to be honest, i had been misinterpreting bittergate. At first I thought people were just up in arms

[Levgreee]

about him saying people reacted in that manner politically, that they focus on gun rights, or politics of religion, or immigration, and determine their vote that way. They cling to these issues when they decide who to vote on... and there is the implication that they are doing so somewhat irrationally... and I thought that implication was what was offensive.

PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY SAYING that Obama meant that they go to church, or own guns, to deal with the economy? That they come home from a hard days work and hug their gun, or join a church? This is ridiculous!

I feel ashamed for our political arena, this is so silly. Peoples' reading comprehension is so low, of course, not helped by the spin that Hillary and McCain are giving.

[2rth2pwr]

1. Out of curiousity, what's your interpretation of what he said?

[dkf]

2. He said rural voters base their vote on things other than the economy because

all the promises politicians make about rural jobs and rural economies go unfulfilled, which have made them bitter about these types of promises.

So they cling to the things that have sustained them through the years...their religious faith, their rights (most importantly the 2nd amendment), and their own communities.

[Levgreee]

5. what do you mean exactly, placing their faith?

all I took it as was where they placed their priorities politically, what they looked for in politicians, what issues they paid attention to.

They do not put more or less weight into those values, they do not become a more staunch Christian. They do become a more political Christian, though. They cling to those Christian values and bring them into the political arena.

[dkf]

9. Placing Faith is where you put your trust.

You trust God, you trust your church, you trust in your ability to protect yourself...you don't trust government, because the government never did much for you economically.

When you saw your community falling apart because the jobs moved away and never came back, those politicians came election year after election year to tell you about all the great programs they were going to set up to revitalize your town and it never happened.

So now there is no belief because you've heard it all and seen it all, and they never come through. Its more that there is no faith in government rather than there is increased faith in all the other things. Its just that when the government's economic policies never did seem to work for you, then why should you vote based on a candidate's economic policy?

[2rth2pwr]

11. and you don't place your vote with someone who belittles or

demeans your faith or your ability to protect yourself,

[dkf]

13. Hello, that IS Obama's faith. Why would he demean believing in God?

Seems to me that he feels it more strongly than Hillary does.

[dkf]

3. Yeah, they have the cause and effect portions all bass-ackwards.

[woolldog]

4. We really get the leadership we deserve don't we.

Look at the dumb issues this election has revolved around. Bush managed to convinced the voters of Ohio that he was just a regular guy like them, nevermind that he came from a wealthy powerful family, then he proceeded to screw them for 8 years.

You'd think voters would learn, but I don't know.

[Catherina]

6. It's not low reading comprehension, it's deliberate bad faith

[cooolandrew]

7. Anything he says they are using for politcal everage and it is too obvious now. Obama should call...

...them on it. It is one thing to mislead a people as with bosnia, but another to spin words to a new meaning.

[Neshanic]

8. Try Babelfish next time. The Obama version. You will not be so confused.

[johnnydrama]

10. why did people vote for George W Bush?

If it isn't obvious what Obama was saying, why did people vote for George W Bush? Was it his great economic policies that would help the average voter?

Of course not. They voted for him because he told them that Gore was going to take their gun away. And he told them that I'm a Christian just like you are. And he told them he wouldn't let those darn gays marry each other that make you feel uncomfortable.

That's why George Bush got those voters. Not for anything that would help an average American.

And when asked why he thinks a lot of those people may not vote for him, that was his answer. And it was the right answer.

[Levgreee]

12. yes, it is completely a voting issue. The question was, "how are you going to get them to vote

for you."?

[TahitiNut]

14. Pavlovian Politics ... ring the bells of "God, guns, and gays" and the voters foam at the mouth

Why? Because the average person benumbed by the dumbing down of the country has an OPINION (the only "right" opinion, of course) on those ... and it's the last firewall surrounding their battered, tired, stressed out hearts.

If there's ANYTHING that proves the truth of what Obama said, it's the fact that folks went IMMEDIATELY to CODE RED and formed battle squares. "Who does he think he is to suggest we're not God-loving?" (He didn't.) "Who does he think he is to claim we only like guns because we're bitter?" (He didn't.)

"Bitter"? Fuck yes. We've been bitter so long we can't remember when we weren't. Turned off. Tuned out. "They're ALL liars and crooks!" (Clue: Cynicism is a symptom of that bitterness.) Do we find ways to "smell the roses"? Sure. Some go to church. (And pray for a job.) Some go hunting. (If they can still afford the ammo.)

Why the hell is it that the predominant way the politicians have roused their rabble is by raising the specter of "God, guns and gays"??

Want an OBVIOUS example? How many times have we seen posts that proclaim the MOST important thing is to keep the right wing from getting yet another Supreme Court Justice ... and protecting Roe v. Wade??? There's a Pavlovian bell for you! FORGET the off-shoring and wholesale evisceration of our economy! FORGET the giveaways to the wealthy! FORGET the ever widening and deepening chasm between the "ownership class" and the "working class"! OMIGOD!!! They want to control my WOMB!!

Just ring that bell and watch all the stuff that's more difficult to deal with get thrown under the bus. FOrget jobs, for crissakes ... they're fucking with CHOICE! (Guess what? That's been going on for 100 years. It works. It reduces everything to knee-jerk and folks forget that it hasn't got a FUCKING THING TO DO WITH Political Systems or theories and principles of governance. The ONLY reason it's a partisan issue is because it works for BOTH "sides."

The "values" people. Even after they've lost their jobs, they still have "values." Well, of COURSE we do! So THREATEN them!

Whenever I think DU has reached some low point in rational discourse, it goes right ahead and finds and even lower point ... and the Hillbots have sure shown the way to the SEWER.

There isn't a goddamned thing that Obama said that isn't obvious. But the things some people are suggesting he said were just not said. Folks that peddle that shit are either lying (we call it "spin" but it's a lie) or functionally illiterate fools.


Sheesh! :grr:

[bhikkhu]

15. Watch the damn video.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x117879

Its all there.

[Levgreee]

16. bump, still sort of in awe

and I just noticed another thing.

He says... they cling to those things... "as a way to explain their frustrations".

AS A WAY TO EXPLAIN. Not as a way to cope, as people seem to be pushing.

Goddamn, it would be horrible to not be able to make such a small mistake, at a private event... Obama must be on edge.