A question for all those who still take issue with Rev. Wright's sermons:

[MercutioATC]

Do you really disagree with what he says, or is your argument that his statements could cause strategic issues for Obama in the general election?

If your answer is the former, have you actually seen the cherry-picked statements in context?

I know they're not the convenient 5-second clips the media provides, but if you want to intelligently debate Wright's much-publicized comments, you should really see them in context. Take the 15 or 20 minutes and judge for yourself. As a Democrat...as somebody who believes that ALL people are created equal...as somebody who believes that our government has made mistakes in the past and continues to make mistakes...as somebody who believes in the basic principle of cause and effect...do you really disagree with what Wright says?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMbeVQj6Lw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ

[woolldog]

1. Mercutio add this link too:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4805737136221962023

[leftofcool]

2. Both

And I don't cherry pick. Why do you Obama supporters insist that we watch this on youtube? Why can't you invest a little money and watch those sermons for yourself? We did so we could see for ourselves. And yes, I have a real problem with statements like "Black girls get raped while White girls give it up."

[anonymous171]

3. I don't remember that quote. I remember that Natalie Holloway quote though.

And that was about Missing White Girl Syndrome.

[leftofcool]

5. Why don't you order the entire set of sermons?

They are available on the church web site.

[anonymous171]

8. You want to tell me which one contains the offending quote?

I want the "Black women get raped, white women give it up" quote. VERBATIM. You better not be paraphrasing.

[leftofcool]

10. Rev Wright's greatest hits

[anonymous171]

11. So you were paraphrasing?

[leftofcool]

14. Just as I thought

Your bubble might burst if you actually sit down and see the sermons in full context. Easier for your to rely on You Tube so you can continue to claim that everything Wright says has been taken out of context via snippets.

[anonymous171]

15. I asked for a specific sermon.

[leftofcool]

18. It is a collection

It is called Rev Wright's Greatest Sermons. Spans about 25- 30 years. Pay for them yourself, do your own research on them........or not

[anonymous171]

21. You seriously watched all of them? What are you, a fox news researcher or something?

[leftofcool]

30. No not at all.

It is simply that we don't believe anything we see or hear in the media and especially not on You Tube of all the stupid places. Personally, anyone who relies on sound bites from You Tube for their information in order to make judgements about any situation or anyone is just silly. I prefer being well infomed

[MercutioATC]

7. If I remember that quote correctly, I agree with the sentiment of it, too.

For every hundred poor children of minority families that go missing, maybe one gets national press.

Give us a missing wealthy white girl, and the media runs it 24/7 for months.

[MercutioATC]

4. You want me to invest in a plane ticket to attend a sermon myself?

Only if his church has industrial-strength lightning rods...I'm atheist.

What's wrong with asking (not insisting) that people get a sense of context by watching something on YouTube?

[leftofcool]

6. If you have no problem relying on 20 second sound bytes

then so be it. We prefer full context and you need a plane ticket to order something from a web site?

[MercutioATC]

9. I provided 10-minute "sound bytes"...and I wasn't aware that the sermons could be ordered online...

...you failed to mention that in your post.

[leftofcool]

13. Really?

"Why can't you invest a little money and watch those sermons for yourself? We did so we could see for ourselves."

[MercutioATC]

16. Where does that say anything about ordering sermons online?

For all I know, you "invest(ed) a little money" in travel expenses to attend the services.

You obviously meant ordering them, but I certainly didn't get that from your post.

(on edit) If you'll direct me to where you ordered the sermons and which ones you took issue with, I'll gladly order them.

[leftofcool]

20. The church web site should still have them

it is where we got ours and as far as I know, the only people who have them. At least, I know of no one else who carries them, unless the UCC headquarters has them but I have not checked.

[MercutioATC]

23. I'm looking there now...all I see is his "35th anniversary set"...

I'll Google it and see what I come up with. What's the name of the set you have?

(on edit) Just looked upstream...got the name...I'll look for it

(on edit again) It doesn't appear if that title is still for sale...if you can reference a particular sermon or topic, I might be able to find it somewhere.

[leftofcool]

31. It is called "The Best of Rev Wright"

It is an entire collection. We ordered the set right after all the controversy hit. There was an avatar on their site that you could click to take you to an order page. If it is gone, the church may have pulled the set due to the controversy. I don't think any of the sermons are available in on one single CD. You might also check on of the major news stations to see if you can still get one from them. I know CNN had a set because A. Cooper specifically said he watched them all himself.

[shayes51]

33. Thank you.

[SunsetDreams]

12. Thank you Mercutio

I admire you trying, sadly though it seems we have people here who want to crucify someone for roughly 2 minutes of their life.

It's all about hating Obama for something someone else said in a 30 second clip, just another excuse to hate him.

I imagine all the people complaining are perfect.

[ClayZ]

17. Thanks K and R

[Rhiannon12866]

19. K&R. I agree, context is everything.

And I think that the overblown media coverage of the "offending" sound bytes is much ado about not much. Thanks for your post... :-)

[2rth2pwr]

22. In context he is still saying the same thing.

What I don't get (actually I do, it's just a figure of speech) is the cries of "it's been taken out of context! If only people could see the whole thing!

FOX news is just playing this loop and making him sound bad"


and at the same time "watch the whole thing, and tell me you don't agree that we had it coming" "come on you know our country has done bad things, he is

speaking truth" "if you can't see the reality of what he is saying then boy, you've got your head buried in the sand"

[MercutioATC]

24. So, from the two clips I posted, you disagree with what?

1) "God damn America" as a response to our treatment of people like native Americans, slaves and Japanese Americans during WWII?

2) "Chickens coming home to roost" as a response to the effects of our treatment of other countries?


With what do you take issue?

[2rth2pwr]

25. I object strongly to both and the electorate in the fall,

if Obama is the nominee, will too.

[MercutioATC]

27. Fair enough.

I can understand the idea that the statements could cause strategic problems in the general, but I really don't get how anybody could personally disagree with Wright's contentions...this country has harmed many peoples and it seems evident to me that our problems in the world are due, at least in part, to the way we've chosen to interact with other nations.

[Usrename]

32. I don't know anyone like that who would vote Democratic anyways.

I don't anything is lost there. The third of the electorate that doesn't associate with either party, the independents, aren't going to be swayed by some obscure ideological construct like: "do you agree with Obama's old pastor?" They will be swayed a whole lot more by party unity. They'll go with the candidate that they percieve is the strongest, and that will be determined in their minds by which candidate commands the strongest following. They don't really have any strong political bent, which is why they aren't registered with either party.

This is why Obama will be the better candidate in a general election. The Republicans would gain a whole lot in the unity department if Clinton were the opposing candidate. They will have a much more difficult time trying to unite against Obama. I don't know if you've heard any of the Obama hate being spewed at the McCain events. Like the "you can have your Tiger Woods" comment. It doesn't seem to be going over all that well, even among those people that clapped cheered when Clinton was called a bitch during one of his Q&A sessions.

It's going to be a very bad year for Republicans of all stripes.

[Undercurrent]

26. Neither

I agree with the substance of many of Reverend Wright's statements, and I'm not offended by his style either. Although I can understand how many white folks could be. I was married to a black man, and attended his family's church. Reverend Wright's style is not all that unusual. Many black churches have a rich history of fire breathing preachers tossing lightening bolts from the pulpit, and mix religion, and social issues.

That is why it made so much sense for Obama to address this issue in a racial context. Sunday morning is very much segregated. Most white people have little idea what goes on in black churches. People now have a kind of back wards reverence for Dr King, but I remember at the time he was preaching, many white people were outraged by his sermons. Especially as he spoke out more and more against the war in Vietnam, and poverty in America.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. Just my own perspective.

[Maddy McCall]

28. Glad to see you open a topic on this.

I appreciated the conversation we had earlier on this, so I'll just repost what I posted in that conversation:

No personal objection. But, hell, I attend black churches here, go to black funerals, (used to drink at black bars, when I drank) so none of that is alien to me.

I do think it could do Obama political harm. I have no personal objection, however. I live in the deep south, where I'm in close quarters with my black neighbors and friends, where blacks make up over 66% of the population of the town where I live, which is headed by a black mayor. I don't view this topic from afar...I'm right here in the middle of it.

And I agree with 80% of what I hear black preachers here saying. And I don't have any personal objection to what Wright said--when it's placed in context of the entire sermon.

McClurkin is another topic...I do have personal objections to what he says.

(And I appreciate the civility in my and your exchange. I wish more people were willing to speak openly like this at DU. We might learn a little from each other. :) )

[Maddy McCall]

29. Oh, and K/R

in hopes that this thread remains civil.

[Window]

34. K/R.

:kick: