Clinton calls Obama an "elitist"- does she really mean "uppity"?

[npincus]

That's right, "uppity". Let's play hardball. This can get very ugly. Super-ds, are you listening?

HRC & Bill can rake in $$$ by playing kissy-face with the super rich, but Obama.... lest he show he may be in their strata, he is an "elitist". So, what's their expectation? All this is spin, spin, spin of course. But that seems to be the game HRC is playing. I've read the "elite" robocalls are going out fast and furious in Pa. It's time for Obama to "go there" (sniper fire-gate., "trust" as an issue.. the Clintons lie like rugs, etc.)

2 cents will get you...

[fjc]

1. She's following the William Kristol line of attack,

which means yes, "elitist" means "uppity".

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[npincus]

5. Wow...

I think Obama surrogates should get this out there (the candidate must deny deny deny, remain above it all) but once the HRC camp is accused of sending the "uppity" message to (white) voters, they will drop it like a flaming potato. That will put this one away, put THEM on defense on an issue they have already been called out on.

You think?

[wndycty]

11. Here she is celebrating her day of putting Obama in "his place" with her new friends

Democratic presidential hopeful, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., tosts with a shot of Crown Royal with left, Bronko's owner Nick Tarailo, second from right, and Ed Hall, right as she stops at the bar during a campaign stop at Bronko's restaurant in Crown Point, Ind., on Saturday, April 12, 2008.
(AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//080413/480/3e9a1966cffc48b3a1c681135733e1d5/



Democratic presidential hopeful, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., raises her mug of beer in a toast with Hammond, Ind., Mayor Tom McDermott, left, as she stops at the bar during a campaign stop at Bronko's restaurant in Crown Point, Ind., Saturday, April 12, 2008. Ed and Patty Hall are seated right.
(AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//080413/480/655d9a6a645c453eb8b15dfea67d1c5e/

[connecticut yankee]

15. Whiskey with a beer chaser

isn't that called a "boilermaker?"

[Clintonista2]

13. There you go again.

[POAS]

3. K&R along with a

:popcorn:

This one could get ugly!

[thepurpose]

4. I don't think thats a fair charge, full disclosure I support Obama, however, I think she is just

trying to win. I don't like how she is giving the GOP talking points if Obama is the eventual winner, but I think uppity implies she is racist and to me that's and unfair charge against Hillary. Sorry if I misreading what you are trying to say.

[npincus]

7. well. let's just call "elite" a code word...

HRC is exploiting Obama's words, spinning them to their most offensive and destructive interpretaion so I say it's fair game to blow the shit storm back in HER direction. If HRC has been fair in her exploitation of Obama's words, then she doesnt deserve any of this. Since I don't think she has, and this stategy may be quite hurtful to Obama, I say all's fair.

[Asgaya Dihi]

8. I don't think she's racist

I do think she's willing to use the racism and fears of others as a tool to win. It's a marginal difference but it is a difference, for now at least. Same with the loose association with the truth in the Bosnia thing and elsewhere, same with the disenfranchisement arguments which suggest that not letting two States vote is wrong but disregarding the will of voters in all 50 States after the vote is fine, same with a lot of this stuff. There's no consistent logic or right and wrong, it's just a matter of what serves them at the moment.

What I think she, and many of her followers, don't quite understand yet, is that when you adopt the tactics of the other side eventually you adopt their attitudes as well, in ways you become them or more like them. The aggressive and Rovian way the campaign has been run is going to leave a lot of those who used to be decent progressives closer to repub than they ever thought they could be simply because they kept going along with it. You can't live like that, think like that, and attack like that for any length of time without it on some level changing who you are.

I just hope when this all calms down they still have the honesty left to be embarrassed at the way they've acted.

[thepurpose]

10. Yes. I agree she is willing to use anything to win even campaigning as a republican and I think that

is more what she is doing.

[Skidmore]

14. How can you not be racist but willing to use racism and fear?

That is really splitting a very small hair indeed.

[Asgaya Dihi]

16. Yeah, it is

That's why I said it changes people.

For some reason people seem to think they can adopt the tactics of the other side and still remain who they were. It doesn't work, not for people, parties, or nations. We see it everywhere from the torture and killing we've seen in the war so far to the constant rightward slide of our own party, and in the fact that so much has happened over recent years but the public is so little disturbed by it. They'll say they don't like it but they don't care to do anything about it.

Think we started off being who we are today? It started with one small compromise, then the next, then the next. No, they didn't consider themselves bad people or racists but they damned sure supported policies over recent decades which had a http://www.prisonsucks.com/">strongly racial effect. All it takes is one compromise of principle, followed by the next, followed by the next, and sorry or I didn't mean to doesn't in any way mitigate the damage done. We've compromised too many times on too many issues for decades now and become something we never planned to be and we've nobody to blame but ourselves.

[EffieBlack]

38. It's possible

One does not have to believe that black people are inferior in order to be willing use other people's misconceptions or fears about black people for one's own advantage.

[Skidmore]

40. If a person is using someone else's prejudices to their advantage

they are so cowardly that they cannot give voice to their own prejudice. It is deceitful and manipulative. If you are willing to engage in such a thing, then what other conniving corruption will come next.

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. No, she means "pointy-headed intellectual" a la....

... Stevenson, McGovern, McCarthy, Hart. Harvard; elbow patches; tweed jackets. Get it?

Which sets up the Edith Bunker, soccer-mom, Ms. Joe Sixpack everywoman role for Madam Wellesely. "Just in time for PA!"... her analysts are thinking.

It would be a hoot if it weren't so friggin.... what's the word... EMBARRASSING. It's late and getting later.

Fear not, it won't be long now.

[Political Heretic]

9. NO. It has nothing to do with that.

She sees and opportunity to exploit a poorly worded - if essentially accurate - statement by Obama. Elitist <> Uppity. Uppity would consider Obama "arrogant" for being a black man and thinking he could run for president. Elitist has to do with some person being out of touch and/or disdaining working poor and middle class.

Now I agree with the rest of it - the charge of elitism is ironic and ridiculous, and Obama most certainly should punch back. But let's not throw around race as a political tactic... in this case, I don't think the shoe will fit.

[npincus]

12. well, since she has shown an enthusisam for taking the low road

to win, I would say the quickest way to shame her campaign and put this issue away is to suggest she is putting that message out there. Fairness has nothting to do with it- has HRC been fair? Her campaign is desperate and is working this like there's no tomroow- they are giving out "I'm not bitter" stickers in Pa! How much longer can this go on before it sticks? It's got to be nipped in the bud.

[dailykoff]

28. Unfortunately her campaign has no shame

so calling them on their racism isn't going to accomplish much, but it's still important to do it.

[Cassandra]

31. I think she's hoping to win over...

an element of those bitter whites who find the idea of a black man telling them what their problem is quite uppity. Since they don't have the status of the decent paying jobs they used to have, at least they can make themselves feel better by having someone to look down on. The RW has been placating them with liberals, gays and welfare queens, and now Hillary wants to include a well-educated black man who wants to help them in that list.
That was a little convoluted in sentence structure, so I hope I'm making sense.

[formercia]

17. Hillary is using a racist code word to drive white voters.

PA has a lot of Archie Bunker types that eat this shit up.

[dailykoff]

19. Yep.

What else does she have at this point?

[bigtree]

22. Then Obama is using 'code' to drive black voters. You can't just drop your racism at Hillary's feet

and expect that Obama shouldn't be judged by the same standard. If you can apply racism to words which have nothing at all to do with race than the same can be applied to Obama's words. When he says hope, he really means . . .

This is a bullshit game being spread by irresponsible demagogues who believe their own race-baiting of Clinton here is above reproach. It isn't.

[dailykoff]

24. What racial code word is Obama using?

Back up your claims please.

[bigtree]

26. supporters here who've raised this crock against Clinton, not Obama

that's what I've been talking about. Pay attention.

[dailykoff]

29. You said: "Obama is using 'code' to drive black voters."

So tell us please, what racial code words is OBAMA (not his supporters) using? Or was that just a touch of Bosnian sniper fire?

:rofl:

[bigtree]

30. so, you're either intellectually tone deaf, or you have a cute agenda here

I used Obama as a mirror to show that he isn't immune from bullshit charges of racism imposed on statements which had NOTHING at all to do with race, as this new wave of race-baiting intends to do to Hillary Clinton's words. Pay attention.

[BlueStateGirl]

39. Elite is a racist code word?

[QC]

43. All criticism of Obama is racist.

:sarcasm:

[formercia]

45. It translates as 'Uppity', which is racist in her context.

like High Yella' or House N*****. It's one thing if a Black person calls another Black person out, totally different context if a White person uses it.

My apologies for any offense.

[BlueStateGirl]

56. Why does it translate us uppity? If she criticized a white politician

as elite, wouldn't it just mean elite?

If it takes on a racist conotation just because of the color of Barak's skin, then there really is no criticizing him because suddenly everything is a racist code word.

I understand what he was saying, and even agree with him, although I think it could have been phrased better. But I don't think Hillary calling him an elitist equates to calling him uppity. That's like saying that Obama's use of the word "periodically" when describing Hillary's emotional state is sexist, just because she is a woman.

Bottom line is that they are both elites. Ivy league educations, both members of the US Senate, and although the Clinton wealth is far greater than the Obamas, I believe they both reside in the upper 2%.

[QC]

60. "there really is no criticizing him because suddenly everything is a racist code word"

BINGO! That's the purpose!

[dailykoff]

18. Somebody somewhere pored over word of that bootleg tape

to pick out a phrase that might resonate without making Hillary look like the desperate bottom feeder we all know she is. So, yes, of course. Uppity, holier than thou, doesn't know his place, Communist, whatever.

[bigtree]

20. no, that's a lie being spread by folks

who don't believe they can be regarded as racists for their own race-baiting lies.

[dailykoff]

21. You mean the Clinton campaign?

For once I agree with you.

[bigtree]

23. no I mean Obama defenders here. They think their little race-baiting is righteous

. . .but, it's just plain old race-baiting to take comments out of context and cry racism . . . just to elevate a political candidate who happens to be black. It's as if they think they just invented the tactic.

[dailykoff]

25. Yes, but you inadvertently described the Clinton camp.

Ironic isn't it.

[bigtree]

27. Oh, that's sooo cute.

what a waste of space

[Vinca]

32. It's truly amazing a Democratic candidate would use right wing

talking points against another Democrat. What, exactly, makes Obama an "elitist?" The fact he's very smart and highly educated? What a horrible, horrible thing to be. It can't be a money thing - both Hillary and McCain are in the $100 million range (just average folks). Had to laugh at Hillary empathizing with the people in Pennsylvania by complaining about her summer cottage and it's lack of utilities. I imagine she wouldn't want them to know about the $94,000 bill for home office cleaning.

[KoKo]

34. But, there are Democrats here who use RW TP's against other Dems....

"Pot...Kettle." :eyes:

[Evergreen Emerald]

58. what? Obama uses right wing talking points all the time: healthcare

flyer for one.

Critism of Obama does not = "Racism!"

[formercia]

33. Hillary, champion of the common man

:rofl:

Hillary, tell us who you were thinking about when you voted for the Bankruptcy Bill.

[BadgerLaw2010]

35. These comments about "fly over country" have always been elitist and offensive.

[Lucky 13]

36. Apparently the uppity black man don't know his place.

What's funny is everytime Clinton thinks, "Oooh I got him on that one," He ALWAYS comes back with a snappy retort that makes her look STUPID for saying anything in the first place.

Please PLEASE let Carter and Gore put her out of her misery soon.

[Hepburn]

37. In a word, "yes!" n/t

[K Gardner]

41. It is what they all mean.. and we need to start calling it exactly what it is.

[Bonobo]

42. I remember when she said "SLUMLORD" during one of the early debates.

Same deal.

[Tom Rinaldo]

48. Slumlords are typically thought of as being white people with money

who are exploiting the dire economic circumstances of racial minorities. I don't know the actual statistics to say whether the perception matches the reality, I doubt there is an official category for "slumlord" in any records. I don't remember the exact exchange so I am not sure of the accuracy of your memory, what I remember is that accusations were made that Rezko, who Obama did some legal work on behalf of, was a slumlord.

If this is your example of "same deal" I agree with you. It is an attempt to make a racial issue with Obama as a victim out of a controversy that does not at root revolve around race.

[Bonobo]

59. When it happened, I wrote a thread entitled

"When Hillary said 'Slumlord', was she really saying "Slum'?"

My opinion, then and even more so now, is that what she was going for was to paint him into the "dirty world of the streets". Nice, normal, white people don't often get their hands dirty with slums or slumlords. Simply to have the association made between Obama and "slum" was what the Clinton camp wanted IMO.

Obamaslum Obamaslum Obamaslum.

[Tom Rinaldo]

64. Not all that suprisingly I see it differently

Poverty has always been a Democratic Party concern, not just a minority concern. The Democratic Party has plenty of white office holders in urban areas who get elected by representing the concerns of their constituecny. State wide Democratic office holders, white, yellow, tan or black, need to be sensitive to economic issues and to minority concerns because Democrats count on the urban vote to win.

Democrats, white and black, have been running against slum lords since before FDR. It is a classic political controversy for any Democrat to be exposed as having cloes ties to anything or anyone associated with "slumlords". White Democrats have been taken down when it has been revealed that some of their financial assets are invested in ways that leave them vulneralbe to charges that they themselves are slumlords.

If we begin making the equation that Blacks are disproportionally poor, therefor talking about poverty is code for talking about poor blacks, and talking about poor blacks is code for pointing out to voters that Obama is black, and that is code for reminding people that they are not comfortable around blacks because blacks are linked with the worst stigmas of poverty, our democracy is highly at risk because then either only blacks can talk about poverty, or whites can only talk about poverty when there is no black in the race.

All kinds of talking points abound about one or the other Clinton's ties to this or that person with ill tainted money who does not have the interest of working class and poor Americans at heart. An alleged connection to a slumlord is fair poltical game to explore in Democratic politics.

[Bonobo]

66. All true, but you consistently fail to see the pattern that has emerged from her campaign.

Whether it is Bitter-Gate, Snub-Gate or Whatever-Gate, Hillary is running another Sound-Byte campaign that assumes the very worst about the public -that they cannot be expected to understand complexities, and that on the contrary, they can be manipulated with cherry-picked sound-bytes.

I would be relieved if you would be honest enough to admit that Hillary has run a rather disgusting campaign. Failing to do so makes it hard to reach common ground.

Bitter-gate for example. If you would watch the Charlie Rose interview with Obama from '04, as posted by MalikFlavors, you would see the complexity of the issue that he was touching upon. I am fairly sure Hillary gets it too, but her cynical willingness to use EVEN THIS issue of economic fairness against Obama (in a most nauseatingly Rovian fashion to boot!) is very telling.

Can you not admit that it is sickening and can you not see that Obama has been largely running a positive, hopeful campaign?

[Tom Rinaldo]

69. You are really pushing it here Bonobo, lol

First off, I was commenting on a narrow matter on this thread. I found the attempt to link a controversy over whether some comments Obama made can be perceived to contain an elitist subtext into a racial controversy instead, to be off base and highly problematic in its own right.

You just hauled out a huge can of worms and want me to accept a can opener from you. I truly think both campaigns have played hard ball but the nature of the political landscape has been more conducive to Obama leaving less DIRECT fingerprints on the most negative aspects of this campaign relative to Clinton's situation. Racial politics is one area in which I feel that comes up and this thread is actually an example of that for me.

I have a complex read on both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama but I essentially believe that both are highly talented individuals who mean well for our nation. But as much as I am able to in the course of providing some what I feel to be fair defense to Hillary Clinton against the most ourtageous charges made against her, I do not linger on the ways in which I think the overall Obama campaign has been less than positive and hopeful in the full scope of their endeavors, not just Obama's own public comments. I choose not to focus on attacking Obama, so this is not a conversation thread I either welcome or want to pursue.

[Bonobo]

70. Gotcha. We'll meet again, pahdnuh.

[MethuenProgressive]

44. Once agian, "if you are against Obama, you're a racist".

Another race baiting thread, so its no wonder the DUbamas are rec'ing it.

[Lucinda]

71. At least they are consistent.

You can set your watch by them.

[Tom Rinaldo]

46. Attempts to link a controversy over whether Obama's comments were elitist in tone

with accusations Obama is being put in his place for being "uppity", and thereby attempting to slide this into a controversy about race baiting IS race baiting, and that is uglier than any allegation I have seen acutually raised.

[aquarius dawning]

47. What a pathetic attempt to play the race card...again.

[brentspeak]

49. Uh, no

:eyes:

[rodeodance]

50. She is not into the Obama game of WORT (What Obama Really Meant)

[MonkeyFunk]

51. No, she doesn't

but you guys LOVE to accuse her of being racist anyway.

[formercia]

52. Alienating Black folks

By using the term 'Elitist' in reference to Obama, Hillary is also trying to alienate black people toward Obama by trying to portray him as being out of touch with the majority of persons of color.

[Bake]

53. Code word my ass! Elitist does not mean uppity.

How many times have the Obots thrown the "uppity" bait out there? Has ANYONE in the Clinton camp used the word "uppity?" NO! But you're all just trying your best to get somebody to toss the "uppity N-word" out there, so you can have an "Aha!" moment.

Not taking the bait.

Bake

[Exilednight]

55. Limpballs like to call minority Democrats 'elitist', and we all know what it means.........

don't pretend like this is beneath Hillary. This isn't first time she has used neo-con slang to help promote her candidacy.

[QC]

62. He frequently called Gore and Kerry elitists, too.

Are they secretly black and only Limbaugh knows?

[KingFlorez]

54. No

It's quite a stretch to say she meant anything else. It has to do with Obama's bitter comment and nothing else.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

57. Umm, no.

Come on. It is what it is. Which is way of alienating average American voters from Obama's message. That's all, nothing more.

[LowerManhattanite]

61. Yep. n/t

[Algorem]

63. Barack's allied with gaybashing preachers:does he really mean

to say gays are "strange fruits"?

[backscatter712]

65. He's also allied with gay-embracing preachers.

Oh, you didn't know that Rev. Wright staunchly supports the GLBT community, did you? All you chose to hear was "God damn America."

See what happens when you turn people into cartoon characters?

[Algorem]

68. nobody was talking about "the garlic-nose guy"

[backscatter712]

67. Yeah. She's been blowing the dog whistle repeatedly in this campaign.