Hillary Supporters: How much did the Donnie McClurkin story affect your choice of candidate?

[jgraz]

I'm curious how big an issue this is to Hillary supporters. My cousin and his husband cite this as THE reason for their support of Hillary against Obama. It's certainly one of the top three reasons why my support for him remains relatively tepid.

[democrattotheend]

1. Add a few options

Add "I am an Obama supporter but was disappointed about this" and "I am an Obama supporter and don't care about McClurkin at all" or something like that. People want to vote in the polls whether or not it applies to them, so if you don't give Obama supporters a place to vote they will vote anyway and mess up the poll.

[jgraz]

6. Done

[Life Long Dem]

27. You sound disappointed. But please don't go around attacking other Obama supporters.

Like me for one. You threw one of my post in my face declaring the site untrustworthy. But you couldn't have read it because if you did you would have known the website I got it from was not the source. The website post articles from The N.Y Times, and the Huffington Post, as well as the New York Post, but attacks will only catch up to you.

[democrattotheend]

41. It wasn't an attack

I was trying to encourage you to find a more credible source so your post would have more credibility. By using a right wing source you make it easier for the Clinton supporters to just dismiss it.

[maddiejoan]

2. I was at one time struggling on who to support

rather then Kucinich, back when it looked like a 3 person race.

I decided on Hillary as my first choice and Edwards as my second choice --McClurkin is what got Obama bounced down to my last choice (where he has remained)

[kwenu]

9. I hate to be a pest on this, but if McClurkin is your issue what is your stance on DOMA?

[maddiejoan]

12. That Hillary has laid out a specific plan of action

to achieve full equality in marriage that has worked in nations all over the world --

--and that Obama hasn't.

[kwenu]

20. Where is this plan? And I am very serious. I want to see it.

[maddiejoan]

26. I'd suggest you go look at any number of her Townhall meetings where she addresses this.

It's all readily available for you to see.

She often compares her position on DOMA to how same-sex marriage was achieved in Canada.

[kwenu]

31. Why doesn't she have this plan on her website? And how am I supposed to look at

a townhall meeting that has already happened? Is there video? Is this from some brief question and answer or did she spend a meeting laying it out?

[maddiejoan]

34. Here's the gist of her thinking

in this Washington Blade Interview

She also talks about trans-inclusion in ENDA
(which is vastly more important to me than marriage)

http://www.washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=16508

[jgraz]

10. It's why he was my second-to-last choice (guess who was last)

But I will say, he's grown in my eyes since then. I think he's smart enough to realize what a dumbass move that was.

From what I've seen in the past couple of months, I think the GLBT community will be pretty happy with President Obama.

[maddiejoan]

14. I hope you're right

I think LGBT rights won't budge an inch with Obama as President --

BUT that's a damned site better than going backwards on them with Grampy McShame

[jgraz]

he's already said he wants to dump DADT. That's a start.

[maddiejoan]

25. Read his Advocate interview

He says he can reasonably see it eliminated. He doesn't say he will promise to eliminate it or even if he can.

Sounds to me as if he is already hedging his bets against potential bigot-backlash.

This isn't a core issue for him --it's a disposable.

[jgraz]

28. Yep, like with most Dems, the GLBT community is an afterthought

I think we all should make some noise once he gets the nomination. He seems too intelligent to stick with such a backasswards viewpoint for long.

[maddiejoan]

30. As I said in another thread

on LGBT issues I give Obama a C plus --and I give Hillary a B minus.

[jgraz]

36. One thing I will say in their defense

While LGBT issues are important, we're currently faced with some pretty nasty problems that should realistically get more of their attention. I know they can do some things by executive fiat, but I don't see either one pushing through the repeal of DOMA ahead of ending the war, saving the economy, providing universal healthcare or combating global warming.

[maddiejoan]

37. I see Hillary

as a shade more likely, and part of that is her pragmatism.

[rodeodance]

3. stop calling out Hillary supporters. And based on your posts I do not

think your support for Obama is tipid!!

[jgraz]

7. Alert if you don't like it

And learn how to spell. Or at least cut and paste.

[DarienComp]

8. He's not doing anything of the kind.

[LittleClarkie]

59. It's not a call out if he's just asking them a question.

This would be a call out

"Hey Hillary supporters, get your heads out of your asses."

I generally reckon a call out includes some sort of insult.

It's tepid, btw.

[DJ13]

4. I hate modern politics

Its made people into single issue voters to the exclusion of everything else good candidates can accomplish.

Look at the GOP and abortion for an example.

We've become a very shallow society.

[DarienComp]

5. I think it's crazy to get upset over McClurkin while totally overlooking DADT and DOMA.

But, for the record, as an Obama supporter, I think McClurkin was a terrible misstep.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

11. Not to mention Clinton's numerous associations with homophobic clergy

Including the one she was paying $10000 a month as a consultant. I've argued until I'm blue in the face with these hypocritical Clinton supporters (and note that I don't put everyone who is upset about McClurkin in that category) to no avail. They come up with a bazillion excuses as to why her alliances are different and excusable.

[jgraz]

15. "homophobic clergy" is almost an oxymoron

[DarienComp]

18. do you mean a 'redundancy'?

[jgraz]

19. yes. "Smart jgraz" is apparently an oxymoron

:dunce:

[DarienComp]

21. At least you can spell.

:toast:

[jgraz]

33. There is that.

[damonm]

23. And you can use the word "oxymoron' in a sentence.

:headbang:

[LittleClarkie]

63. Not really

Kind of depends on the denomination.

ELCA Lutherans and American Baptists are both rather liberal in their thinking.

And here's a group of welcoming and affirming Baptists:

http://www.wabaptists.org/

[DarienComp]

17. I was also impressed by Obama calling out homophobia at Ebenezer Baptist Church.

[Solon]

13. Where's the "Pissed off at Obama, but oppose Hillary" option?

Its not so much that I support Obama that I don't oppose his nomination as strongly as I oppose Hillary's.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

16. jgraz, you should show this to your cousin

Hillary's Donnie McClurkins

[jgraz]

22. I will, but I'm not sure if it will help.

I think the McClurkin story got a lot of play in the gay community and people made their decisions right there. Since then, everything that Obama did was viewed through a lens of assumed homophobia.

The source of this poll was the realization that the only Hillary supporters I know are same-sex couples. I'm very close with three couples and they're all rabidly pro-Hillary.

[DarienComp]

29. my BF and I are for Obama.

And we get yelled at all the time for it by our other gay friends.

[jgraz]

32. So my impression is correct?

It really seems to me that the GLBT community is overwhelmingly pro-Hillary. And it doesn't seem that she's that much better on "gay" issues.

[DarienComp]

38. Truthfully, I can't swear that it's "overwhelmingly" pro-Hillary...

We don't really hang out much in the "scene"; we're kind of homebodies. I do think that we (my bf and I) are in the minority as Obama supporters. Why that is I can't say, but if I'd have to guess, I'd say that some of it is due to McClurkin, some of it is due to the fact the Hillary is more willing to pander to us, and I think some of it is straight-up diva worship.

On edit: just so that there's no misunderstanding, the reasons that I give above apply to only to my own experience with my personal friends, and shouldn't be taken to mean the entire gay community or anything like that.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

39. What I like about this particular blog

Is that the author is gay and he fingers the Clinton operatives in the Human Rights Campaign and other GLBT orgs who were pushing the McClurkin issue on the internet. The torrent we saw here on DU and other lefty sites was the result of an orchestrated effort. I'll give the Clinton campaign one thing, they're awfully good at getting their keyboard warriors out. It's about the only thing that campaign has managed to do with competence.

[Solon]

40. That's a bunch of paranoid fucking bullshit...

I swear, I just roll my eyes at this shit! Repeat a lie often enough, and it becomes truth, to you at least. :eyes:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

42. Sorry, but I calls it like I sees it.

If associating with a homophobe is a bad thing (and it is) then it's bad for EVERY candidate who does it. So far not one of you Clinton supporting hypocrites has provided anything resembling a valid reason why it's okay for her to proudly display endorsements from and give $10000 a month consulting contracts to known homophobic bigots.

[Solon]

43. See? Its bullshit like thinking I'm a HILLARY supporter that really makes me not...

take you seriously. You know, you can be pissed off at Obama and the bullshit he pulled without supporting Hillary? Its called nuance. I've been accused of being a Hillary supporter since the whole McClurkin thing broke. Its as laughable then as it is now. Why the fuck should I support her, hell, technically I support Obama!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5169124

Its pretty sad when some of you are so fucking blind to our own candidate's faults that they will do absolutely ANYTHING to defend him, even lie.

ON EDIT: I'm frankly glad I don't judge the candidate by most of his supporters on DU, most of you are assholes.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

44. If you're not one then it's not about you.

It's pretty sad when some of you are so fucking blinded by anger and outrage that you can't see that no one here is pleased that McClurkin performed for Obama.

[Solon]

45. Really? No one?

Here's a small sample of responses from many Obama supporters, some actually celebrated that McClurkin wasn't being pulled. Granted, quite a few of these are now no longer among us, but quite a few are still here, unfortunately. At least you aren't on this list, yet.

Here was a late poster who thought Homosexuality is a choice.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3628257#3629015

Here's another one, it WAS deleted, but the post itself said "I have nothing against Homos, but..."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3628257#3629769

Here's another that could have been posted by a simple disruptor, but compared Homosexuality to Alcoholism

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3634480#3634948

Here's a guy who is mocking LGBT people's feelings towards McClurkin.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3634875

Here's a poster, who, in a fit of total insensitivity, calls the whole McClurkin fiasco, "that gay thing".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3966281#3966425

Here's one that claimed all "the gays" are voting for Hillary.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3652664#3653448

Same poster, said that if he were Obama, he'd tell "the gays" to go to hell.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3659741#3659811

Same poster, AGAIN! This time rejoicing that the GLBT protestors didn't disrupt the applause from McClurkin's appearance at the tour. In fairness, this is probably before he knew the content of McClurkin's speech at the end of the tour.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3656474

Here's a different poster who calls those who are against McClurkin headlining this event "left wing exclusionists"! Very nice.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3642714

Then there is this poster, who was big enough to try to reach an "understanding" with GLBT folks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3635367

Then turns around and uses a new catchphrase when talking to GLBT folks: "snaps for drama"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3650989#3653719

This poster also called the fiasco a case of "ruffled feathers":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3653335#3654317

Yet another, "snaps for drama" post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3658191#3659348

Then this poster had the audacity of complaining about being called a bigot!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3658191#3659031

And then, last, but not least, a "I feel like spitting in some faces" post from this gracious poster.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3653335#3653806

Here's a beauty, a poster who thinks "former homosexuals" do exist, how quaint!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3645866#3646088

Oh, and this poster takes the cake, claiming not only that Obama isn't doing anything wrong, but that McClurkin isn't homophobic! I would be amused, if I wasn't so appalled.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3635072#3635188

Oh, on last thing, here is the beginning of an exchange with yet another poster, oddly enough, about Christianity and Homophobia, I found it odd because I was defending Christianity, and denouncing generalizations against it, but the poster in question was a Christian, while I'm not. I implore everyone to read this poster's posts, and my responses, to get the full context. Its a real :wtf: thing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3628257#3629007

Some of these posters were disruptors, but quite a few are long time posters who are still, tragically, members of this board. So please, justify this.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

47. Well I'd link you to the poll where a member

Referred to religious African-American women as "shit in the chicken salad" of the Democratic party and asked people to vote on questions so offensive and racist that the people who voted in agreement with them were banned. But that post has been deleted. As have the ones I saw where attendees of the gospel concert were called things like "thugs" and a "violent mob". Wonder why they'd be characterized that way? Hmmm?

You have spent some time compiling a list of people demonstrating remarkable insensitivity to the issue. I stand corrected in my previous assertion. However, it is not my place, nor my duty to "justify" anything that was said there because they are not my views. Perhaps you can PM those who have not been tombstoned to get some insight.

I stand by what I say about the Clinton campaign operatives and the hypocrisy of Clinton supporters (and others) who refuse to hold her accountable for her homophobic associations while raking Obama over the coals for his. I notice you haven't responded to that. How about you do some justifying?

[Solon]

48. I already told you, I'm NOT a Hillary supporter, so what the fuck should I justify?

Did I ever claim no Hillary supporter is a racist? Did I ever claim that racists don't exist here on DU? Fuck no! This board is full of bigoted assholes, it doesn't matter who the fuck they support, or even that they are members of the Democratic party, they should not pollute this board with their filth. I don't coddle with evil like this, I don't see why anyone on DU should tolerate it.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

49. Then we have no argument. Peace. nt

[Solon]

56. We do about the "operative" shit, just a bunch of paranoia...

Hell, I was accused of being on Hillary's campaign, so were most DUers who got pissed at the McClurkin flap. Indeed most of us weren't even Hillary supporters, I would say most supported either Kucinich(like me, at the time), or Edwards, in fact, some of us harbor some resentment from both Obama and Hillary supporters who were saying its "just against Hillary and Obama". It was bullshit then and bullshit now. Hell, a lot of us still don't support either candidate, others, like me, went to Obama for basically no other reason than he's not Hillary, and others went to Hillary. But to claim this was orchestrated is just stretching credibility to the breaking point.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

69. Just because you weren't part of an orchestrated effort doesn't mean there wasn't one

If you don't realize such things exist, then you are very unschooled in modern politics. Ever been on an "email blast" or "rapid response list"? That's what happened with the McClurkin thing. I got several of them and they were all from Hillary people. Funny how I never got any to "alert" me to her homophobic preacher associations.

[Cali_Democrat]

24. Who's McClurkin?

Sorry, I'm having trouble keeping up with all of his associations. Hopefully Obama will reject and denounce, or something like that.

One thing I've noticed about this election is that Obama has gotta make sure he knows everything about the people around him. He's gotta know everything they've done their entire lives, anything bad could be used against him.

If Obama talks to a random person on the street, he better know that persons whole life story. If there's something bad, that could be used against Obama. Shame on you Barack

This election apparently isn't about anything Obama said or did. No sir. It's about the folks around him

[Solon]

35. Here's a rundown...

McClurkin is a guy who claims to be "ex-gay" and is a Gospel Singer who was on Obama's "Embrace the change" tour in South Carolina.

Before the tour, the story broke that McClurkin said things like "Homosexuality is a curse", "Gays are going to kill our children", etc. Several Gay civil rights groups then asked Obama to bump McClurkin from the tour, Obama refused and said the guy was "only going to sing". As a concession, Obama put one pro-GLBT minister on the roster to speak before the concert began.

During the Concert, McClurkin was the Master of Ceremonies, and towards the end he had a half hour to preach his hatred of GLBT people, and proclaimed that "God saved me from Homosexuality".

Afterwards, Obama said that he disagreed with McClurkin, and even worse, like this:

The concert was to be the highlight of this outreach and while the crowd left excited, it was clear the campaign still regarded the controversy as complicated. Aides gave reporters a three-page memo detailing McClurkin's and Obama's views on gay rights that noted in capital letters "MCCLURKIN DOES NOT WANT TO CHANGE GAYS AND LESBIANS WHO ARE HAPPY WITH THEIR LIVES AND HAS CRITICIZED CHURCH LEADERS WHO DEMONIZE HOMOSEXUALS," with quotes detailing those statements from the singer.

The next paragraph then stated "OBAMA DOES NOT AGREE WITH MCCLURKIN'S VIEWS ON GAYS."

The caps lock is in the original Washington Post Article, here:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/10/29/post_159.html

[dsc]

46. I view it as part of a larger pattern

Obama has what I believe are dangerously naive views about Republicans. I fear he would compromise way too much. McClurkin is a symptom of that.

[PBS Poll-435]

50. ITA -

[dsc]

51. I have no idea what that means

[PBS Poll-435]

52. :-)

I totally agree.

[dsc]

54. ah makes sense thanks

[Clintonista2]

53. It's code

:shrug:

[PBS Poll-435]

55. LOL...

Nah...I was gonna say something in addition to ITA, but I changed my mind at the last minute!

[scheming daemons]

57. Ask the next 200 random people you meet "who is Donnie McClurkin?".....

...199 of them will not know.

And the 1 that remains was never going to vote for Obama anyway.

[PBS Poll-435]

58. Ah...so that makes it alright!

Hallelujah!

What they don't know can't hurt 'em right?

[scheming daemons]

66. No... it makes it irrelevant.

[PBS Poll-435]

67. Like I said....

What they don't know, can't hurt 'em!

[donheld]

60. I'm as gay as gay gets, but I'm so tried of hearing about McCrackin'

here at DU it's maddening. Yes I wish Obama had left McCrackin out of his campaign but there are so many things that are more important. There's also no proof Hillary would be any better on Gay issues.

On Edit: I'm also very weary of hearing I can't be a good gay guy if I support Obama.

[DarienComp]

61. totally agree.

[LittleClarkie]

62. Your sig pic is so appropriate to this forum

Itchy and Scratchy is a perfect metaphor for Obama and Hillary supporters on DU

[avrdream]

64. Donnie (and Barack's subsequent refusal to disavow him) lost BO my vote.

I have said it before: I won't vote for McCain but I'm writing Hillary in if Barack is the Dem nominee. He sold my people out.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

68. Hillary's Donnie McClurkins

http://citizenchris.typepad.com/citizenchris/2007/11/hillarys-donnie.html

Either you are unaware of her alliances or you are a big old hypocrite.

As for writing in Hillary and letting McInsane win, all I can say is...:puke:

[TheDonkey]

65. MCCLURKIN!!!!1!!!

:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: