No Democrat who voted for the Iraq War will be President

[Recursion]

At this point, I'm not going to justify this.

I'm not even going to rationalize this, for those to whom this is irrational.

I'm simply going to point out that Truman was right: given the choice between a Republican and someone who votes like one, Americans will choose the real thing.

John Kerry was better than Bush in a million ways. But he squandered every God-damned one of them by voting for that war.

You cannot run as the opposition if you explicitly enable the team in power.

Just a reminder, for those of you who have forgotten how much the war still impacts America.

[GarbagemanLB]

1. Hillary supporters: "but, but, this is BUSH's war!!!"

Yeah, a war he never would have been able to wage without certain Democrats in the Senate and House.

[Zachstar]

3. Let us stop calling them Hillbots

Seriously we need to start revving this thing down. Time spent insulting each other is better spent phonebanking which raises interest overall towards the GE.

[GarbagemanLB]

10. Fine.

[ClassWarrior]

12. Amen. To you and to the OP.

:toast:

NGU.

[Zachstar]

15. Thanks it is just that we need the Clinton supporters to start thinking about the Congress seats!

If we can start to move away from this destructive race and start moving towards the congress seats we will be able to come together to face the real issue. Congressional Campaigns.

[FogerRox]

34. Right on, way too much name calling

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Most Congressional Democrats Voted Against The War

Tell 'em that and they usually look like they've been hit in the head with a shovel.

[Recursion]

11. I'm big on personal responsibility: let's turn that question back against us

Why is it that "most Congressional Democrats voted against the war" wasn't enough to prevent it?

[MannyGoldstein]

25. Because We Had A Minority In Congress? [nt]

[Recursion]

27. And why was that? (nt)

[MannyGoldstein]

28. Because, As Harry Truman Said

"When a Democrat acting like a Republican runs against a Republican, the Republican will win everytime"

And they did, mostly.

[Recursion]

29. Then I think we're in agreement

Sad to say

[MannyGoldstein]

30. Why Is That Sad? [nt]

[Recursion]

32. Because the alleged leadership of our party is convinced that to win...

...they have to move to the right of most Republicans.

There's the irony.

Dean could have won where Kerry could not win. And I love Kerry on a personal level.

Why could Dean have won?

Because as my redneck friends keep saying "at least I know where I stand with him."

No one doubts where Dean stood on the war, on the tax cuts, on NCLB, on anything.

He made a stand and he stood by it.

God damn it why is this so hard to understand?

J Random Voter in Parma doesn't want you to triangulate: he wants you to stand by your decisions.

That is why no Democrat who voted for this war (and, yes, voting for the IWR was "voting for this war". Period. I'm a vet of this war and don't even fucking try to tell me the IWR was anything but a vote for it) will ever be President. Period.

[MannyGoldstein]

36. Thank You For Your Service

While I disagree with this war, I deeply appreciate that you, and others, will volunteer to serve in the armed forces - sometimes we really do need a strong military.

I agree with everything you say - and I hope that you're correct that no 'Democrat' who voted for this war will be elected. We need actual Democrats who want to do the right thing - not conniving swine looking for more power.

[msongs]

2. what about people like obama who vote to enable, support and fund the war??? nt

[GarbagemanLB]

5. Once the bus is in the ditch, there is no easy solution to get it out.

[Recursion]

6. Maybe he can't, too.

I don't know.

I do know that a Senator who vote for it, be that Senator's name Clinton, Kerry, or Edwards, will never be President.

[keep_it_real]

13. The litmus test; I think you're right

[Zachstar]

7. That spin wont work I am sorry.

However, The simple fact that Clinton could have aided the end to this before it even started means that she is the one who enabled the all important start to this thing.

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Huge Difference

Before we attacked, there was a good option and a bad option.

After we attacked, there were only awful options.

[Recursion]

17. After 9/11, there was a 48-hour candlelight vigil in Tehran

Don't tell me there were only "awful" options.

We were frankly in the best position any great power has ever been in.

Our alleged party leaders stuck their fingers in the wind, made the same short-sighted analysis the administration did, thought this would be a short, easy, popular war, and voted for it.

Kerry didn't lose by being too liberal. He lost by being manifestly calculating and unprincipled, and voting for a war he didn't believe in.

God damn it. Americans aren't stupid, however much people want them to be. People knew what Kerry was doing: he voted for a war he didn't believe in, because he thought it would be politically expedient.

Well, guess what? I'd rather have the moron who actually believed in it than the cynical jackass who sent my ass (yes, quite literally, my ass) to go die for it when he didn't believe in it.

No Democrat who voted for this war will ever be President.

Sorry.

It's just a fact.

[gateley]

9. There were SEVERAL of us who were watching the Patraeus hearings

all day today. I'd venture to guess none of us have forgotten how much this war still impacts America.

And if you'll glance at my sig line, you'll see it's uppermost on my mind.

EDIT to add -- I feel your post is insulting to those of us on DU -- regardless of whom we support. We ALL care DEEPLY about this war.

[Zachstar]

14. It is time for the troops to come home.

They did not make a good case for us to continue in Iraq today.

However, When Obama gets into office we need to keep letting him know that this is primary we want him to be working on exiting Iraq from day 1!

[gateley]

20. Well the SFRC essentially is saying

no more - we're not buying it -- we're at the point of deciding the best way to bring our troops home. So I'm guessing he's of like mind. Plus, he said that on his first day in office, he'd call in the Joint Chiefs, etc. and get a plan for withdrawal underway.

And, I'm sure we'll keep letting him know! :)

[AtomicKitten]

16. Shout out to all the Dems that have honestly retracted and regretted that vote.

It is a freak twist of fate that the only Democrat that still clings to that vote is Hillary, and it is pretty clear it is Political Calculation 101.

Eff that. I am THRILLED that we will have a president that not only didn't vote for that POS war from which much evil has emanated, but he opposed it out loud BEFORE the IWR, when it mattered, and that matters to me.

I am a happy camper. :hi:

[Cha]

24. Obama's speech before the IWR vote

is what got me totally in his camp..I wish I would have known about it sooner but I know now.

<snips>

"What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income - to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics. Now let me be clear - I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the President today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings. You want a fight, President Bush"?

http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php

[AtomicKitten]

41. His speech showed him to be wise and prescient.

:hi:

[Yes We Did]

18. Hillary Clinton is John Kerry Par Deux

[Recursion]

19. John Kerry's presidential chances were killed when he said "Aye"

You cannot run against a war you voted for. Period.

I fought in this war. Well, I scraped dead people up off the ground in this war.

You either opposed this war or you supported it, period.

I don't care what the James Carvilles' of the world think:

The American people aren't stupid. They know what Kerry, Clinton, and Edwards did.

[jobycom]

21. Good thing none did, since there wasn't a vote on the war.

Anyway, I think you are right. At the way we are going, no Democrat will be elected for another sixteen years or so, if there's anything to be elected to.

I won't justify either, either. If you don't already understand it by now, you're the problem, not the solution.

[Mooney]

22. It's a fundamental design flaw.

It tripped up Kerry, and HRC's not faring too well with it either. The only way you can be on record as voting for the IWR and run as the opposition is if you're making the case that we need to invade more countries. Otherwise, it's just not believable.

The fact that Obama doesn't have that on his record is an advantage. It doesn't make a difference if that's by choice or by circumstance. The fact of the matter is that the vote isn't there and that argument can't be used against him in the GE. That frees him up to run as the opposition.

[Recursion]

23. I'm an Obama-bot and I imagine he *would have* voted for the IWR

The fact is, he didn't.

Hillary did, and he didn't.

Want a comparison? Ted Bundy killed 35 coeds and I didn't. Maybe to some of you that is simply an accident of history; to me it is a meaningful distinction. Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, and John Edwards all voted for an immoral, illegal, and unjust war. Barack Obama did not.

Fuck anybody who doesn't see the difference: an honest "fuck you" straight from the heart of a veteran of this war.

[Mooney]

31. You don't have to convince me, believe me.

Except I don't actually believe he would have voted for the war, myself. He's on record as coming out publicly against it at a time when the prevalent view about opposing the war was something along the lines of "Shut the fuck up, traitor." I'm surprised at how many people here seem to have forgotten this.

The fact that Obama stood by Reverend Wright when Craven Politics 101 says that she should have put as much daylight as possible between himself and the Reverend shows that he's not exactly averse to taking unpopular stands on principle. I think the people who advance the argument that he would have voted for the war have to believe that, mostly because they support a candidate who did vote for the war and they have to downplay that at all costs.

Thanks for your service in that bullshit, unnecessary war. I'm glad you came back alive. And I'm glad that it looks like you may have the opportunity to vote for a president who was always realistic about it.

[Recursion]

33. Yeah, actually the Wright episode has completely improved my image of Obama

Hell, maybe he would have done the right thing. It's no longer impossible for me to imagine, given his race speech. Frankly, it's likely in my mind.

[dansolo]

35. Do you really find it hard to believe he would have voted against it?

Dick Durbin, the senior senator from IL, voted against it. I believe that his choice would have carried a lot of weight with Obama if he were a senator at the time.

[Recursion]

39. Dansolo, I try not to get my hopes up

But, yes, all things considered I think he would have voted against it. Because all things considered I think he is ultimately a man of conscience.

[Mooney]

37. I really admired him for that.

I was very impressed with that at the time, and the more time that passes, the more I feel like he did the right thing.

I have no problem believing he would have voted correctly on the IWR. I mean, if people can conclude that he would have voted for the war based on nothing more than guessing, then I certainly reserve the right to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Cha]

42. I don't think Obama would have

voted for the IWR..not with this speech to his credit as a State Senator on Oct 2, 2002.


<snip>

"My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain. I don't oppose all wars.

After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again. I don't oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism.

What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income - to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics. Now let me be clear - I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the President today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings. You want a fight, President Bush?"

http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php

[Recursion]

26. And let me clarify: I would give an arm to have Clinton as a President over McCain

Really.

However much I bitch about her, I would give my right arm and my left nut to have her as President if the option was McCain.

But it is not to be. A Democrat who voted for this war will not be President. That is simply a fact.

[unkachuck]

38. correct....n/t....and, kick

[Orangepeel]

40. it's not inconceivable that McCain will have a public meltdown and any D could win

but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

[BenDavid]

43. well hell at least it is 50 50. But po old obama still bringing up the

fact he was against this war because he lets everyone know he gave a speech in 2002 that said he did....But obama let me ask ya there brother, Where was your big anti-war speech in 2003? Where was your big anti-war speech in 2004, at Kerry's convention? Where was your big anti-war speech in 2005?
Where was your big anti-war speech in 2006? Where was your anti-war filibuster in 2007? Was stopping the war worth standing up, Barack? Where was your anti-war filibuster in 2008? Was stopping the war worth standing up, Barack?

Perhaps HRC was correct about obama all along and she was asking, "If he's got more than a 2002 speech -where is it?"

[SIMPLYB1980]

44. Good questions, and also this.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/obama_foreign_policy_adviser_r.php

Whats up with that?

[Martin Eden]

45. No Republican who voted for the war will be president either.

That's a result I can live with.

[samsingh]

46. i tend to agree

[blm]

47. Kerry won. RNC stole it for Bush and DNC let them .

BTW - Kerry was standing up constantly against Bush's DECISION To go to war. The general public knew that from the debates.

BTW - can you make a case where a Dem who DIDN'T vote for IWR would have won in 2004, when the election PROCESS in most states was already controlled by the RNC since 2000?