In all seriousness, why is it so difficult for Obama to

[cboy4]

apologize about Donnie "gays are evil" McClurkin?

Will he lose the election if he does? Is that the problem?

Do you have any regrets about the South Carolina tour? People there are still sort of mystified that you gave Donnie McClurkin the chance to get up onstage and do this, and he did go on sort of an antigay rant there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dUp16hFzY8 :puke:

I tell you what -- my campaign is premised on trying to reach as many constituencies as possible and to go into as many places as possible, and sometimes that creates discomfort or turbulence. This goes back to your first question. If you’re segmenting your base into neat categories and constituency groups and you never try to bring them together and you just speak to them individually -- so I keep the African-Americans neatly over here and the church folks neatly over there and the LGBT community neatly over there -- then these kinds of issues don’t arise.

The flip side of it is, you never create the opportunity for people to have a conversation and to lift some of these issues up and to talk about them and to struggle with them, and our campaign is built around the idea that we should all be talking. And that creates some discomfort because people discover, gosh, within the Democratic Party or within Barack Obama’s campaign or within whatever sets of constituencies there are going to be some different points of view that might even be offensive to some folks. That’s not unique to this issue. I mean, ironically, my biggest … the biggest political news surrounding me over the last three weeks has been Reverend Wright, who offended a whole huge constituency with some of his statements but has been very good on gay and lesbian issues. I mean he’s one of the leaders in the African-American community of embracing, speaking out against homophobia, and talking about the importance of AIDS.

And so nobody is going to be perfectly aligned with my views. So what I hope is that people take me for who I am, for what I’ve said, and for what I’ve displayed in terms of my commitment to these issues, but understanding that there’s going to be a range of constituencies that I’m reaching out to and working on issues that we have in common, even though I may differ with them on other issues. And that’s true, also, by the way … well, I think that’s going to be true so long as I’m reaching out beyond the traditional Democratic base. http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_id53285_Page3.asp

========================================================================================

No Barack, "...trying to reach as many constituencies as possible and to go into as many places as possible..." is not and acceptable reason for embracing bigots.

Absolutely not.

So here he had yet another chance to apologize, and what does he do? He makes a lame excuse, then changes the subject to Wright and then ends with a campaign speech.

A lot of what he says sounds good. You bet.

But the key is whether he will follow through.

We know he will embrace homophobes because he's *cough, cough* trying to reach as many constituencies as possible.

Really, are there no lines in the sand Barack?

The fact that I don't believe there are any lines makes me worry that he will do whatever is the most politically advantageous at the moment...even if it means breaking pledges about Don't Ask, Don't Tell and DOMA.



Donnie McClurkin

Views on homosexuality

Although he identified as gay for several years, McClurkin states that he is now an ex-gay. In his book Eternal Victim, Eternal Victor McClurkin wrote that homosexuality is a spiritual issue and thus one can be delivered from it by God;

"The abnormal use of my sexuality continued until I came to realize that I was broken and that homosexuality was not God's intention... for my masculinity."

He then describes himself as going through a process by which he became "a saved and sanctified man". McClurkin has stated that homosexuality is a curse.

Political involvement

McClurkin's listing as a headlining performer for Senator Barack Obama's 2008 Presidential campaign has stirred controversy because of his views on homosexuality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnie_McClurkin

[MonkeyFunk]

1. Not to mention that Rev. Wright's views on AIDS

are ridiculously stupid.

[JoFerret]

68. McClurkin, Meeks and all the other bigots, boneheads and

blowhards

[leftofcool]

2. Or small town Americans are gun toting bigots

because they are angry about their lot in life.

[gaspee]

3. Now you've done it

You hysterical gay, you!

I wonder what would happen if Senator Clinton or McCain tried to embrace the racist skinhead movement because they're trying to reach out to people with opposing views.

[cboy4]

5. Mmmmm. I like how you think!

;)

[Bluebear]

64. 'You hysterical gay, you!'

:)

[flor de jasmim]

4. In all seriousness, people are COMPLEX - they are made up of more than 1 characteristic

He wants people to be able to TALK to one another - what do you want him to do, slice-and-dice us up and only put pieces together that match? Great coalition that would be...

[cboy4]

6. So let me make sure I understand your point....you're

arguing it's okay to embrace bigots -- even include them as part of his "coalition" -- because he wants dialog?

Does that mean he should also hire antisemites and white supremacists as well .. you know, to be able to "TALK" to one another?

That's crazy.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. Probably the same reason it's well-nigh impossible to get Hillary to apologize for her IWR vote.

Neither of 'em is perfect, sadly.

[cboy4]

9. Not to defend her IWR vote -- because I don't ....but at

least is wasn't an issue limited to a certain class of oppressed individual.

It didn't affect just gay people or black people or brown people, etc.

It affected everyone, unlike the McClurkin controversy which only really affected gay people.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. And I'm not going to try to defend the McClurkin thing. To me, it smelled bad.

But- and again, this isn't trying to defend it- at least it didn't directly cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, over 4,000 American troops, and cost the United States Taxpayer upwards of half a trillion dollars and counting.

[cboy4]

34. Well, we're certainly both on the same page about the

war.

I just respectfully believe comparing McClurkin to the Iraq War is apples and oranges.

[JoFerret]

63. Homophobia kills

Stop obfuscating.

[dkf]

8. Why take on McClurkin...take on the church instead.

He's just spouting typical church doctrine.

[cboy4]

10. Because he didn't invite the church that night......he invited

an individual.

Delving into church doctrine is an essay.

But one can easily control such doctrine by refusing to provide a bully pulpit.

[tekisui]

11. He association with McClurkin is my biggest disappointment.

I don't want people like that around Dem Presidential Candidates.

And, I don't want the Dem Tent to welcome homophobes.

[cboy4]

12. It's a huge disappointment.....some Obama supporters

enjoy dismissing the issue as no big deal.

But it is a big deal. They apparently just don't get it.

[tekisui]

13. It is a big deal.

It runs counter to what a Progressive movement is. When Kennedy endorsed him, the speech changed to include gays, but that's not enough. He needs to come out and champion full equal rights, without conditions. But, he also should have never had that homophobe campaign with him.

[susankh4]

14. I'd like an answer too.

Thanks for asking!

[kdpeters]

15. The post linked herein says it all much better than I can

It pretty well captures everything. It's a little bit long, but I hope you read it to the end.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5462777&mesg_id=5462777

[cboy4]

18. Yea, I struggled through that garbage post earlier. I'm

not sure what it has to do with Obama allowing a homophobe to rant at his campaign event and then refuse to apologize.

Maybe you can answer my question in your own words kdpeters, instead of answering in the form of a cut and paste link.

[kdpeters]

20. There is nothing at all to gain from the exercise

It's just a grudge at this point and some of the gay folks around here remind me of right-wingers who can't address anything without turning it in to something about Clinton. If that's the way you want to be, then you are not part of the solution. You're part of the problem.

[cboy4]

31. Riiiiight... but on the other hand, you're just a bundle of

solutions, aren't you kdpeters.

[Lyric]

58. You know, if someone here had said

"It's just a grudge at this point and some of the black folks around here remind me of right-wingers who can't address anything without turning it in to something about Clinton. If that's the way you want to be, then you are not part of the solution. You're part of the problem."

If someone had said that, we'd all be screaming RACIST! at the tops of our lungs. You don't pick out a group of oppressed people for criticism, kdpeters. Oppressed minorities have a right to hold any fucking "grudge" that they want to. They're the ones who suffer when bigots are catered to by spineless leaders. There's a difference between baseless resentment and resentment with cause. Gay people have cause to resent someone who thinks we should give homophobic psychos a "voice at the table", just like black people would have cause to resent someone who claimed that the KKK deserves a "voice at the table". Trying to spin it otherwise marginalizes the suffering of the oppressed, and gains you nothing but deeper and deeper resentment.

Telling GLBT folks who are pissed at Obama that they're just holding a needless little "grudge" is about as counterproductive as you can get, if you're trying to defend your candidate. It just makes people even angrier, because now they feel trivialized by not only Obama himself, but also by his supporters.

[cboy4]

59. Oh oktoberain, very, very impressive essay.

You said it much better than I did.

And thanks :)

[Hepburn]

16. Why is it so difficult for Queen Hillary and her Crown Consort William

....to admit she is a fucking liar?

[cboy4]

19. Excellent job refusing to answer the question hepburn.

I can't say I particularly blame you, however, since it's impossible to defend his actions (and still consider oneself a Democrat/progressive).

As you know, nothing Hillary has purportedly lied about affects the civil liberties of gay people.

[Hepburn]

23. Hillary does not give a shit about anyone but herself....

...so how in the hell could she care about the civil liberties of any group?

:eyes:

[kentuck]

17. Or why is it so difficult for him...

to wear a flag pin on his lapel? Or go to Memphis to honor Dr King? Why does he refuse to go along with all these folks?

[babylonsister]

21. Why is it so difficult for you to find something else to bash Obama

on? You know you want to. This story is 'so' yesterday, but it pops up regularly. Come on, update the hate! :eyes:

[Hepburn]

24. And he wonders why I riffed over another bullshit thread on this.

Let's face it ~~ there are very few in the US who give a shit about the rights of the citizenry....let alone the rights of any minority. I don't see why the hell the OP is so surprised.

Frankly, most any group that does not fit into: Male, white, moderate, mainstream and straight....they ALL face problems. This is a nation built on Ike being the role model for what is great.

[ruggerson]

28. Come on

civil/human rights are never "yesterday."

And if we are to believe Obama's interview in the Advocate and take him at his word, he wants gay groups to hold his (and other leaders) feet to the fire, because he doesn't think it is the responsibility of elected officials to fight for certain rights.

So, the OP is only doing what Obama himself would be applauding.

[cboy4]

33. No babylonsister, this is very news worthy. He just gave

his first interview to a major LGBT publication since last fall.

Don't be furious at me for bringing up the fact that Obama once again decided not to apologize when asked about the debacle.

Here he had this golden opportunity.

And if the incident is causing people to choose not to vote for him because they think he's untrustworthy, then it's hardly a "so yesterday" story.

You're a smart person, and you know that.

You're obviously upset that I'm not one of the people who are on board with your candidate. Fine, that's understandable.

But this issue is more important than you apparently understand.

As nice of a person as you are, you don't get to choose which issues are important to gay people.

[donheld]

41. He needs to learn to sing more songs

The Donnie McClurkin sonata is the only song he seems to know.

[cboy4]

46. It's an important song donheld.

It's tragic you fail to recognize it.

[donheld]

49. yea, yea, yea,

Whatever you say.

[JoFerret]

71. It's about something as trivial

as human rights my friend.
That's why it's the same "old song".

[JohnnyLib2]

22. You-may-not-criticize.

Odd development, isn't it?

:grr: :hi:

[Schema Thing]

25. Obama opened up a dialog in the Black community

with McClurkin.

He used that dialog to point out that homophobia is unacceptable.

He'll accomplish both change AND votes. And with those votes, he'll lead even more change in the black community wrt homosexuality.

It really is all good.

His way is simply the better way Cboy4, if eliminating bigotry is the goal.

[Berry Cool]

26. I hope so.

It's my one big disappointment with him.

I think Obama has a way to go himself when it comes to gay acceptance. This doesn't make him rare among heterosexual men; in fact, it makes him all too common. He isn't as far evolved when it comes to this area of life as he is in others. I am hoping that time and experience will make him more so, and I think that he shows more potential for that than our other two candidates, for sure.

[Schema Thing]

27. I'm curious what make you think this:

"I think Obama has a way to go himself when it comes to gay acceptance. "

?



Has he said anything that would lead anyone to believe he doesn't accept gay people as equals?

[cboy4]

36. What exactly did allowing McClurkin to perform accomplish

AchtungToddler, aside from making a bunch of crazy ass fundamentalists happy?

Did you hear McClurkin's anti-gay rant? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dUp16hFzY8

Appalling with a capital "A".

Obama should have grabbed a hook like you see on cartoons and yanked McClurkin's ass off stage.

If Obama doesn't have any fear about lecturing the black community about homophobia, he shouldn't have any fear about telling homophobes (McClurkin), "sorry, you're sending the wrong message. Your message is not one of hope and change. You're free to say whatever you want, but not at one of my campaign events."

[donheld]

42. What exactly did allowing McClurkin to perform harm?

Aside from making a bunch of whiny butts on DU angry?
If he hadn't had Donnie McClurkin perform, you and a few
others, would have had nothing to talk about on DU for
the last 6 months.

[cboy4]

47. You need to get a clue don if you cannot compute

what kind of harm was done.

Are you sure you're progressive?

I can't tell.

[donheld]

48. No I'm not, you are the only progressive that ever existed

Anything that is different from what you say is just totally republican.

[cboy4]

50. Why are you so angry Don?

It's troubling.

I can tell you're furious that I have a problem with the McClurkin fiasco.

But you refuse to articulate why I'm wrong to feel this way.

All you do is resort to boring sarcasm. It's not even clever.

This is discussion board, so you'd think you'd be interested in, um, discussing this.

But you go ahead and defend Obama. It's a free country.

[donheld]

52. .

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[cboy4]

53. Classic.

:thumbsdown:

[rodeodance]

29. thanks for the post

[hfojvt]

30. Isn't there anything for Hillary to apologize for?

It seems like an over-hyped issue to me. For whatever reason, you want to hype this issue, to press Obama on it, but I am not sure you are applying the same standard to everybody.

[cboy4]

35. I'm not pleased that hillary doesn't want to completely

repeal the Defense of Marriage Act.

But she could theoretically still change her mind.

Obama has already acted.

And now it's getting to the point that it's troubling he won't apologize.

Why can't he say, "you know what, I made a mistake. It's over, I'm sorry, and I'm not going to let something like this happen again."?

Do you know how far that would go to start mending fences?

But he's not interested in taking that route for some reason.

Instead he wants to talk about reaching out to all point of view, when we know damn well he and his supporters would be going ape shit if Hillary Clinton had David Duke speak at one of her campaign events.

[hfojvt]

44. I was thinking more on these lines

http://citizenchris.typepad.com/citizenchris/2007/11/hillarys-donnie.html

"One week after the gay blogosphere went ballistic over Barack Obama's ties to an "ex-gay" gospel minister, the Washington Blade has an interesting story about two prominent anti-gay black ministers who Hillary Clinton has embraced as supporters."

Sort of a double standard in that Hillary is not even asked the same questions.

"There is an even more important distinction. Obama issued a forceful statement and gave a half-dozen interviews drawing sharp disagreements with McClurkin on gay issues. Clinton, on the other hand, has made absolutely no effort to distance herself or "speak our truth" to these anti-gay leaders.

A Clinton spokesperson told the Blade the candidate “has been very clear” she supports gay rights, which is entirely different than making clear the views of Long and Mayberry on gay issues are not the same as her own."

Apparently because Hillary got endorsed by the HRC, she can do no wrong in their eyes

"What crap. Can anyone imagine either Clinton or John Edwards having those kinds of discussions among campaign supporters? Meanwhile the only candidate who has, Obama, got its hand slapped by HRC, which as usual is doing the bidding of its pre-selected candidate."

The analogy to David Duke does not work. There is no XGay Klux Klan that McClurkin is the head of, and Duke does not make or sell CD's praising Jesus.

[Capn Sunshine]

37. Whipping the dusty skeleton of a dead horse

Geese, let it go already.

If he hasn't made subsequent statements to explain it well enough to you, maybe you aren't paying attention

[cboy4]

40. He's hasn't apologized. Of course I'm paying attention.

And this is not beating a dead horse.

We're talking about an interview he did that was published on Friday.

[Bluebear]

65. I can only imagine who "ignored" is this time.

[DarienComp]

38. you know, the human rights campaign endorsed Joe Lieberman.

That is all I have to say.

[cboy4]

39. I didn't think you'd have anything to say about Obama

refusing to apologize.

He's pinned supporters like you in a corner with this DarienComp.

You're unable to defend him, so you change subjects.

[DarienComp]

43. Cboy4, I won't defend Obama for McClurkin, and I've said as much in previous posts.

I won't beat a dead horse either, though.

Look, you certainly have a right to continue to render your garments over it, conveniently overlooking that the only policies having to do with gay rights that the Clinton administration managed to pass are DOMA and DADT. Other than that, the two Democratic candidates are pretty much even in terms of gay rights. Hillary's just better at pandering to us.

And the Human Rights Campaign still endorsed Joe Lieberman. Which is why I'm no longer a member.

[cboy4]

45. Hillary wasn't in charge when DOMA and DADT were

implemented.

And you really need to read up on why that all came to be.

At the time, we were looking at a flat out ban on gays in the military.

The Human Rights Campaign?

Yea, **some** terrible policies no doubt, but we don't have many other choices.

HRC sponored the candidate Q&A, and they do some good work despite Lieberman, et al.

I think it's good you let them know you were unhappy.

I've done the same.

And yea, both candidates are pretty much even in terms of gay issues, which is why I didn't vote for either in the California Primary.

I just happen to think what Obama did is worse than anything Hillary has done.

And I don't know why you don't desire an apology.

If it's related to civil liberties, there's nothing wrong with beating a dead horse -- if that's what you call this.

Martin Luther King, and other great civil rights leaders, got a lot accomplished by beating the proverbial dead horse.

[ruggerson]

51. cboy, frankly most of them don't give a shit

there are a few who get it, but most of them don't.

[cboy4]

55. No they don't....in fact, one of them thinks the whole thing

is a fuckin joke -- seven rofl smilies, in fact.

I asked this poster to articulate a reason for why he approves Obama's handling of McClurkin, and I get emoticons.

Yup, doesn't give a shit.

[donheld]

61. I didn't say it's a fucking joke, I said you're

a fucking joke.

[JoFerret]

70. Your little animation

says it all.

[JoFerret]

69. That casual "accepted" homophobia

is outrageous.
Those seven "smilers" need to wake up to their prejudice and discrimination.

[avrdream]

54. I gave up waiting for Barry's apology to us months ago.

Same time he lost my vote.

[cboy4]

56. You're much more intelligent than myself, because I actually

felt he just might apologize in the Advocate article.

So I' an idiot for holding out hope.

I can't think of how saying he's sorry could hurt him.

But apparently he feels he doesn't need any more votes.

He's in for a rude awakening.

[avrdream]

57. I think he thinks he still needs to throw us under the bus to impress the AA's.

Perhaps in North Carolina this time?

[cboy4]

60. There's no telling. The irresponsible lack of an apology

could signal more trouble ahead.

[JoFerret]

62. Why doesn't he just do it.

If he wants to be a divisive figure just keep on keeping on.
More "uniting" like this and the whole jigsaw will bust open.

[Skittles]

66. pandering to homophobes

election strategy that leaves a bad, bad aftertaste

[SoonerPride]

67. DOMA and DADT matter more, and they are stains on Clinton

McClurkin is bad, DADT and DOMA are worse.