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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:55 PM
Original message
NY Mag: Falling Out of Love With Bill
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 05:46 PM by Stephanie


I'm out of love, too. It was fun, Bill, but it's over.





http://nymag.com/news/imperialcity/45783/

Falling Out of Love With Bill
Could Democrats and Republicans be finding new common ground—in seeing the ugly truth about their erstwhile heroes?
By Kurt Andersen Published Apr 4, 2008

---snip---

For me and most of the people I know, the postpresidential love for Bill Clinton has evaporated completely and breathtakingly fast. No matter how many mosquito nets and microloans he helps supply to the Third World, I’m out of love. I found Bill Richardson’s endorsement of Obama two weeks ago especially gratifying not in spite of its fuck-you to his former patron but because of it.

And this swing of sentiment isn’t just some elite coastal phenomenon. According to NBC News/Wall Street Journal polling, from Clinton’s impeachment until the end of his presidency, his approval number never sank below 44 percent, but in the latest survey it’s down to 42 percent—and his “very negative” number, 32 percent, is nearly at an all-time high. The other polls tell similar stories: People feel more negatively toward Bill Clinton than at any time in at least the last five years.

For me the clarifying moment of disgust was his dishonesty concerning one of Barack Obama’s refreshing moments of truth-telling. “I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America,” Obama told a newspaper editorial board, “in a way that Richard Nixon did not, and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. {Reagan} put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think the Republican approach has played itself out, {but} I think it’s fair to say that the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there.”

Bill (and Hillary) Clinton distorted and demagogued this bit of plain truth to try to cast Obama as some kind of crypto-Republican. The former president has since gone on to besmirch Obama as a merely black candidate (“Jesse Jackson {also} won South Carolina in ’84 and ’88”) and as less patriotic than his wife and John McCain (“two people who love this country”).

Bill may believe sincerely that Hillary would make the better president. However, I agree with the suggestion that what’s driving him is not so much spousal loyalty as his own desperate narcissism, less a determination to get Hillary in the White House than to keep Obama out of it. How dare Obama say, he whined, that Reagan “had a more lasting impact on America than I did”? Indeed, an Obama presidency would be an unacceptable affront to Bill Clinton’s sense of his own historic gloriousness, for Obama is the new, highly improved version of Bill Clinton. Like Clinton in 1992, Obama is the thoughtful, oratorically brilliant 46-year-old new-style progressive who seems more pragmatist than ideologue. Whereas Clinton in 1998 was called “the first black president” in a metaphorical, mack-daddy sense—for his pleasure-loving appetites that had run afoul of the Man—Obama would be the post-ironic real thing. Obama’s speech about race was, among other things, a sublime and successful feat of political triangulation—which no doubt redoubled Clinton’s jealousy about the new guy’s stealing his act.

***

Bill Clinton is our great living exemplar of Sam Goldwyn’s great epigram: If you can fake sincerity, you’ve got it made. The joke, of course, is that sincerity is supposed to be more or less synonymous with honesty—truthfulness with a buttery frosting of earnestness. And although the honesty we want our presidents to embody isn’t merely (or even mainly) the literal Jimmy Carter kind (“I will never lie to you”), it’s an important part of the package.

Telling the truth, or not, has turned out to be a leitmotif of this election. “ Clinton’s an unusually good liar,” his fellow Democrat (and Hillary endorser) Bob Kerrey said of the president back around the time the First Lady was visiting postwar Bosnia. Thanks to the news footage of her unremarkable, sniper-free landing on the tarmac in Tuzla, we now know that Hillary Clinton is an equally brazen but unusually bad liar. (And her gratuitous fibbing has also served to turn one of her husband’s most significant accomplishments, imposing peace on the former Yugoslavia, into a setup for a joke.)

***

In fact, there’s been a heartening uptick in face-the-facts honesty among Republicans during the last few years, as the incompetence and bad faith of the Bush administration have come to look more undeniably like an M.O. rather than accidents. I knew something strange and beautiful was astir eighteen months ago, when The Washington Monthly published “Time for Us to Go,” a portfolio of essays by prominent conservatives on the inexcusable failures of the Republican regime. That was about the same time that Republican senator Chuck Hagel’s criticism of the war in Iraq blossomed into passionate, scabrous condemnation. John McCain, given the burden of his Vietnam past, seems tragically unable to admit that Iraq is not “winnable,” but it’s telling, I think, that the GOP nominated the candidate (unelectable Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul aside) who seems least inclined to dissemble.

Maybe we can handle some truth. Maybe the reality-based fractions of red and blue America are reaching a sort of consensus: Just as Republicans are beginning to get why George Bush makes so many Americans want to rip their hair out, a lot of Democrats have finally, viscerally come to understand Clinton-loathing. Mutual, symmetrical disillusionment; it’s a start.








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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. I still love him. nt
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Me too
and I think people that constantly post shit about him or Hillary are just as obsessed as freepers are.

It really cracks me up when I read this shit. Many Obama supporters were wailing last summer how "I'll NEVER vote for Hillary" with their lofty heads held high ..... NOW, when some Clinton supporters say they "never" vote for Obama they're like that crazy monkey at the zoo throwing poop!

I really belive that for all this talk of coming together after the primary, Obama supporters are going to in for a big shock. One of my good friends and former co-worker came back to California to visit and she said that she'll not vote if it's Obama. My parents feel the same. But I think when it comes down to it, they will vote for him. Which is simply a vote against McCain, same with me.

At least I'll same a bunch of money on donations the rest of the year.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. I lost all respect for Bill when he started palling around with Poppy Bush after the stolen election
of 2004. He should have spit in his face.

Shame on you, Bill. Have you no respect for democracy?
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Loving feeling for Bill ... GONE
I lost it completely. :-(
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's really sad. I have a lot of respect for him, but some of his antics have been despicable.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. I never had that love. I wish Republicans would wake up about Reagan, too.
He's the one they deify.

There is so much more stupid than there has to be in this world.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. I used to defend the Clintons with my last breath, but I got better.
This election season has been a real eye-opener. That combined with a review of history I once chose to ignore makes it impossible for me to feel anything but disgust for them both right now. Better late than never, I guess.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. I never thought they'd stoop so low.
The Clintons went to Washington idealists and left greedy, dishonest cynics. They learned their lessons well.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Idealists? Bill Clinton went to Washington PRIMED and ready to sweep NeoCon dirt under the rug
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. I guess I saw what I wanted to see
I really thought they were the progressive leaders I'd been waiting for. I found out different soon enough.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
30. and we ours
not this time!

:hi:
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. I still respect him and some of the ideas
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 05:15 PM by Blue_Roses
he had, but now it's time to move on. I have been so proud of all the work he's doing since leaving the oval office, however, the recent campaign and attacks has given me a bad taste that I didn't even have with the Monica scandal. It's like he thinks no one is better qualified than "the Clintons" for the office of the presidency. That's not only arrogant, but borderline sick. Win at all costs.

I sense a lot of jealousy towards Obama, not just because he's running against his wife, but because I think Clinton sees a new, younger --and much better-- vision of hope. Something we haven't seen in a long time.
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chill factor Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. I remember the good Clinton years...
But before his terms were done, Bill had lost his luster. The scandals that plagued his administration were more then I could handle. I finally thought we were done with him when he and Hillary left the White House with several "momentous" that belonged to the American taxpayers.

But like a bad penny, Bill always pops up! His behavior on the campaign trail in behalf of his spouse has been nothing short of disastrous. I wish I could find the article I read this morning. The article stated that MSM is sitting on all kinds of dirt about the Clinton's and waiting until the GE to use it. Maybe when MSM sees that Hillary is not going to be the candidate, they will let the dirt fly. But, then again, maybe not.....
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. I loved Bill Clinton like I'd love a big, overgrown Yellow Lab puppy.
Tail wagging his body, huffing, puffing, drooling, messing on the rug. That's Bill, still messing on the rug.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #9
47. Hey! We resemble that remark!
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
10. I never loved Bill, I voted for him in 92, but not in 96.
He always appeared to me to be a wee bit sleazy. He has proved me right on numerous occasions.

His team has NOT helped the Democratic Party with his "Third Way" politics. Big Donors are more important to them, then trying to build a bigger tent to include the small donors (Howard Dean and Barack Obama know we are IMPORTANT, 50 state strategy). He went so far to the right with his policies, it's no wonder the Democrats are having a hard time moving the Party back where it belongs.


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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. that's right
He did us no favors.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
32. Except for two
brillant supreme court picks.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. agreed
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. Gawd.....Bill Clinton looks like a little old man in that pic!
Wow...has he ever aged!
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vssmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. Best Republican President in the 20th Century
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. We have a Winner!!
You got that one right.

A lot of of folks look back over the Clinton years through rose coloured glasses, not getting the fact that the big dog stayed on the porch A LOT! Though the Repuke congress hated him. he was their BFF. Signed bills that a non DLC Democrat would have vetoed. Looking back I'm sorry to say that William Jefferson Clinton was the epitome of DINO.


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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
33. Would ANY republican
put Breyer or Ginsberg on the court? Republican president my ass.
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vssmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. A Republican put Earl Warren on the court, your ass
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. So you believe, in your heart,
that either George H.W. Bush (the man who put Clarence Thomas on the court) or Bob Dole would have put two dyed in the wool liberals like Ginsberg and Breyer on the court? Is that really the argument you foolishly want to go with. Do you hate Bill Clinton that much that you're willing to resort to intellectual dishonesty?
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vssmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. I said he was the BEST Republican not the worst
Would a Democrat cheerlead and vote for NAFTA?
Would a Democrat sign the telecommunication act that allowed media concentration? Rupert Mudoch used this to great advantage.
Would a Democrat do what Clinton did with welfare?
Would a Democrat sign the Defense of Marriage Act?
Would a Democrat sign a bill that overturned Glass-Steagall, a new Deal reform? Some economists say that is partially to blame for the subprime mess.
Would a Democrat institute Don't Ask, Dont tell?
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. What republican president would have
even wanted to do any of the following:

Economy
The Strongest Economy in a Generation Longest Economic Expansion in U.S. History. In February 2000, the United States entered the 107th consecutive month of economic expansion -- the longest economic expansion in history.

Moving From Record Deficits to Record Surplus. In 1992, the deficit was $290 billion, a record dollar high. In 2000, we have a projected budget surplus of $167 billion -- the largest dollar surplus on record (even after adjusting for inflation) and the largest as a share of our economy since 1951. This is the first time we have had three surpluses in a row in more than a half century.

Paying Off the National Debt. We are on track to pay down $297 billion of debt over three years. In 1998 and 1999, we paid down $140 billion in debt. This year, we are on track to pay down $157 billion of debt - bringing the three-year total to $297 billion. Public debt is $2.4 trillion lower in 2000 than was projected in 1993. Debt reduction brings real benefits for the American people -- a family with a home mortgage of $100,000 might expect to save roughly $2,000 per year in mortgage payments. Reduced debt also means lower interest rates and reduced payments on car loans and student loans. With the President's plan, we are now on track to eliminate the nation's publicly held debt by 2013.

Over 21 Million New Jobs. 21.2 million new jobs have been created since 1993, the most jobs ever created under a single Administration -- and more new jobs than Presidents Reagan and Bush created during their three terms. 92 percent (19.4 million) of the new jobs have been created in the private sector, the highest percentage in 50 years. Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, the economy has added an average of 248,000 jobs per month, the highest under any President. This compares to 52,000 per month under President Bush and 167,000 per month under President Reagan.

Fastest and Longest Real Wage Growth in Over Three Decades. In the last 12 months, average hourly earnings have increased 3.7 percent -- faster than the rate of inflation. The United States has had five consecutive years of real wage growth -- the longest consecutive increase since the 1960s. Since 1993, real wages are up 6.8 percent, after declining 4.3 percent during the Reagan and Bush years.

Highest Homeownership Rate in History. In 1999, the homeownership rate was 66.8 percent -- the highest ever recorded. Minority homeownership rates were also the highest ever recorded.
Lowest Poverty Rate in Two Decades. The poverty rate has fallen from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 12.7 percent in 1998. That's the lowest poverty rate since 1979 and the largest five-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years (1965-1970). The African-American poverty rate has dropped from 33.1 percent in 1993 to 26.1 percent in 1998 -- the lowest level ever recorded and the largest five-year drop in African-American poverty in more than a quarter century (1967-1972). The poverty rate for Hispanics is at the lowest level since 1979, and dropped to 25.6 percent in 1998.

Largest Five-Year Drop in Child Poverty Rate Since the ‘60s. Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, child poverty has declined from 22.7 percent in 1993 to 18.9 percent in 1998 -- the biggest five-year drop in nearly 30 years. The poverty rate for African-American children has fallen from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 36.7 percent in 1998 -- a level that is still too high, but is the lowest level in 20 years and the biggest five-year drop on record. The rate also fell for Hispanic children, from 36.8 percent to 34.4 percent - and is now 6.5 percentage points lower than it was in 1993.

Families and Communities

Strengthening America’s Working Families.Tax Cuts for Working Families. 15 million additional working families received additional tax relief because of the President’s expansion of the Earned Income Tax Credit. In 1998, the EITC lifted 4.3 million people out of poverty - double the number lifted out of poverty by the EITC in 1993. This year, the President proposed expanding the EITC to provide tax relief to an additional 6.8 million hard-pressed working families.

Helping Parents Balance Work and Family. The Family and Medical Leave Act allows workers to take up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave to care for seriously ill family members, new born or adoptive children, or their own serious health problems without fear of losing their jobs. Nearly 91 million workers (71% of the labor force) are covered by the Family and Medical Leave Act and millions of workers have benefited from FMLA since its enactment. President Clinton has proposed expanding FMLA to allow workers to take up to 24 unpaid hours off each year for school and early childhood education activities, routine family medical care, and caring for an elderly relative.

Improved Access to Affordable, Quality Child Care and Early Childhood Programs. Under the Clinton-Gore Administration, federal funding for child care has more than doubled, helping parents pay for the care of about 1.5 million children in 1998, and the1996 welfare reform law increased child care funding by $4 billion over six years to provide child care assistance to families moving from welfare to work. Since 1993, the Clinton-Gore Administration has increased funding for the Head Start program by 90 percent, and in FY 2000, the program will serve approximately 880,000 children - over 160,000 more children than in 1993.

Increased the Minimum Wage. The minimum wage has risen from $4.25 to $5.15 per hour, increasing wages for 10 million workers. The President and Vice President have called for an additional increase to $6.15. Enacted the Workforce Investment Act. The Workforce Investment Act reformed the nation’s employment and training system so that it works better for today's workers. The WIA empowered individuals by giving adults more control and choice over their training or retraining and providing universal access to core labor market services; streamlined job training services by consolidating a tangle of individual programs into a simple system and creating a nationwide network of One-Stop Career Centers; enhanced accountability through tough performance standards for states, localities, and training providers; and increased flexibility so that states can innovate and experiment with new ways to train America's workers better.

Education

Largest Investment in Education in 30 Years Opening the Doors of College to All Americans. In 1997, President Clinton proposed and passed the HOPE Scholarships and Lifetime Learning tax credits to provide tax relief to nearly 13 million Americans each year who are struggling to pay for college. The Hope Scholarship helps make the first two years of college universally available to about 5.6 million students annually by providing a tax credit of up to $1,500 for tuition and fees for the first two years of college. The Lifetime Learning tax credit provides a 20 percent tax credit on the first $5,000 of tuition and fees for students beyond the first two years of college, or those taking classes part-time (in 2003, this increases to $10,000 of tuition and fees). In his FY01 budget, the President has proposed to expand the Lifetime Learning tax credit with a 10-year, $30 billion College Opportunity tax cut, which will give families the option of taking a tax deduction or claiming a 28 percent credit for the first $5,000 of college tuition and fees until 2002, and $10,000 thereafter.

Expanding Work Study and Pell Grants. One million students will be able to work their way through college because of the President's expansion of the Work Study Program, and nearly four million students will receive a Pell Grant of up to $3,300, the largest maximum award ever. The maximum award has increased 43 percent under the Clinton-Gore Administration. This year President Clinton proposed a $77 million increase in Work Study to continue to support one million awards, and a $200 increase in the Pell Grant maximum award, to raise it to $3,500.

Making College More Affordable. The Clinton-Gore Administration has cut student fees and interest rates on all loans, expanded repayment options including income contingent repayment, and improved service through the Direct Loan Program. Students have saved $8.7 billion since 1993 through the reduction in loan fees and interest rates.
More High-Quality Teachers with Smaller Class Sizes. The Clinton-Gore Administration won a second installment of $1.3 billion for the President’s plan to hire an additional 100,000 well-prepared teachers to reduce class size in the early grades, when children learn to read and master the basic skills. Already, 29,000 teachers have been hired through this initiative. This year's budget provides $1.75 billion, a $450 million increase -- enough to fund nearly 49,000 teachers.

Turning Around Failing Schools. 11 million low-income students in 13,000 school districts now benefit from higher expectations and a challenging curriculum geared to higher standards through Title I-Aid to Disadvantaged Students. The FY 2000 budget provides a $134 million accountability fund to help turn around the worst performing schools and hold them accountable for results through such measures as overhauling curriculum, improving staffing, or even closing schools and reopening them as charter schools. This year, the President is proposing to double funding for this fund to turn around the nation's failing schools to ensure all children receive a quality education.

Providing Safe After-School Opportunities for 850,000 Students Each Year. The 21st Century Community Learning Centers program will provide enriching after-school and summer school opportunities for 850,000 school-age children in rural and urban communities in FY 2000. Extended learning time has not only been shown to increase achievement in reading and math, but to decrease youth violence and drug use. Funding for this program more than doubled from FY 1999 to FY 2000. For FY 2001, the President's budget calls on Congress to invest $1 billion in the 21st Century Program and to ensure that all children in failing schools have access to quality after-school and summer school opportunities. This proposal will double funding and triple the number of students served to 2.5 million.

Expanding Choice and Accountability in Public Schools. The Clinton-Gore Administration has worked to expand public school choice and support the growth of public charter schools, which have increased from one public charter school in the nation when the President was first elected to more than 1,700. More than 250,000 students nationwide are now enrolled in charter schools in 30 states and the District of Columbia. The President won $145 million in FY 2000 -- and has proposed $175 million in his FY 2001 budget -- to continue working toward his goal of establishing 3,000 quality charter schools by 2002.

Teaching Every Child to Read by the 3rd Grade. The President challenged Americans to unite to be sure that every child can read well and independently by the third grade -- 1,400 colleges and universities took up his challenge, and 26,700 college work-study students now serve as reading tutors to help every child to read well and independently by the third grade.
Expanding Access to Technology. With the Vice President's leadership, the Clinton-Gore Administration has made increasing access to technology a top priority. The President and Vice President created the Technology Literacy Challenge Fund to help connect every school to the Internet, increase the number of multimedia computers in the classroom and provide technology training for teachers. They increased overall investments in educational technology from $23 million in 1993 to $769 million in FY 2000, and tripled funding for Community Technology Centers to reach at least 120 low-income communities. Through the E-rate program, they secured low-cost connections to the Internet for schools, libraries, rural health clinics and hospitals, benefiting more than 80 percent of America's public schools. They also increased investment in education research to ensure all children benefit from educational technology. In 1999, 95 percent of public schools were connected to the Internet -- up from just 35 percent in 1994.

Supporting Local Education Reform Efforts. The President signed the Education Flexibility Partnership Act of 1999 (Ed-Flex) into law in April 1999, giving all states greater flexibility in the use of federal education funds in exchange for greater accountability for helping all students reach high academic standards.

Establishing the GEAR-UP Mentoring Program for Middle School Children. President Clinton and Vice President Gore created and expanded GEAR-UP, a nationwide mentoring initiative, to help over 750,000 low-income middle school children finish school and prepare for college. The President's FY 2001 budget would expand services to 1.4 million students.

Providing Early Education to Nearly 900,000 Children with Head Start. The President and Vice President have expanded Head Start funding by 90 percent since 1993. Head Start will reach approximately 880,000 low-income children in FY 2000 and, with the President's proposed increase for the program, will be on the way to reaching the President's goal of serving 1 million children and their families by the year 2002. The Administration also created Early Head Start, bringing Head Start's successful comprehensive services to families with children ages zero to three, and set high quality standards for both programs.

Fighting Hate Crimes. The President enacted the Hate Crimes Sentencing Enhancement Act in 1994. He held the historic White House Conference on Hate Crimes, where he called for passage of the Hate Crimes Prevention Act -- bipartisan legislation which would strengthen hate crimes laws and make it clear that America will not tolerate acts of violence based on race, color, gender, national origin, religion, sexual orientation or disability. Protecting Children from Sex Offenders. President Clinton signed Megan’s Law and the Jacob Wetterling Crimes Against Children and Sexually Violent Offender Registration Act, requiring states to set up sex offender registration systems and require community notification when sex offenders are released from prison.

More can be found here

http://pearlyabraham.tripod.com/htmls/bill-legacy2.html

But knock yourself out with your hatred. It suits you.


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vssmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. I never used the word hate
Even though your message is more detailed and longer than mine, I do believe that the things I mentioned did more damage the the good that the items on your list did.

Here is one other thing that bothers me--Clinton did not leave the Prince Sultan airbase in Saudi Arabia. I know he did not build that base, Bush I did, but he had 8 years to accomplish that and he never did.

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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. I still like the Clintons. I miss their presidency. I don't think Obama's
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 06:07 PM by applegrove
statement about clinton's presidency was anything but politics: go and attack your opponent's strong points. Same as Karl Rove only the clintons were so quick to jump on it we see it more as obama being taken out of context (victim) than anything else right now.
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. I stuck up for Bill through thick & thin - but then I found out about what he had done......
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 06:24 PM by 1776Forever
The things that turned me off about him are:

Nafta
1996 Communications Bill that gave Murdoch a free ride
Welfare Reform
The Selling off of the Lincoln Bedroom
Dubai Ports Support
Vin Gupta and getting all he could out of that "friendship" which caused a lawsuit because of it
Behind the door Columbian CAFTA support

And:

posted on: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/07/bill-clinton-profits-from_n_90459.html

"The Clintons' Terror Pardons" --- THE WALL STREET JOURNAL, FEB 12, '08 ---http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120277819085260827.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

As well as:

The New York Times published an investigative news story that discovered Bill brokered a uranium deal in Kazakhstan that led to a $31.3 million donation to his Clinton Global Initiative. The deal included a midnight dinner with the President of Kazakhstan. Clinton spokespersons denied the event occurred until the New York Times produced a photo of the event from an aide to President Nazarbayev.

.............

And yet so many HRC supporters say all these are lies! I wish they were!

:hide:
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. Here's more on the Giustra deal >
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Thanks - makes one wonder how much of this he kept for himself - 3% would be
1 million I think. The Katrina Fund he did with old man Bush just started to really hand out that money. Brad Pitt just got a lot of money from it for the housing project he is doing in NOLA. I was sure glad to see that!!!

Link for the Brad Pitt Make it Right Fund:

http://www.makeitrightnola.org/
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
18. I had to break up with Bill in January.
And, no, I don't want to stay friends.

I used to adore and support him - but now I know better.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. It was a co-dependent relatonship.
And he was just using you.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. You're right, you're so right!
Bastard!
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. The new guy is so much better for you!
:hi:
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Isn't he though?
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
21. "Mutual, symmetrical disillusionment" Cool phrase must use it some time.=)
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 08:51 PM by cooolandrew
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Kber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
28. Worth reading to the end.
Thanks for posting
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Yes it's a good read, thanks!
NY Mag has some excellent political coverage -
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liberaldem4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
35. That was such a good article-thanks for posting it
I feel so much like that about Bill Clinton. I remember when 9-11 happened and I felt so scared and devastated like everyone did at the time. Then I saw Bill Clinton on TV talking to people on the street and I cried. It comforted me like seeing your father speak when a tragedy happened in your family. That's the way I loved Bill Clinton. And I really thought a lot of Hillary too, not like Bill but a lot. It is hard to express how much it hurt me when I started to realize that they weren't the people I had really believed they were. It kind of started happening about the time of the New Hampshire primary when I started to notice that Bill and Hillary weren't telling the truth about a few things and then when S. Carolina happened and they said all those things that were so hurtful they really lost me. I had really been not sure who to support and I had really considered Hillary at first. As the race has gone on I know for sure I am supporting the best candidate for our country. As disillusioned as I have become about both the Clintons, I still want to love Bill. Maybe when Barack becomes the nominee, and the Clintons support him and we all can get behind our Democratic candidate, I can put my disillusionment in the past. I really, really want to love Bill Clinton. Maybe I'll see if I can just increase my antidepressant instead. One or the other.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
36. Bill lost me in 1998
I lived near DC, and it was the height of the Lewinsky crap. I was so angry at him, I could have spit nails.

:mad:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Turns out that isn't
his only failing.:(
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:46 PM
Original message
delete
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 12:47 PM by loyalsister
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
37. Remember a "place called Hope"?
Obama’s speech about race was, among other things, a sublime and successful feat of political triangulation—which no doubt redoubled Clinton’s jealousy about the new guy’s stealing his act.


But we can do it- with commitment, creativity, diversity and drive.

We can do it. We can do it.

We can do it. We can do it. We can do it.

We can do it. We can do it. We can do it.

I want every person in this hall and every person in this land to reach out and join us in a great new adventure, to chart a bold new future.

As a teenager, I heard John Kennedy’s summons to citizenship. And then, as a student at Georgetown, I head that call clarified by a professor name Carol Quigley, who said to us that America was the greatest Nation in history because our people had always believed in two things- that tomorrow can be better than today and that every one of us has a personal moral responsibility to make it so.

That, that, kind of future entered my life the night our daughter, Chelsea, was born. As I stood in the delivery room, I was overcome with the thought that God had given me a blessing my own father never knew- the chance to hold my child in my arms.

Somewhere at this very moment a child is being born in America. Let it be our cause to give that child a happy home, a healthy family and a hopeful future. Let it be our cause to see that that child has a chance to live to the fullest of her God-given capacities.

Let it be our cause to see that child grow up strong and secure, braced by her challenges but never struggling alone, with family and friends and a faith that in America, no one is left out; no one is left behind.

Let it be, let it be, our cause that when this child is able, she gives something back to her children, her community and her country. Let it be our cause that we give this child a country that is coming together, not coming apart, a country of boundless hopes and endless dreams, a country once again lifts its people and inspires the world. Let that be our cause our commitment and our New Covenant.

My fellow Americans, I end tonight where it all began for me- I still believe in a place called Hope. God bless you, and God Bless America.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton%27s_acceptance_speech_to_1992_Democratic_Convention"



http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton's_acceptance_speech_to_1992_Democratic_Convention

Call it plagerism if you want. I really can't imagine that anyone has a copyright on the word hope, though.
The point is the started at the same place.
Yet he knows that history books will devote longer paragraphs to an Obama presidency than to the Clinton presidency.
It is truly unfortunate that that "burden" somehow seems to be leading him to sabotage Hillary's campaign.
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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
40. k&r
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
42. Four months ago, I would have still gone to the mat for Bill. No more.
He's ripped it with me. I wouldn't go see him now unless he was introducing Obama.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
43. Perfect essay. I am SO out of love with you Bill.
And I loved you as recently as 2006. And I am still in love with Gore and Kerry. But for you and me, it is SO OVER.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
48. You know, I find it interesting, never was a fan of Bill, voted for him, only because the....
alternative was worse, but the fact of the matter is that I used to attack him quite a lot on this board, especially when people came out with the "big dog" posts about how "great" he was. A mediocre President at best, as most centrists are, the only good thing I can say about the guy is that at least he balanced the budget, other than that, well, not much else to say, beyond not putting fascists on the Bench. OK, so that makes two good things.

What I do find interesting is that a lot of people here that now condemn him aren't condemning him because he forwarded bad, centrist, policies on Free Trade, NAFTA, Welfare Reform, DOMA, DMCA or many other policies. No, they attack him because of his words after he left office in attacking Obama. I'm not saying he's a nice guy, on the contrary, he's quite the asshole, but I just find it amusing that people are NOW criticizing the guy over fluff rather than substance.

You know, the biggest difference between the two fanclubs on this board isn't that they differ on policy, its fluff they differ on, as far as I can tell, neither Hillary nor Obama greatly differ from each other, and as such they and their supporters seem to attack each other based on the stupidest criteria imaginable. It seems to be more of a personality conflict rather than real debate on things that actually matter.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
49. He is so not who I thought he was, but I'm not at all surprised by Hillary.
I never trusted her, but I absolutely adored Bill. I lost lifelong friends because of arguments about Bill in the 90's. It's surprising, but I have no respect whatsoever left for him at this point.
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