There is a deep and disturbing message in the "bitter" flap.

[Raven]

Now, I know I'm going to get fried for this but I am going to say it anyway. I hope people here will at least think about it before they flame me and maybe tell me where I am wrong...in a rational, respectful way. Here goes:

The first thing that hit me as I was following the Obama/Clinton "bitter" exchange was that there is a subtle message here "how dare an uppity black man tell us that we are not happy with our state in life?" As a country, we've been ok with a black man (MLK) telling us to let his people have the same rights as we do but can we stand having a black man tell us we're not doing too well? My sense is that Senator Clinton has picked up on this...thus her Pollyanna response. Anyone running for President who sugar coats what is happening to folks in this country today ought to be ashamed.

The other thing that struck me is that Obama tapped into this country's state of denial about how bad things really are and what people are doing to compensate for it (religion, guns, plaming immigrants). Most of us still are tempted to feel like economic failure is our fault. We could have done something, we could have been better. We tend to look inward first, before we look out and when we look out, we want to find something else to blame before we realize that our government is killing us. Human nature.

Obama poked the snake.

[MonkeyFunk]

1. so you find racism

in criticism of his comments? how odd.

[Occam Bandage]

39. Given the number of times I've seen you complaining of sexism, I'd say you hardly

have a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining of "cards" of any sort. Racism and sexism--they're virtually everywhere if you want to see them; they aren't if you don't.

[MonkeyFunk]

85. When have you seen me complain of sexism

when it didn't involve something obviously sexist? Like calling her a whore, a bitch or a cunt? Or depicting her as a witch?

[Yael]

60. And you miss the underlying tone of what is being discussed?

You don't do nuance very well, do you.

[Bonobo]

109. I do as well. It is subtle and would be difficult to get across to people with blindfolds on, but...

Clearly given the income disparity between Obama and Clinton, particularly in light of recent income tax returns, it is IMPOSSIBLE to see how the "elitist" label would fit. After all, generally speaking, it is not an easy thing to pin an "elitist" label on a racial minority with a name like "Obama".

So... how does it make sense that this has legs? One way only. One word best describes it. It is "uppity".

You are smart, MF, I am sure you can connect those dots.

[EFerrari]

2. There is that response, for sure. I heard a few callers on Washington

Journal say that this was coded language and that Obama was a racist -- which is clearly a projection.

[Swamp Rat]

3. "Obama poked the snake."

Yes he did, and by doing so he set the course of the debate for the coming week.

He's a master baiter. :D

[stop the bleeding]

19. Love your posts

:toast:

[ClayZ]

21. Master Baiter .....YOU nailed it again!

Lol! That is some kind of fishin' he does. I have ended up in the net several times and I am always better for it!

[Warren DeMontague]

118. That's right. The flag pin/turban/phony outrage crowd will huff and puff for their allotted 5 min.

and then, everyone else will step back and go "you know, the dude has a point"

[Pathwalker]

4. I blame Bush. The destruction of the middle class was PLANNED.

As was the destruction of the economy.

[BumRushDaShow]

12. It goes back before Bush Jr.

It started in earnest with Reagan and Stockman's and Getrich's "trickle down" theory. They took an economic crises that was the result of a prolonged war and redefined the landscape of framing the issues.

[2rth2pwr]

46. Yeah, that way people would have less money to spend on corporate stuff.

and stuff.

[Auntie Bush]

102. I love that picture! Expresses my mental picture of Obama to a tee.

It could also appropriately be captioned with, "You're good enough Hillary."

[2rth2pwr]

104. I borrowed it from someone here who had it in a much larger size.

you can use it.

[Auntie Bush]

113. Thanks...I just might do that with that Hillary comment if I get brave

enough to figure out how to make those changes. I've probably forgotten.

[KAZ]

5. No flames from me. When I first heard McCain's " condescension" remark,

and Clinton's "looking down on voters" quip, "uppity.." immediately came to mind.

[EFerrari]

7. That word came up on WJ this morning several times. n/t

[KatieBloom]

6. No flames here either...

Thanks for the analysis. I agree with you.

[DaveJ]

8. I'm willing to talk about racial problems

I'm not sure why you think you'd get flamed. We all have different, tragic things happening to us. They follow along these variations:

1) A relative imprisoned unjustly for a misguided act that many would consider minor.
2) A Person who is having their home taken away, or will never have a home, despite working their asses off.
3) A person who can't get a medical procedure due to financial constraints.
4) A person who can't get a job in their field, despite eagerness to work.
5) People who live modest and hard working lives, have all their essential needs met, but cannot EVER have something special like a nice dinner or vacation.

So yeah, Americans have a lot to be bitter about. And some of the problems facing us are along racial divides. Some may seem more important to one race compared to another.

[Auntie Bush]

111. I'm white and I claim #5 as my own.

But I can't see any racial overturns in this discussion. It is quite aggravating to have everyone actively looking for something racist out of every remark. It's like looking for a gold nugget in a stream for a couple weeks and sure enough you find ONE. Ahhhh! Success! I knew I could do it! Look, I found gold! This is a treasure!

[Snarkoleptic]

9. I agree!

The more the establishment pushes back on Obama, the more my inner Scotsman wants him to be POTUS.
We can truly see fear in those who most closely depend on the status quo.
The 'bitter contoversy' is all about the squelching of hope as the system has been 'gamed' to favor the rich.
Obama represents hope and change. We need a breath of fresh air!

Hope is the best possession. None are completely wretched but those who are without hope, and few are reduced so low as that.
-William Hazlitt

[Window]

10. No flames here. You may be on to something here.

Peace:thumbsup:

[TexasObserver]

11. It wasn't his first comments, but the way he ended it.

I winced when I first read it, because it was too true, and therefore too offensive to the very voters he needs to reach. This is what happens when a guy is responding candidly in an urban, coastal state to supporters, and thinks he's off the record. He gets a little sloppy and says something he would never say when campaigning in small town America.

Skinner hit the nail on the head in his thread. It was Obama's conclusion about such folks clinging to God, Guns and Guts, to embracing jingoism and nationalism, when they are faced with a crumbling local economy. Obama was right, but politicians have to know when to make their comments more palatable to those who will hear them.

We all know the difference between speaking the truth and hitting someone between the eyes with their shortcomings.

Obama has to be more savvy about what he says. This was a gaffe, and it will hurt him with the very people he most needs to reach. He played into the hands of Hillary and McCain by coming off in a way that rural white people feel too often - that they're a bunch of hicks who don't get it.

Obama did speak the truth, but politicians can't speak like political commentators. They have to consider the negative impact of what they say. He has to learn not to do that. He could have said everything he needed to say, without "going there" about what it causes such folks to cling to.

[Raven]

14. I agree with your analysis...my question is whether if she had said

the same thing, would it have caused such a flap?

[TexasObserver]

34. No, she would just cackle it off and claim it was because of sexism.

[hisownpetard]

40. The worse her offense, the harder she laughs. Lately, she doesn't chuckle, she guffaws.

[tigervalentine]

69. Cackle it off.

You have just coined a phrase that so accurately describes what HRC does when she doesn't want to answer. It absolutely MUST become a part of our language. People who hear it will immediately know what is meant.

Brilliant, actually.

[TexasObserver]

103. She has a bizarre way of dealing with questions she doesn't want to answer

[truedelphi]

119. Also she often shakes her head, constantly nodding "no" to everything as she speaks.

Psychologists will tell you that people who do this (who don't have Parkinson's or some other nervous disorder) are uncomfortable with what they are saying, or out and out lying.

[ClassWarrior]

17. Wrong. He actually ended it by saying...

..."That's a natural response." So how is that "hitting someone between the eyes?" How is that not empathy?

What's more...

The losing strategy is to move to the right, to assume with Republicans that American values are mainly conservative and that the Democratic party has to move away from its base and adopt conservative values. When you do that, you help activate conservative values in people's brains (thus helping the other side), you offend your base (thus hurting yourself), and you give the impression that you are expressing no consistent set of values, which is true! Why should the American people trust somebody who does not have clear values, and who may be trying to deceive them about the values he and his party's base hold?

http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/research/lakoff/no-center-no-centrists/view?searchterm=no%20centrists

NGU.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClassWarrior]

62. Your only response is to attack me personally?

:rofl:

NGU.

[TexasObserver]

101. No, my response is

to put you ignore, where I won't have to see your comments further

good luck with that attitude

[BumRushDaShow]

24. Not a gaffe

He's not a lawyer for nothing.

The oft-used statement "If not now, when?" applies. SOMEHOW, some way, a shot across America's bow MUST occur in order to be the catalyst for change.

When the people of Boston had had enough with the King's taxes, they did a shot across the bow and dumped tea in the harbor. Ironically, they cloaked themselves as "Indians". But the "message" was heard and spawned a revolution.

Being revolutionary - and there should be some on this board who were or still are "revolutionaries" from the past, one must take risks. The risk might not bring an immediate payoff (and in the case of the Boston Tea Party, it took 3 years before the Colonists declared their independence), but change DID come.

[TexasObserver]

41. Yes, it was a gaffe. He admits it was a gaffe.

Stop denying the obvious. You're not helping Obama by denying it was a snafu.

[BumRushDaShow]

50. Why would some anonymous poster on an internet board

somehow be so influential that what they write here would "help" or "hurt" some candidate? That is incredibly silly. :rofl:

You are quite naive regarding what he has done - including his 2 responses to his statements. It is masterful.

You know why? It's being discussed in the news cycle and guess what? Eventually the truth WILL come out as the media pundits just can't leave a story like this alone. Watch as they actually go out and start asking around and doing analyses, etc. You will start seeing articles titled "Are Americans really bitter?"

See, the media has bought into the mindless drivel that passes for news and entertainment that keep the masses dumbed down. Mainly because they make money off of it. If they ignore this story, then Obama wins. If they actually cover this story, then they will be forced to actually ask people and will find what he said is true and Obama wins. ;)

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BumRushDaShow]

64. Ciao!

Join mine as well!

[MercutioATC]

55. Actually, he doesn't admit it was a "gaffe"....

He simply said that he could have stated it better.

Personally, I think the controversy is going to help him a lot. It's giving him control of the stage less than 2 weeks before the PA primary.

[BumRushDaShow]

66. Exactly.

The whole issue goes back to the economy, which he correctly suggested has been ignored by BOTH parties - and this includes the earlier Clinton administration, with NAFTA and the so-called Welfare Reform that destroyed AFDC.

I hope that Congress listens too - but then so many there are just as complicit.

[Texas Hill Country]

36. this is the same reason therapists cant just tell people what is wrong with them and move on... if

you do that, the people just go into denial, get angry, reject you and you get nowhere.


If you are gonna get someone to reach these conclusions, you have to let them come to them on their own.


It's exactly why every serious psychologist thinks that Dr. Phil is full of shit.


This WILL backfire. If not now, it will in the GE.

[BumRushDaShow]

47. As long as the RW own the media the "people" will NEVER come out of their denial.

They are soothed with brain dead reality shows - essentially bread and circuses.

There are many psychological and psychiatric methods and what you profess is not necessarily correct either. And using nonsense like "Dr. Phil", an entertainer, to bolster an argument is ludicrous.

The key is to tap into and channel anger and bitterness towards some positive goal. Not focusing so much on the individual ("psychology") but the group ("sociology") is the key. Reagan's spinmeister's were able to tap into the group ("mob") mentality and the Democratic Party is slowly making inroads into learning those techniques.

[Texas Hill Country]

87. walking up to a small town god loving gun toting xenophobic midwesterner

and saying that you are that way b/c you lost your job and the economy sucks and you just wanna blame anyone or anything for it is not flattering, productive and not the way to get them to vote for you.

AND generalizing that midwesterners are bible beating, xenophobic, gun toting freaks is not a good move either.


Dr. Phil was an analogy. sorry you didnt like it.


And believe me, I am well versed on both individual psychology and group dynamics, and while you are right about Reagan, you are incorrect in thinking that Obama did the same thing.

[CTyankee]

108. I would never EXPECT to walk up to a "god lovin'...etc" to say that

and neither would Obama. It is just a straw man argument. And you misconstrued his remarks as well. He certainly was not blaming them.

The description you used fits a person who will NEVER, under any circumstances, vote for a Democrat. He or she is the solid, if small, base of American voters who will always vote their RW bias. We will have the votes to beat them.

So let's get real here. Obama was talking to everyone else, people who are desperate or close to desperate and want to hear something different than "more of the same for the next 4 years."

We are going to win this election for the White HOuse and both houses of Congress. I will bet on it. The fundies and unregenerate gunners are unfortunately stuck in second gear but perhaps their progeny, if not themselves, will evolve out of it.

In the meantime, please get a wider frame for your political lens. It will help you in your political perspective for the upcoming campaign.

[Bolo Boffin]

13. Tom Robinson lives again. n/t

[Mz Pip]

15. Sadly

I think you may be on to something. I was thinking the same thing this morning after hearing and reading some of the responses to Obama's remarks. Snob, elitist, arrogant seem to be code words for "uppity".

The only response that Hillary could have made that would have been more disingenuous would have been if she broke out in a chorus of "Tomorrow" from "Annie."

Besides, perceptions are funny things. Bush appeared to connect with the common man. Gore was stiff and unlikeable. People thought they would like to have a beer with Bush. But in reality he was an elitist snob, totally clueless about the needs of the middle and lower class population. Obama may appear to be elitist to some but I think he is much more grounded in what is real to the majority of Americans.

I'd much rather have a 'snob' in the White House who knew what was going on than a clueless good old boy who played at being connected.

[jgraz]

16. There has never been an Obama outrage from the Klintons that didn't have a racial undertone.

Edited cuz I realized I'd just given the Hillbots another nickname for Obama. :blush:

[EFerrari]

25. Bill Clinton in particular can't seem to open his mouth without

lapsing into code. It's really upsetting.

[butterfly77]

18. Exactly, what I was thinking when I heard it...

and as I watched Hillary she was saying the same as the republicons acting as though this is some type of surprise that they don't know about. So are Hillary and the republiCONS telling the american people that they and Obama are lying? Evidently,these two republicons Hillary and mccain are the elitist who don't really know who the american people really are..

Are they telling us we don't know what we are talking about, we live with these situations everyday.To use Obama's line: "We can't wait"...

[stellanoir]

20. It boggles my mind how people can't wrap their heads around how one can

be both embittered over what has transpired in recent years and hopeful for better governance in the future.

He was elucidating the classically divisive wedge issues that prevent people from recognition of the fact that we're all in this together.

How this can be construed as "elitist" also escapes me. It's simply where all too many get stuck.

This is hardly comparable to embellishments or fabrications or continual war mongering.

Sheesh.

No flames from here.

K & R

[BumRushDaShow]

72. Exactly.

Remember about all those "cynics".

Obama has taken the message that Clinton and McLame were supposed to articulate (and especially McLame who had been trying to distance himself from Bush), and he sprinted off with it. Now they are mad.

[2rth2pwr]

22. "how dare an uppity black man tell us that we are not happy with our state in life?"

That is projection, pure and simple.

Just because someone disagrees with Obama, and Obama himself implied his words were sloppy, doesn't make them

a redneck bigot.

[Raven]

26. Projection or discernment, I don't know. I guess that makes me either

a racist or a thoughtful observer.

[2rth2pwr]

31. Or a thoughtful racist who likes to observe.

[Raven]

45. My goodness! I've never been called a racist on DU before. Do

you know me? Do you know anything about me? Do you frequently throw those kinds of accusations around?

[2rth2pwr]

67. How does it feel to be on the receiving end? Your OP calls a lot of

people who are bothered by Obama's statement as racists.




My Goodness!

[Raven]

74. Yours is a classic ad hominem attack. Works well when you want

to avoid a discussion on the issues.

[2rth2pwr]

77. ad hominem? These are your words- there is a subtle message here "how dare an uppity black man tell

there is a subtle message here "how dare an uppity black man tell us that we are not happy with our state in life?"

This was your way of describing people who disagree with what Obama said.

This was the issue you brought up.

[Raven]

96. Educate yourself. n/t

[TML]

29. But writing anti-immigration in Hazelton, PA does

[DemGa]

23. "Uppity black man"? Where do you get this?

There is NOTHING in the exchange to indicate this, which makes the charge very sad indeed. It is just amazing to make this leap, and interject race into the equation where nothing of the sort has occurred -- Reality is the best argument against your premise.

[BumRushDaShow]

38. Racism, veiled or overt, has NEVER been a student of "reality".

It has been part and parcel of this entire contest since Iowa and there is no reason to believe that it will suddenly cease to exist. This man has upset many many apple carts and the flailing around that is going on in response is humorous to watch.

[DemGa]

51. "upset many many apple carts"

I had to laugh at that one. What Obama has done is INSULT the people of PA with his psycho-drivel.

[BumRushDaShow]

71. Was your laugh a cackle or?

;)

I am a multi-generational Pennsylvanian and was not insulted but heartened because he told it like it is. People need to wake the f*ck up and get their heads out of the sand. Judging by your forum name, I expect you are NOT from PA so why do you care? :rofl:

The handwriting is on the wall... when the media reported about the hallowed Arlen Specter like this:

Republican Senator Arlen Specter said yesterday that he is glad he's not up for reelection this fall.I think it's very tough," he said on CNN. "They have turned many Republicans who were my voters. We're going to be working very hard to try to turn them back."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/04/12/new_voters_flood_upcoming_primaries/)

this indicates that the molten lava of the people seething underground is at the boiling point and the volcano dome of Corporatist control is about to burst. For the first time in memory, the state of PA has more registered Democratic voters than Republican. Snapping them out of their lethargy and denial must occur in order to break the status quo of the Bush/Clinton regimes.

[kwenu]

27. Maybe. At best, I think the "uppity" is debateable. What isn't debateable is that Obama told the

truth and the other politicians want to play the charlatan game as usual.

[Willo]

28. You are exactly right

and not just find something else to blame.

Its easier to blame the closest thing we can see and touch. The "government" is not tenable.

[jmondine]

30. "Plaming Immigrants?"

While this was probably a typo, it still seems rather appropriate.

[bigtree]

32. every criticism is about race for many of his supporters. Hysterical

. . . I think.

[EFerrari]

35. You obviously didn't catch Washington Journal this morning.

Those weren't Obama supporters calling in and calling him "uppity". But, nice try.

[bigtree]

73. so you take what some unidentified yahoo says on cspan and apply that to Hillary supporters

and you folks call her dishonest?

[EFerrari]

75. Please don't make yourself into a pretzel on my account. n/t

[bigtree]

78. You're apt to apply that ridicule to anything outside of your own opportunistic bias in this race.

It's transparent, so don't presume to lecture me with your cheap political rhetoric.

[EFerrari]

83. I'm going to need shades to deal with your projections.

What do you make of the fact that spitting and shouting Obama antagonists called in this morning to call him uppity?

Surely, you're not accusing HIM of planting them, are you?

And as far as my own "opportunistic bias", you have a mote and beam problem. Search my posts and compare them to yours. Search my own commitment and compare them to your much longer one.

'Way to drag this into the gutter. I'll leave you there to enjoy on your own.

[Raven]

37. Not from me. This is the second time that the thought has occurred

to me. The first was Bill's comments about Jessie Jackson. Although I must admit that Senator Clinton's (and her staff's) whispering campaign about how Obama can't win the GE gives me pause too.

[EFerrari]

43. Plenty of instances. He was a drug dealer, he mugged Bill Clinton,

he can't win the GE, the Jackson comparison, pushing the condescension angle, the car stealing ref.

We don't need to insert race. The Clinton campaign does a fine job on their own.

[bigtree]

76. saying he can't win the GE is standard politics. Calling it racism is phoney.

The Jackson comparison has been duplicated by several Obama supporters who've compared him to other black men and other black candidates, so I don't think you can use that any more. Nothing was more offensive than the push to cow blacks into supporting Obama as some sort of black loyalty exercise. And the rest you've listed is from some yahoo who isn't anywhere near to representing Hillary Clinton in any official way.

All of the focus on these is a despicable attempt to paint the Clintons as racist, which they aren't. The entire argument that they've run a racist campaign is a disgusting exploitation of a serious issue (racism) for Obama's political gain. It's laughable that Obama supporters believe they can credibly throw around charges of racism as a defense for every other criticism of him. The ones you've listed are a joke.

[EFerrari]

81. I'm sorry, bigtree. I am completely at peace with this.

The Clinton campaign disgusted me long, long before I decided I could support Obama.

Maybe you need some sensitivity training to deal with your own denial.

[bigtree]

86. I apologize for my 'projecting'

and, of course I need therapy. It's completely obvious. But, denial isn't one of my aliments. If it was, I'd be much more serene and accepting of supporters of a candidate who hasn't yet achieved the necessary amount of votes to nominate, can't achieve that number by votes cast alone, but wants his rival to concede anyway.

[EFerrari]

88. And that response skitters away from the issue.

Whatever. Have a good adventure.

Clinton is harming us now. That's pretty much universally acknowledged. Obama hasn't called for her to withdraw. I won't comment on that assertion.

I myself am very disappointed in the Clinton campaign and I can't wait until they fold up the tent. Because it has been destructive in the extreme.

[bigtree]

89. The issue?

The contrived race issue? The one which the Obama camp thought they could feign outrage over to generate sympathy votes for their candidate? I covered that as much as I'm willing in my first response to this thread's attempt (and your own) to divert from the 'issue' (Obama's offensive comments) at hand.

[EFerrari]

91. bigtree: here is a reality check.

Obama was empathizing with dislocated workers. Your campaign tried to make hay of that. Cool.

Thing number two: Hillary's comments which closely mirrored McCain's comments spurred people to express racial hatred for Obama.

Cool. That may be her only hope -- to incite racial division in PA.

That you can possibly say that the Clinton campaign hasn't pushed racial division is just gross because it flies in the face of what so many of us have watched before committing to any candidate.

Contrived, my ass.

YOU may feel good about pushing a campaign that can behave in that manner. I certainly never, ever could.

Good luck with that.

[bigtree]

93. I haven't seen the racial thing (on bitterness) until it was brought up in this thread

I think it's efforts like this which are trying to 'incite racial division' if there's any effort in that at all. Hell, you can associate anything you want with racism, under your standard. Who was practicing racism when they said Kerry couldn't win the GE? Same with Bill Clinton's campaign? It's crass exploitation of the issue of racism to attach it to every criticism of the motives against your candidate. The charges in the OP are invented out of the poster's own biased mind. And projecting the actions or statements of others onto Hillary Clinton's intent or belief is transparently dishonest. The false conflations are completely unnecessary, as they are totally self-serving to the cheap political ambitions to advance this one man.

Just keep fanning those imaginary flames. They just might catch . . .

[EFerrari]

94. That you haven't seen it speaks more to your perception than

to anything else.

If you need Hillary Clinton to win more than you care about social justice, well, it is what it is.

Just keep ignoring the injustice. Maybe it will go away.

[bigtree]

95. what the hell do you know about what I care about?

I just don't buy your political attacks on Clinton over this. Suggesting that her comments had something to do with racism is an amazing disrespect for the issue of 'social justice' you claim to defend with your insult of my personal character and belief. I don't know how you can feel secure in suggesting that someone you know absolutely nothing about is somehow insensitive to the issue of race because they don't bend to your opportunistic lecturing on behalf of your candidate, but your ridicule is really the only race-baiting in sight (beside the OP's)

[EFerrari]

99. That's just sad.

[bigtree]

100. I got your sad.

what arrogance.

[TML]

33. Yes he did

And I applaud him for it. I live in one of three small towns that border each other, and in each of them there are a lot of white people who will never vote for a black man. In fact, we're known for having a Klan presence. I don't go to bars in my 'hood because there's a certain segment of the white population that will target me for the color of my skin. That is an undeniable fact.

[OzarkDem]

42. Obama is the snake

And his bigoted characterization of all small town voters as a bunch of gun toting, religious extremist KKK members is an insult to the Democratic Party and everything it stands for.

He's gone from race baiting to making blanket attacks on others who choose not to vote for him.

Obama is an embarrassment to all Democrats. Perhaps he and Rev. Wright can create their own political party.

[Liberal Veteran]

44. Of course. The multimillionaire Washington beltway insiders are the champions of the people!

Right.

[EFerrari]

53. As we've seen with Bil Clinton's recent championing of

those murdered organizers in Colombia!

[Capn Sunshine]

79. You've FINALLY gotten the HRC campaign theme!

WOOT!

[cornermouse]

48. News flash. Black people live in small towns too.

It's not about racism. It's about calling people names that will make them angry and disinclined to vote for him when the time comes.

[liberaldem4ever]

49. K & R

[Why Syzygy]

52. Exactly. Uppity. That's the message ON THE HEAD!

It is surreal to hear Rove and HilLiary calling Obama, "arrogant". I mean. ROVE?

And of course by this point, you cannot tell HilLIARy's voice from Rove's/McCain's.

I hate her so.

[joanski0]

56. On Washington Journal this morning, I heard

two callers call Obama "uppity". I agree with you, Raven.

[EFerrari]

58. Thank you! We have another witness! n/t

[windbreeze]

57. Yes, and he spoke the truth...we can't be doing that now, can we???

I wonder if those 230,000 people who lost their jobs over the last 3 months are bitter....I wonder if the 7,700 people who lost their homes in Denver last year are bitter???...I wonder if the parents who lost sons/daughters in Iraq/Afghanistan are bitter, or the vets who came home with PTSD, and have been given discharges that keep them from receiving benefits, are bitter...I wonder if the loved ones who lost relatives on 9/11 are bitter, or any of the emergency personnel who are now dying because they attempted to help others are bitter....I wonder if anyone who suffered from Katrina along the Gulf Coast is bitter, I wonder if anyone who has a sick relative with NO medical insurance is bitter...I wonder if any of us who watched the SCOTUS put * in office, in spite of how we voted, is bitter....I wonder if anyone who suspects the electronic voting machines put him in the second time, are bitter ....I wonder if any of us who have paid attention to the illegal, and shameful shenanigans this current gov't of ours, has pulled over the last 8 years are bitter????....Sure seems to me, we ALL have a right to be, if nothing else, at least a little bit bitter...Maybe he just should have said...WE'RE PISSED OFF and WE AIN'T GONNA TAKE IT NO MORE...

You bet your ass we're bitter...I keep saying I don't have a horse in this race, but if Obama keeps talking, and making sense I damned sure will have...because every time he speaks truth, and Clinton and McCain don't want us to hear it....it tells me exactly WHO it IS...that cares about this country and it's people...and THAT'S exactly what I've been waiting to find out...KEEP TALKING OBAMA...KEEP TALKING....(but make sure you are also prepared to walk the walk)...wb

[newmajority]

59. The reason Hillary gave her Pollyanna sugar coated response

Is that she knows goddamned well that the DLC, Bill and herself included, are as much to blame for the sorry state of this country as the Repukes are. The destruction of this country didn't begin on 9-11-01, or even 12-12-2000. It began when Reagan and Poppy swindled their way into office, using human beings held hostage in Iran as pawns, and it did NOT stop during the 1990's, regardless of the myth some of you have allowed yourselves to believe (and admittedly, used to believe myself.)

BushClinton has been one continuous 28 year nightmare, and thank God it's just about over.

[BeatleBoot]

61. I think she gave that response because

it's what Pensylvanians are thinking.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

Mr. Obama suffers from foot-in-mouth disease. And she siezed on it.

[EFerrari]

63. Obama is one of the most adept politicians we've seen in

the last forty years. If HE has foot in mouth disease, she's digested herself and several top staffers AND her husband multiple times in her unfortunate campaign.

What she did was take the bait. Watch. :)

[BeatleBoot]

65. It's all politics and it will sort itself out.

Nice to hear from you!

I hope all is well!

:hi:

[EFerrari]

68. I can't wait till we're beyond this eating each other alive part.

lol

:hi:

[Capn Sunshine]

80. some campaigns always think foot in mouth, others see it as truth telling

let history be the judge

[BeatleBoot]

117. Let the Pennsylvanians be the judge.

All else will follow.

[windbreeze]

70. absolutely correct....

going to ask this again....IS this primary race more about DLC vs DNC than it is anything else??Could it destroy the Democratic party? Is that the explanation for some of the things that are happening?...wb

[bigbrother05]

82. ,,,

Religion, guns, immigrants. abortion, gay marriage, Human rights, these are all Republican talking points, that take over the conversation in a political race. These are non issues in the Republican eyes, just put it out there to take over the conversation, non of these issues are brought to the house, in a manner that is effective.
Now this is what Obama is talking about.
and I can't believe that people on DU as to not understand what is going on.
Clinton and McCain are using the same attack, approach, is it affective, yes, only because it is being discussed.
If people on DU want to take the stand that the Media is doing, and most Clinton supporters are attacking the Media, the Pot and Pan bangers, but go right ahead, don't think for yourself and see what is really going on.

[Bensthename]

84. Obama is not a "black" candidate. He is a candidate that has talked

to thousands of people in and around PA and has heard what they have to say. He is not speaking for white people from a black point of view.

[H2O Man]

90. I agree. n/t

[mamalone]

92. I think you have a good point....

and it reminds me of that scene in "To Kill a Mockingbird"... you know where the black man who has been accused of rape is on the stand and is talking about the girl? He says he "felt sorry for her." And that was the kiss of death for him. The mere idea that he, a black man, would ever feel in a position to feel sympathy for a white woman was unforgivable.

It also reminds me of a post that was on this board a while back. An older woman was basically saying that all the black folk should be grateful to white liberals for "giving" them their rights.

Many people who feel they are enlightened actually still need to feel in control.. in power. As long as they can see themselves as a benevolent superior, they are fine. But have a black person actually have control over them, show superiority to them and they start backpeddling like crazy.

drives me crazy....

[Raven]

97. Hit.nail.on.head.

[2rth2pwr]

98. You hit your head on something, that's for sure.

[EFerrari]

106. Bingo. Who is this black man to empathize. n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

105. This is like deja vu

Didn't you claim this same thing a couple of months ago?

[EFerrari]

107. Did you hear those callers on WJ this morning?

They were awful. I know we don't agree, cat_girl, but Raven s right. This snake has been poked.

[Catherine Vincent]

110. No, I haven't been watching cspan lately.

It's usually for entertainment purposes only anyway.

[EFerrari]

112. I'm glad you didn't see that. I wish I hadn't. n/t

[Raven]

114. No, I don't think so but at my age, short memory loss is my friend! n/t

[Catherina]

115. No flames here Raven. I got the same message n/t

[barack the house]

116. Couldn't of said it better myself.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

120. I AGREE! If you are in any way a bigot, this is the message you will receive:

"Blacks are uppity"

I base this on an e-mail that has been haunting me for days. While my mother-in-law is a conservative who considers herself a devout "Christian", I never considered her racist. That is, until I received this in an e-mail:

http://thevoice.name/?p=7142

Here is an excerpt:

"But for minorities, and in particular blacks, this election represents a moment of long-awaited validation. There is no question that the election of an African-American president will empower the blacks of this country. Don't misunderstand me - this is not a racist statement, this is just a fact, and in many respects this could be a good thing. But there is no denying the sense of audacious rebellion that constantly simmers in much of the black community, particularly with the youth of the large metropolitan areas. I have some concern that the election of a black president will take us back to a consciousness that promotes the power of race over intelligence, reason, and the value of law, and that this may divide black and whites more than uniting them. I hope that I'm wrong."

I think your perspective, Raven, is a rather prevalent and significant one... especially with those who fail to see how THIS EMAIL is racist. I can guarantee you that my Mother-in-law considers the "bitter" comments made by Clinton/McCain as cause for alarm. She most assuredly not vote for Obama because of these hidden biases.