Shhhh! DON'T Say it Out Loud ...

[NanceGreggs]

How many times have we all said, especially over the last seven-plus years: “If you’re not pissed-off, you’re not paying attention.”

So one can only wonder at the Clinton camp’s response when Barack Obama spoke to the fact that those who have been paying attention are pissed-off – and rightfully so.

Senator Clinton’s immediate reaction was not only to feign outrage that Obama had actually acknowledged the presence of the elephant in the room, but to go the further step of pretending that the elephant doesn’t even exist.

“That hasn’t been my experience,” she said of her travels through Pennsylvania. Hillary only sees happy, optimistic people who are willing to roll-up-their-sleeves – as though they have been lazily lounging in front of the afternoon soaps while their jobs disappeared – the inference being that people whose lives have been decimated by outsourcing, unfair trade deals, and government policies that leave working-class citizens in the dust while catering to the already-wealthy and the bottom-lines of corporations are too stupid to do anything but smile mindlessly in the midst of their plight.

Unfortunately for Hillary (as though she actually needed any more misfortune in her losing bid for the nomination), the people of Pennsylvania – along with people of every county, every state, every city, every small town – have been staring that elephant in the face for years, and are tired of hearing that it isn't there.

After all, they have been told by the absolute masters of denial – the Bush administration and the Republican party – that the economy is healthy, that unemployment is just a measure of the laziness of those who don’t want to work, that well-paying jobs are plentiful for those willing to slither off the welfare couch and snap them up, that the billions being wasted on an unwinnable war in Iraq have no impact on our economy and its growth, that everything is fine-and-dandy and that big, fat elephant in the room is only a figment of the imagination of those who are actively looking for something to bellyache about.

After years of the populace crying out for the truth, the man who actually speaks it is now being vilified by those whose who see the last chance of survival of their already-defeated candidate in a declaration that ignoring the truth is in the country’s best interest, that encouraging the silence of the downtrodden is an honorable means to an end, that ignoring the elephant – one that has been sucking the life’s blood out of American citizens for decades – is just the kind of happy-dappy rhetoric that will put Hillary in the White House at last.

What the Hillary campaign has, along with its surrogates and supporters, refused to accept is that the populace that has lived with that elephant for far too long realize that the first step in ridding ourselves of its presence is the blatant, unvarnished, unapologetic acknowledgment that it exists.

The sheer brilliance, and down-to-earth humanity, of Obama’s most recent remarks is the audacity to encourage the idea that if we all pull together, the immediate removal of the elephant is not only possible, but probable.

And that is music to the ears of those who have consistently been told via right-wing talking points – whether delivered by the GOP or by Hillary Clinton – that the true pursuit of happiness lies not in acknowledging the elephant, but in going about attempting to clean our collective house while pretending that the larger-than-life animal, along with its inevitable and ever-growing pile of excrement, just isn't there.

[uponit7771]

1. They have to be working together, she HAS to know her NAFTA shit will come front and center now that

...she's tryin to slam Obama.

And know one believes Mrs. 109 million relates more to the little person than someone who just paid off his student loans a couple of years ago.

[mlevans]

105. The thing that concerns me

is that pieces like this don't get the wide exposure they need to do real good. Nancy has, as usual, hit the nail directly on the head with this issue (or non-issue, if you prefer), but how many people who are likely to believe the tripe are going to get the chance to read it? There are people out there, a fair number I believe, and many of them basically people of good will, who will take offense at Obama's words, not as he intended them, but through the filters of the MSM and/or the Clinton campaign. Where will they be likely to go that they might read something like this, something that might give them pause to actually think? I really have to wonder.

[stop the bleeding]

2. This line just nails it

Unfortunately for Hillary (as though she actually needed any more misfortune in her losing bid for the nomination), the people of Pennsylvania – along with people of every county, every state, every city, every small town – have been staring that elephant in the face for years, and are tired of hearing that it it isn't there.


K&R

[Oldtimeralso]

33. and I thought that I was looking at the other end of the elephant &

being buried by the waste!

[Sherman A1]

90. Agreed & Well Said

Eloquent, simply Eloquent... couldn't have said it better myself.

[bigtree]

3. maybe

Or, maybe he was just saying what he thought the interviewer (and the audience) wanted to hear. Politicians. Folks put such ridiculous depth behind what they say. In a campaign, that's just silliness.

[JeffR]

10. That's a possibility, and leads me to say two thing:

1) I've seen the argument advanced with some plausibility that the Wright thing and Obama's current comments are things he probably wishes he hadn't said or done. I don't believe that, but let's assume that point of view is accurate. In both cases, under this scenario, he's gotten himself a lot of free airtime and managed to use the gotcha scrutiny to demonstrate that he's smart, quick, and anything but the callow newbie his opponents want to cast him as. In any case, he demonstrates an ability to take jejune poutrage and turn it into an opportunity. If that's the way he deals with challenges, I expect he'll do just fine once he moves into the White House.

2) Nothing in the Dem primary race so far matches Clinton's immediate response to this "gaffe". It really was an outright example of what you mentioned, a willingness to say what she thought the audience wanted to hear. Will it help her? It could, in a narrow demographic that mostly won't break for whoever we nominate. Will it hurt her? Quite possibly, depending more on how the Obama campaign counters than on what she does. She's been on defense for quite a while now. Even a solid PA win might not change that. I don't think anyone knows how this particular issue will play out, but if I had to place a bet on it, I'd probably place it on Obama.

But your broader point stands, AFAIC: he's a politician campaigning. Yet he's a very gifted politician running an extraordinary campaign, and all prophecies of his imminent demise so far have come to nothing. The last politician I remember who managed to steer his way into the presidency in a similar fashion was Bill Clinton.

[ooglymoogly]

79. "jejune poutrage" I love it....Evelyn Waugh would be proud...actually from where I see it...

The Hillites are trying to camouflage the elephant in the room that is truth with a collapsed dead one they are dragging in from the shit pile that is the lie, trying like the devil to inflate it with the hot air of corporate media propaganda.

[papau]

95. people run to religion, hunting, and anti trade during hard times - an atheist might see that as

good politics - but others may not

[Voice for Peace]

11. if Obama's depth is inauthentic, he'll have a rude awakening once in office.

I truly doubt he is that stupid. He has asked the voters to hold him accountable. I will.

[bigtree]

35. Not many folks are stupid enough to squander that opportunity.

Our nominee will find their footing and their resolve when we elect them. And we'll have to work to keep them on the path we prepare, as always.

Bush may well have been an ominous precedent for the republican party, though. No hope at all for any rationality from that side.

[LiberalZrule]

64. If he is elected...

so will I. But think on this: what will Obama do or accomplish as president if we have a republican congress? This is how I feel: I like Obama's ideas though I do not support him at this time as president, but will he stick to them when the going gets tough in the Senate and the House when inexhaustible debate entails on his ideas? Filibustering and other crap which prevents change...this is the kind of thing I see republicans doing to keep Obama in check when he is president...Democrats do it and elected officals of both parties are masters of using each others tactics to their advantage. I want Hillary as first choice and Obama as second choice. I want a Democrat in office, but I want a democrat senate and house to bring about much needed change. Crossing the isle in bipartisianship is a fantasy. Only a clear majority of a political party in washington will accomplish anything for good or evil.

[PM7nj]

74. Why do you think we will lose Congress?

We have a very good chance to pickup A LOT of seats this year.

[MindMatter]

84. In fact, that is a primary reason to support Obama

Let's just say a person is objectively looking at Clinton and Obama, and honestly can't decide between the two.

That objective person can very easily settle the question by looking at all the new voters Obama is bringing into the process. His presence in the campaign has resulted in record turnouts in the primaries and caucuses all across the land. His campaign, separate from Democratic Party efforts, is registering millions of new voters.

Clinton is doing none of that. Obama brings in new Democratic voters to help push us over the top in Congress. Clinton brings out millions of hate-filled republicans who might otherwise stay at home in November. We're looking at a spread of 5,000,000 votes for Democrats in congress with Obama as the nominee.

[SunsetDreams]

12. Nah, it wasn't a one time thing

His whole campaign has been about this. Bitterness is the opposite of Hope.

He has said these same sentiments several times...did you listen to his speech on race? where he talked about resentment over losing jobs?

Maybe you haven't seen this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJut4-dHuV8 This was last year, check out minutes 11-14.

It's not like it's something new. Even this "outrage" dustup is late in the game on this latest similiar remark. It was a week ago.

Why didn't the Clinton campaign pick on his remarks before? There is an ugly agenda here, I have a feeling, because she was tanking in the polls in PA.

[bigtree]

36. Eloquent things have been expressed on both sides. I'll accept most of it as sincere.

But, I'll take care of what I hope for. I don't need the candidates to define those for me. I think they both understand what's at stake and will work to advance our Democratic agenda and values, as I believe most of our Democratic politicians have.

It's curious that you seem blind to the political opportunism from Obama's own camp. This is lovey-dovey stuff. Kid gloves. And Obama isn't immune from his own attacks which are portrayed as virtue against their portrayal of Clinton's words and actions as something more pernicious than the identical political skirmishing practiced by Obama's Axelrod and crew. It's a battle of contrived outrage. Obama's winning.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. I agree

With the tree. Religion had a whole different framing in South Carolina, where Obama produced the 'Faith and Family Tour' that included open speech targeting gays. His views expressed in SF I agree with, but they are far from the words and actions of the candidate in regard to religion in other places and Primaries.
Contrived outrage, Obama winning, I say in part by stating the ball rolling early and hard before most people were really looking.

[LiberalLovinLug]

71. The difference in Hillary and Obama critique

Ever notice that Hillary critics always have specific examples of inexcusable behavior
and Obama critics only speak in generalities? Its all about projecting some invention that he MUST be lying and betraying the party as much as their candidate but people just can't see it. That the MSM is just putting a blanket on it, or its all some misogynist conspiracy etc..

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Well said, as usual.

Is there any such thing as an elephant vampire? I think that's what's really in the room.

[JeffR]

5. Hey Josephine!

Where you going with that latt�é in your hand?

K & R.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. My dear Nance!

Oh, good!

I have truly been waiting for you to post tonight...

I need my brain cleared of all the nonsense I've been reading in GD/P today...:eyes:

Always a pleasure to K&R!

Well said, indeed...

Thank you...

:patriot:

[nonoxy9]

7. Thank you, Nance!! You expressed it PERFECTLY!!!

All day long I keep seeing the MSM talk about "Obama's slip-up", but I couldn't agree with him more! The only one of these three that speaks the truth and Hill and McCain can't stand it!
Honestly! When will the American people who keep crying for "change" quit voting for the "experienced" ones that got us in this MESS in the first place.
Bless you! :woohoo: :applause:

[bhikkhu]

8. K&R - Very well put.

One encouraging thing about this whole debate is how sensible and well stated most of the response is. The question seems almost tailor made for intelligent answers, squarely within the best history and intentions of the Democratic party. Your response does not disappoint, and all things here suggest that perhaps a day will come when we won't hear "PR disaster!" shouted from the rooftops when a politician dares to speak the truth openly and simply.

[Voice for Peace]

9. This is just putting me in the mood to donate to Obama. thanks Nance!

K&R

[SunsetDreams]

13. Great post Nance K&R

I just don't understand how anyone could not be pissed off, bitter, angry over the state of America and the Administration we've had over the last 7 years.

I could understand if it was the 30% who are happy with Bush. But I digress, because 81% of Americans say America is on the wrong path.

I guess maybe some here must be in the 19%? Which is surprising for progressives.

[babylonsister]

14. Auteur! Auteur! Applause!

:applause: :applause:

[The Doctor.]

15. You do realize...

That you may well have just pissed off every self-deluded Bush-voter Republican in America that reads DU.

Now they'll never vote for him! Nice going Nance.

[cliffordu]

16. OK, Nance...one more K&R!!!!

Maybe I should just have the mods write a utility that will automatically K&R every post you put up.

I am astonished at how you CONSISTENTLY see through the BS and the slime to deliver your level, honest, thorough analysis. PLEEEZE don't stop, though.


:kick:



:patriot:

Edited for clarity/punctuation.....

[myrna minx]

17. K&R. n/t

[bigbrother05]

18. K and R

Want to say something really ugly about Hillary, but I won't
Great post, I always look forward to your thoughts.
thanks

[kwenu]

19. Wonderfully written post as usual. Thanks.

[Aanya]

20. Hillary is past the point of doing me any good!

I was hoping this day would never come, but Hillary is more interested in a personal battle with Obama than full on war with McCain. Obama was right on the money with his remarks about so many of us being bitter! I'm not only bitter, I resent the fact that until a couple of months ago, no one even recognized that the economy I was living in really "stunk"! What made them finally wake up? I guess the rethugs were finding their gorgeous new homes were more than they should have taken on! A new house wasn't in my vocabulary the past 7 years, just trying to hang on to the old one!

My husband was layed off right after Sept 11, 2001! He was layed off again twice in the following 2 years. We've gone through so much of our savings, the word "retirement" just no longer exists. It's now a series of "eliminations". My husband reached 65, and could finally take full Social Security benefits and work and earn an unlimited amount of money. This is now a couple months off. This will be the first feeling of security we've felt in all the Bush years. As long as we keep our health, and can work, life will be good. As we get too old to carry on, we have to hope the value of our home has recovered enough to "sell" and keep us in some "assisted living" old folks home. We will go a step at a time now.

Do I have to explain further just how pissed off I am at Hillary? If Obama says the sky is blue, Hillary will attack him to claim the sky is gray. Well, Hillary, our lives have been altered in a way I never saw coming. We thank God everyday that our kids are all grown, and even more so, that we have no loved one in Iraq! We'll deal with the material losses we've been hit with, and realize everyday that there are over 4000 families who would trade places in a second to only be grieving the loss of a job! I'm insulted and disappointed in you Hillary!

[NanceGreggs]

21. Thanks for being here, Aanya ...

... and for sharing your story.

Welcome to the DU conversation.

[JeffR]

You should post this an an OP, Aanya

Be prepared for scoffing and the usual scuffles among responders, but this stands alone as a clear view of what the reality is behind what Obama's talking about and what Clinton seems simply to want to play Gotcha! politics about.

Good luck to you and your husband. I'm grateful that SS is one thing the Bush pirates haven't managed to ruin in 7+ years. Not that they didn't try, of course.

[Diane R]

37. Great post, Aanya. Good luck.

[antigop]

43. Welcome to DU, and thank you for sharing your story. I can relate to what you are going through.

Best of luck.

[Cha]

22. hilary's "experience" has been in

Bosnia ducking Sniper FIRE and now she's playing with fire.

[NanceGreggs]

24. One wonders how she had the vision to avoid sniper-fire ...

... when her greatest attribute has obviously been looking the other way.

[Cha]

28. I think Sinbad helped us out with that one..

<snips>

"In an interview with the Sleuth Monday, he said the "scariest" part of the trip was wondering where he'd eat next. "I think the only 'red-phone' moment was: 'Do we eat here or at the next place.'"

Clinton, during a late December campaign appearance in Iowa, described a hair-raising corkscrew landing in war-torn Bosnia, a trip she took with her then-teenage daughter, Chelsea. "They said there might be sniper fire," Clinton said.

Threat of bullets? Sinbad doesn't remember that, either.

"I never felt that I was in a dangerous position. I never felt being in a sense of peril, or 'Oh, God, I hope I'm going to be OK when I get out of this helicopter or when I get out of his tank.'"

In her Iowa stump speech, Clinton also said, "We used to say in the White House that if a place is too dangerous, too small or too poor, send the First Lady."

Say what? As Sinbad put it: "What kind of president would say, 'Hey, man, I can't go 'cause I might get shot so I'm going to send my wife...oh, and take a guitar player and a comedian with you.'"

As you may have guessed by now, Sinbad isn't supporting Clinton for president. He's an Obama guy. All because of Clinton.

"What got me about Hillary was her attitude of entitlement, like he messed up her plan, like he had no reason to be there," Sinbad said. "I got angry. I actually got angry! I said, 'I will be for Obama like never before.'"

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2008/03/sinbad_unloads_on_hillary_clin.html

[justgamma]

58. "What kind of president would say,

'Hey, man, I can't go 'cause I mght get shot so I'm going to send my wife"

I had to laugh at that. Bush did. Remember when there was some sort of "terror" threat in New York and he sent Laura down there to let people know it was ok?

[Scurrilous]

23. K & R

:thumbsup:

[mudesi]

25. K&R (nm)

[mythyc]

26. K&R. right to the heart of the beast, and its transfiguration

well said Nance. this part:

The sheer brilliance, and down-to-earth humanity, of Obama’s most recent remarks is the audacity to encourage the idea that if we all pull together, the immediate removal of the elephant is not only possible, but probable.

sums up much of this message and its pertinence to our potential. I thought "Audacity of Hope" was such as strange title when he published that book, but day after day it makes more sense. to be authentic Hope must be audacious, unrelenting, and inimitable. exactly...

[understandinglife]

27. "The sheer brilliance, and down-to-earth humanity, of Obama’s most recent remarks is the audacity ..

... to encourage the idea that if we all pull together, the immediate removal of the elephant is not only possible, but probable."

Yep. Rather hard to effect change if one constantly refuses to see the obstacle preventing it.

Obama places laser focus on the obstacle ... a big, stinking hulk of oligarchy spewing never ending lies and distractions (aka the neoconsters, the GOP and their DLC enablers - yes, Hillary you, and LIEberman, and Bill and a bunch of other bums).

Peace,
Bob

[Triana]

29. Thank you Nance...

..well said. K & R

[me b zola]

30. K&R!

:kick:

[rasputin1952]

31. One of the things that truly bothers me, and this may be esoteric

to some, is that the thought of 24-28 years of this country being in the hands of just two families is almost too much to bear.

I have nothing against HRC, nor do I have anything against Obama, I see them both as viable candidates and each would most likely make a good president. But our fight is not with either of them, as has happened here time and time again. Out fight is w/the GOP and the neo-cons that have taken that party down a dark road...which in turn has taken this nation to greater depth than ever before.

The R's have brought us to the brink of a massive depression, have allowed the treasury to be looted, have taken us into a quagmire and laughed in the face of the American citizen every chance they have had. People are pretty well fed up w/the neo-con GOP, and if we can get some pretty good numbers in both houses, as well as the WH, we just might be able to turn things around and become the party of FDR once again. The opportunity is there, and all of the hack jobs being cast about DU will finally become history and we will take out the trash.

The target of our disdain should be McCain. He represents more of the same, and if he gets 4 years in the WH, we can kiss what we believe this nation to be good-bye. I have kids and Grandkids, I want them to grow up in a country they have a chance in, a country they can be proud of. I want them to see the rest of the world if they so desire, but I don't want their Passports to be looked upon w/disdain as they land in a nation that was once friendly to us, but now sees us as Imperialists.

The fiscal conservatism that was once the hallmark for for the GOP has been tossed into the trash heap in favor of blatant wholesale looting. The party that once was the party of equality has become the preserve of bigotry and hatred. Many in the GOP rank and file know this, and they are looking for a change as well...they know they will get no change from McCain.

The only thing the GOP has is fear, and they will play that to the hilt. It is time that we see that our real enemy is McCain and the neo-con GOP. It is they who we must battle. Our nominee will come out of all of this, regardless of who it may be. But they will be battered and bloodied by our own, long before they take on the GOP slime machine. Some members have posted vile comments about both candidates, I hope they can show the dignity and grace in defeat that they have failed to show during this incredibly long Primary Season. If we do not all come to the conclusion that we have to work together, we are going to be in some pretty sorry shape come the GE.

From what I see at this point, it is apparent that Obama will win. Things could change, but I don't see that as a very viable option at this point. But the point of this post is really to try and give people the opportunity to come together and rid us once and for all of that massive elephant that is in the room. It can be done, and the rewards could be phenominal...not just for us, but for the R's as well. I feel as if a great movement is afoot. Granted, it is moving slowly, but it is moving. We won't see everything we want to see, but we can start this nation back on a road that will benefit the citizens of this nation, and by extension we will see the entire world benefit. We can pay down the debt, (I have always found it amazing that the neo-cons squeal for others to pull themselves up, but they gained so much from their own privilege, while actively denying those who wish to pull themselves up, the means to do so), we can get out of this war. We can once again look to Liberty in NY harbor and see the resolution in her face, instead of the tears.

We will make a difference, but we must work together. My chosen candidate, (Richardson) dropped out long ago. Such is the way things go. I will support the D nominee, because I want this nation to returned to it's greatest asset, it's People.

[Baby Snooks]

68. Why we are where we are...

The party loyalty. "I will support the (D)(R) candidate regardless of who they are." That is how we ended up with George W Bush twice.

George W Bush may have raped us. But William J Clinton ripped our clothes off and threw us to the ground. Hillary R Clinton no doubt has the knife to slash our throats with.

That's the way a lot of people feel. Nothing wrong with dynasties. Nothing wrong with two dynasties. Something very wrong with two dynasties that are really the same dynasty.

We need some people loyalty. "I will not support the (DR) candidate regardless of who they are. Enough of the dynasty. And enough of the Republicrats.

[rasputin1952]

75. I have a feeling that we may be on the verge of a new party

emerging in the future.

The two party system rolls along, generally because it has become ingrained, and they have both shifted sides on several occasions. What I see specifically is that this in not the GOP of Eisenhower, it is a cabal of thieves that have taken the nation for a ride since Nixon, and while Nixon was a crook, the followers in his path have become organized crime.

One of the keys to ensuring defeat is to try and please everyone. This is where the D's stand now. The appeasement of many different factions is their prime directive, and until major problems are dealt with, the various "lesser" items can never be dealt with. The way to get the nation behind a D is to provide viable answers for the problems we face as a nation, the problems that will cause this nation to crumble from within. I sympathize with many of the "lesser" situations, but if we cannot salvage the nation as a whole, we are essentially dooming ourselves because we cannot, or refuse to, see the larger picture. What complicates this further is the fact that many of the "lesser" items are intertwined with some of the largest issues. If we don't have a nation anymore, or a nation that has taken a horrible course, we can never attempt to alleviate the other problems we face. The destruction of a nation of Freedom loving people has taken a nasty turn under the GOP, and we are becoming a nation of wealthy elites deciding what is "best" for the rest of us. We are fast becoming an oligarchy, and there are still people that believe they can become part of the "ruling class" if they just follow along. This is about as far from the truth as one can get...power, by it's very nature, once confined to a few, will never be passed on to the population.

What is even more frightening, is that we have allowed this to happen. No one can really "take" Freedom from us, we have to give it up willingly, and through fear and distortion, the bush administration took advantage of the citizenry. So here we stand, naked among the wolves, with nothing but the power we hold in our vote to stem the tide. It can be done, but we must come together, and be vigilant as well.

As for the third party thought...I think that we will see something new emerge, and it could bode us well, or destroy us completely, we shall see. It won't be Nader, but rather some form of party that takes the best of fiscal responsibility and Human Rights and places them as a priority, opposing greed and treachery. But at this point, I'm putting my hopes in something the D's may come up with...a change from the disaster that the GOP has given us.

[Baby Snooks]

88. Well, if they're the Republicrats...

Well if they're the Republicrats, why don't we become the Demopublicans?

[rasputin1952]

92. No way...and I think the R's,

(those that enabled this disaster), are starting to realize just how bad things can get. After all, one of the most difficult things one can do is admit they made a mistake. The R's I speak with on a day to day basis are most certainly in the position of Buyers Remorse.

As for melding w/the R's, there are some true conservative points that are worth looking at, after all, balancing the budget was always a priority for them...right up until Reagan and the disaster he brought upon us. But I cannot see anything that could do on social levels or the infrastructure that is worth a damn. These are neo-conservatives, not true conservatives. It is no longer the party of Lincoln, it is the party of greed and avarice.

FWIW...I can't fathom voting R in my lifetime...but I also understand that compromise is the very essence of politics. As long as we can get them to see that taking care of this nation comes first, true R's, (those that DO believe that Lincoln had a good idea), will come around.

At the same time, we need to understand that social changes come slowly, we cannot just legislate hatred away, we need to ensure that the tools to fight it are presented to the people. Education is the key, and far too many have neglected that in the past.

[Baby Snooks]

100. The Republicans feel the same way...

Reality is this country has been divided and conquered along party lines. And people just don't understand that. Divide and conquer. Not one party. Both. There are just as many Democrats who are Republicrats as there are Republicans.

George W Bush may have raped us. But William J Clinton ripped off our clothes and threw us to the ground. George HW Bush lured us into the dark alley with his "kinder,gentler" America. The most liberal Republican ever elected to the White House. Until his son was. That's really what conservatives say about both of them. But never publicly.

And Hillary probably has the knife to slash our throats with. Go ahead and vote for her if she's the candidate. But remember that you voted for her. Because she was the Democratic candidate.

There are a lot of Republicans who did that in 2000 and 2004. And now regret it. Hard for Democrats to accept that. But it is the reality. They are just as fed up as everyone else.

Why so many of them are looking at Barack Obama. Some of them are remembering the party of Lincoln. The party of the people. And they see a candidate for the people that they don't see in John McCain. Or Hillary Clinton.

[DutchLiberal]

82. Unfortunately, the candidates who *could* restore the Dems into 'the party of FDR again',

have either dropped out long ago or have no chance in hell of winning.

[rasputin1952]

104. Some should look up th e"New Deal" and the aftermath after the

GOP got control and started rolling back many of the provisions.

the New Deal wasn't perfect by any means, but when the GOP started tearing it down, we went into a tailspin that we haven't recovered from yet. With just a little work, much of the New Deal could be tailored to todays US.

The big thing that really matters, is wresting control from the neo-con agenda and turning things around. If we don't do it this cycle, we're looking at a very gloomy future.

[madrchsod]

32. hillary has never faced a shut off notice

and begged them not to shut it off until the week after the rent is paid...

at least obama understands why people feel the way they do...living pay check to pay check hoping that things will work out someday.

[InfiniteNether]

34. Her denial of reality, and phony outrage is codespeak for not going to honor

any of her campaign pledges. Her calling Obama an elitist is just plain unforgivable as well as hypocritical. I don't care about her dumb fibs...if I liked her, I would defend her on them. But she has clearly revealed herself to be a neoconservative.

[Jackpine Radical]

38. How can you tell when you have elephants in your economy?

They leave footprints in the macaroni & cheese you've been reduced to eating.

[Madam Mossfern]

49. Cheese?

If you can afford it.
More like rice and beans.

[DeeDeeNY]

39. Feigned outrage nails it, Nance

And Hillary is just not that good an actress to pull it off. But unfortunately, the media don't see it this way.
They prefer to say BO "misspoke", giving soundbites instead of full context. Let's hope it doesn't become a case of BO being tagged as an "elitist" the way Gore was tagged as a "liar" and Kerry a "flip-flopper", while McLame is a "maverick".

[H2O Man]

40. It is no coincidence

that the candidate who is in last place in the democratic primary is saying the same thing about the first place candidate as is the republican opposition.

[frogcycle]

41. indeed, he spoke truth

unfortunately, he ad-libbed and used a couple of ill-chosen words. Well big damned deal.

He did not say that every gun owner is only a gun owner because of bitterness. Those who attempt to read broader and deeper meaning into each and every utterance are fools.

When someone of intelligence waxes philosophical about the human condition, it is worthwhile. It provokes thought and discussion. Sensible intelligent people in discourse with him might have said, "well, I don't know that 'clinging to religion' or '...guns' are the best examples; probably set off some folks hot buttons, but your point is well taken."

People who have come to feel powerless about their circumstances tend to try to find something they CAN control, and frequently obsess about it. This is a pretty well-documented phenomenon. Shoot, where did the Negro Spirituals come from? "Swing low, sweet chariot, comin' for to carry me home..."

People were "clinging" to religion; everyone knows it; nobody denies it.

People who insist that the rationale for retaining the individual right to bear arms is that they may some day need to fight off the US Army and "Black Helicopters" are deluding themselves. I am not objecting to their owning guns; I am just saying that they are kidding themselves that ultimately they will have some sort of control, much like collecting duct tape and plastic wrap, or hiding under the school desk in the 50's.

These, I believe, are the points he was making, and they are valid. He erred in using them not because they were wrong but because they would be used to tell people who are already pretty desperate that he somehow demeaned them. The simplistic interpretations by the media and other candidates are insulting to the intelligence of those of us capable of comprehending words with more than one syllable.

[lostnotforgotten]

42. Hillary Is The Poster Child For Political Correctness

We have all listened to the Orwellian double speak that has infiltrated this society in the last 30 years.

This one rankles particularly - there are no problems only challenges - arrrgh!

[Chipper Chat]

70. Hillary's "polyanna" response astounds me.

She must have had a transfusion of green blood from Peggy Noonan or Phyllis Schlafly.

[dazzlerazzle]

44. excellent

Nance Gregg has that ability to lay out what people are thinking, making you realize why something said by the candidates and their teams makes you wonder. I have been in conversations with working class people, not knowing what party they are registered with, and many of them bring up the thought that Ms Clinton acts as if she has some kind of entitlement to the presidency, and it bothers them as it does myself.

[mnhtnbb]

45. They're both right and both wrong. For once, Nance, I disagree with you.

Obama was right that people are pissed off or bitter or angry or whatever word you want to choose
to describe being fed up with our representatives not giving a damn about the little guy. He was wrong
to link those feelings as motivation for small town folks to embrace religion or guns. Hillary is right
about that; many people from small towns have grown up with spiritual values that are inherent--regardless of whether the government is paying attention or not. Hunting with brothers, fathers, sons, daughters, sisters
is also a way of life.

Hillary is wrong to not get the fact that people--regardless of whether they live in small towns or large cities-- are plenty pissed off or angry or bitter. But she's right that just because you're pissed doesn't equate with religious values or being a member of the NRA.

I see this as one more example of why I liked John Edwards: you would never have heard him make a comment like the one Obama made. He got it; he understood folks from small towns because he was from one himself.
Both Obama and Hillary have come from privileged backgrounds; both are products of elite schools; both have a sense of entitlement and arrogance. That's why neither one of them 'gets it'. Just my humble opinion.

[dbmk]

83. hmm

As far as I can tell he did not say their love of those things, guns, religion and so on, stemmed from their bitterness. But that those were the issues they stuck to and voted on and NOT economic issues - which would potentially be to their benefit. Because they had been let down on that issue.

And btw; I would like to see your thoughts on how Obamas background can be considered especially priviledged.

[mnhtnbb]

85. From the exclusive Punahou School in Hawaii to Columbia and Harvard Law meets

my criteria for privileged.

http://www.punahou.edu/page.cfm?p=11

Check out the story http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17003563/

He did not grow up in the projects on the south side of Chicago or South Central L.A. or any other
inner city. He was raised by a white mother and white grandparents.

From my perspective, Obama is a white male with dark skin. His life has NOT been the life of most
African Americans.

Flame away.

[dbmk]

87. Not going to flame anything.

But first; Could you give me your thoughts on my other point about Obamas statement? Because I disagree quite a bit on your logic behind your evaluation on whether Obama "gets" rural America. I think you are reading something into it that he is not saying.

Anyways; We might view the term background a little differently. I think its difficult to use what schools you have gone to, to evaluate your background. At least to the extent you seem to emphasize on it.
As a kid of colour, being raised by your white grandparents and your white single mother, to the extent she was home, in a two bedroom apartment downtown Honolulu does not strike me as especially privileged. Ok, so he is not straight out of Compton, but lets be fair.
Especially if you lob him into the same category as Hillary Clinton.

And when you start factoring in the choices Obama has taken professionally, given his options and the chances of him being where he is - entitlement and arrogance is not exactly words I think are fair.

[Kermitt Gribble]

46. Great post, Nance, as usual.

I was an Edwards supporter who half-heartedly switched to Clinton, though I liked Clinton and Obama almost equally. My support the past month or so has shifted back to just being a Democrat and happily supporting whoever wins the nomination. This false outrage by Clinton over Obama's "bitter" comment, I feel, is really an embarassment to her. Most of us are bitter towards our government - it seems Clinton and McCain do not want people to realize that this bitter feeling is shared by a majority of the country. Good for Senator Obama for making these comments and shame on Senator Clinton for negatively spinning them. Though I still like and respect her as a senator, I'm finally going to say it's time for her to step aside.

[GeorgeGist]

47. Say it Loud

The Audacity of Hope is Not Bitter

[BumRushDaShow]

48. The corporatists don't want the masses to wake up and hear the truth. n/t

[Bensthename]

50. I'll say it again. Obama's downfall is telling the truth,. Some can't handle it.

[mcollier]

53. This is a winning argument for Barack

Thanks for the Post Nance... The debates on Wednesdays will be fun to watch.

[OwnedByFerrets]

51. Nailed it again Nance...

thanks for putting it in words that everyone can understand....if they just want to hear it. Many will still lalalalalalalalalalalalalalala.

[grannylib]

52. Thank you, Nance - you nailed it, as usual. I would add that part

of the truth that needs to be acknowledged by the corporate elite and their apologists is that another way to think of "employees" is as "potential consumers." Big business perpetuates the cycle of declines in consumer spending/savings rates by trying to increase profits at labor's expense, thereby cutting the very spending on which they rely FOR those profits.

Obama gets it. We get it. We're living it. The opposition is attempting to make a mountain out of a molehill, while ignoring, as you say, the ever-growing pile of excrement from the unacknowledged elephant.

[roseBudd]

54. great post!

[kentuck]

55. I'm sure it hasn't been her experience...

As Shrum said this morning on MTP, she has lived in a bubble for the last 25 years...

[YDogg]

56. The lady doth protest too much.

[cooolandrew]

59. Yes, a pursuit of happiness doesn't always encouter happiness on the way but it is the end game.

[Bjorn Against]

60. Great post Nance! K&R

[leaningprog]

61. Politico chimes in

I read a piece on Politico about what the Clinton's would say if
the duct tape were off their mouth. It was interesting. In essence
it said the Obama has a problem with Jewish voters (3% US population)
and working class whites and Hispanics.

"Rip off the duct tape and here is what they would say: Obama has serious problems with Jewish voters (goodbye Florida), working-class whites (goodbye Ohio) and Hispanics (goodbye, New Mexico)."

All of this in my opinion is the divide and conquer with doubt, fear,
and manipulation strategy of many people but especially the Clintons.

We know that Jewish people are a small slice of America's population,
but are treasured as among our best and most decent, and especially
for us Democrats, have long been among the most generous with media support and concentrated campaign funding. This is one part of the
enormous contribution that Jewish people have made and are making
to our nation and culture.

At the heart of this argument is the age old paradigm:

If left to their own devices, most Americans will abandon
Jews, poor white people, and Hispanics. And so to counter
this, elections need to be highly influenced and preconceived
and constructed to only make choices from candidates who are
vetted and pre-approved by unelected but powerful special interests.

This is one reason American politics has left us with gridlocked
and default office holders at the very top in recent years.
I personally believe that if our process stops playing the fears
of it's own people against themselves and starts to actually
work out the kinks with it's constituent parts, it will get better
for everyone.

We are stuck in our politics and the signs of it are all over the
headlines and cities and towns in America. This nation was never
supposed to be about manipulating the fears of Jews, working class
whites, or Hispanics to obtain power and then stay locked in the
same hatred based fight to maintain it.

This is my biggest concern about the Clintons. If there is not
discord, or mistrust, or deep fears or resentment to tap,
they don't know what to do. We will never get leadership from
them because they only know how to seek power.

[defendandprotect]

62. "I'm mad as hell - and I'm not going to take it anymore" . . . how long ago was that?

Hey -- Randi Rhodes -- who frequently repeats that quote --- is back tomorrow !!!

[Baby Snooks]

63. The message of Hillary Clinton and John McCain

It's the same message. If you're doing well by the oligarchy, then vote for them. Either way, you can't lose.

As I posted elswhere, we really only have one party in this country. The Republicrats. There are quite a few in both parties who are doing well by the Republicrats. And so they will vote for their Republicrat. Without really realizing both candidates are the same. They just have a different "label" attached to them.

To hell with everyone else. That is what America has come to? To hell with everyone else?

Hillary Clinton and John McCain talk about the party which a growing number of Americans are realizing is the same party. Barack Obama talks about the people. Why so many in both parties will vote for Barack Obama but won't vote for Hillary Clinton or John McCain.

That is the one thing Hillary Clinton cannot claim. That she might be able to draw support from Republicans at the polls in November.

What is most appalling is the superdelegates who are willing to support Hillary Clinton despite their constituents having voted for Barack Obama. To hell with their constituents. To hell with everyone else.

We will not decide who will be president in November. We will decide whether our democracy will prove the prediction of Benjamin Franklin wrong. We will decide whether we rise up again as the greatest nation or fall as the most morally corrupt nation in the history of civilization.

[file83]

65. I'm voting for Obama, but I swear, if he becomes President and doesn't change anything...

...then all hope is lost. After that speech he gave the other day about how no one in the past has DELIVERED on their promises of change, but that he will, he better fucking deliver on his promise now.

Obama, help us help you help us.

[Baby Snooks]

69. The power of the veto...

He might surprise everyone and start using the veto to speak for the people. It might be nice to have a president who used the power of veto for the people instead of against the people.

Even if Congress overrides it, he will have spoken for the people. Something Nancy Pelosi didn't understand when she decided that impeachment was off the table. That was the point she no longer spoke for the people. Which woke some of the people up finally.

[LongTomH]

66. God! I love that woman!

Nance, of course. who'dja think I was talking about?:loveya:

[butterfly77]

67. Excellent post as always..

I almost K&R before I've read what is being said.

[jeff30997]

72. Water bordered?

How Murkan!

[otohara]

73. Awesome Post

nance -

[Evergreen Emerald]

76. There is a difference between fighting mad and bitter and ...

... therefore turning to religion and guns. His statement was wrong. And stupid. And the minute anyone calls him on anything, the distortions come out in his defense.

"This is what he meant" And the Clinton attacks begin anew in earnest. While all attempt to restate what he really should have meant.

Have fun Nancy. Your bias demeans you.

[MADem]

86. I have to concur with you.

You know we're in the minority, but your post is accurate.

[Seabiscuit]

89. I'll give Nance one thing. She puts a better "spin" on Obama shooting himself in the foot with a

machine gun than Obama does.

In any event, it's all very pathetic, and the more "spin" the Obama apologists try to put on it all, the more his stupid statements are not going to go away in the press.

Someone else put it best:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5467884&mesg_id=5470418

[NanceGreggs]

93. What prompted this OP in the first place ...

... was the many threads over the past two days posted by Clinton supporters who 'intepreted' Obama's words to mean he was saying that small town citizens are gun-toting, bigoted religious fanatics. Not what he said at all.

In addition, I find it highly amusing for any Clinton supporter to be talking about how she is the one being attacked. She wasted no time in 'attacking' Obama's statements - I understand there were "Bitter" stickers and buttons already being handed out this morning. She didn't waste any time, did she?

Of course, we all know that if Obama was the type who is consistently on the attack, he could have taken the Bosnia story and beat the little bit of life that's left in Hillary's campaign (and her credibility) with it. But he chose not to.

You don't see any "SHE LIED ABOUT BOSNIAN SNIPER-FIRE" buttons being handed out at Obama events, now do you?

If Hillary had anything, ANYTHING, positive to say about herself at this point, she wouldn't be in attack-mode 24-7.

She's gone, she's lost, she's toast. Accept it.

[Evergreen Emerald]

94. He doesn't need the buttons...he has the media 24/7

Really. A fair playing field that is all anyone can ask for. What a shame.

[NanceGreggs]

96. Oh, that's right ...

I keep forgetting that Hillary, who started this race in the lead and every possible advantage, is now fighting for her political life due to the media, sexism, unfair attacks, being outspent, etc.

It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that she has (a) run what is possibly the worst campaign in US history, and (b) her own exaggerations, misrepresentations, and out-and-out lies. Not to mention the unpleasant reality that more people have voted for Obama than have voted for her, which probably means they prefer him as POTUS.

Poor Hill.

[Evergreen Emerald]

97. There are many reasons why Clinton is not leading in this bid for the nomination

Much of it has to do with the media, sexism, and unfair attacks. I agree that she has made mistakes in her campiagn--as has Obama. But any mistake for Clinton is fatal, as it is seized upon by the media and Obama's camp and made into mountians--and even made up.

The hospital / bosnia / tax returns etc.

[NanceGreggs]

98. Someone "made up" ...

... her Bosnia lie, her hospital story, AND her tax returns?

Geesh, I didn't know that.

[Evergreen Emerald]

99. Well, there you go, perhaps you should find out before you write

attack pieces on Clinton.

The bosnia story was unreasonable and made into something it was not.

The hospital story was proven false--and you don't know that? Yikes.

The tax returns: Obama called for them when he had not even had his released...and then he had to do some fancy friday info drops about how much Rezko actually gave him through his surrogates (dare I say he LIED before?)

Yes...one person's mountain is another person's molehill. I guess it depends on your bias. Unfortunately, the media's bias is well known disfavoring Clinton, so propaganda reigns supreme.

[Major Hogwash]

101. Shhhh, Hillary's 35 points behind in North Carolina.

They'll hear you.

Shhhhhhhh.

[NanceGreggs]

102. The only thing about the Bosnia story ...

... that was "made into something it was not" was Hillary's version thereof.

The desperation is getting really sad. Your candidate has lost. It's as simple as that.

[cui bono]

107. HAHAHAHA!!! Did you think Nance simply forgot the sarcasm smiley?

Wow. You are so far gone.

How was the Bosnia story made into something it's not?
Hillary lied -more than once- about landing in sniper fire and how the greeting ceremony had to be canceled and they had to sit on flak jackets then run straight to the car ducking for cover. The video shows that is ALL LIES. It shows that she was read a poem by a young Bosnian girl who was part of the "canceled" greeting ceremony. Oh, right, I forgot. It's the MEDIA's fault since they played it on air. Silly me.

Stop with all the lame excuses. Nance was right in her OP and right in her responses to you. Hillary brought this on herself. She's done a piss poor job of managing her campaign and I certainly wouldn't want someone like her being president. Before her BS tactics I thought she would make a good president if only we agreed on policies. Now I don't even think that. She really needs to give up.

[Heathen57]

103. He was saying something that is true

but most people want to ignore.

When the public in general are feeling bitter, hopeless, desperate, or whatever you want to call it, they will turn to the things that are familiar and comforting to them. Thus, the turning to their religion and their guns is so true.

I could say something about Hillary not understanding and not wanting to, but the subject has been covered in this thread already.

[lyonn]

77. With blinders on you can't see that menacing elephant in the room

We have all seen since bush took over how middle America has been ignored. Many are not even classified as "middle" anymore. The repubs for the past 2 presidential elections have hammered religion, gun and gays. Obama is trying to tell the people that he recognizes there are other issues that the govt. can do to benefit them and this country's strength. These are issues that have been totally ignored by the repubs and some of those in the middle or those less politically aware. When it hits their bank accounts they begin to pay attention. The only thing elite about Obama is his education that he earned. He knows what he is talking about, he has lived it!

P.S. Nancy Greggs, would you believe that yesterday while going through some papers, kids and grandkids mementos, invite to my 50th high school reunion, etc., was a printout of something harsh you wrote about bush, Aug. 27, 06. It was called "Let Me See If I've Got This Right". I must have thought you had nailed it when it came to our worthless president since I saved it!? You did nail it!

[ooglymoogly]

78. Yes and it is time to bust out with song....You've got to hand it to little Mary Sunshine....

for she's very merry all the time.

[Skarbrowe]

80. I'm supposing her fingernails are hurting. nt

[ulysses]

81. 121

A Democratic candidate not named Dennis saying something slightly risky and out of the ordinary during an election? Mon Dieu!

:thumbsup:

[Peanut Butter]

91. :)

[Clintonista2]

106. (Hint: It's not the "bitter" comment, it's the "church and guns BECAUSE you're bitter" comment)