The Obama Test -- Are Americans Scared of the Truth?

[Armstead]

That's what the current flap about Obama's comments are about. That's what the flap about Rev. Wright was about.

That was even what the crap about "hope" was about.

I was kind of lukewarm about Obama for a long time. But the more he says, the more I say "Amen."

Obama is Absolute-fucking -ly correct in his comments about bitterness and resentment, and how it gets channeled into side issues.

That's what "What's the Matter With Kansas?" was about. That's what people at DU have been saying for years.

What was outrageous is the fact that a big-time presidential contender is actually saying it out loud. And not sugarcoating it.

You know Obama is correct. Don't pretend to be "shocked" by his "elitism."

Once again, Obama identified a core problem and put his finger on the pulse and made an accurate diagnosis.

Of course his rivals and the Media Poodles will try to spin it around. But Screw Them.

The Big Question is whether Americans will acknowledge it, and be grateful someone is actually saying what they all know.

[ClassWarrior]

1. I'm grateful. Thank you Senator Obama. Thank you for the truth.

NGU.

[whistler162]

6. Al Franken said it best....

when describing love of ones country but it holds true when the truth is spoken by politicians such as Senator Obama did.

"Loving Mommy

As Franken sips a Diet Pepsi at his hotel before the bookstore appearance, he bemoans how conservatives took control of talk radio in the 1990s while liberals were silent. He says that illustrates the difference between the two sides.

"It was right-wing people obsessively wanting to hear their own ideas confirmed, and liberals being content to listen to National Public Radio and get information."

He says conservatives love their country the way a 4-year-old loves her Mommy: unconditionally. Anyone who criticizes Mommy is bad.

By contrast, liberals have a "grownup love" for their country, Franken says. They take the bad with the good and help their loved one grow.

"

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/10/26/Floridian/Left_brained.shtml

A slap upside the head is not always a bad thing!

[ClassWarrior]

13. I remember that. How true.

I sense that people are hungering to be treated like adults.

NGU.

[kentuck]

2. and the truth when tied to a populist message...

seldom loses.

Many heads have been buried in the sand for 16 years. It will take a while to clean the sand out of their eyes...

[Armstead]

4. More like 28

Bush 8 -- Clinton 8, Bush Sr. 4, Ronald Reagan 8....28 years of uninterrupted Bullshit.

Here's hoping we can break the string this time.

[kentuck]

8. Yep..

I guess I was just counting the years after we peaked?

[JI7]

3. the Clintons don't want the truth out there

in their world the Bushs are good people.

[silverweb]

5. Absolutely correct.

The truth is often hard to hear and, sadly, Americans are used to being lied to and pandered to.

Pretended outrage in the face of the truth is just a defense mechanism from those who fear hearing it.

[SeattleGirl]

7. I think you're absolutely right, Armstead.

A lot of people don't want to hear that America doesn't treat everyone fairly.

A lot of people don't want to hear that there are still racial problems in this country.

A lot of people don't want to acknowledge that there ARE bitter people out there who, even if they don't realize it, are channeling that energy into voting "god, guns, and gays". To acknowledge that bitterness, and what it's really about, would probably be too frustrating, and for some, to scary ("You mean 'murka ISN'T as great as I've been told to believe?")

A lot of people don't want to look at themselves and see the truth there, because in addition to shining a light on their own truth, they would also have to shine the light on the many ways this country is failing to even TRY to live up to its ideals.

So, many of these folks want to marginalize Obama, want to say that he is being hateful or whatever, instead of listening to what he's saying, and then saying themselves, "Maybe there really IS something to what he's saying." Instead, they want to keep their heads buried in the sand.

[Armstead]

10. That's the ultimate test

Whether enough people are willing to admit to themselves what they already know. And, at the same time, have enough confidence and optimism to believe that it is actually possible to do something about it.

[PurityOfEssence]

14. And how is ANY of that going to get him elected?

I don't post much anymore because the folly of our collective enterprise is currently so silly: both of our candidates are so thoroughly flawed that electability is a HUGE question and would cause my spirits to flag even if I liked them or could stomach their ultra-centrism.

How the screaming hell does anything you've said make him electable? I read endless posts stating bald facts and making summations based upon them that are simply contradictions. Yes, the country's pretty damned racist and most people don't want to hear that, so how is stating it going to help?

The only logical connection in these irrational screeds is that of the cult of the personality: he's such an exemplary human being that the very halo of his personality will imbue one with the beatific grace to rise above the muck and hover in ecstatic glee and carry the torch of righteous whatever to some misty land of togetherness. It's just plain silly.

He's shockingly vulnerable to attacks on his patriotism, whether fair or not. He's vulnerable on the subject of elitism in a country whose politics are notoriously and nauseatingly anti-intellectual. He's fucked around and cozied up with religion to piss off people like me to no end, and now he's pissing off the believers he's so actively courted.

The rational disconnect is nothing short of breathtaking: Wright will be a benefit to him, say the faithful. On what conceivable planet could this occur? The man's a millstone of the worst sort, and he leaves Obama with the choice of further foolishness or being seen as disloyal.

Supporters glory blissfully in his every misstep, since each bumbling bit of tone-deaf sloppiness will somehow give more lift to his unstoppable personality's appeal. It's nuts.

[Armstead]

15. POE -- You're totally misreading the picture here

As I stated in my original post, I was lukewarm towards Obama. Much of it for the same reasons you expressed.

So I am not some blind Obama fanboy.

But the more I hear the more I realize that this guy does really GET IT.

And the fact that he is saying what many people are thinking does enhance his electability.

Maybe you ought to accept that perhaps Obama is actually talking to voters like grown ups. And that voters -- who have been tuning out the bullshit they've been fed for so many years -- might actually appreciate that.

[ClassWarrior]

16. Some people must just prefer the bullshit.

Some like to wallow in it while others like to pretend they're above it.

NGU.

[PurityOfEssence]

22. I wasn't responding to you, you'll note...

"Cling to religion" is a death-phrase. It evokes images of pathetic fear and folly. It connotes a dismissal of religion as a form of weakness, and that'll be thrown back in his face with glee.

How the hell does this enhance his electability?

I was taking issue with someone else's blinkered hero-worship, not your thread-starter.

The level of silliness is incredible; people actually say that populist messages laced with truth are historical winners. Apparently Mondale's honesty about raising taxes fades from the memory.

This is just incredible. That so few people seem to see it is depressing. Note how many other posters come to the same conclusion, and they're not just Clinton supporters.

Enough. There's nothing incorrect about what he said, but the saying of it is beyond foolhardy.

I'm aghast at the level of irrational idolatry of this man. He's not a great speaker. He's not a tactical genius. He's not a populist. He's not a steadfast champion of the weak. He's just not.

When I listen to him in an interview, he seems fairly honest and rational, but when I hear him speak, I go into a full-body cringe. Perhaps it's just a lingering distaste of religion and his preachery intonations, but he also has clunky inflections and speaks in broad, facile smearings of pablum, and it reeks of just what I dislike most about politicians: cheesy expediency. What's continually amazing is how others hear this and hear precisely the opposite.

What many of his supporters need to hear is that these ranklings that I and others have come from MANY quarters, not just the murky evil shadows of reactionaryland.

This was a disastrous quote, and hearing the audio makes it just worse because of the conversational tone of it: it's a dismissive (although sympathetic) bit of condescencion.

[Ilithiad]

25. Great post....

could not have said it better myself. I too cringe up inside my soul when I see this man speak...I grew up in a small town much like those in PA. Many I know are from small towns and would not look kindly upon Senator Obama's statements. Being called a racist to your face is offensive true or not. "cling to relion" is a death phrase for the democrat chances at the white house this time. Democrats need to stop dismissing religious voters. "clinging to religion" as another dismissal of a voting block democrats need to really connect with and gain support from or republicans will trounce us every time. There are millions and millions of christians out there and we need to find a way to pull them away from the republicans and Obama's statements is counter productive. As for the truthfullness of Obama's statements...who can say but small town pa voters? They will say what they think of Obama's rhetoric in 10 days...and it will not be in his favor.

[ClassWarrior]

30. "The losing strategy is..."

...to move to the right, to assume with Republicans that American values are mainly conservative and that the Democratic party has to move away from its base and adopt conservative values. When you do that, you help activate conservative values in people's brains (thus helping the other side), you offend your base (thus hurting yourself), and you give the impression that you are expressing no consistent set of values, which is true! Why should the American people trust somebody who does not have clear values, and who may be trying to deceive them about the values he and his party's base hold?

http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/research/lakoff/no-center-no-centrists

NGU.

[Tom Rinaldo]

35. Obama committed the cardinal sin of controversial generalizations

Not only did he venture into dangerous territory but he did so without use of the obligatory self limiting preface "there are some who" instead of boldly saying "they". It seems almost foolish that something like that makes a difference, but it does, because it shifts the burden of doubt. When a large group gets potentially tarred in whole by a statement, a listener who identifies with that group naturally demands proof that he or she isn't among those being talked about that way. With an escape valve built into the preface, something like "some folks living in small towns..." the listener is left freer to actually agree without feeling attacked him or her self, as in "yeah I know some people like that around here, he could be talking about Joe across the street."

It is just basic political skills to avoid statements that can be viewed as negative broad based put downs of any group, whether or not a put down was intended. And when such generalities are demanded by circumstances to be addressed, the qualifying "some" has to be second nature.

Like you said, there is no doubt in my mind that "bitter" wasn't the core gaffe word used by Obama (though angry would have been a better choice) it was "clings". Clinging is universally perceived as a sign of weakness, and that which one clings to is the crutch.

[scheming daemons]

9. I have faith in the American people and their intelligence....

..that they will respond favorably to a candidate that doesn't talk to them on a second-grade level.


People are looking for the anti-Bush.


Hillary ain't it.


Obama.... as it becomes clearer every day.... is.

[TahitiNut]

11. I've also been finding myself in complete agreement with his rhetoric.

His response to the Wright flap was almost perfect. He described our current racial divide at the "center" quite aptly. I'd like to hear more about solutions, but I'm not naive enough to think that's something that can be condensed into a 10-second sound bite or YouTube video.

When he describes how the "hot button" wedge issues are being used as distractions by politicians to evade addressing the decimation of the working class and the small factory towns all across the country, he's dead nuts on ... perfectly articulated in a way that resonates with "Reagan Democrats" and Perot refugees.

He's an incredibly appealing candidate. His credibility would be far greater if the policy positions he's presented were closer to Kucinich than Clinton and the right-wing. His policy positions are barely to the left of Clinton's. At the same time, his track record isn't littered with the outright abominations that litter Hillary's.


The more I examine the political compass over the years, the more I agree with it.

[misanthrope]

12. It ain't just Americans...

...Most humans come unglued when they hear the unvarnished truth about themselves.

[2rth2pwr]

17. You guys will have to settle on one meme. The one that says that "his words

have been twisted and taken out of context" doesn't match the one where "Obama is speaking truth so get over it".

[scheming daemons]

18. The full text of his words are the truth.... the paraphrasing that YOU are doing is taking it out

of context.


Both "memes" are true.

[2rth2pwr]

21. the clinging to religion, guns, and hatred of others is being

called the hard truth that no one has had the balls to talk about,and at the same time when someone saays that is condescending

the claim is that it is out of context!!

Same thing, show me the difference.

[Armstead]

19. I realize some people can;t handle more than one concept at a time...

but try practicing and I'm sure you'll learn to walk and chew gum at the same time.

[ClassWarrior]

20. As foreign as it may seem to you, not all candidates' supporters...

...are blind zombies.

NGU.

[davidpdx]

23. Unfortunately

Both of the other candidates are playing to the lowest common denominator and trying to scare people into voting against him.

The Clinton campaign and their supporters have called Obama's supporters cultists, snobs and liberal elitists. This has and will continue to fracture the party.

[info being]

24. I agree

Those people on DU who are so outraged were certainly not on DU a few years ago.

[earth mom]

26. The working class is bitter-but they know b.s when they see/smell it & Obama is full of it.

:puke:

[FrenchieCat]

27. How's that? Please elaborate on the b.s. that you speak of.

[earth mom]

36. A corporatist like Obama is not going to do anything for the working class & they know it.

So all this talk of Obama's is NOTHING but pure bullshit. :puke:

[ecdab]

28. You are correct sir. What Obama addressed has been a topic

among Democrats for decades - "why do some people vote against their best interests?"

Your Reference to "what's the matter with Kansas?" is spot on.

I am unsurprised that McCain would be trying to spin the heck out of what Obama said - it's a truth McCain can not afford to be discussed. Republicans have funneled this nations money to the top and managed to still score votes among those they have disowned by playing on less tangible issues. But why in the world would Hillary start spinning an issues that is so fundamental to the Democrats and try to turn it against the party she is supposed to be a part of?

The fake outrage among Hillary supporters is quite odd as well - why the outrage now, why not be outraged for the last few decades that the Democrats have been discussing this, why no outrage when this has been a fairly constant topic on DU since its inception?

[kentuck]

29. There seems to be a disconnect here on DU...

Most folks here have been bitter for the last eight years. So bitter they can taste it. But we have always held out hope that things could change. Now, some are acting like hypocrites.

[kwenu]

31. It's not that they are afraid of it. It's just that they are so unused to it. They don't know how to

react when they hear it from a politician. It's like wait, aren't you supposed to be lying to us?

[Armstead]

32. That's why I framed the OP as a question....

I hope that once the initial surprise wears off people will say "Damn right."

[Mme. Defarge]

33. Are Americans Scared of the Truth?

I say NO! HELL NO!!!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

34. The standing O(bama) in Indiana answers your question. nt