Maybe it's time to ratchet it back, Obama supporters

[cali]

If you're really confident that Obama will be the nominee, relax. Let
the crap flow by, and avoid nasty attacks on Clinton. I'm not talking
about reasoned criticism; that's a different story.

I really do believe that Obama is pretty much inevitable, and that the
end is in sight. And we're going to need to come together to beat
McCain.

Imagine if things were reversed. It's painful for a lot of Hillary
supporters, just as it would be for a lot of Obama supporters. By
moving away from gratuitious attacks on Hillary, we can start to
shift the dynamic.

[SoFlaJet]

1. I agree cali

there's a different feeling in the air for some reason. Here was my post from this morning;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5425294

[DemGa]

2. BO kicked this thing off on Hillary's right-wing generated negatives

Why stop now? That would be disingenuous, I think.

Do you think people will forget?

[SoFlaJet]

4. the rhetoric

seems to have subsided a little bit as of late

[cali]

6. Clearly we see things very differently

and you're obviously free to see my comments however you please.

[DemGa]

13. I suppose we do -- and the game is not over either, by the way

[Mezzo]

84. on the second day of his campaign. no less. But maybe we could talk issues, instead of bookbags? nt

[FrenchieCat]

3. Until Penn is over with, Whatever issues come up, as long as they are not "silly"

I'm bringing up.

However, I will not call Hillary Clinton names nor get hung up on the stupid shit that doesn't matter in a long run, i.e., "Bad bowling", "Rocky References", "stuff", and shit.....

[Name removed]

44. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[golddigger]

97. Pure as the driven snow. Aye!

:evilgrin:

[Zachstar]

5. I agree that we need to move away from personal attacks but politics is politics.

When they understand political math
When they understand the scandals involved
When they understand that we have congress to work on.

They will be able to move on.

Seriously folks we have CONGRESS to start worrying about. Clinton supporters can do ALOT of good RIGHT NOW by moving their support to their congressional races. Races the republicans want to win BADLY!!

[woolldog]

12. I agree cali

They're going through the various stages of grief right now. It's best to leave them be...

[Zachstar]

14. It depends.

You see while it is good to not make things worse. If they try to spin or slime the likely nominee we do need to call them on it so the republicans do not gain material and talking points to try to sway.

[woolldog]

23. True.

I'm trying to tone it down a bit though. It's easy to get caught up in the negativity. I'm convinced that if this were an Edwards v. Obama primary this place wouldn't be so negative. Clinton seems to bring out the negativity in everyone. This link explains my perspective on the grieving process:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5423815

[Zachstar]

26. I have seen it and I agree that this place would be alot easier to read had it been edwards.

However that will soon end in my view. Soon enough that we can fill this forum with topics about congressional campaigns and what McCain has done.

Time to move on everyone!

[Auntie Bush]

25. You mean like Monica and her blue dress? Is that still OK with you guys?

[woolldog]

28. Auntie

I reject and denounce those comments.

[Auntie Bush]

33. I DO TOO!

Too bad Obama supporters don't.

They were used in the beginning of this campaign and as late as last week too when we were on strike. Sickening! Positively sickening! And these were posted by Obama democrats! And not one of his supporters criticized them.

[woolldog]

36. I'm an Obama supporter. n/t

[Bongo Prophet]

49. Many Obama supporters stay out of crappy threads for the most part.

Therefore we can't repudiate them.
Some just roll their eyes, or click to hide, or just scroll on by.
If both sides did more of that, they would just sink, and HOPEFULLY, better threads would stay on the front page longer.

It will take a while, but MANY of us are really trying to make it better.

[americanstranger]

76. Yep. I avoided the 'pregnant woman' and 'book bag' threads entirely.

What's more, I've never called Hillary Clinton a bitch or a whore. But nonetheless, I get tarred with that brush because of the candidate I support.

Which is why I'm a bit offended at the demands that 'Obama supporters' should apologize en masse.

I'm not apologizing for something that I didn't go near, and that someone here is trying to shame me into contrition for it sucks.

It's pretty bad when you try to avoid the crap but you get blamed for it anyway.

- as

[Bongo Prophet]

77. When flung poo hits the fan, it hits every woman and man. All we can do is do what we can.

I hear ye.
The call for apology is very similar to a belief in "Original Sin" that we all bear, regardless of personal behavior.
Perhaps a scapegoat is needed, to drag through the streets of Jerusalem, I don't know.

I defended Clinton, Edwards, Obama, etc this cycle - on endorsements and labels like "cults" and on name calling - on and on it went.
Surely many did not know what "side" I was on, and until a few weeks before Tx, I was just hanging loose and watching who would run a campaign that impressed me.
I did my research far from here, from the position papers and alliances, and from the c-span appearances. After being so caught up in 00-04, it was nice to have an abstracted distance.

I don't sweat the outrage and name calling much anymore - and less so now that it is aimed at me. It has gotten so over the top that the effectiveness has lessened to a mere whirring noise. I guess this is like when people have kids, and get immune to the incessant noise.

Just keep on doing what you do, and try to reach out on occasion to a fellow democrat.
We'll be alright, I think.
I sense a change in the wind.

[SoFlaJet]

103. good stuff Bongo

I think what's helping lately, for me anyway is seeing Hillary at least attacking McCain and not just Obama on the trail-it's been helpful-makes me like her again. You're right we had the "Let It Sink" thing a while back but still got goaded into a lot of useless wars-we gotta keep trying though-we are all democrats-well most of us anyway...

[DesertFlower]

7. i totally agree with you.

if we don't come together, McCain will be prez.

[ShaneGR]

8. Have you been reading DU? It's like 80% anti Clinton

Jesus people, don't you understand that if these primaries weren't happening this party building would not be happening in any of these states?

[Major Hogwash]

43. The forum reflects the sentiment of the country about Hillary. Don't blame DU!!

80% of the country can't stand her.
15% of them are Democrats.
So what else is new?
The Clintons have been hated for a long time.
She knew that when she got into this race, she has always had high negative numbers.

[Dinger]

104. I Think I Know Why

the Obama group here has 4281 posts, and the Clinton group has 11, 228. In fact, there haven't been many more posts added to the Obama group in quite a while, and more recently the Clinton group has slowed down too.

[Skittles]

9. HA HA, LOLOL

PLEASE

[cali]

10. why?

want to explain what you find so amusing?

[knixphan]

11. we're already together

Everyone's aggravated and antsy, and in need of a GE

[emilyg]

16. We're not together.

[ronnykmarshall]

41. Damn right.

[knixphan]

53. we'll be together when we start dreaming of SCOTUS appointments.

we're together.

we're just not 'civil'.

[Auntie Bush]

63. Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

I'm damned pissed! So are a lot of us! Obama supporters went way OVERBOARD and betrayed one of our Democrat nominees. So why do you think we should just forgive and forget?

[Maven]

71. Yeah, not really though.

Heh.

[golddigger]

99. Buzzzzzzzz! Wrong.

[Faygo Kid]

15. When there are gratuitous attacks on Hillary, condemn them. Legit criticism is another story.

Way too many posts here over time about how Obama supporters had better mute themselves, or there will be hurt feelings and Hillary supporters will not back him in November. And way too many are quite obviously designed to silence criticism or intimidate in a none-too-subtle fashion.

I know you're not there, cali, but it's a slippery slope. I don't curse Hillary or otherwise accuse her of outrageous things (although I do ridicule the absurdity of her supporters from time to time. It's a weakness).

I don't think we can "shift the dynamic" until the game is won. Until then, we are going to have to go at it here. Preferably thoughtfully and with humor and understanding, but however it happens, it's likely to continue until the process is finished, and noses will get out of joint. I can deal with that - but not with another four years of Bushism. I will continue to speak out for Barack.

[TTUBatfan2008]

18. As long as Hillary's supporters keep comparing him to Stalin...

and posting nonsense about some delegate he doesn't even know, I don't think Obama supporters should sit back and smile. If there's legit criticism, then go for it. But if not, I say stay away from it. The idiotic thread claiming that Hillary has set women back is a bad attack that shouldn't have been made.

[democrattotheend]

80. I was accused of telling Obama supporters to mute themselves

When I posted a thread begging Obama supporters to stop with the personal attacks. I agree with you 100% - legit criticism is fine, but the personal attacks have gotten way out of hand. It's one thing to question whether she is telling the truth about something, but there is no need to call her a liar. There's a difference between saying she has run a despicable campaign and calling her a despicable human being. Criticize her behavior, not her as a person. And bitch, whore, witch, etc are never appropriate, IMO.

[rug]

17. I_miss_your_old_keyboard.

[cali]

22. still have it

but a clever DUer taught me that if you copy a space and then hit Cntrl
+ v, you can create spaces! DUers are so resourceful.

[IsItJustMe]

105. That is good to know. I always wondered why the spaces all got deleted.

[Auntie Bush]

19. "we're going to need to come together to beat McCain"

No fooling! Isn't that what Hillary supporters have been asking you for a long time? Have you listened? NO! Just last week you were calling Hillary...hilly. Not even capitalized...like we refer to bush*...with utter contempt. I'll believe you mean this when I when I see it with my own eyes. And that means less contrived sicko posts psychoanalyzing Hillary and calling her a liar when your candidate does it all the time. Hillary's are mild according to his. She lied if that's what you want to call it...about sniper fire. He lied about knowing what rev. Wright said and that's much more important to me. It will take quite a change of course to satisfy me and make me forgive what's been going on here. But, at least you're trying...I hope...and that's a beginning. You ought to PM some of the more offensive posters around here and make that suggestion.

[chascarrillo]

20. If things were reversed, I would have accepted Clinton's nomination by now.

But, what can I say - I'm rational that way.

[KittyWampus]

21. Look, I put a large number of Clinton supporters on Ignore. Not being subjected to the dreck

I can now log onto DU and get information about Obama that is useful and largely drama free.

I don't need to see teh stupid. You can't argue with it any way.

And I have posted FAR less myself. Because I'm no longer compelled to rebut the stupid.

[woolldog]

27. I only ignore the Clinton supporters who never have anything

worthwhile to add. Currently about 30 on there.

[KittyWampus]

31. and in doing that, it eliminates my compulsion to post ever snarkier and pointed rebuttals

[knixphan]

42. solid strategy - I just started, and it helps

[ampad]

69. That is what I did

Fortunate for me that some of them are being taken off my list via the tomb stone. It says quite a bit about what is going on here when you see so many of them being told to exit.

[Maven]

72. I do the same

with the obnoxious Obama supporters.

[KittyWampus]

78. that's a very wise decision. I have a couple of Obama supporters on my "mental" ignore list

it is not necessary to make EVERY thread you start as obnoxious as possible.

[crankychatter]

24. I let myself get sucked in again today

I promise I'll be good from now on.

[Blue-Jay]

29. huh?

[sniffa]

30. Contrary to some perceptions (perhaps)

I've been doing that for 2 months now. I've created my own peace here, and I encourage both sides to do so.

[Major Hogwash]

48. Si, senor.

Me too.

[Lilith Velkor]

81. Well, I noticed.

Good on ya. :toast:

[existentialist]

32. You're right, just when I had found a substantive article

that truly put some substance to some of the complaints against Clinton which--as of half an hour ago when I did a search had not yet been posted on DU.

Now I'm thinking that Clinton supporters are hurting enough. I don't want to attack them. I want them to join us--and I do think you're right that Clinton has basically lost. I do know that Obama gained one more delegate at the North Dakota Democratic convention over the weekend, and is does seem to be a matter of time.


but at the same time I consider this to be substantive:

I guess, with quoting or editing, here is the author and the site.

Dan Kennedy
April 8, 2008 7:00 PM

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/dan_kennedy/2008/04/friends_in_low_places_1.html

[Political Heretic]

34. I'm not enjoying the increased gloating and attitude from my camp. :(

[kwenu]

35. Hillary is a bit different from the usual.

A candidate that is loyal to the party does not engage in rhetoric that will destroy the party or the party's eventual nominee. That kind of loyalty wins the respect of all party members and accords the candidate respect as a party leader. That's not happening with Hillary.

Supporters of an unsuccessful candidate usually take on the air of "We've fought a good fight, it doesn't look like our candidate is going to win the nomination, but we are going to work to make sure the party wins." That signals to the supporters of the successful candidate that the battle is over, respect is due, and we now need to work together. That's not happening with Hillary supporters.

We have a situation where the losing candidate and many of that candidate's supporters are not only breaking the traditional rules but essentially declaring war to the end in hopes that the successful party nominee is destroyed. The "scorched earth" policy is what it's called. It is as vile as it is disloyal.

Oddly,I can easily imagine this situation turned around to some degree. Obama and Hillary were always my top two candidates, but the tactics used by the Clinton campaign that became apparent after Iowa just turned my stomach. The low tactics used in distributing the photo of Obama in the Kenyan clothing along with admissions that the Clinton campaign was involved in circulating the "He's a muslim" email cemented forever who my candidate was going to be.

If the situation we're reversed the party leaders would have put the no.2 candidate out by now. Yes, I truly believe the only reason Hillary is allowed to be in the race at this point is the fact she is Hillary Clinton. This would NOT be allowed for any other candidate including Obama. In the end, I will still vote for the Democratic nominee even if Hillary manages to rig this thing because ultimately this is about my COUNTRY and an unjust war, not about Obama or Hillary. However, Hillary's tactics have earned my contempt.

The errant thoughts and statements of a candidate's supporters are just NOT relevant to me in my determination of who I am going to vote for. I know that may be relevant to others but people are free to vote based upon really stupid reasons or reasons that I disagree with or no reason at all.

[IsItJustMe]

106. I wish I could recomend a thread, for what you said is truest thing I have read here in a long time.

[Major Hogwash]

37. The term is "ratchet it up" not "ratchet it back". You can't ratchet it back now if you tried.

How many days are there until Pennsylvania votes, anyway?

Think about it.

[nichomachus]

40. It's really "ratchet" == but what the heck

[Major Hogwash]

46. Good cache.

LoL

[nichomachus]

47. Don't you mean "cash?"

[nichomachus]

38. Obama supporters???

I am, at this time, not firmly attached to either candidate. I came into the process leaning toward Hillary. For a lot of reasons, I now lean slightly the other way.

But here's a good example of what I see.

Someone posted an article that said kids were encouraging their parents to support Obama. A Hillary supporter said that it was going to be a disaster because all of these people would run away after the primary. I asked "Sez who?" It was a totally unsupported claim, on which the poster built an argument. I suggested that if Hillary supporters continued to just make up stuff -- like the claim all these parents wouldn't support Obama in the GE -- it hurts Hillary's credibility. This is how one supporter answered:

Would you like the list of Obama lies? What about his parents being inspired by Selma?What about his
inspiration for politics being an Ebony article that doesn't exist? What about his taking credit for legislation that he didn't write ? What about taking credit for legislation that he didn't write? What about taking credit for legislation that didn't pass and stating it did? There are more than enough "credibility problems to go around and Obama is not sancrospect.

This is totally unrelated to what I was talking about and, quite frankly, borders on the hysterical. I see more of this coming from Hillary supporters than I do from Obama supporters.

Another point is that not everyone who criticizes Hillary is an Obama supporter, although her supporters seem to think they are. Another poster suggested that because I took issue with something she said, they I agreed with "other Obama supporters" who called her ((insert bad name)).

[sniffa]

54. I was on that thread, and saw your post

Yet, I didn't see the post you quoted.

But now I have.

[ronnykmarshall]

39. Good luck with that shit.

When it comes to the GE, I'll take the lead of Michelle Obama - "I'll have to think about it".

[Bongo Prophet]

52. You're a smart one, ronny. I am sure you will figure out the best solution.

:thumbsup:

[ronnykmarshall]

59. Thank you Bongo .....

But I gotta tell ya ... it's VERY hard for me to get excited about this man. I want to very much to feel like I still belong in this party. But right now, I don't. I've been called everything under the sun. I love my candidate. I've never in my life wanted someone to win an election like I do with Hillary. I'm not alone. DU has done nothing but cement to me that I'm not a part of the "Unity" camp. When I hear shit from Michelle Obama saying "Oh, I'll have to think about it" I cringe. Sorry, but that's how I feel right now.

[Bongo Prophet]

75. That's okay, I actually understand. Ya thinkI was crazy about Dukakis?

Real affection for a candidate is rare and can be painful.
My first? Bobby Kennedy. I was 10 years old. too young to be so crushed.
My second? the Al Gore that showed himself AFTER Florida, dammit. the one who wrote "Earth in the balance" and then went into hiding for 8+ years. to then come out and make some of the best damn speeches ever regarding the Iraq war and the loss of our rights. Oh, and some other stuff. ;)
My third? john Kerry, who I admired through the BCCI/Iran/contra hearings, thinking "someday, if that guy gets in office and opens those records...."

We have been robbed of our visionaries. through suspect bullets and thwarted ballots.

Now, I just hope for us to escape Bush v 3.0.
Hillary would be an amazingly competent and hard working President, and I would cast that vote with no hesitation.
Obama has potential to be transformational, and his knowledge of our constitution and ideas on open govt appeal to the deep democrat in me - but I don't know if it can be done. There is a continuation of govt that does not take kindly to those that threaten the status quo.

I have little faith in the people anymore.

Just a tiny spark of leftover hope, actually.
And maybe the strength for one more go of it.

But I understand your struggle, and even if you decide to abstain or go green or whatever - I respect that right.
It is sacrosanct, and belongs to no one but you.

[newmajority]

89. You're misrepresenting what Michelle said.

The question asked of Michelle Obama was NOT "will you vote for Hillary Clinton if she is the nominee?" but actually "will you WORK for Hillary Clinton is she is the nominee?".

I think that most people would "have to think about" becoming an active supporter of someone who has repeatedly trashed their spouse, as Hillary has done to Obama.

[golddigger]

100. Damn right!

[jillan]

45. Nah - go ahead! You guys provide us with great entertainment.

[PoliticalAmazon]

50. I think BO supporters are getting tired of the unending horseshit coming from Hillary...

...and are ready to move on. We've had to put up with a lot from her, and she has proven herself to be a very embarassing Democrat, with the number of lies, gaffes and unethical actions on the order of what we'd expect from Bush Jr, not from a Democratic candidate.

I know I'm losing patience with the process, especially since every freaking day a new Hillary disaster occurs.

She has destroyed her own chances to be president, and I'm tired of her unending ration of bullshit and Rovian tactics.

I expect I will get a lot less patient if this continues on, so I will apologize ahead of time if I turn acerbic.

[DemGa]

79. You are repeating a campaign tactic from BO

"number of lies, gaffes and unethical actions"

"Obama Camp Memo on Clinton “Misleading” Voters"

http://thepage.time.com/obama-camp-memo-on-clinton-misleading-voters/

Certain Dems smeared Al Gore THE VERY SAME WAY in 2000:

http://ariannaonline.huffingtonpost.com/columns/column.php?id=228

[PoliticalAmazon]

83. Wrong. I was voicing these opinions before I even knew much about Obama...

And to try to discredit my opinion by saying I'm simply repeating Obama's tactic, and to try to link it with smears of Gore, is both unethical and a logical fallacy.

If you cannot support your candidate by honest measuers, perhaps you should re-think your choice of candidate.

[DemGa]

93. It most certainly IS a campaign tactic from BO

as the memo proves unequivocally -- Whether or not you agree with these distortions matters not -- And the comparison is a perfect one - in fact, it's EXACTLY the same thing.

But even leaving these truths aside, it can be seen this vile smear is emanating directly from the BO campaign itself. If one is to support Barack Obama, they would also support his vicious and underhanded smear campaign. You cannot circumvent this truth.

[goldcanyonaz]

109. It's heartbreaking to watch too.

[Lisa0825]

51. I agree.

I cringe when I see a sarcastic topic... things I would find funny in other venues I just see as spiteful in GD: P at this time. Like salt in a wound.

[madrchsod]

55. i know he picked up 6 republican votes this last week

my son`s father in law and his brothers----they know he`s black,they won`t vote for a woman,and the reason they won`t vote for john is----he voted against veterans benefits!....there it is folks--veteran`s benefits...

[psychopomp]

56. Ya think?

I haven't said nary a peep for two weeks; I think Sen. Obama has a lock on the nomination. I don't bother trying to engage anti-Obama people online any longer.

[scheming daemons]

57. As long as HRC is hell-bent on destroying our party, I'm not letting up......

Her candidacy must be destroyed.... with NO chance of bouncing back.


If she'd get out of the way and lets history take its course, we'd let up on her.


As long as she is going to continue to lie about Obama, pump up McCain's resume, and generally continue to fuck up this golden year for Democrats....ratcheting back only lets her campaign regain its footing.


You don't take your foot off the opponent's neck until the game is DECLARED over.


McCain is the enemy.... Hillary is enabling him. Every day she goes out there bashing Obama is another good day for our enemy - John McCain.


I have no patience for her bullshit anymore.

[Bensthename]

58. You are right... And the poster is right..

Oh I'm torn. Torn like an old sweater..

[Oilwellian]

70. ROFL

Literally! :rofl:

[Bake]

86. That sounds like the "scorched earth" strategy

That you Obama people love to complain about. But don't let a little inconsistency like that bother you.

Fuck unity.

Bake

[scheming daemons]

94. The only way to respond to "scorched earth" is in kind.... Hillary started it

[bain_sidhe]

60. I just posted on another thread

I agree with the sentiment, but I don't think it going to help... It's the operation chaos type folks who are causing most of the hard feelings around here. They're not going to respond to this kind of appeal... Hard feelings and anger and having half the dems (or, as of the last poll, 43% of them) stomping off in a huff is their whole goal.

[BlueJac]

61. Yes, it is time to call the dogs off Cali.....

I agree.......peace out!

[pettypace]

62. Best way is to not post on the anti - Obama posts

There are certain posters like tullarian, jackson dem, mags, ax10 who just try to rile us up. Lets ignore their posts.

[mudesi]

64. I would agree, except that Hillary is helping McCain

If there were no consequences to Clinton's Tonya Harding tactics, I'd agree with you.

Unfortunately, McCain may just win the general election thanks to her. And it's exactly what she wants.

[Auntie Bush]

66. No, Mccain may win it thanks to people like you who use Tonya comments.

Obama people better wake up! YOU are about to lose ALL the Hillary supporters and if McCain wins...I'll say Karma hit you in the ass.

[mudesi]

68. Please

It is mathematically impossible for her to win the nomination. She knows this and is attempting to run again in 2012 by making sure Obama is damaged enough to lose. She threw Kerry under the bus in a similar fashion back in 2004 just so she could have a chance in 2008.

[Auntie Bush]

73. PLEASE

You're paranoid! And full of hooey to boot! You should be ashamed of yourself for saying/repeating such crap/lies. You people make up stories...repeat them...repeat again and again and wallah...It's now FACT. and can be repeated and believed. Stop the nonsense! I can't believe you actually believe this! You're pathetic! If I believed in putting people on ignore...you'd be right up there at the top of my list. Now go away with your nonsensical lies.

[Bake]

85. Where do you people get this "mathematically impossible" bullshit?

Until somebody gets to 2025, which NOBODY DOES WITHOUT THE SUPERDELEGATES, nothing is mathematically impossible! Stop fucking LYING about it.

Bake

[golddigger]

102. It's called delusional 'Hope.'

[Catherine Vincent]

65. Too late!

[AtomicKitten]

67. We have work to do against McCain; this delay ain't helping.

Obama is making it impossible for Hillary to beat him in delegate count. That's a mathematical fact. Yet she lingers. She has been driving a case for the SDs overturning the will of the people, in fact has rallied that very undemocratic path to the White House such that her supporters seem fine with it. She is cultivating bitterness, and that's bad for the party.

She is now gambling her Senate career. How she exits this race is directly commensurate with her future political viability. I'm a big fan of primary challenges. It's up to her.

[MattNC]

74. It's a message board

it doesn't matter.

[cooolandrew]

82. Yep, positivity increases his poll figures. Forgive the past spin let's move on and up....

It's McCain or bust now. Promote Barack and address McCain we don't need to be brutal on McCain I get the feeling McCain will at least try to fight fair as long as we do address his policy first if possible..

[totodeinhere]

87. Maybe it's time to ratchet it up and get this thing over once and for all...

so we can start concentrating on McCain.

[newmajority]

88. My observations after returning to this board after an extended absence

I've been out of the loop for a couple months, and just returned to DU recently, and from what I've seen so far, the "personal" rhetoric seems to have calmed down somewhat from what it was. Apparently some of the worst offenders from Camp DLC got a pizza delivery or something?

At this point, I'm not out for battle with Hillary supporters, unless they blatantly ask for it, but I'll definitely continue to call out Hillary herself (and her joke of a campaign) on the blatant lies and hypocrisy, this whole Penn/Colombia shell game being the most recent example. I don't see that as "gratuitous" at all.

As for attacking Grandpa McLoony, I'm all for that.

[madwivoter]

90. Good call...

:)

OT, but some might find it amusing (I know I did)...I dreamed about the Clintons last night. Bill and Hillary were in my kitchen and Hillary was talking about how she's staying in it and there's nothing that could stop her. As far as I remember I was just listening and not really interacting with either of them. While Hillary was going on and on about staying in, Bill cut her off and started crying begging her to make it stop. Bill was wearing a green velvet blazer and one of the sleeves was too short. :shrug:

[Vinca]

91. I've begun to spontaneously ratchet back because so many posts on here

have gotten repetetive and boring. How many times can you defend against something utterly stupid without losing your mind? I agree Obama is most likely going to be the nominee and anyone who is still aligned with Hillary won't switch no matter what anyone says anyway.

[greguganus]

92. let it sink? n/t

[Clintonista2]

95. This is eerily reminiscent of your "Lets stop bashing John Edwards" thread a while back

How ironic. You spent months trashing Edwards before starting that thread, just like you spent months trashing Clinton before creating this one. How typical.

[Bucky]

96. "Let the crap flow"

Has it not already been abundant?

.

[kwenu]

98. You mean "ratchet it back" and whack 'em again. Right?... Just kidding.

[IsItJustMe]

101. I think a majority of the really nasty attacks are not coming from Obama supporters to begin with.

More trolls around here than you can shake a stick at. Jusy my opinion.

[JVS]

107. Take it to 11!

[sueragingroz]

108. oh goody for you

:eyes: