Creepy feeling about HRC staying in despite mounting evidence there's no chance for her to win

[Divine Discontent]

Several weeks ago, there was much discussion on the TV about HRC's huge insurmountable lead in PA, and how she needed that big win to keep any hopes alive (something like 65%-70% I read, would be needed to have a real impact) - now with that lead dwindled away to a single digit lead, and in some recent polls, a margin of error tie being remotely possible, it seems rather disturbing that she stays in when she's not going to gain enough delegates to make a real dent in his rather hefty delegate lead, especially with only a handful of states remaining, some of which he will win outright.

With the former president sticking his foot deep down his throat yesterday (once again), and further embarrassing her (once again), I don't like the idea of her sticking around as if she has a chance, because I am very concerned for Obama's safety, and it's too convenient that she'd be still running if something fishy was occurring. Obama is a threat to their corporate claw dictating our lives and pocketbooks, and he's even pushing for people who own stock to have the right to determine CEO pay! That has to totally tick them off!

It really irks me that the disastrous Clinton campaign is keeping this facade going that she has some type of real chance to pull this out, when everything - especially superdelegate momentum is on his side. I almost feel like a conspiracy to circumvent the people's will is coming. I have had visions of events be proven true, and I've shared them beforehand with my closest allies, but I'm not saying I've seen anything about Obama, but it's a general feeling of the obvious along with a feeling of the unseen, that is troubling.

I rarely meet anyone supporting Clinton at work (large workplace of thousands), and, perhaps most importantly, I have a connection with a website that I advertise in the DU Marketplace that sells campaign items, and pro-HRC item sales have dropped over 80% in the past 3 weeks, whereas pro-O items have dropped only slightly. It is obvious her campaign is a fish out of water and miles from the sea. This is information I normally wouldn't share on the net - but, I am asking for people out there of faith to pray for the safety of Obama, and for those who do not believe in a god, I ask to think good thoughts for him, and for all of us to keep pushing on for justice - as there has been so much taken from our country in the past 40+ years, that I hear it barely resembles the country it once was.

Who would have thought 50 years ago that a president would stay on vacation for days after the largest hurricane disaster to ever strike our country, even when he was warned it'd be devastating, and that the same man would sit and read a kid's book, all while knowing we were under brazen attack in NYC and that the WTC had been bombed and there were certainly many dead, and that our country would approve outright torture, that we'd go to war on lies, that our own VP's office would be behind a top undercover CIA operative's outing to retaliate for her husband trying to speak the truth to prevent an unprovoked invasion costing over $500 billion, and finally, that most Americans private calls/email would be watched by the government in room 641A in California - thereby ignoring our Constitutional protections? No one would have dreamed that a president like that would be possible in our America.

We see so much effect of the neo-conservative movement, and the SCOTUS is controlled by them, the warmongers run the White House, and we have a deadlocked Senate. We need change yesterday, and Obama is our best bet for that change, especially for the poor and needy who have been intentionally forgotten by this ruthless money-grubbing elitist cult who have usurped the GOP. I think real Republicans must feel totally lost about where their party went! They were duped with talk of "Christ changed my heart" by the current warmonger, and led down a path of corporate welfare for the past 3 decades.

I'm hoping that we soon hear news that HRC will be announcing her withdrawal from the Democratic Primaries - we need a full focus on the McCain and the warmongers, not a Primary distraction that seems all too troublesome.

[GarbagemanLB]

1. The reason for her staying in is simple: Ego. She feels like she is owed the nomination.

[TheDonkey]

2. She's ready to kill the party

for her ego

[Divine Discontent]

3. one cannot help but believe that to be the case

I have seen many campaigns, and this behavior is troubling. And, WOW, how badly did the former president stick his foot in his mouth, eh? He cannot stop whining.

[blm]

15. People to need to re-examine Clintons' roles in 2000 and 2004, too.

Backstabbing Kerry - Why?
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

Defending Bush publicly from Kerry's attacks on his Iraq decisions for 3 straight weeks - Why?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

Carville sabotaging Ohio Dem voters on election night - Why?
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


Hillary validating Bush and McCain's lie against Kerry in 2006 - Why?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[Divine Discontent]

19. WOW!

that 2nd one I didn't know. The other stuff was par for the course for her 'ascension' to becoming president in '09, I think. Thank you!

[SoCalDem]

36. Don't forget that her run for senator in '00 also dried up

a lot of financial donations that could have/would have gone to Gore..and also sucked a lot of the oxygen out of the room..


Schumer & others worked tirelessly for her, and all but ignored Gore..and stood by mutely, as the press attacked him unmercifully

[blm]

70. EXACTLY - the bigname Dems were all pressed into serving and defending Clinton in 2000

and couldn't be bothered with doing their duty to the PARTY and its nominee.

They had no intention of seeing Gore or Kerry take office. No wonder the election process went unsecured for so long.

[papau]

77. WOW - only Hillary will give us change - Obama campaign said many times "just campaign talk" on his

promises.

They said it to Canada on NAFTA

They said it to Kudlow of CNBC of the passing of all those social programs like health (there is no increase in the deficit because they expect them all to not pass)

They said it to the Scotsman for distribution to the EU for those worried that he might actually withdraw from Iraq in 16 months - as said by Ms Powers of the Obama campaign.

Duty to the party - heck - Obama is a con-job

Obama wants GOP love at the end of the day - he wants our love only until he is elected.

[blm]

83. Way to defend the Bushprotecting Clintons...it would take Obama 20 years to catch up to the level

of fascist enabling and Bushprotection the Clintons are on at this point.

How DOES one top the Clintons when it comes to protecting BushInc, anyway? I doubt even Lieberman is in that ballpark.

[Tesha]

84. The did the same for Ned Lamont over in CT in 2006 so Lieberman, their ally, would win. (NT)

[ClayZ]

46. K and R

[Diane R]

49. Please make this a thread. There are more instances; I believe they sabatoged gore during recount.

[TexasObserver]

59. And don't forget what Bill said. "Am I the only person who thinks both these candidates ...

... are qualified to be president?!"

Or something like that. He clearly signaled that Bush or Kerry was fine with him.

I'm sick of both of them, and will never defend either Bill or Hillary again.

[undeterred]

21. She is taking a lot of people down with her.

My congressperson is a very progressive woman who is faithfully loyal to Hillary and will endorse her come hell or high water, even though our district went 60:40 for Obama.

I made a public statement a few months ago that she could be challenged from the left and some people got mad at me- well guess what, now she has a Democratic challenger who is more progressive than she is. Recently she asked for constituents to send in all their health care horror stories- I'm sure this is so she can send them to Hillary to use in the campaign.

I have lost so much respect for her for supporting Hillary, especially when she is a sponsor of HR676 (but doesn't really believe in it) and we have a good state plan.

[bbgrunt]

52. Tammy's support for her is definitely troubling.

I was also very disappointed in her sponsorship of the bill that made terrorists out of animal rights activists. Do you know if she has any direct ties to the DLC?

[williesgirl]

4. Off to the greatest page - she's disgusting.

[Divine Discontent]

5. thank you! I cannot believe how much I destest her now. eom

[Genevieve]

26. me either. eom

[Divine Discontent]

6. and one has to believe Bill might either be losing it, or is trying to sabotage her! ha EOM

[StevieM]

35. I know, how disgusting of her to stay in a race that Barack want to win. She really should let him

have it even before he has all the delegates locked up. And I know that you're disgust is fact-based, it's not just that you want your preferred candidate to get the nomination or anything.

Steve

[D23MIURG23]

54. Yeah and Gravel should keep fighting too!

The Delegates aren't all locked up, maybe Mike has a chance as well.

I know your post is fact based, it isn't that you are in complete denial or anything.

[ima_sinnic]

62. LOL--it's a waste of time trying to "reason" with delusional people who are math-challenged

in every possible mathematical way, HRC has no chance of gaining the necessary number of delegates, yet "the delegates aren't all locked up yet" is somehow relevant to her pathetic loser campaign.
gee, maybe Kucinich could still get it. :eyes:

[D23MIURG23]

67. Dupe

[D23MIURG23]

69. The real reasoning is that they want Obama destroyed.

Hillary is playing scorched earth, and they are OK with it. Its just that its tacky to admit supporting a loosing candidate's bid to destroy the unofficial nominee, so they are all parroting this easily debunked "extremely close" myth (or a number of equally delusional ones) instead. The sad thing is that Hillary is probably hurting herself more than Obama at this point anyway.

In any case, I like to point out the falacious reasoning when I see it, lest it take hold in people who aren't willfully ignoring reality. Luckily I'm not the only one doing it.

[Zhade]

79. They support a PROVEN LIAR - they left reason behind long ago.

NT!

[ima_sinnic]

63. yeah, it's like saying winning in a series of card games will be 3 out of 5,

and then after a player wins the 3, continuing on because the other player "might" win the 4th and even 5th hands.

asinine.

[elocs]

7. The analogy of 2 players competing for the quarterback position on the same team is valid.

The trouble is that she is willing to break the other guy's legs to get the starting job, even if it costs her team the regular season.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

8. yes she may try to 'break the other guy's legs'

but he's too resiliant to break.

[ima_sinnic]

64. gee, why does that remind me of Tonya Harding?

:eyes:

I think that is one of the best characterizations of this low-class loser's campaign.

[wiggs]

9. I hope candidates quote your third paragraph from the bottom....The GOP

and administration record over the last 7 years is truly horrific and needs to be repeated over and over. Sadly there are far more misdeeds and outrages than you've listed.

I have the same feeling as you...the Obama supporters among people I know in Orange County far outnumber the Hillary supporters. I think there's a LOT more support for Obama than is discussed by pundits or that shows up in polls.

[Divine Discontent]

14. great comment

and yes, there are so many more, and do you ever get like me, where you just feel like there's so much they've done that it gets to be too much to try and explain to people who don't realize it? They have committed massive treason.

[Evergreen Emerald]

10. This is such BS. she is narrowly losing. Obama cannot win either

with the count the way it is. Many states have not even voted. And you want her to quit.

What kind of a democrat are you? YOu don't want people to choose?

If the roles were reversed, you would be outraged at the suggestion that Obama quit.

[Divine Discontent]

16. I'm a Democrat that respected my candidate leaving the race in late January

despite my believing he was the best suited for the position because he could not win. HRC has no believable chance to win. She'd have to drug Obama supporters the night before the few remaining contests to prevent him from ending up with the obvious 100+ delegate lead he's going to end with - and, she's hurting the party by sticking around and attacking him ruthlessly all while she built up McCain with the comments of him brining great experience to the White House (barf) that were repeated and repeated by her.

We know who our candidate is, and no, I wouldn't be outraged if it were reversed. Well, first let me say, I would be shocked that Obama had shown such negative behavior towards Senator Clinton (if he acted the same as she is doing in losing), but then I would be saddened and realize my candidate served my party no purpose in continuing on, and only helped the warmongers by sticking around. Obama was not my candidate, but he is now - because he brings so much excitement and energy to the party that we need to regain the White House. Just watching one rally should tell anyone that.

I respect your opinion, but I politely disagree.

[Liberal Gramma]

17. If the roles were reversed, Obama would have been forced out long ago.

The powers that be in the party would never have allowed him to stay-the same powers that want CLinton because she is part of their power base. It's time for a change!

[undeterred]

22. She cannot possibly win unless the ocean turns to wine.

You are being ridiculous.

[Gore1FL]

43. Narrow?

He has a 136 delegate lead. Including the 566 pledged delegates remaining and the 315 uncommmitted super delegates, she is behind over 15% of what is left.

For her to win she needs 71% of those remaining. She is down in many of the remaining contests, not nearly ahead enough in the rest to meet that pace, is out of money, and has no realistic argument worthy of making up the difference in the super delegate vote.

If that is narrow, I'd hate to here what would be considered wide.

It's like saying being behind five feet isn't two far behind--unless you are racing snails and the one in front is a 1/2 foot from the finish.

This race has been over since Wisconsin. Her lackluster victory in OH sealed the deal.

[Spider Jerusalem]

50. She's losing by over 150 delegates and can't make up the deficit

a narrow loss is a loss (only it's a lot less 'narrow' than you imply). And she has no chance of *winning*.

[defendandprotect]

11. Creepy feeling about those computers and possible manipulation of primaries ---

[dailykoff]

31. Possible? It's been happening since New Hampshire.

And she's still losing.

[Tesha]

85. No, the recount showed a well-counted election in NH

even if Hillary won.

[bigbrother05]

12. The only reason I can think of

as to why Hillary is staying in the race, raising money and buying ADS.

[krypton_son]

13. She'll be out in a few weeks.

I doubt she'll be able to stay in, I give it a few weeks and she'll begrudgingly drop out. Hopefully the end of her political career.

[Divine Discontent]

20. how I hope your thoughts are right! oh, and...

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[onetinsoldier]

18. great post

it does feel like something strange is going on

[Divine Discontent]

24. ty! and I hope we're wrong, but I feel just like you - that something's amiss.

welcome to DU if you're pretty new! :hi:

[KAZ]

23. Excellent post. K&R!

[Divine Discontent]

25. many thanks! eom

[kevinmc]

27. This is her last and only chance at being President ..... she is desperate and a loser. n/t

[Willo]

28. Great post. Stay strong and trust in God. K&R

I try not to worry, simply because it does no good.
I often pray for him and that we'll see a better America start to happen.

[Divine Discontent]

29. Thanks, I really like that - 'a better America start to happen'

I will do as you suggest. I know what would happen if anything happened to him, and I don't want that for our country. I pray for his safety, and will every time I think of him throughout all of this.

Thank you again!

[Willo]

32. I think of Psalms 127 when I feel worried over anything.

especially this part:

"It is vain of you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows,
for so he gives his beloved rest."

:-) Yes We Can!

[Divine Discontent]

37. sweeeeeet! amen EOM

[dailykoff]

30. I worry about that a lot too.

Hillary sticking around like she was actually still in a race makes me think something very evil is afoot. Let's hope it doesn't come to pass.

[Raine]

33. I wouldn't put anything passed them

and they are scarier as they find themselves losing. Their desperation makes them more reckless and dangerous to the party.

[Divine Discontent]

38. I'm expecting a breaking news scrawl to go across the TV screen that says...

"President Clinton bites head off reporter questioning Clinton Library donations". ha. Yes, they are clearly getting more desperate, and scary, and that's why they need to be told by party big wigs every where to just end the farce.

[StevieM]

34. If Obama really had it locked up then there would be no problem here. When Obama has the nomination

we wil know. Right now he doesn't.

This post is just another excuse to call Hillary a bad person. How original. And Obama doesn't have to worry about a backlash because he's guaranteed Clinton's voters, right?

I wouldn't be too sure about that, Barack.

Steve

[Divine Discontent]

39. Steve, if I wanted to call Hillary a bad person, I would just say it

I think she's delusional, or knows something's up, because there's no way she's going to end up with more delegates than Obama, and the pressing point is - he's not going to get to the number that 'officially' ends it, but he will end up with significantly more and relatively the same lead, if not larger, than he has now, all while she goes running around the country trying to say there's no such thing as pledged delegates for heaven's sake! How bizarre and desperate. Leave it to the Clintons to do that, to prop up McCain, and twist Obama's words that people are bitter and upset by failed Washington leaders, into saying he doesn't believe Pennsylvanians are hard-working, or hopeful - as she did blatantly yesterday. She's behaving no better than Romney, Tancredo or the other scores of pathetic GOP losers who failed to stop McSame.

[windbreeze]

56. this post

and this exact attitude is what just might sink this party..I heard someone on the other side say, on another board, that they were afraid, if this went to convention, and she was given the nomination, in spite of the popular vote, and his actual numbers....that his delegates would walk, w/o endorsing her.....sooo, it would make everyone happy to be so damned sure that THEIR candidate is the only one who SHOULD, by RIGHTS??,(what right?) have the nomination...that they'd be willing to throw the whole party and the whole election to the wolves that are waiting with bated breath just for the Democrats to implode...THAT'S REALLY what everyone wants??? CRIPES!!! I can't believe the fucking audacity...People better wake up and think about what they are saying...and think about what they are indicating they'd be willing to do, just to be behind the "right" candidate...I can't believe this shit...

I have asked twice since yesterday...if anyone thought this was a power play between the DNC/DLC for control of or for the destruction of the Democratic party...no one has answered yet...but the fact that she stays in, with all the nonsense going on...gives me a very uneasy and surreal feeling...like there are those who know exactly how this is going to play out, but not everyone is privy to the same information. It does make me afraid for Obama, because it's obvious, that nothing is beyond some of those with power...I can't help but think of Wellstone and JFK Jr....wb

[Mags]

66. Man, do I agree with you. Obama wants her to give it up and give him her votes

what a coward. He is afraid to finish the race. I hope she never gives up.

[Zhade]

80. Her constant proven lies are enough to call her a bad person.

Compulsive liars ARE bad people.

[Kool Kitty]

40. Look, she has the right to stay in the race

as long as she wants to or has the money. I don't think she should be told to leave the race.

[Divine Discontent]

41. she has the right

she is also embarrassing her legacy as First Lady, and Bill is getting well known as a cranky old man who doesn't know when to be quiet. He embarrassed her weeks ago, and yet he had to be yelled at again by her yesterday to shut his yap! There is literally no chance of her passing Obama in delegates, so what purpose, I ask you, does it serve for her to continue parading around the country, trying to persuade PLEDGED DELEGATES acquired through OUR votes, to change to her, and force Obama to spend millions, and energy, fighting off her vicious attacks? She's doing McCain's work - or is that what is supposed to be going on?


Remember, no Democrats are closer to the B*shs than the Clintons.

[Kool Kitty]

42. I agree with all your points.

She has to see that she can or can't win, she has to decide it for herself. That is what I meant.

[Divine Discontent]

44. true, she must be the one to do it. I hope Bill stops egging her on, he is too emotional EOM

[laundry_queen]

45. K&R. Great post.

I think many of us have that same unsettled feeling going on right now.

[Kurovski]

47. They might consider stealing the primary for Clinton,

but they won't steal it for her in the General Election.

She'll just be part of the dunbshow. Playing her part in an election that's "close enough to steal".

[Divine Discontent]

48. yep!

good point Kurovski. I could see her being used the neocons, being told that she would be the next pres in private discussions with the b*shes, but being involved in an election close enough to steal, and thereby just using her desire to do anything to win to make her lose, and I wouldn't be surprised if they taped the convo, so if she claimed anything after they told her, sorry, but it was close, and they decided on mccain, but if you bring it up we'll play the tape of you agreeing to rig the election... nothing is put past these people anymore - I do not trust them at all. Not when people in the world do such horrible things to one another when others aren't looking (like the peace marcher in a bride outfit getting murdered in Turkey, for example - people can be evil and cruel - and for something such as power and wealth - I believe many gyrate to that desire - enough with the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton dynasty - NO THANKS!)

[LaurenG]

51. There is reason to believe she will bow out after Penn

She might even run for governor of NY. I wish her well but not as President, this time. She hasn't learned the value of humility yet something sorely needed in our mass consciousness.

[Why Syzygy]

53. She seems to get new steam with every lie or attack she comes out with.

You speak wisdom. There are other folks holding Obama in prayers and meditations.

I have read one local (self proclaimed) psychic write about HilLIARy and that "the fix is in". This was MONTHS ago.
What I fear that if there is a FIX, it will be FORCED into play no matter who gets hurt.

Thank you for your thoughtful OP.

[mnhtnbb]

55. The powers that be will never allow Obama to be President.

Read into that what you will. If he's elected, he either won't be inaugurated, or he'll only serve a short
while. The powers that be in this country are NOT going to allow the change that this country requires
to restore respect for the Constitution.

[Divine Discontent]

57. well...

A nice DUer wrote me and said to remain prayerful for him, and that he/she too felt the same, but feeling glum will not help but it's good people are discussing this and praying for him.

What I found interesting and thought provoking with your comment is that feeling that they won't allow the changes needed to bring this country back to the standards of Constitutional respectability, and my sibling said, 'Obama needs to pick a VP then that knows how he feels about this all, if he's taken down'


bless us, as I don't want this country to lose Obama before or after this election, like our country did with JFK/RFK...

[mnhtnbb]

58. I would like nothing better than to be wrong. Believe me.

[defendandprotect]

73. I have very much also felt that fear --- currently I most fear the computers . . .

[crankychatter]

60. from the movie Gladiator

"First, they must kill your name"

They don't have to shoot them anymore, since Clinton and others gave them such expanded control of the media...

but it's getting to where people are not buying the smears anymore so...

Yes, we should pray if we believe...

This has been a good thread...

I'm going to hug the whole damn bunch of ya's

(((((((((all ya'all))))))))))))

[liberaldem4ever]

61. What a thought provoking post-proud to k&r

I cannot wait until this whole primary season is over. And I have always enjoyed the process of choosing a candidate and have looked forward to an election year every election since 1968 when I was 6 years old and my Papaw started teaching me about politics. This time really feels different because people are so divided over who to support. I just hope and pray that Obama is our candidate. He will make such a great president.

[Mags]

65. You Obama folk, are so scared to let this play out. Hillary doesn't owe

you or anybody else except her supporters, who are about the same as Obama. We don't want her to drop out. She has a right and the rules to go to the convention. Give it a rest.

[Zhade]

81. You wish SO HARD that we were scared, it's almost precious.

We have nothing to fear from your failed liar of a candidate.

[ima_sinnic]

68. I have had an uneasy feeling, too, because I know what they're capable of

they have no soul -- without batting an eye, bush et al. invaded a defenseless sovereign nation and rained down mass murder and terror, for no good reason at all, and who knows how many have perished in that, how many lives have been made tragic forever because of it, what the true extent of the suffering and pain. and they just DO.NOT.CARE. Their greed and madness for power is like a great sickness that is bringing down the entire world.

Hillary being next in line was, I think, planned a long time ago. She makes a good front for the evil, a seeming "democrat, " a woman to boot, and thus associated with a kinder, gentler administration--but that would all be so much smoke and mirrors.

what they didn't count on was this fly in the ointment of Obama. The People are rising up and they don't really know what to do about it. I can only hope it has reached critical mass--sometimes I believe it has--and nothing can stop it--but there have been some very fine people who have been offed and silenced in the last fifty or so years. Jut pray that PA is devastating for her, so it is obvious that she MUST now bow out.

[bvar22]

71. There is another reason.

Hillary's BIG MONEY backers, and the DLC Leadership would rather have a Republican president than a REAL Democrat who is not beholding to their established hierarchy.
Business as usual!

Thats why the Big Money Republicans are crawling out of the woodwork to support Hillary's futile quest to stay the course in her losing campaign.
Rupert Murdoch, Mellon Scaiffe, Grover Norquist, Ed Rollins, Rush Limbaugh, John McCain...ALL have joined Hillary in attacks on Obama this week. They don't want anything to happen to their Money Machine.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[defendandprotect]

74. Even suggestions that they be reigned in cause squealing . .. remember the

Chamber of Commerce threat to Edwards/Kucinich about their populist stands ---
they were going to raise . . . what was it . . . $60 million to attack them --
I think it was mainly directed at Edwards --- ???

[defendandprotect]

72. HRC may be waiting for the computers to make her another come from behind kid???

[Joanne98]

75. The Clintons are acting like they're going to die if they can't win the WH

[blm]

76. Maybe Bill's legacy when books are opened up is that he protected BushInc way more than anyone knows

at this point. And why both Gore and Kerry had to be undermined and sabotaged before they could access those documents.

[cooolandrew]

78. You cna feed negative energy. Think of him with love.. Added to this HRC too..

[NoBushSpokenHere]

82. I have been very concerned for Obama's safety

I have also been concerned about the "why" question of Hillary staying in the race thus far. The longer this goes on, the more I am convinced she is hoping to be asked to quit. If she is, then she will use it as an excuse to be McSames running mate. The dynasty is not going to give up power easily.