Will Senator Clinton say and do anything to get elected?

[NJmaverick]

There is one thing that has always bothered me about Hillary Clinton, from the time she ran for NY Senator. It always seemed like she would say or do anything, to get what she wanted. Her behavior (false accusations, her elitist comments, use of repuke talking points, sniper and hospital gate, sucking up to right wing media, etc) during the campaign, has only reinforced my belief. What do the rest of you think?

[journalist3072]

1. I call bullshit on you. After all, you are supporting a guy who admitted that in 2004,

he tailored his remarks on Iraq so as not to hurt John Kerry and John Edwards (both who voted for the war) in the general election.

In 2004, Obama said he didn't know how he would have voted on the war, and that there was no difference in his position and Bush's on Iraq.

Asked during this campaign season by Tim Russert to explain those remarks, he said that he had not wanted to hurt John Kerry and John Edwards then.

So, he did the very same thing he accuses Sen. Clinton of: going whichever way the political winds blow; making political decisions instead of principled ones.

Seems to me as though HE's the one willing to say and do anything in the name of politics and getting elected.

[NJmaverick]

2. As of this post 92% of the people don't agree with you

[MonkeyFunk]

3. You think polls on DU are reliable?

How's our candidate, Kucinich, doing?

[GarbagemanLB]

4. Apparently Hillary supporters think AOL polls are reliable. What's the difference?

[NJmaverick]

7. DUers are better informed than the general public

So it seems to me they would also be in a better position to judge Hillary's ethical restriants. While our tastes in candidates may not match the general public's our judgement and morals are as good or better (my personal opinion is better) than the general public's. So I think this poll is very valid.

[MonkeyFunk]

27. LOL

Again, how's Kucinich's campaign coming along?

[NJmaverick]

34. What's your point? I already explained the difference between

your example of a preference for a candidate, and a moral and ethical judgement.

[journalist3072]

6. How pathetic of a response from you....I see you conveniently failed to address Obama's admission

that he tailored his remarks on Iraq in 2004 for purely political, calculated reasons, instead of standing on principle and saying how he really felt about the war.

Or perhaps, his remarks in 2004 ARE how he really felt, and he's B.S.'ing his way now as the so-called anti-war candidate.

[NJmaverick]

10. I example that requires some serious spin to put it in a gray ethical area

hardly compares to the impressive body of unethical works of Hillary Clinton. I pointed out the percentages of the poll, to show your accusations of "bullshit" were ludicrous.

[ShortnFiery]

8. Obama consciously modified his comments to "I don't know how I would have voted" to support THE TEAM

You know, "The Team" which is the larger *Democratic Party* and their specific nominee, John Kerry, who DID vote for authorization to invade Iraq.

His logic is spot on so as to permit himself to campaign for Kerry to win The Presidency.

It's called being a TEAM PLAYER and NOT making everything about YOU or YOUR FAMILY.

Does that remind you of anyone? With The Clintons, it's all about THEM. :thumbsdown:

[EFerrari]

9. Grain of truth: We shouldn't accuse Clinton of havng consideration

for other Democrats especially since she has a history of trashing them when it's expedient.

[MH1]

15. "Tailoring" and LYING are quite different.

[baldguy]

28. OMG! You're saying Obama, as a loyal Dem, supported the Dem candidate in 2004!

Damning evidence, surely.

[journalist3072]

31. So you think it's OK that he didn't stand on principle and say how he really felt about Iraq? His

comments in 2004 that there was no difference between him and Bush on the war, was for pure political expediency. He's admitted that.

And it's the same thing he accuses Sen. Clinton of.

Get your head out of your...well, you know.

[Catherina]

37. I feel for you... cuz I love you "Chaka Khan, Sh

"89% - Yes- She has no ethical limitations" to 1% "No- She is a very ethical and principled person"

Ouch that hurts.



With your kind permission, may I peel you a grape to make you feel better?

[Eric Condon]

39. You miss the point - he did that to HELP Kerry.

Unlike Clinton, who was out that whole summer on his book tour shilling for Bu$h's illegal bloodbath when he COULD'VE been helping Kerry. But then again, why would he do that - his wife wants to run in 4 years, so it'd be beneficial to them for Bu$h to win another term. And as an added benefit, they'd get four more years of his tax cuts that go so well with the $109 million they earned being so "in touch" with working class voters.

[ericgtr]

5. "No- She is a very ethical and principled person" LMAO

Nice one to throw in there, made my morning. :rofl:

[NJmaverick]

12. 1 vote- It's telling that even her supporters can't vote for that one

[tinrobot]

11. There's a few things she wouldn't say... like the truth.

n/t

[Frank Booth]

13. Here are her latest comments:

"Senator Obama's remarks were elitist and out of touch," she said, campaigning about an hour away in Indianapolis. "They are not reflective of the values and beliefs of Americans."

I guess Wellesley/YaleLaw/RoseLawFirm/WalMartBoard/FirstLady/$$$$$$$$$$$$ Hillary now knows what real Americans are like.

[NJmaverick]

16. There is a certain intellectual dishonesty when you become

the self appointed spokes person for "American values and beliefs". In fact to suggest that there is one single set of "values and beliefs" betrays an elitist attitude.

[Hepburn]

46. It was that sniper fire in Bosnia....

...that brought her down to earth to be with us Little People.

:hi:

[Debi]

48. You forgot the summer cottage in Scranton

:cry: of course, it didn't have any heat (in the summer????)

Check in here if your family has a 'summer cottage'

[Frank Booth]

50. Don't forget the mosquitoes!

They can get very vicious by the lake.

Indeed, Hillary's skills in dodging sniper fire were forged in the heated mosquito battles of 1963.

[Catherina]

51. Hillary's so out of touch it's frightening n/t

[ruggerson]

14. Your candidate seems to think so - he's said it quite often

a line he picked up from the REpublicans, which you're now spreading.

And I didn't vote in your poll.

[NJmaverick]

17. Why didn't you vote?

[ruggerson]

21. because these polls are meaningless

and masturbatory.

We all know that 80% of DU hates Sen. Clinton. Ergo, every single poll will turn out the same way.

I imagine most Hillary supporters don't participate in these polls.

[NJmaverick]

26. The problem with this one is it exceeds the 80% bias

Beyond that, you also have the faulty assumption that 100% of Obama's supporters do not like and would never support Hillary. That assumption is wrong. So there really is no sound basis for the claim that this poll is meaningless. In fact I have found that DUers are well above average in their knowledge of current affairs and politics. They are also a pretty moral and ethical bunch. So their opinion on any political figure's ethics is quite meaningful and telling.

[ruggerson]

30. As I said, most Hillary supporters don't participate

but knock yourself out polling Obama supporters.

[NJmaverick]

32. What an odd way to show support for your candidate

No wonder why she is losing

[susankh4]

18. Come November I sure hope we have a nominee

that will say what needs to be said, and do what needs to be done... to win!

[NJmaverick]

19. So a candidate shouldn't have ethical constraints

when seeking office? When do they kick in? How do you know the candidate will peform their duties ethically? After all with george bush he said and did anything to sieze the White House and he behaved the same way as president. At some point a person needs to show they are an ethical and moral person, or they don't belong in the White House.

[susankh4]

22. If our candidate doesn't win....

who cares?

My concern is:

1) Can they win.

2) Can they do the job.

[NJmaverick]

24. If our candidate lacks ethics, it will be a hollow victory

[susankh4]

25. Allright.

McCain it is!

You called it.

[NJmaverick]

29. That is only true if you believe only an unethical candidate

can win the election. I do not believe that to be true.

[susankh4]

33. None of our candidates are "unethical"

that is all your wording.

All I said is I want someone who will do what it takes to win. And will do a good job once elected.

[NJmaverick]

36. "do what it takes" implies a lack of ethical constraint

For example if I wanted a new Ferrari, I would have to steal one. Since I have ethical constraints, I have to settle for a lesser car. In the case of an election, I want a candidate that will do everything possible, within an ethical framework, to win.

[susankh4]

38. In your mind it does?

Not in mine.

If I had a brain tumor, for instance, I would hire the physician who would "do what it takes" to heal me.

[NJmaverick]

41. Then why would you make that statement in a thread about ethics

Unless you are implying that you feel that ethics will result in losing the election, it doesn't make sense.

[susankh4]

43. The title of the thread had nothing to do with ethics.

[NJmaverick]

53. The Poll certainly clarified that this thread is all about ethics

and Hillary's clear lack of them.

[susankh4]

55. There is a category "other"

And that is where I fall.

What don't you understand?

If you don't want "other" in your thread.... don't invite us.

[BklnDem75]

35. Wow...

so you honestly don't care what your candidate stands for?

[cali]

20. we will- Senator Obama is the odds on favorite

to be the dem nominee. and considering the lousy campaign hillary has run, I'm relieved. At this point, I have no faith in her ability to run a winning campaign.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

23. absolutely. Kicked and recommended so we can get more voting

see what others think.

[TexasObserver]

40. who ruined it by voting that she's ethical?!!

spoil sport!!

[nebula]

42. 96 to 1?

That's a pretty stunning result even for DU.

I bet most of the Hillary supporters picked the 1st or 2nd
choice because even they know a rat when they see one.

[Bensthename]

44. you are spot on.

[jillan]

45. You forgot to add -

Does Obama say anything to win?

[Debi]

47. OMG so far only one vote for Clinton being ethical

:rofl:

Her supporters must be busy passing around the 'I'm not bitter' grass-roots (provided by the campaign) stickers right now.

[CADEMOCRAT7]

49. Disappointing

I have always liked Hillary. I took up for her when other's around me would say "she is an opportunist that will do whatever she can to get ahead, she is out for herself".
I disagreed.
The longer the primaries go, the character of both candidates is coming out.
I am extremely disappointed with Hillary.
I can not fathom why she would attack another democrat using the exact same language the republican candidate is using.
It seems "as if" Hillary and McBush are working together against Obama. I have lost a tremendous amount of respect for her.
CNN is covering her speech right now, and it was reported that she called Obama "elitist and out of touch..." What are you doing Hillary ? Does Hillary really want Obama, as opposed to McBush, to be the one in the White House if she does not win. Her actions are showing something else.
And, Hillary and Obama are going to be doing a compassion forum together this Sunday.
That will be interesting.

[NJmaverick]

52. 128 to 2 those are shocking results

not what I expected

[Perry Logan]

54. Besides being bullshit, this is a barefaced insult to millions of Democrats.