Hillary's Speeches: Pure Out-And-Out Horseshit

[Better Believe It]

CounterPunch
Apri1 8, 2008

The New Decider
Hillary's Western Swing
By MICHAEL DONNELLY


Empty Rhetoric or Bald-Faced Lies?

In the recent past, we have seen Hillary's often-told tale of coming into Tuzla with her teenage daughter and entertainers while under sniper fire discredited. Though somehow, she can compound the lie with others about sleep-deprivation and misspeaking, when she was reading it off her notes for the umpteenth time; not to mention, she wrote it up in her book. Like Bush pretending to search for WMDs under a desk, she insulted us further when she went on Jay Leno's Tonight Show and joked she was late because she was "pinned down by sniper fire at the Burbank airport."

Then the lie Clinton won Ohio with was discredited. That whopper had a pregnant woman going to the hospital, only to be denied admittance because she had no insurance and didn't have a $100 deposit. The second time she told it the woman was rejected at two hospitals. The third time: the baby died. The fourth: mom herself died two weeks later.

Come to find out, yes, a pregnant Ohio woman did rush to the hospital, her baby was stillborn and yes, she died two weeks later. But, she was not the uninsured minimum wage worker of Clinton myth; she was a restaurant manager with insurance who was admitted immediately to the hospital.

It's not that lying to pad the resume, avoid Indictment or to advance her political fortune is anything new for Hillary Clinton. She famously said she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary (debunked); she told New Yorkers she was a Yankee fan when she lived in Chicago (debunked); she told rural New Yorkers that she was a "duck hunter" (debunked); she claimed that her daughter Chelsea was jogging around the World Trade Center at the time of the 9/11 attack (debunked by Chelsea herself.) And, those subpoenaed Rose Law billing records just happened to show up one day on a hallway table in the most monitored home in America!

Please read the entire article at:

http://www.counterpunch.org/donnelly04082008.html

[polpilot]

1. Sounds like bullshit to me...but it could be horse shit.

[donheld]

50. Sexist!

Bullshit is a sexist term. At least with horseshit it could go either way :D

[Bensthename]

2. Warning. You might be called racist or sexist for bring up facts on Hillary. But good post.

[Better Believe It]

3. Oh well ....

Those would be people who are unable to defend Hillary's lies.

[Hepburn]

4. Come on, now that is going too far...

...it's donkey shit, OK?

[Zachstar]

5. That is not acceptable either.

How about Elephant shit?

[Hepburn]

8. I stand corrected!

:hi:

[quantass]

6. k&r

[Better Believe It]

7. How about

doggie do do?

[dsc]

9. On the subject of bald faced lies

It is the height of irony to read a post dedicated to what a liar Clinton is when the author is a big fact liar. Hillary was a Yankee fan. It was reported on, well before she ran for Senate from New York, as far back as 1992. As any sports fan can tell you, if you root for a national league team (the Cubs) in a city with an American league team (the Sox) you pick an American league team to root for as well (the Yankees were both famous and good in her youth). It isn't a lie by her but a lie by the press that has been endlessly repeated by liars like the author.

She didn't say Chelsea was jogging around the trade center she said SHE HAD THOUGHT CHELSEA WAS GOING TO JOG AROUND THE CENTER but that Chelsea had decided not to. It is on tape for christ's sake. She didn't say she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary but that her MOTHER TOLD HER she had been named after Sir Edmund Hillary. I was told, for years, that my uncle had died of cancer (he died when I was about 6). I only found out years later that he had died of his addiction. I repeated the cancer story for years. That doesn't make me a liar.

Of course, under Clinton rules, lies about her aren't lies at all.

[nichomachus]

10. Good post -- all the way down to the "victim" line -- and then it died

[dsc]

11. what other explanation do you have for the repeated times

this shit has to be debunked. It is a matter of public record what she said on the today show. It isn't burried in some vault. I didn't divine it from tea leaves. I watched a flipping video tape. As to the Yankee thing. I read it in a book. I didn't get it in a CIA briefing.

[nichomachus]

12. She brought it on herself

The explanation is history, perception, and expectations.

She came into this with baggage about veracity -- actually inherited from Bill. That meant she had to be extra careful about what she said on the campaign trail. She wasn't. Not everything she says is wrong, but everything, because of several gaffes she made, is suspect. That is death to a campaign when your biggest asset is credibility.

Then, she told some provably false stories and gave lame explanations for them. Once you do that, you're screwed.

Campaigns are as much about perception as anything else -- maybe that's fair, maybe it isn't, but it's a fact of life.

When I was a young reporter, I caught (overheard actually) a politician telling people to lie to me. From that point on, I doubted everything he said. I assumed it was a lie until proven otherwise.

The hospital incident is a good example. First, because it involved a recent incident and a real person, whose family is still grieving, she (or her campaign) should have checked that story out 10 different ways -- and should have talked to the family before she went public with it.

How would you feel if a member of your family died under sad circumstances and, without even talking to you, John McCain was out on the trail using your loved one's name and death as a reason to vote Republican -- and he screwed up a few details in the story. You would be absolutely livid and you would accuse him of making stuff up, even if what he said was 90 percent true.

The main problem I see with the Clinton campaign is that it is tone deaf to political realities and to the perception issue. That can be a fatal flaw for a politician.

The best way to "debunk" something is before hand. Don't give the other people -- or bystanders -- ammunition. With Hillary's high negatives, she had to be extremely pro-active in preventing this type of problem. The campaign wasn't. I truly think they thought it was going to be a Super Tuesday cakewalk with candy and flowers -- and when that blew up in their faces, they didn't have a Plan B.

She needs to have someone at her side who is really savvy and can point out the pitfalls in saying things that open the way to be attacked. All the explanations after the fact, can't erase the perceptions caused upfront.

[rinsd]

27. Yeah so join in with the MSM's bullshit...like you probably did with Gore & Kerry.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5420513

[nichomachus]

29. Wow -- you people never stop

Accusing someone you don't know of things that they may or may not have done. This is what's killing Hillary's campaign. If she loses, her so-called supporters will bear a huge part of the blame.

[rinsd]

31. Low post count, hiding profile....

I smell Zombie flesh.

[nichomachus]

65. I apologize for not meeting your faux criteria

Not posting a lot isn't a sign of anything -- and I don't know anything about a "profile." I'm not into the myspace fad.

Apparently, you have to have a zillion posts here -- or you get ridiculed, as I have several times by Hillary supporters. Apparently, only blowhards have credibility here, at least among the Hillary crowd.

I'll say it again. The Hillary people are really turning a lot of people off.

I'm not supporting either candidate at this point, but Hillary's people are doing a good job of pushing me in the other direction.

Legitimate questions are met with accusations. Justified observations get hysterical and abusive responses.

I've even started wondering whether some alleged Hillary "supporters" are really right-wing trolls trying to ruin her candidacy and her image among Democrats. If they are, they're succeeding.

[Beaverhausen]

19. next, they'll remind us that Gore said he invented the internet

thanks for your post. I wanted to let you know someone read it. :hi:

[rinsd]

26. Yup

[nichomachus]

32. Except Gore never said it -- Hillary did claim she came under sniper fire

That's the difference. If you can't understand that, you need to think about it.

[rinsd]

37. OK here's another Gore is a liar story...MSM was full of them...hmmmmm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5420513

[redqueen]

81. Yes, that's a not-so-small distinction

which you might think would stop some from trying to claim that Hillary is being treated as unfairly as Gore was with respect to this type of thing.

[stillcool]

38. that Chelsea running around...

New York City was a bold-faced-lie told by none other than Dick Morris...repeatedly. The baseball and who she was named after are pathetic add-ons, that are just silly. The hospital story is not about lying, it is about not checking the facts of a story, and her campaign people are responsible for that..they pissed off the hospital.

[Nederland]

73. Let me summarize your post

Tuzla story: She lied.
Ohio story: She unknowingly repeated some one else's lie.
Sir Edmund Hillary story: She unknowingly repeated some one else's lie.
Yankee fan story: She told the truth.
Chelsea running around the WTC story: She told the truth.

Is that a fair summary?

[redqueen]

80. Yup... whoever wrote this isn't too picky about the truth, himself. (nt)

[JimGinPA]

13. K&R

[Erin Elizabeth]

14. I prefer to say:

[Auntie Bush]

15. It takes one to know one.

Horseshit recognizes horseshit when it see it.
Birds of a feather flock together.
Takes one to know one..............

[Hepburn]

17. Well, that does explain your support for HilLIARy! n/t

[Auntie Bush]

20. I see you and bush* have the same taste in dogs.

[Hepburn]

64. Actually....no....

...the asshole has the same taste as me and the person pictured below with his Scottie:



I got my first Scottie when I was in grade school back in the 1950s because I wanted a dog just like his. My Scottie before my present Scottie was a direct descendant of the Scottie pictured above and no one dared say "Ronald Reagan" around her because she barked and howled like crazy anytime that name was said.

BTW: Are you so ignorant that you are unaware of Fala? Another dumbass comment from you which shows you have NO clue about the history of the most well-known Dem prez there ever was...and you claim to be a Dem! LOL

[dionysus]

76. wait, don't you have those little yappy pos jack russels?

yipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipeyipe

[Auntie Bush]

86. Who are all the cute smart little dogs in all the ads? JACK RUSSELLS!

By the way...your post made the shittiest post of the week. Take a peek.

By the way... my little dog NEVER barked at anyone...not even the mailman or the UPS guy. You need to buy one or you haven't lived. Best dog we ever had!

[dionysus]

87. but... i'm a cat guy

:shrug: :hi:

[dionysus]

75. lol when all else fails and you're getting pwned... act like a third grader...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Cha]

16. hilary's staunchest opponents

could not imagine what a liar she's been. Thanks for posting this Better Believe It..I've read most of these before but it's good to have them in one place for easy reference.

If this thing had ended on SuperTues like hilary stated it would..can you imagine what lies she'd have planned for the US citizens when she was the big fat cheeze?



Here's to Sinbad! :patriot: :bounce: :kick: :party:

[Cronus Protagonist]

18. And Saint Obama never lies

Hahahahaaaa!!! Spend the same amount of time looking for Obama's lies and you'll fill the same sized article. Spend more time and make a larger one, go ahead!

[Bigleaf]

21. Come on now. Who are you kidding?

[Cronus Protagonist]

23. Nice race-baiting there

Typical for an Obama supporter. I notice you didn't say that Obama never lies. That would be too much for you, right? You couldn't defend such an inaccurate statement, so you don't make it.
The fact is, Obama's a liar too. As are you and I.

[jgraz]

33. The only one race-bating is you

Did it ever occur to you that most people just see a picture of a child looking at Hillary like she's full of shit? You apparently see "a black" not showing proper respect to the nice white lady.

[mtnsnake]

40. No way dude. Cronus is spot on and you're dead wrong. Nice race baiting by you guys AGAIN

[psychopomp]

44. Go climb a mountain

...stand on the top and yell, "I AM AN IDIOOOT!!"

[mythyc]

48. eggsactly

:rofl:

[jgraz]

46. Oh yay, it's the Goddess of Peas

Thanks, but I'd rather talk to someone actually connected to reality.

[TLM]

52. Yeah don;t you pay attention....

anything with a non-white person in it, is race baiting....

[Bigleaf]

54. No race-baiting here. I don't play that game. If you can find a photo thats similar with a white

girl/boy, please let me know. I'll be glad to use that one instead. Nice try.

[shellgame26]

57. so you have a problem

with the fact that the child in the photo is black? Says more about you than anything. BTW: Stop talking about Obama's lies and name ONE. I can tell you several of Hillary's right off the bat instead of simply saying. SHe's a liar.

[Cronus Protagonist]

74. Barry lied about his minister several times

Until the film footage showed otherwise. He lied about his friend, the pay for play corruption defendant, he lied about his real estate deal where he got special favors. I could go on, but anyone with half a brain would have enouh evidence now to know that all human beings lie, and politicians lie even more.

[redqueen]

82. *sigh*... yes, everyone tells lies sometimes.

The difference (and this is NOT rocket science here)... is WHY they lie... and HOW they do it.

Hillary's evolving lies about her trip to Bosnia is an education in itself.

[Cronus Protagonist]

84. So they're BOTH liars, you just don't like HIllary's STYLE of lying

Or what? The content is more egregious than lying about your minister, your financial parners? What?

[redqueen]

85. No... I don't like that she chose to back up the White House's lies about Iraq.

For me, that's the one that stands out above all the rest.

She was out there spreading the White House's lies about Iraq... 10 months AFTER the war started.

And this was on top of her backing up their lie about Al Qaeda having ties to Iraq in her IWR speech.


The unbelivably horrible way she handled her evolving Bosnia lies was bad enough... but backing up the White House on their lies about Iraq? That I can't dismiss.

[Cali_Democrat]

93. Sigh...You don't know when to post the Nelson HA HA (shakes head)

Your supposed to post it when something bad happens to someone or a group of people you don't like.

[cliffordu]

22. K AND R!!!

:kick:

[L0oniX]

24. Smoke em if ya got em...

[rinsd]

25. Parts of this story have already been debunked, why does the author rehash it?

Here's the info

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/the-nuanced-tru.html

Here's where Clinton actually got the story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wqpEt_CdBk&e

Counterpunch...full of shit as usual.

[Better Believe It]

35. Because The Story Is True!

Perhaps you ought to read your own links before claiming Hillary told the truth!

[rinsd]

36. I stated that parts of the story have been debunked.

I even posted the source for her story.

To claim she is lying for relaying a story illustrating the problems with our health care system is ridiculous.

Those of us who have been around have seen this before.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5420513

[mythyc]

49. 3 links to your own thread here.... desparate much?

I saw amidst its tumbleweeds that you even kicked it coz no one was listening.

we are the hollow men
we are the stuffed men...

...not with a bang but a whimper

:eyes:

pssst, don't care about your reply, economic that ignore button. helps sift out the loonies

[stillcool]

39. I don't know how anyone can say..

she was lying. She repeated a story told to her by the Sheriff Deputy. He did not have his facts straight, and in her re-telling of the story she did not have her facts straight..which pissed off the hospital..and rightly so. But to say she lied is just not right. The only thing I can see that she is guilty of is having piss-poor campaign people who don't check the facts before she gives speeches.

[Better Believe It]

42. Piss Poor Campaign People = Piss Poor White House Staff?

Will Hillary blame her White House staff for her false statements and claims if she somehow becomes President?

[stillcool]

45. I'm blaming Hillary's campaign ...

I don't know who she's blaming. I just hate this piddly bullshit parsing what constitutes a lie. There is plenty of shit to criticize Senator Clinton about, but to constantly insist that she is blatantly lying when she obviously is not is distracting and just stupid.

[mythyc]

53. one can blame her campaign for much

but on the one hand consider how incompetent a leader and judge of character that makes her (as if we didn't know, hinging her bets on slick willy :rofl: ); on the other, she shoulder's plenty of blame. sniper fire = pure lie and she damn well knew it. same goes for breaking her *signed* FL/MI pledge in tandem with the official statement "to honor the DNC's nomination calendar" (these were her words Hillary hedgers, so don't give us any of that campaigning B.S.), and the "Noble Lie" that she had read the IRW report when she never did. the OP didn't do her history of lies justice if anything....

[stillcool]

89. I guess it depends on ...

what a person views as important or relevant. There are plenty of facts with which to make a case against Hillary Clinton. I prefer to stay clear of innuendo based on a false-hood.

[madrchsod]

28. she had name recognition and a 20% lead going into iowa

iowa was to the beginning of her destiny of becoming the first woman president but she failed and she has no one to blame but herself...not her advisors, the media, her husband,or edwards or obama.

hillary did have it all but for some reason she could not accept the fact that many of us wanted more from her. maybe this is all she had to give.

we will have to wait and see who wins and who walks away..i have my preference but no matter either one of them can beat the what ever that is republicans accepted as their candidate

[rinsd]

30. Clinton never had a 20 pt lead in Iowa and Obama's name recognition was 90% by Iowa.

Only discredited ARG had her as high as 14 pts up.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/ia/iowa_democratic_caucus-208.html#polls

[crankychatter]

34. It's not "horse shit" anymore

It's a "gift for fiction."

[mtnsnake]

41. If Hillary's speeches are horseshit, then Obama's speeches could fill a sewage treatment plant

[Better Believe It]

43. For Example .....

I haven't seen anything posted yet pointing out any fabrications by Obama.

Where's the beef?

[boppers]

51. Yo, Selma.

It'll come up, be prepared.

[jackson_dem]

59. Typical: Obamites never "see" anything bad about O that is documented

[BigDDem]

72. Heard about the Kennedy money?

Guess not....

:rofl:

[BenDavid]

47. the biggest lie of this campaign is saying obama is the better of

the candidates and with a willing whoremedia selling him like they did bush in 2000 to an uninformed public. It will be hard for obama to win without the strong support of hrc supporters and they too see obama is nothing more then a puff daddy and it will be hard for him to gather support from hrc supporters.

It will be hard for people to support obama knowing that he and his campaign played the race card against Hillary and then blamed her. Obama does not even believe his own words because if he had he would have fired Jesse Jr when he played the racial card against HRC in janaury. Obama can give a good speech but his words are nothing more then bullshit.

[mythyc]

55. you say all that, but all i hear is

[TLM]

56. Sounds racist?

"obama is nothing more then a puff daddy"


First mclame's people call him tiger woods, and now you call him puff daddy?



"Obama can give a good speech but his words are nothing more then bullshit."

How sad of a candidate is Hillary is she is being so soundly beaten by bullshit?

[DerekJ]

70. How sad of a candidate is Hillary is she is being so soundly beaten by bullshit?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[hfojvt]

58. Counterpunch, although it has some good articles

is a site that hates Democrats.

Just wait until after the convention, they will spend twice as much time bashing the Democratic nominee as they do bashing McCain.

[Better Believe It]

60. Try To Stay On Topic!

If you don't like the message attack the messenger!

Your post appears to be a diversion.

I don't think anyone likes or agrees with all of the authors and articles in CounterPunch, the Nation, the Progressive and a host of other liberal/radical publications so try to stay on subject!

Have you found links to all of the obvious "big lies" and fabrications Obama has made in his campaign? If you have, why not start a post?

[catgirl]

61. And she hunted with her dad

Clinton told this bit of info. to Wisconsin voters. Somehow I doubt it's true.

[Better Believe It]

63. I Thought Hillary Went Duck Hunting With Elmer Fudd!

And shot a silly wabbit by mistake!

[Evergreen Emerald]

62. so, despite the fact that the media has been proved to LIE about Clinton

and that those things you mentioned HAPPENED. You continue to spew your lies and distortions about Clinton, despite the truth.


I guess that makes this post horseshit.

[mtnsnake]

66. Yet another thread that proves that DU has become another voice of the Right Wing hate machine

[Better Believe It]

67. Do You Also Think That Obama Is Part Of That Right Wing Hate Machine

Ya .... sure.

[mtnsnake]

69. Nope I never said that. Wake the fuck up and read it again. Read it twice if that's what it takes

[catgirl]

68. That is a LOL statement

as usual.

[wowimthere]

71. Every time I look at her speak she reeks of insincerity... it's almost as bad as looking at...

Bush lie. I don't see how people can vote for someone who was dumb enough to vote for a war authorization without reading it first. She was briefed? People who vote for her are throwing their vote to the status quo. It will be business as usual.

[dchill]

77. Technically, the proper term is effluvium.

effluvium

Pronunciation: \e-ˈflü-vē-əm\

1: an invisible emanation; especially : an offensive exhalation or smell
2: a by-product especially in the form of waste

[GoldieAZ49]

78. Obama's speeches are eloquent horse shit

great delivery but still horse shit

[wowimthere]

83. Obama's speeches more substantive... He spoke against the war. she lied about her vote.

Maybe voting for war and lying about what that vote was doesn't matter to you. Maybe you should talk to a war veteran. You may change your mind.

[redqueen]

79. BOLD-faced... it's BOLD.

Argh. It's no big deal when I see it in a post... but jeez... x(

[Liquorice]

88. No it's actually bald-faced. nt

[redqueen]

90. Actually they're both wrong... but bold-faced is older than bald-faced.

Neener. :P

[DemGa]

91. Article is straight out of the dirty BO playbook

"Obama Camp Memo on Clinton “Misleading” Voters"

http://thepage.time.com/obama-camp-memo-on-clinton-misleading-voters/

[Better Believe It]

92. Thanks For The Link

It's worse than I had realized. Hillary is an habitual liar. I don't see anything dirty about that playbook. It all seems to be well documented.