Obama on small-town PA: Clinging religion, guns, xenophobia

[jefferson_dem]

Obama on small-town PA: Clinging religion, guns, xenophobia

Mayhill Fowler has more from Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

That's a pretty broad list of things to explain with job loss.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Obama_on_smalltown_PA_Clinging_religion_guns_xenophobia.html#comments

I applaud Obama for his frankness and honesty.

Sludge links to this story above the fold. What am I missing? Why the (feigned) outrage from the knuckle-dragger contingent?

[LSparkle]

1. If you read it n context, it's perfectly true ... sometimes the truth hurts

People who are smarting over these remarks are probably not reading
the entire quote or are looking for reasons to dislike Obama
(shooting the messenger because he DOES speak the truth).

[NJSecularist]

2. Yup, the people that are outraged just skimmed over this article looking for that GOTCHA quote.

It's as simple as that. If you read it in context, it is completely true.

[OzarkDem]

16. Its a load of BS

From a guy who knows he's going to lose.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

35. Here is an equally insightful reply:

[saracat]

3. And he thinks that w statement will make Penn vote for him? Gimme a break.

This is why Mccain would carry penn in the GE. Apparently he understands nothing about Pennsylvania.

[NJSecularist]

4. McCain is not carrying Pennsylvania in the general.

Obama will carry it by as much as Kerry did. The towns he is referring to... he wouldn't carry them anyways.

[saracat]

12. Want to frigging bet?

If Obama is the nominee, Penn will go for McCain. pennsylvanians tend to be catholic and extremely patriotic. Kerry was a Catholic war hero. Barck is neither.He offers Pennsylvania nothing and talks down to them.

McCain will appeal to their patriotism and sense of "straight talk". JMHO.

[NJSecularist]

14. That's your opinion, but you are wrong.

Gore was not a war hero, and he carried Pennsylvania by 4 points. I expect the same from Obama, although he may not win by that much.

McCain is not a good match for Pennsyvlvania. Neither is Obama, but my point is that the state is a Democratic state and it gives Obama built-in advantages.

[saracat]

19. Gore was an estblished figure with credibility. Obama is not,There is no comparison.

Gore was a former Senator and two term popular Vice president.Obam hasn't even completed one term in the Senate.This comparison is absurd.

[NJSecularist]

22. It is not absurd. Pennsylvania is a state that trends Democratic.

You can marginalize Obama's candidacy all you want, but he is the favorite in the state. It's obvious you don't like him, but to say right now that the state will go to McCain is laughable. You have no idea what you are talking about.

[saracat]

38. Obama isn't the favorite in Pennsylvania. There isn't any justifcation for that statement at all.

[NJSecularist]

49. When is the last time a Republican won in Pennsylvania?

It's just as much a favorite to the Democrats as Florida is a favorite to the Republicans.

[AnnieBW]

117. Bush in 2000, I believe

Scared all of the rednecks by saying that Gore was gonna come and take their guns away.

[last_texas_dem]

121. Nah, PA hasn't voted for the Repug on the Presidential level since Poppy Bush in '88

The 2000 and 2004 races were relatively close there, though...

[AnnieBW]

146. Okay, I'm probably mis-remembering

I have CRS these days. Or should I call it McCain's Disease? I can't remember Shiite. :evilgrin:

[mkultra]

18. his statements sounds like straight talk to me.

[cali]

26. yeah, I want to bet

you're so filled with hate you WANT that to happen. Sick.

[saracat]

36. Actually, I don't care. There is a difference cali. I am not "filled with hate"

I am merely stating what I believe to be the case in Pennsylvania.This commentary will not play well. But I have no desire to see the Dems lose Penn. But if Obama is the nominee, I simply "don't care."Hate places too much importance on the issue.

[cali]

54. your posts indicate hate

both hear in GDP and in the Edwards Forum. You can deny it all you want, but it's clear as can be.

[saracat]

59. And are you always so "loving' cali? The truth is, I really "don't' care anymore.

I have said if Obama is the nominee, I will not be voting for him. I will be writing in a Democrat and supporting the downline. I honestly don't care who wins the presidency if Obama is the nominee.That is not hate.Now, I can't say I feel very lovey dovey about some of his fan club. DSome have been obnoxious and I don't have to "love" them.

[TheDoorbellRang]

94. You don't care if McCain becomes president?

Then what are you doing here?

[cali]

98. no, I'm not always so loving

but I don't trash Hillary the way you used to or the way you trash Obama now. And I recognize that not voting the dem nominee is contemptible.

[cornermouse]

144. Yeah, you do cali.

You really do. You've begun throwing in an occasional "come-together/maybe Hillary isn't quite Satan after all" post but yeah, you do.

[Clintonista2]

65. Oh Cali, stop being such a hypocrite.

Your posts are among the most vile and hate-filled on all of GDP.

[cali]

97. baloney.

I don't post hate filled spews about Hillary like you do against Obama. And I've made it clear I don't think she's repuke lite or any
of that nonsense, and that I'll vote for her. Now, as to being snarky to certain individual posters, of that, I'm guilty.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

63. You really are something.

You must not have any kids that can be drafted for you to not care about the election.

:puke:

[saracat]

68. There is NOT going to be a draft no matter who is elected. And SCOTUS is a red

herring as well. Obama has continually voted to confirm the most radical judicial appointments.There will be no difference so I don't care.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saracat]

75. You are seriously rude and contemptuous of anyone with a different opinion.

And I am glad to see you proving sexism is alive and well on DU by your comments. I see you threw in a little ageism as well. Proud of yourself are you?

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saracat]

87. You have no idea what my age is or what my situation is.

I do not advocate Mccain. I would never vote for him .Your comments on meno pause and the physical symptoms of womnhood are sexist and ageist beacuse you use them as an "insult". And you have no right to 'threaten me " with anything.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

90. I'm not insulting your physical state. I'm pointing out your selfishness.

Yours is the attitude of a woman who has no children to die in a war and no personal stake in reproductive freedom. Your "I don't care" statement gave it away. "Why should I care when it's all about MEEEEEEEE?" :puke:

[saracat]

100. You have no idea what my physical state is. And as I have spent a lot of time invested in the

reproductive rights and it is what I consider to be "my issue", I find your remarks offensive especially your comment about my having "no stake in reproductive freedom." But then I remind myself, you are jumping to conclusions with no facts to support them.Obviously you are unable to differentiate between a goal and the method of achieving it.We simply disagree and I consider your attacks unwarranted and selfish.It is unreasonable to assume that you have the only answers to this problem and are somehow more of a "champion of women's reproductive rights" than someone else.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

131. You champion reproductive rights by not caring about SCOTUS?

You seriously believe that Obama wouldn't pick better judges (at all levels not just Supremes) than McCain? You would write a name in instead of voting for the DEMOCRAT, whoever it is? THAT'S how you demonstrate your commitment to reproductive rights? You disgust me. :puke:

If you're a PC in your district you should resign. Immediately. Democrats don't help McCain get elected.

[saracat]

136. I am way more than a PC and I don't believe that Barack would pick better judges, He doesn't have

a track record to indicate he would. He has consistantly voted for the most conservative of judges and had to be strong armed to oppose Roberts. How dare you, knowing nothing about me .tell me to do anything? Grow up.

[golddigger]

89. You need to get off your fat Irish ass and smell the computer seat.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

You need to go piss up a rope.

Insult me all you want but at least I'll NEVER endorse McCain over a fellow Dem. I'll even hold my nose and vote for Her Entitled Majesty if it comes down to it because it is THAT IMPORTANT THAT MCCAIN NOT WIN!! If you and your buddy saracat want to play petulant little games by threatening to vote for McCain or write in a name then get the fuck off this discussion board.

Smell your own damn seat, asshole.

[golddigger]

101. You could have made your point without insulting her. Don't like it aye.

BTW, your the one that said My Fat Irish Ass. So take the rope I pissed up and stick it in your fat Irish ass.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

130. She can make her point without endorsing McCain.

If her little fee fees are more important to you than her disgusting attitude toward the election then there's really nothing more for me to say to you.

[saracat]

137. I do NOT endorse McCain. I just do NOT endorse Obama.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

140. You SAID you would write in a candidate instead of the DEMOCRATIC one.

You might as well be a REPUBLICAN. Turn in your PC card and go away.

[saracat]

141. I will support a Democrat.

[mtnsnake]

138. Why do you Obamawhiners always put your phony words into other peoples posts?

And who the hell are you to criticize someone elses attitude?

[mtnsnake]

104. Ewww

LOLOL!!

[knixphan]

37. and Obama will win the GE, and the world will go on.

[BumRushDaShow]

126. Hello? PA is now majority Democratic in registration and rising...

and they continue to count the registrations because they're STILL not done yet due to so many being filed. The movement to the Democratic Party is historic in depth and breadth. PA is not Oklahoma or Florida.

The very obssessive Catholic RW gun-toting faux patriotic interfere-in-someone-else's-private-family-affairs Rick Santorum was summarily booted out of office as a repuke PA Senator in 2006, but then I suppose that fact happened to have flown under your radar. :eyes:

[jefferson_dem]

6. Give us all a break and tell us exactly how he's wrong.

Thanks in advance.

[saracat]

15. And why would taht matter?Insulting people doesn't influence them to vote for you.

Barack sounds to them like the latte swilling limosine liberal they think he is.This will not play in pennsylvania.Great soundbite. He knocks Pennsylvania to Californians, patronizes them, and wants their vote? No wonder Hillary is leading.

[jefferson_dem]

27. I'm sorry. I honestly don't see how this is insulting to anybody.

...except those who are looking to be outraged and would never vote for "BO" anyway.

[jackson_dem]

34. jefferson, he is basically called them small-minded bigots

That isn't insulting? What is then? This is his "macaca moment"--if the msm decides to cover it.

[jefferson_dem]

45. Bullshit. You are calling them small-minded bigots.

Leaving aside your personal political motivations, can you *honestly* say what he said is not true?

[jackson_dem]

52. In some cases it is but that is 1) neither here nor there 2) not the case for all

O painted with a very broad brush. Most people in small towns are good folks just like those who sip lattes in Chicago mansions. Moreover, just because something is true (which Obama's statement isn't) does not mean it is bigoted.

A true "unity" candidate would never make such a bigoted statement belitting an entire segment of the population.

[jefferson_dem]

64. Oh please. He was not belittling anybody much less an "entire segment of the population."

Don't you wonder what he said at the "..." between the "them" and the "And"?

[jackson_dem]

105. Calling small town folk a bunch of bigots isn't belittling?

[Divernan]

48. No, it was HRC's best friend, PA Gov. Rendell, who specifically called Pennsylvanians racist

What Senator Obama did was explain how prolonged poverty can cause people to react.

[jackson_dem]

50. Rendell isn't running in the PA primary. If he were he would pay a price for it

[Adelante]

51. Remember when he supposedly insulted rural Iowans?

That was an earlier fake outrage run. He was never going to take Iowa, because of it. Heh.

[jackson_dem]

103. What did he say? Did the msm cover it?

[SurfingAtWork]

8. I don't know

I like that he is being :wow: honest, and not being a big ol panderbear saying anything he has to, to get elected.

[Bake]

77. You mean, pandering like he did when he invited McClurkin to SC?

That was pandering. This is just pissing off Pennsylvanians.

Bake

[mrreowwr_kittty]

60. McCain doesn't know the difference between Iran and Al Qaeda

Anyone who votes for him is even stupider than he is. Unfortunately that might be a lot of people but if Obama loses to him in the general it will not be because he didn't kiss the asses of bigoted morons enough. Those people are too dumb to find their own asses with a map and are constitutionally incapable of voting in their own best interest. Screw 'em.

[Faygo Kid]

122. He didn't make the statement to win Penn. He made it because it's the truth.

Maybe too thoughtful and nuanced for an election campaign, but it's also true, and in keeping with his speech on race.

Of course, Hillary immediately pounced on it to twist and misconstrue it when she knows full well what he meant.

No surprise there.

[DemGa]

5. Obama is talking down about these people

As if they are not autonomous in their own thought -- but merely react in some very irrational ways to their circumstance.

Ed. This could be very damaging to Obama.

[jefferson_dem]

11. To speak the honestly about rampant unemployment and how economic hardship breeds frustration ...

during a presidential campaign while offering positive policy solutions to help that very condition

... is talking down about people?

Wow.

[knixphan]

39. He's not condescending at all.

Truth is truth.

Gotta deal.

[dbmk]

84. I don't agree

He is actually saying that it is not "very" irrational.

Whether it good policy - in the sense of pandering to the public opinion - is of course to be seen. But is it a bad thing that he is able to see that there are factors in those peoples lives that need improvement? That he is able to see the broader perspective - and not just paint them as just backwards racists, like Rendell more or less did?

Because that is exactly what he is NOT doing.

It might not be an old school Washington smart thing to do. But trying to spin into a condescending thing is cynical and slightly evil.

[Adelante]

7. Speaking truth to power

As usual.

[Bake]

79. Speaking truth to power? HARDLY!

Do you even know what that means??

He was talking down, not to POWER (he's the one who already has power and is seeking more power) but to the common men and women of Pennsylvania. Speaking truth to power, by contrast, is when someone like Cindy Sheehan sets up camp and demonstrates in Crawford Texas.

Get a clue.

Bake

[Adelante]

110. You get a clue

The American middle and working class is angry and it's bitter, with extremely good reason.

[knixphan]

112. yes, truth/power.

Because the 'power' is the conservative onslaught against the middle class - duping folks into voting against their own self-interests.

Damn right it was truth.

And anyway...Power 'knows' the truth...

I always thought (Like Chomsky) that the phrase should be 'Speaking truth ABOUT power to the powerless'...

[knixphan]

113. -dupe delete-

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. It's absolutely true

The rise of global religious fundamentalism (Islamic, Christian, whatever) tracks exactly with late capitalist economic globalization, as a historical matter. When the community that gave you shelter from the risk of the world starts to disintegrate, it's no surprise that you reach for some stabilizing element (religion, nation, identity, whatever).

Obama is, however wrong: no administration CAN reinvigorate those communities. They're finished, a vestige of a different time, and a different set of social forces. They don't fall through the crack from inattention. They fall through the cracks as a matter of structural necessity. You could no more resuscitate them than you could a feudal lord.

[Frank Booth]

10. Context, apparently, is a thing of the past.

[rodeodance]

115. well. ......

seems to me that Bo should not go to a billionaires house in SF
and talk down to people of PA

[OzarkDem]

13. He's making blanket judgements about people he doesn't know

Can you imagine what would happen if Bush said something like this about a small town of black people?

Obama is a sick, sick person.

[NYCGirl]

17. So you're saying widespread joblessness has no overall ramifications?

Or are you looking for something to be outraged about?

[OzarkDem]

20. His comments weren't about joblessness

They were a nasty put-down of people he doesn't know.

[NYCGirl]

23. So how do you explain "You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and,

like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them…" That's directly from the quote.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

106. OzarkDem also thinks Obama's a Muslim.

I wouldn't take seriously what she says.

[rodeodance]

116. STOP LYING

[Starbucks Anarchist]

125. I'm not.

The original post where her message was deleted but attacked by numerous posters who also repeated her words back to her:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5024202&mesg_id=5024482

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5024202&mesg_id=5024712

And a subsequent thread where the original incident was referred to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5030181#5030470

[OzarkDem]

129. Obama insults the people who live in these towns

then mocks them because they don't have jobs? Is that what he's doing?

Because lack of jobs have nothing to do with the condescending remarks he made about the people who live in small towns. It sounds as though he was using the topic of joblessness as an excuse to insult the citizens.

I've never, ever heard a politician make that kind of remark when talking about joblessness.

[jefferson_dem]

24. "You go into these small towns in PA and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs..."

Read, friend. Read.

[jefferson_dem]

21. Your projecting your own insecurities again.

If you think economic hardships don't produce bitterness and occasionally xenophobic (in group / out group) attitudes, you haven't been paying attention...to 2000 years of world history.

[cali]

28. no. you are sick

completely and totally. you need help- though I suspect there's no cure for your kind of ugly hatefulness.

[DemGa]

32. Yes, he's calling them racist and xenophobic -- but he "understands"

It IS very sick indeed.

[knixphan]

41. Bush lacks the vocabulary to make those sentences.

[Marnieworld]

25. I live in small town PA and this is on the money

But PA isn't all like this though. LV and PHL and PBGH and all of the outlying places with colleges etc are more worldly than this. I think he has appeal in enough places. My hubby went to a crazy rally that sold out so quickly. It will be a lot close in PA that the Hillary people want I am sure.

[Lannigan]

86. I live in small town PA too

Right on the edge of the Valley. This is NOT right on the money, unless you are talking about every middle-aged republican man that lives here.

Not all of PA is like this. Those people are in every state, every town, big and small. He is labeling the PA folk and I for one don't like it or agree with it.

[Marnieworld]

133. I said that it's not like this in the valley

but in the more rural parts. LV has many colleges that also would make it a more worldly area according to my post and not what he was talking about. we agree.

[Not the Only One]

29. It's true.

Hitler was able to rise to power because of the same truth. After WWI, the economy of the Weimar Republic was in total ruin-- massive national debt that couldn't be repaid, inflation, unemployment, etc.-- and Hitler was able to easily get the demoralized and hopeless Germans to blame Jews who he said controlled the economic fortune of the German people. He was basically able to generate a sort of torch and pitchfork mob with himself as the leader of the mob. Republicans play off of people who have lost hope the exact same way. Don't blame Republicans who refuse to invest in your future with better schools and better infrastructure and access to health care and so on. Don't do that! Blame the black people! Blame the secular humanists! Blame the Muslims! Blame Mexico! Blame the world!

Obama is slapping these people in the face and telling them to wake up. Good for him. They are in a daze, a stupor, like they have been drugged up on pain medicine for too long. Stop letting Republicans tell you that it's a pleasant summer rain when they are pissing on you. Start voting for what is actually in your best interest. Stop letting yourself be used by groups that don't really want you to succeed.

[knixphan]

44. exactly.

'Don't piss down my back and tell me it's rainin'...

The only way to fight the cons' lies is with hard truth.

[Divernan]

76. Excellently stated - you have an acute grasp of the situation.

Don't be discouraged at the one-liner insults such an intelligent, fact based post may receive. Keep in mind that many people read these threads who are not here to flame Obama, but may still be trying to decide between the 2 Dem candidates. Posts like yours will win their support.

[Cheap_Trick]

30. oh no....I feel another POUTRAGE a'comin.... n/t

[UALRBSofL]

31. Trust me, this is going to hurt Obama politically

I think Obama got a little carried away and forgot where he was. People in general are not anti-gun, they are not anti-religion, nor do they consider pregnancy a problem to young ladies.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

66. They don't consider pregnancy a problem?

Where do you live where a teenager having an unplanned baby is a welcome event?

[Pirate Smile]

83. Obama isn't anti-gun or anti-religion. I do think many people consider pregnancy in young

ladies (unwanted pregnancies) a problem.

[jackson_dem]

33. Sad, jefferson. What would Jefferson say about you applauding O talking down to common folk?

[jefferson_dem]

42. What would Jackson say about you not being honest about the challenges of economic hardship?

[Bake]

81. Obama started well, but ended badly.

Yes, there are consequences of prolonged joblessness and economic disparity. He started well. He ended badly, though, by calling the salt of the earth people of PA, the ones who have already been shit on by everybody else in Washington, gun-totin' religous nutjob xenophobes. At least that's the part they'll hear.

It's like saying, "your unfortunate economic circumstances have turned you into an asshole." All I'm hearing is the "asshole" part.

Bake

[jackson_dem]

99. He would say focus on those responsible: the corporate actors, don't diss the people

Obama feeds off the corporate trough and then disses the people.

[Divernan]

40. His speech "showcased Obama's core decency and high measure of regard for each individual."

At two town hall meetings in Pennsylvania, Senator Obama drew plenty of remarks about patriotism. In Harrisburg two weeks ago, one person called on by Obama chose not to ask a question. Instead a man who introduced himself as only Dennis told Obama, "Make a speech on patriotism because the Republican Party does not own the flag." In Wilkes-Barre a few days later, Obama fielded a similar comment from a man who said, "I believe that this nation now has dangerously low levels of patriotism and national pride.... My question to you is How are we going to reestablish America's reputation to Americans?" After leaving Pennsylvania and stopping over in Montana on his way to California, Senator Obama must have had these Pennsylvania questioners on his mind, because in Butte and Missoula he talked a bit about patriotism, introducing the subject as a theme we'll likely will be hearing more from him in the future, perhaps in a major speech at some appropriately historic date and time. Barack Obama and the rest of us will owe that to Pennsylvanians.

In the midst of this harsh pastoral, Pennsylvanians are scrappy survivors. They complain (particularly about their governor and Clinton surrogate Ed Rendell, who doesn't seem as popular as the media make him out to be), but they endure. They refuse to be bound to the broken temples of commerce and manufacturing, the vacant Beaux Arts hotels, the rotting nineteenth-century row houses, the abandoned sidings and once-grand railway stations that inscribe Scranton and Wilkes-Barre and diminish Pittsburgh and Lancaster. Pennsylvanians are remarkably chipper. In the end, the material world that once gave them prosperity has not defined them. On the contrary, Pennsylvania unfolds in an interlocking chain of Turkeyfoots and Allentowns, held separately and together by a sense of shared community, of humor, of history, and of abiding faith.

These qualities of hospitality, patriotism and endurance are exactly what Californians need to hear about Pennsylvanians. And when he spoke to a group of his wealthier Golden State backers at a San Francisco fund-raiser last Sunday, Barack Obama took a shot at explaining the yawning cultural gap that separates a Turkeyfoot from a Marin County. "You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama said. "And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." To give Obama his due, he spoke about working class Pennsylvanians likely because he had been thinking about them a great deal. And he spoke, as he often does away from large rallies, in a calm, even, matter-of-fact way. Every town hall meeting I've observed, from California to Iowa, Nevada to Texas, has showcased Senator Obama's core decency and high measure of regard for each individual.

It's curious, then, that he often has such a hard time making a connection with many working class Americans. With plenty of time for people to get to know him, like in southern Illinois before his first state legislature race and in Iowa before the caucuses, Obama has forged that connection. People get comfortable with the way his mind works. Obama is the man with the big picture; he jumps quickly from the particular to the general and back again, for he makes sense of the world in a synchronic rather than a linear way. For all his soaring rhetoric, there is a dispassion about him. And yet he blends rationcinative intelligence with empathetic understanding. This is a rare combination, and for many people, this aspect of Obama takes some getting used to. His Puritanical streak, moreover, while amusing to the press can be off-putting to everybody else.


In answer to the Wilkes-Barre gentleman's question about low levels of national pride, Senator Obama said, in part, that a new generation needs to move into government service, for there is "something big and noble and exciting and important about serving the country." First, however, Senator Obama-- and also Senators Clinton and McCain-- must see us and talk about us in such a way that sets the bar high. A leader will hold us to that standard. "Californians and Pennsylvanians," our next president must say, "find your best selves in one another."

[2rth2pwr]

43. This coming from the "Unity" candidate.

You may find it funny, but he will pay a price for this.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

56. Funny? How so?

[rodeodance]

135. yes, he will

[knixphan]

46. San Francisco.

[futureliveshere]

47. HE IS CORRECT!! Give me a rational reason to disagree that looks at socio-economic reasons please.

Obama is talking about the bigger picture here as to why a community can choose to become more inward looking, protectionistic and fearful of the future when there are fewer jobs to go around and higher prices. People naturally turn towards the comfort zone and resist change in such a scenario.

This is a PLAIN HARD TRUTH and he is being brave saying it. This is common psychology of a large population of people.

Grow up and don't take it personally.

edited to correct a typo

[knixphan]

53. listen to futureliveshere.

[futureliveshere]

95. Thanks knixphan.. You inspired me to put up a post.. You share the inspiration with GWB though

:) :hi:

[knixphan]

102. wow!

I share something with GWB! lol

[Divernan]

62. It requires a minimum level of common sense, life experience & education to approve Obama's commets

I worked at the state level in PA with local government legislation, organizations and the Local Govt. Commission. There are over 5,000 local government units in the state, and many of them are desperately poor and their infrastructures have deteriorated and crumbled. We have hundreds of school districts, and many of them are substandard. We tried hard to get them to consolidate with each other - if only at the level of emergency services (police and fire and ambulance). It's proven nearly impossible. Say you're trying to get a couple of 3rd class townships to agree to merge with a 2d class township (larger). The local govt. in the second class townships balks because the deteriorated 3rd class townships will bring in greater financial liabilities, i.e, property taxes will go up. The 3rd class township elected officials balk at giving up their positions, cause those are the only things that give them any sense of self worth (having lost their pensions, their health insurance and all chance of meaningful employment).

Ever heard of Wall, PA? Didn't think so. Well the people there will tell you that they are Wallites by god, and proud of it, and they're not going to give up their glorious(?) history for those uppity folks in adjoining Turtle Creek!

From Wikipedia, Wall, PA:
As of the census<2> of 2000, there were 727 people, 324 households, and 197 families residing in the borough. The population density was 1,641.0 people per square mile (637.9/km²). There were 363 housing units at an average density of 819.4/sq mi (318.5/km²). The racial makeup of the borough was 97.25% White, 2.06% African American, 0.14% Asian, and 0.55% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.28% of the population.

There were 324 households out of which 22.5% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 40.7% were married couples living together, 13.6% had a female householder with no husband present, and 38.9% were non-families. 35.2% of all households were made up of individuals and 15.1% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.24 and the average family size was 2.84.

In the borough the population was spread out with 19.7% under the age of 18, 7.8% from 18 to 24, 31.8% from 25 to 44, 21.2% from 45 to 64, and 19.5% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 40 years. For every 100 females there were 90.3 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 89.6 males.

The median income for a household in the borough was $26,595, and the median income for a family was $32,500. Males had a median income of $25,500 versus $23,333 for females. The per capita income for the borough was $14,720. About 10.7% of families and 16.7% of the population were below the poverty line, including 40.0% of those under age 18 and 6.3% of those age 65 or over.

Senator Obama is absolutely correct in his assessment of the impact of the last decades on poor Pennsylvanians, and only a political leader who accurately assesses such a problem can work on solving it.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

72. It's exactly what What's The Matter With Kansas was about.

It's a great read if you haven't had the chance.

[SoonerPride]

55. It is true. What's the big deal?

So?

[jefferson_dem]

69. It is true...and only a big deal to those who are offended at being "outed" by Obama's honesty...

or those looking to spin his truism into some cheap political advantage. Nobody believes them.

[aaaaaa5a]

57. I think that statement is 100% accurate....

It reminds me of a book I read a few years ago called "What's the Matter With Kansas?" In the book it talks about why many poor, white, rural voters actual vote against their own best interest. It's the number one reason why vast stretches of America are colored red every election cycle.

Obama's statement is honest and thought provoking. And it could ultimately be his biggest problem. Sometimes I think he's to smart for the electorate.

[knixphan]

74. gonna look for that book!

[biggerfishsmallpond]

58. is there video or just second hand text?

Thoughts

a) agree, truth! How refreshing from a candidate.
b) if there is no video, it will be harder to grab a select, out of context quote, spin, distort and play it again and again on Fox

[Adelante]

124. Here is a transcript

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people are most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.


Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long. They feel so betrayed by government that when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama, then that adds another layer of skepticism.

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What is the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- to close tax loopholes, you know, roll back the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.

There is audio

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html

[Vinca]

61. This must be the first time in the history of the country

a politician has come out with honest statements like that.

[jody]

67. BO's snide remarks about gun owners destroys his recent efforts to cozy up to them. BO is a

political chameleon and will say anything to get votes and as he continues to talk, he reveals his duplicitous, hypocritical character.

See more at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5459134&mesg_id=5459435

[ExtraGriz]

70. his message to them sounded really full of

'HOPE"!!!

frankness and honesty is one thing, but it soundedlike he was mocking them....why not just be really frank and call them rednecks and get it over with.

[UALRBSofL]

73. When will Obama's camp come out with damage control?

I expect a statement from Axelrod any time now

[Divernan]

80. From the author of the linked cite:His speech "showcased Obama's core decency and high measure

of regard for each individual.

So the person reporting the story NEVER wrote anything which "sounded like he was mocking them."

Says something about your biased perceptions. Now, "mocking" is what Bill Clinton does so well, whether it's Senator Obama ("I don't steal cars.") or his own beloved wife ("When they're 60, they'll forget things at 11 o'clock at night too.")

[dbmk]

92. Well..

.. there is actually hope in that statement.

Just calling them rednecks would suggest that it is some final state they are are in. That it is just who they are. Something not to be altered.

Instead he sees the underlying reasons for their current situation - and consequently the need and possibility for a positive change in those peoples lives.

Smart? Perhaps not. But one should think that such smartness was exactly what you didn't want after the last 7 years.
And hoping that such honesty and insight will bring him down if you just spin it the right way, as some here obviously do - whats up with that?
Thats the exact strings of cynical and evil that the right have been playing for decades.

[knixphan]

78. So, what type of folks are most likely to be 'offended' by this type of truth?

Maybe those in denial?

[spoony]

85. He was doing alright until he breezily

lumped together second-amendment rights, concerns over unfair trade, and religious conviction in the one wrapper of "bitterness," as if there's anything wrong with--or particularly bitter about--any of those things.

[Neshanic]

88. Well, well well, Sigmund Obama. His "big therapy couch" approach.

Jesus, where to begin?

How nice to throw an entire group on the couch and anaylize them for their situations. Yes that's it Obama, you mastermind of physchoanalysis. Bitter gun toting religious nuts that hate outsiders. Sounds a bit like you are setting up your excuse for being beaten in Pennsylvania, but that's another story.

I don't know what is more repugnant; his ability AND a free pass to code phrase people into groups, (and we all know what code he's speaking, so no decoder ring required), or his creepy followers parroting this broad stroke of a populace.

Did it occur to you Obama and your brain dead supporters that these are good people that have been promised many things, but just because they have been promised things, this is the explaination that your kool aid does not work here? Yes, that's it. They are all like that, and you can't reach them, therefore there is something wrong with them.

These are people that have been left behind many times, and still do the right things every day, and without your help thank you very much. They raise their kids, go to HS football games, and do the best they can, and it's really the height of pompousness to code them as what you are trying code them as.

The bitter people sound like you and your wife.

What a sickening person he is.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

108. Being a knuckle-dragging sludge-lover is a "human thing"?

Only in your little world MethuenProgressive... :thumbsdown:

[kwenu]

111. More like a Hillary supporter thing. We don't understand but we know you're desperate.

[Bluenorthwest]

93. Why is it that In Pennsylvania

People 'cling to religion' but in South Carolina, it's a 'Faith and Family' tour, inclusive of anti-gay preaching and the whole thing. I don't get that part. Obama himself clings to religion far too much for my taste, and uses it in politics like GW on a roll. How do we determine who is clinging to religion and who is practicing 'Faith and Family'? If clinging to religion is a symptom of poverty and entropy worthy of critical note, then why is Obama parading religion in other communities, even allowing the religion of one group to slander another group of Democrats in the process?
Frankly, a guy who hires the likes of McClurkin to preach and prance for him has some never taking anyone else's religon to task.

[2rth2pwr]

96. If there is video of that, it could be added to this one-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI77cU3jsFs&eurl

editid cawz i kant spel gude

[Starbucks Anarchist]

107. Has anyone read "What's the Matter with Kansas?"

It tackles some of these issues.

[eek MD]

109. Wedge Issues

I don't understand why so many on here are throwing such a fuss over this remark by Obama. (Ok, actually I do... It's the Hillary crowd looking for anything that they can get to tear down the lead vote-getter)

We've known for years that republican politicians have been using wedge issues to turn small-town people against the democratic party. They know that small towns contain a lot of people who use guns for sport.... They know that small towns have more religious people than larger cities....and they know that small towns aren't as ethnically diverse as cities..... Therefore, these wedge issues such as "Gun rights" "Abortion" "Anti-immigration", etc..seem to hold up better....

Amazing that suddenly DU'ers suddenly are trying to deny that wedge issues exist, and are being used against us by the repubs... Boggles the mind... :)

[jackson_dem]

114. Damn. They have audio of it. Tune into CNN now

[last_texas_dem]

118. There is too much honesty in those comments for them to be helpful

I can't see how those will help Obama in narrowing the gap in PA; people don't want to hear *that* sort of "straight talk" from politicians. But I believe what he said is basically the truth.

[zulchzulu]

119. As a response to Clinton's bashing, Obama now can do a big speech on trade and NAFTA

Clinton took the bait as far as I'm concerned.

Obama can now do a big speech on trade and namely NAFTA and how it has hurt the working class in many places, including Pennsylvania. It is a chance for Obama to utterly slam into the Clintons being for NAFTA, especially records now showing that Hillary Clinton was an integral part in trying to get NAFTA passed while First Lady. Of course, she is on record saying she was always "against NAFTA".

Get ready for the speech.

[sueragingroz]

120. der

he just alienated the most important state that he has ever run in.

he threw millions of dollars at them in advertising and then flushed it all down the toilet with his impolitic comments.

Buddy is not ready for the job yet people!

this is absofrikkenlutely hilarioius.

[Faygo Kid]

123. der? What the hell is that?

His comments were thoughtful, maybe a bit nuanced for an election campaign. They were also correct.

But Hillary pounced right away to mischaracterize them, just as if Karl Rove had been her trainer. Which is no surprise anymore.

That's what you want? Fine. For me, I'm tired of those kind of politics. They may work, but they are too late to work for her.

[Hawaii Hiker]

127. Obama is absolutely correct, alot of people

do cling to religion & guns....There isn't a God damn thing wrong with his statement...

[monicaaida]

128. elite what a joke

Obama left his job as a stock broker at the age of 23 to work as a community organizer to help people who lost their steel plant jobs, then after becoming the president at the elite harvard law review he went back to the streets of chicago and took a job fighting for the civil rights of poor people


elite what a joke

[Divernan]

145. I find no documentation for him ever working as a stock broker.

From Wikipedia:
"Obama received his Bachelor of Arts degree from Columbia in 1983, then worked at Business International Corporation and New York Public Interest Research Group before moving to Chicago in 1985 to take a job as a community organizer.<14><15> He entered Harvard Law School in 1988.<16> In 1990, The New York Times reported his election as the Harvard Law Review's "first black president in its 104 year history."<17> Obama completed his law degree magna cum laude in 1991, then returned to Chicago where he headed a voter registration drive and began writing his first book, Dreams from My Father, published in 1995.<18><19>"

Also from Wikipedia;
Business International Corporation (BI) was a publishing and advisory firm dedicated to assisting American companies in operating abroad. In 1986, Business International was acquired by The Economist Group in London, and eventually merged with The Economist Intelligence Unit.

Also from Wikepedia:
NYPIRG is one of the largest of the Public Interest Research Groups, which were innovated by Ralph Nader in the 1970s,<3> operate at the state level, and are members of the umbrella organization USPIRG. (The state PIRGs are today autonomous of Nader and have no partisan political affiliation.) NYPIRG tends to operate autonomous of USPIRG (Citation needed).

[formernaderite]

132. sorry as much as I still support obama

you just can't say people "cling" to guns or religion and expect them not to be insulted. For one thing....depending on where you stand on the gun issue....most of us who are ardent supporters of the second amendment don't feel as if we "cling" to them...it's insulting. The religion thing is another matter entirely....I'm an atheist and I understand that throwing that in as a negative is stupid.

[cornermouse]

134. Serious mistake by Obama.

You can't insult people and expect them to vote for you anyway. Ain't gonna happen.

[scheming daemons]

139. The people he "insulted" have been voting Repug for 2 decades.....

He certainly isn't going to win them over by lying to them like every other candidate has done the past 5 elections.


He told the truth. Those that can handle it, will vote for him. Those that can't, weren't going to vote for him anyway.


They're already Repugs.

[cornermouse]

143. For one thing, Obama has made the crossover vote a big

selling point. He has alienated those who he has cultivated with that single statement. A stupid thing to do.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

142. The issue is that even though what he says may be true

it is not something that wins general elections. Why do Democrats love to lose in the name of self-righteousness?