Clinton supporters who ask why Obama people get pissed at Clinton...

[gcomeau]

"Bitter" gate is a prime example.

We have a candidate who spoke the simple truth. His in context statement was well thought out and got to the heart of a lot of the problems we see in many small towns across the mid west... and Clinton's response was to deliberately snip his remarks out of context and then twist them around to say almost the exact opposite of what Obama was actually arguing. Saying he was "looking down" on Pennsylvanians when he was arguing on their behalf. She took a discussion that Obama was trying to raise to a new level, something we have been BEGGING politicians to to do for years, and dragged it right back down to the sound bite gutter in the hopes of scoring a few points off it.

Within a couple hours the forum is flooded by people echoing this idiocy. "Obama called Pennsylvanians bitter!" "Obama is condescending to Pennsylvanians!" Engaging in the exact kind of politics we get so completely enraged at from Republicans.

Are there people who pull this on the Obama side here on DU? Yes, and they're no better. But Obama himself doesn't go out and actively encourage them to do it the way Clinton just did today. Obama asks people not to jump on stupid little gaffes. Obama asks people not to get carried away in the confrontation between him and another democratic candidate... and then Clinton comes back with this crap.

THAT pisses people off.

[tekisui]

1. And it makes them bitter.

[papau]

2. As if Obama supporters using anti-Hillary RW crap for a year have a leg to stand on

[Texas Hill Country]

3. truth on the internets.

[gcomeau]

4. Read the post, THEN respond.

Spend some time meditating on the difference between what a handful of a candidates supporters on an internet discussion forum do, and what the candidate does themself.

[grace0418]

49. Your comment is proof that you didn't even read the OP before responding. Part of making a

valid argument against something is demonstrating that you read (or listened to) the opposing argument and understood it. Then you disagree and explain why.

The OP acknowledged that there are Obama supporters who sling anti-Hillary RW crap. However the OP noted that the candidate himself asks people NOT to jump all over this kind of nonsense. Conversely, Hillary Clinton (personally, not her supporters) seems to grab any argument the RW has against Barack Obama and echo it herself. That's the key difference.

[roguevalley]

50. your girl can't shake the repug from her past. she has no other goal

but to win, no matter what happens. Go to americablog.com and watch the clip from CNN. It will warm your heart. Trust me. ;)

[merh]

59. Like what?

give examples, give examples of the sexism.

I've been trying to figure what you or others claim to be the RW crap or sexist comments. If I knew what you were talking about I'd be better able to appreciate your concerns or outrage.

[LSparkle]

5. Excellent post -- that's precisely the kind of tactics that turn us off

and make us long for CHANGE -- not just TALKING ABOUT IT but DOING IT.
Conducting a different kind of campaign would be a start, but she's
running like it's 1992/6.

[2rth2pwr]

6. "Obama called Pennsylvanians bitter!" isn't that what he said?

[gcomeau]

8. He did not "call pennsylvanians bitter"

...he explained why some people in small towns are justified in feeling bitter. There is a profound difference.

"Hey, that guy is angry!" and "Let me explain why that person over there has reason to be angry..." are far different discussions. And the latter is one a presidential candidate should be capable of having.

[2rth2pwr]

9. Both examples say the guy is angry.

[gcomeau]

10. Stop oversimplifying.

Do you comprehend the difference between the two examples or not? If you do, stop acting like you don't. If you don't, then we can have that discussion.

[cali]

19. you can't have a discussion with

someone who is deliberately obtuse and is eager to twist facts.

[2rth2pwr]

23. And it's not surprising then they get BITTER, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people

who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

[gcomeau]

25. Stop avoiding the question.

Do you understand the difference between THAT and just "calling people bitter" or don't you? Considering your dancing and dodging when I put a simple and direct question to you I think you do, but you have no interest in admitting it.

[2rth2pwr]

27. I do.

[shadowknows69]

11. If you're not angry you're not paying attention

Or worse you simply don't give a fuck about anyone but yourself. I suspect it's the latter.

[2rth2pwr]

32. Thanks Mr. Bumpersticker.

What happened to the politics of hope?

[gcomeau]

33. Anger and hope

...are not even remotely contradictory things. So, what exactly is your point?

[sudopod]

36. If things are perfect

And everyone eats rainbows and shits sunshine, then hope isn't necessary.

Look out of your window. A keen observer might notice that, contrary to what some people might want you to think, things are not perfect. Sugarcoating the news and shouting USA USA USA isn't going to fix things. Pandering to people's prejudices isn't going to do it either.

We are the ones being tested here. We're being offered the truth, unvarnished and ugly as hell. IF we can look at it without flinching, get off of our fat asses, and DO something about it, then there's hope that we can pass.

That is the hope that we are talking about.

[Kurovski]

39. I don't know about hope,

but cognitive dissonance is alive and well and spreading into some quarters of the Democratic Party.

(This will be a hit and run post, I'll be away for a while.)

[Jed Dilligan]

29. If you're not you're either evil or naive.

[goclark]

12. After 8 years of GW we are all bitter ~ what's News?

[thevoiceofreason]

13. No, here you go, sound-biter

This was just added to the Huffington Post article that started this mess:

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people are most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.


Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long. They feel so betrayed by government that when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama, then that adds another layer of skepticism.

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What is the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- to close tax loopholes, you know, roll back the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-s...

[2rth2pwr]

22. And it's not surprising then they get BITTER, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people

who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

[PaulaFarrell]

43. I agree, it's not surprising

they also turn to alcohol, drugs, suicide, beating the wife, kicking the dog. that's what lack of hope does to you. i'm sure you know that in your heart though.

[CalGator]

56. first-hand, it seems. nt

[2rth2pwr]

58. Obama says he regrets impact of his remarks about "bitter" small-town Americans

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=132&topic_id=5474139&mesg_id=5474738

In the interview, Obama was asked whether he would apologize to small-town Americans who were offended by his quote in San Francisco.

Obama said: "Well look, if there - obviously, if I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that.

[uponit7771]

16. So's the rest of America!!! I've lost 4% of my home equity

[blm]

24. Sure he did, and Kerry insulted the troops - Bush, McCain and Hillary all told me so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[MH1]

52. Interesting to see who she sides with in these things.

Thank you for reminding us about her treachery to Kerry. Democrats should have known then exactly what she is made of.

[blm]

57. Ever see her or Bill find a camera to stand up AGAINST Bush from 2001-2007?

.

[Joe the Revelator]

7. K/R

Great post.

[liberaldem4ever]

14. K & R

[uponit7771]

15. I'm really leaning towards saying FUCK her and FUCK them too. Hillary SUPPORTED NAFTA!!!

[NanceGreggs]

17. And again Hillary throws out a boomerang ...

... and will, yet again, wonder why it comes back and hits her in the head.

Obama approached the topic of why many Pennsylvanians feel bitter or frustrated with governmental policies that have cost them jobs, and did so with a head-on, honest assessment of the reasons behind their skepticism towards politicians in general.

In response, Hillary says, "As I travel around Pennsylvania, I meet people who are resilient, who are optimistic, who are positive, who are rolling up their sleeves."

In other words, she will be deemed by many to have dismissed Pennsylvanians' real concerns as being non-existent, overly exaggerated, or not worth addressing - because, according to her, they're just happy-go-lucky optimists who don't have any real worries about their future prospects.

This will come back to haunt her - just like every other mis-step and mis-statement she has been making for months now.

And once again, she'll wonder why ...

(Edited to add: GREAT post - K & R!)

[gcomeau]

20. You called it.

I just watched the CNN live stream of Obama in Indiana. He has a new section in his stump speech he should keep from here to November, just hammered Clinton and McCain for their statements on this for being totally out of touch with the difficulties people are facing... got a very loud and enthusiastic standing ovation. It was pure gold.

[NanceGreggs]

28. Didn't take long for the boomerang effect ...

... did it?

Honest to God, I keep picturing Hill's campaign staff sitting around saying, "She's not tanking fast enough in PA. What's the next nail can we hand Obama, so he can slam into her coffin?"

[SoFlaJet]

45. here it is courtesy of mnotme in another thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc9PepjyDow

[SoFlaJet]

44. yea it's the old Rush Limbaugh ideal of pulling oneself up

by your bootstraps-fits her like a "T" these days since Fox and his show are where her base now run to when they want to smear Obama...

[Diane R]

18. Exactly. Hillary is desperate and shamelessly exaggerates and spins.

[OzarkDem]

21. And stupid remarks about how Bill Clinton didn't help them

The myth that the Clinton/Gore economy was bad for the US is one of the biggest Freeper myths of this primary.

Nothing makes Obama supporterts look more irrelevant and inexperienced than trying to sell that ridiculous myth.

[AX10]

30. True.

The sad reality is that the left wing is looking for a Marxist "utopia", I call it a hell hole.
Strange thing is that Obama is not going to bring that about. The economy must work for everyone.
That is reality.

[sudopod]

37. OH NOEZ NOT THE COMMIES!

If only Charleton Heston were still around to show those red bastards what's what!

[Hepburn]

48. Care to explain to all of us how NAFTA helped them?

Waiting....

[Imagevision]

26. Hillary is such a phony and her supporters can't pick up on the "Billary's BS.

[Jed Dilligan]

31. Perfect example of the divisiveness that has allowed ultra-rich

like the Clintons to push forward their interests against the interests of most Americans.

[Ilithiad]

34. What?!?!...

"He is in context statement was well thought out and got to the heart of a lot of the problems" So now church clinging gun loving xenophone anti-trade people are a problem? you are out of touch.

[gcomeau]

42. And you...

...are so thoroughly distorting what Obama said it's hard to believe you're not doing it deliberately.

[bigtree]

35. Obama does jump on gaffes and twist them to his political advantage

take off the blinders.

[niceypoo]

38. Obama does it the way Bush did it in 2000 and 2004

He pretends to be above the fray while his supporters do it for him, all in his name, with his tacit approval. Bush 'himself' didn't encourage anything, but everyone knew the swiftboat smears were from Rove.

"Rove developed a template for smearing opponents. The goal was to have his candidates hover above the fray while urging their opponents to concentrate on issues, thereby constantly putting them in a position of having to play defense and deny unfounded accusations. Eventually, the Rove client, according to the script, would step out to demand an end to the ugliness."

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/08/28/moore_rove_swift_boat/">Smear artist

[PBS Poll-435]

54. Exactly.

Some of Obama's more "enthusiastic" supporters spout all the RW bullshit from the 90's and Obama gets to just stand there and say "no, don't do that." While winking...

[Scurrilous]

40. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Eurobabe]

41. Desperate times call for desperate measures from Clinton Camp.

It's becoming so obvious that the CLINTONS DON'T want another Democrat in the White House. They are trying to trash Obama in any way they can (albeit unsuccesfully) so they can try and run in 2012.

I've had it with them. I hope Barack blows her away in Penna.

[totodeinhere]

46. Yes, all of the usual suspects at DU have lined up.

Suddenly they are all outraged. What a crock. They are just looking for any excuse that they can come up with to try to bash Obama no matter what it is. When are they ever going to realize that this sort of nitpicking against our eventual nominee is not helpful to the party or our chances in November? And this latest mantra that Obama has somehow insulted or harmed the working class is ridiculous. If you want to know how Obama regards the middle class, just look at the pro working class policies that he advocates. And BTW, Obama, unlike Clinton, has always opposed NAFTA.

[Bensthename]

47. Obama needs a commercial on PA job loss due to NAFTA with a Bosnia jab.

That would pretty much end her.

[MH1]

51. K & R

[OzarkDem]

53. I never ask that question

Its just accepted as fact nowadays. Obama supporters don't behave like Democrats, period.

[PBS Poll-435]

55. Not all of them, now.

But quite a few sure do. Some, I am positive, voted for Tancredo as a write-in.