark. You are a true patriot, and we honor your service to our country and the world.

[KittyWampus]

14. Moore Said, In Pro-Wrestling Voice Clark vs. THE DESERTER!

all Mike did was announce Clark like that... it was a brief joke.

It was NOT a lengthy commentary.

Jennings and the press completely mischaracterized it.

[Jai4WKC08]

10. For the record, Clark's take on Moore and his remarks

From Norville's show on MSNBC, Feb 11, 2004:

CLARK: ...(Some) people said, “Why didn‘t you disavow what Michael Moore said about President Bush‘s military record?” Well, because Michael Moore had every right to say it.
And look at what‘s happened now. People are taking it a serious look at it. Michael Moore did that; he spoke out about it. I‘m not saying that‘s an important issue to me, but he had the right to raise that issue.

NORVILLE: I think some people thought that maybe you should have, if not put your arms around it, but ameliorated the comment, because it looked as though you endorsed it by not saying anything.

CLARK: Well, you know, people may think that. But those are people who are used to—those are political insiders. People who really understand what I stand for would know, I had nothing to do with what Michael Moore said. And more than that, he‘s a shock comedian of the left.

And what‘s happened in this country, that I find so devastating for American democracy is that over the last 10 years, there‘s dozens of shock comedians on the right. They say everything in the world. And one of them was even, you know, was even taken with using drugs and so forth and got commendations from the president of the United States. And if you look at everything he‘s said, the things he‘s said have been actually outrageous and far more outrageous than what Michael Moore was suggesting.

So I think there has to be balance. And one of the reasons I ran is to try to restore that balance, to try to show that the armed forces doesn‘t belong to just a single American party. To show that one party doesn‘t have a monopoly on people who believe in God. And to show that people have the right to express their opinions, not only on the right wing, but on the left."

Note: the transcript used to be at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4250412/ but they seem to have taken it down.

[Auntie Bush]

11. Thanks Jai...was nice to read that. WES is my HERO!

[incapsulated]

13. This is all news to me about Bradbury

I'm so sad. I didn't know he had become some rightwing asshole. He was one of my favorite authors as a kid.

*sigh*

Moore had nothing to do with Clark's problems. That's just Bradbury looking for another reason to slam Moore. Fuck him.

Now I'm depressed again.

:cry:

[The Zanti Regent]

15. Bradbury is a hard core Republican

I made the mistake of going to get lunch at the House of Pies on North Vermont in Los Angeles while he was there making one of his tirades.

Incredible that the man who wrote Farenheit 451 supports TV Preachers and other assorted Nazis advocating book burnings. HE says Bush is the right man at the right time, that it our duty to impose our Christian values on the ignorant rest of the world.

He went into a long rant about how Clinton was running cocaine out of Arkansas, Clinton was the source of all evil and how Hillary killed Vince Foster. He sounded just like Rush Limbaugh. there's no doubt in my mind that he's a contributor to the Freep message board.

It is so sad that a man whom I once admired turned out to be such a b-hole. No matter how hard he tries, he'll never be an a-hole

[Crunchy Frog]

16. I think it's funny how

he makes all these outrageous and completeley unsubstantiated claims about things that the Clintons have supposedly done, which only exist in the fevered imaginations of the lunatic right, and then he throws a fit when Michael Moore makes an intemperate, but largely accurate statement about *'s military service record.

This is the hypocracy of the RW Repukes. They can say absolutely anything about anyone they don't like without any substantiation at all, but God forbid if someone says something unflattering but true about one of them.:grr: :grr: :grr:

I've always liked Bradbury's writing, and find it difficult to associate him with these attitudes. I'm wondering if he has always been like this, or if it could be the product of advanced age and neurological degeneration.

[Jade Fox]

17. re: Age and degeneration: I was thinking the same thing....

How else could the person who wrote "The Martian Chronicles"--
if memory serves a powerful indictment of Imperialism and
Militarism-- be a Freeper nut?

[paulk]

23. it's kinda shocking isn't it?

Mr. Bradbury's books had a huge impact on my teenage world - now, he almost sounds... demented. What happened?

[cosmokramer]

18. Puhhhhhhhleeeeeeeeeeezeee....

...Gimme a friggin' break! Michael Moore was right!

[agincourt]

20. Methinks , Mr Bradbury,

did not age very well at all. I still love his books though, despite the fact that he does not know the meaning of the word "slander" and "president". Funny a guy as literate as that wouldn't

[dkf]

21. I didn't support Clark, but Bradbury is probably right.

momentum turned hard after that. I wonder if it would have been different if Clark had hit Bush hard there instead.

[incapsulated]

22. lol

Of course you missed Brabury's point entirely.

He was saying that Clark lost because he didn't disown Moore and call him a liar, not because he didn't "hit Bush hard".

:eyes:

[VOX]

24. I had no idea that Bradbury was so politically naive...

I can only think that, as he has aged, he has turned reactionary as his faculties have diminished.

I googled around a bit, and found some remarks that bespeak a terrible naivete. What a shame.

http://www.spaceagecity.com/bradbury/quotes.htm
POLITICS:
" wonderful. We needed him. Clinton is a s***head and we're glad to be rid of him. And I'm not talking about his sexual exploits. I think we have a chance to do something about education.... It doesn't matter who does it -- Democrats or Republicans -- but it's long overdue." (Salon.com, August 29, 2001)

"The great thing is our counter-revolution that occurred in the polls a few weeks ago. I think it's great. All the Democrats are out and the Republicans are going to have a chance in a couple of years. It doesn't make a difference what party you belong to--it's a chance for a fresh start. It's very exciting." (Speaking about the "Republican Revolution" of 1994)