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Whoever wins the primary, I gotta say I like our chances.

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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:58 PM
Original message
Whoever wins the primary, I gotta say I like our chances.
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 11:25 PM by Plaid Adder
So, we watch American Idol. Go ahead. Mock me. The point is: this week is "Idol Gives Back," during which over a span of three days American Idol tries to raise $100 million for charity. All three of the current presidential hopefuls were invited to tape messages exhorting American Idol fans to dig deep, give till it hurts, etc. And all three said yes, which tells you something about the state of American culture today.

So, they ran all three spots one after the other, thus giving the 15 million or however many viewers of this program the chance to compare McCain to the two Democratic contenders.

All of the candidates, of course, are doing this for publicity, and all of them tried to use the spot to get whatever their top talking point is out. Hillary Clinton, for instance, stressed the fact that she has had experience working with many of the charities supported by Idol Gives Back (see, she's experienced, you can trust her when she says your donation will make a difference); Obama mentioned that his daughters were rabid AI fans and also worked in the hope, change, optimism line (see, I'm younger, in tune with the next generation, full of can-do optimism, follow me into the future where the world will be a better place, etc.). However, both of them kept the focus on the event itself and the work the charities are doing in Africa and in the US, and both projected the appropriate level of gravitas. And I have to say, I have serious doubts about the ability of private charity to alleviate injustices that are structurally integral to global capitalism; but all the same, the perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good, and the program did, I imagine, raise awareness about a variety of horrific situations at home and abroad.

McCain decided that he would try to be funny. He felt it necessary to go to a lot of trouble to set up a Democrat-bashing joke that probably most of his audience wouldn't get (something to the effect that at least fans in Michigan and Florida know that their votes count on American Idol, if nowhere else) and he closed with a joke about his "new immigration policy," which would target Simon Cowell (he's British, see--which is funny, because usually Republican immigration policy is all about harassing Mexicans! Ha ha ha!) He had this smug smirk on the whole time which I swear he has stolen from Dubya, and in general the whole thing was about as charming and heartfelt as one of Bob Dole's Viagra commercials. I guess he was shooting for "cool," but it just came out creepy.

I know he's male, I know he's white. I'm sayin' that's about all he's got going for him when it comes to winning the hearts and minds. And I figure maybe this time it won't be enough.

Then again, I'm often wrong,

The Plaid Adder
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well your probably wrong about being wrong often
this GE campaign will be one of startling juxtaposition. In a single word


DEBATES
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Obama/Clinton - any order - has a good shot - any other ticket is meet Pres McCain despite my vote
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futureliveshere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I disagree.. Clinton or Obama will wipe the floor with McSenile with one hand tied behind their back
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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I think Clinton & Obama should not be on the same ticket.
All that does is combine his negatives with her negatives. If either wins, the VP should be someone else, IMHO. Which it probably will be, because I don't see either of them getting excited about the No. 2 spot.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder
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Ilithiad Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. negatives
You are forgetting florida...Obama cant get those votes without hillary and Hillary cant appease the popular vote if gets the nominee and does not select obama as a running mate...Lets face it they both need each other now because of Florida and Michigan's screw up. It is a matter of who needs who more.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. an decent female pic for vp gets most of hill's votes.
if it were any other candidate, i would bet money on a female vp. this campaign could do something completely different, and have it work brilliantly. like al gore.
but most of hill's voters are voting for the principle of a woman in the white house. they like her, personally. but another strong woman will make them happy. a strong woman without hill's baggage would make them even happier.
(i say this as a long time strong feminist. no slight intended.)
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olkaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. This is an interesting thought.
I've never heard anybody suggest this before.

I wonder who you have in mind?
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. well, i suspect o has kathleen sybellius ?
barbara boxer would be great, but i don't think he will pick another senator. i really don't know. maybe it will be someone out of nowhere. naomi klein? dunno. hard for me to get past the hope for al.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. oh definitely!
a really bad idea would be to combine them, because the neocons will piece together videos of the presidential/vice presdential candidates for the Democratic party - pointing out each other's problems and why they shouldn't be elected - especially from the mouth of Senator & President Clinton.

Welcome back Plaid - I think you were on hiatus, I may be wrong, but I'm glad to see something from you. And yes, McSame was so clever and funny on American Idol, ha! What a dork he is. I believe Obama will mop him up in the debates, but more so than that, I believe our collective grassroots efforts to get Obama in office, along with the desire for obvious change in Iraq, will bring him victory if we all believe, no matter what the polls say, and work as often as we can - our very future as a country depends on that!

I saw this in the AP report about McSame being even with Obama in polling --- "About a third of Clinton supporters say they would vote for McCain if it's Obama." All I have to say is GOOD JOB HILLARY & BILL! That number would be at 10% or less if they were not playing dirty politics with him. They, especially her, have a lot of work to do to repair the damage done to Obama with her supporters. They gravitate to her language - and she needs to rectify her behavior quickly - because as she says - "Senator McCain will bring a great wealth of experience to the White House" - and that was appalling to witness, not once, but 4 or 5 times in ONE day.

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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. That may be true, but I'm not sure.
Realistically were talking about Obama getting the nomination, so the question is about Hillary's base. There's certain sections like strong Israel supporters that I could see going to McCain if she's not on the ticket, for sure. How significant these groups will be I don't know.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. You'd be surprise to know that many Jews are not Neocons.....
and I'd be surprised that they'd want someone barking at Iran, a country in their backyard.
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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. I believe there are many who aren't REALLY neocons...
But a lot of Jews are guilted into believing that they either support belligerent hawkishness for Israel, or are "self hating Jews". I've seen it myself many times, even with Jews who are liberal in every other way. I hope Obama walks the right path here, and takes the time to reach out to Jews who know in their heart that whole thing is a lie...I really belive there are a lot of them right now. Enough to keep a strong Jewish constituency under his belt.
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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. dupe
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 01:47 AM by napoleon_in_rags
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. K/R nt
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
9. I picked up on the same thing as you. McCain's tasteless joke were no better
than his Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran chant!

Most in the audience didn't get it....although based on his smirk, he thought it was funny.

The man is out of step....and that's why he won't win. The only thing he had going was his backdrop...which showed him, most likely, at home....since he ain't really campaigning.


I felt Obama was most dignified and managed to connect by stating the fact that his girls watch the show, and then thanked the show for doing what it was doing....and encouraging everyone to give.

Hillary looked excellent in her Red Power suit, and what she had to say was suitable for the occasion.

Both Obama and Hillary had these sorry looking backdrop tho....hard and cold.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. If it is enough, America will get what America deserves.
I can't bear the thought.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
14. Democrats need to be willing to use McCain's age against him
IMO this isn't going to be lost due to our candidate's race or gender unless it is very very close in which case it might tip the balance.

Americans want change (either Clinton or Obama) and that is why they are turning out to vote in record numbers. The problem is that come November, McLame may be able to scare them into voting for him because of national security. Democrats need to attack him at his supposed "strong point" the way Republicans do so that he can be neutralized. If Americans see him as senile, then he doesn't have a claim to being a more capable commander-in-chief and they will be more likely to go with what they want and vote Democratic.

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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I believe it will be close due to our candidate's race or gender
The reason I preferred Warner or Edwards initially was ease of victory. Now that we're beyond those options I simply believe Hillary is more likely to be an excellent president than Obama. But either one will be hard pressed to win by more than a narrow split decision.

It likely comes down to Ohio again. Unless we can somehow pull out Virginia.

Minus Florida or Ohio, the straight flush of smaller states is extremely unlikely, regardless how often the nonsense electoral maps are posted, the ones relying on state polls from this cycle only. It's incredible how that passes for legit, without regard to historical/logical perspective of how states vote in relation to each other. You might as well start posting that gas prices will continue to soar, but transportable goods will steadily decline in price. That's how much sense it makes.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I think ultimately we will have to win Ohio, but...
Putting other states into play is crucial to actually winning Ohio. If we compete in Colorado, Virginia, and Missouri, McCain has to compete there too and that means he has less time to spend in Ohio. This is what happened to Kerry in 2004. He had to defend Wisconsin and New Jersey and that meant less time that he could spend in Ohio. Also remember that McCain, because of his age, will be able to make fewer campaign stops per day than either Hillary or Obama will. He simply won't have the strength to do it all.

Again, I think McCain's resounding downfall will be his age, much like it was for Bob Dole. Democrats have to stop being chicken though and be fully willing to exploit it.
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. That could backfire
If the Democratic campaign is seen as being ageist, it could alienate older voters.
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Zambero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I agree
Many individuals are mentally competent and lucid into their later years. McCain just isn't one of them. He should be judged as an individual not as a member of an age class.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
17. Here's the "Idol" show we should be watching:
www.political-idol.com

Watch the video clips. NO mercy! LOL
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
18. Hee. Nice story. Thanks for posting it.
I'm enjoying this race. I totally agree with you. :D
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
22. "Then again, I'm often wrong" -- I've got my fingers crossed
hoping you're not.

I'll give you a poss for watching Idol. I'm just a snob about the whole reality TV scene--I've never watched so much as a minute of Survivor. Too much shit going down in the real world to get all caught up in the idea that the fundy Xian from Oklahoma and the transgendered Wiccan aren't getting along (surprise!) in the "Real World" house on the MTV.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
25. This is mocking you
:P

:bounce:

01:43 Here are all three
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvxK7t99JY8
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. While I have see AI on exceptionally rare occasions, and then
only for a few moments at a time...I may just look these up on youtube.

I am sure McCain's is the one that will catch my eye, as I would suppose he and Cowell were riding in an ice cream truck covered in human skulls, tossing bones at the people on the street.

As for charities changing the world...well, it may never happen on a global scale, but there are people out there trying to change a little corner of this world...and if the "leaders" of these charities can keep their hands off of the money and use it wisely...perhaps children will be fed, clothed, blankets and medicine handed out, seeds bought and tools for self sufficiency will be on the way...a few million dollars can do wonders if it is used wisely...O8)
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
27. McCain is also cute when he does his grumpy old man routine.
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