What Clinton wishes she could say

[BzaDem]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9564.html

--snip--

A lot of coverage of the Clinton campaign supposes them to be in kitchen-sink mode — hurling every pot and pan, no matter the damage this might do to Obama as the likely Democratic nominee in the fall.

In fact, the Democratic race has not been especially rough by historical standards. What’s more, our conversations with Democrats who speak to the Clintons make plain that their public comments are only the palest version of what they really believe: that if Obama is the nominee, a likely Democratic victory would turn to a near-certain defeat.

Far from a no-holds-barred affair, the Democratic contest has been an exercise in self-censorship.

Rip off the duct tape and here is what they would say: Obama has serious problems with Jewish voters (goodbye Florida), working-class whites (goodbye Ohio) and Hispanics (goodbye, New Mexico).


--snip--

[Tellurian]

1. The Back Story is the real story..

sorry about that.. on a cursory glance..I got the wrong impression of the article..

a few more graphs fleshing out the story..which imo is nothing we're allowed to address on this board. Why I don't know.

"Skepticism about Obama’s general election prospects extends beyond Clinton backers. We spoke to unaffiliated Democratic lawmakers, veteran lobbyists, and campaign operatives who believe the rush of enthusiasm for Obama’s charisma and fresh face has inhibited sober appraisals of his potential weaknesses.

The concerns revolve around two themes.

The first is based on the campaign so far. Assuming voting patterns evident in the nominating contest continue into the fall, Obama would be vulnerable if McCain can approximate the traditional GOP performance in key states.

The second is based on fear about the campaign ahead. (which imo is more important)

Stories about Obama’s Chicago associations with 1960s radicals Bernardine Dohrn and William Ayers landed with barely a ripple. So, too, did questions about whether he once backed a total ban on handguns (he says no but in a 1996 state legislative race his campaign filled out a questionnaire saying yes). Obama’s graceful handling of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright controversy may have turned that into a net positive against Clinton.

But all this was in a Democratic contest. What about about when Obama’s running against a Republican?

two more thought provoking pages here

[jackson_dem]

37. Yup which is why Obama wants this to end as soon as possible

The longer it goes on the greater the chances that people will wake up from their msm induced trance and start asking the hard questions.

[DemBones DemBones]

40. And there's something very undemocratic and unDemocratic about

the sudacity of hype suggesting he will be the nominee when there are still ten more primaries, and about his and Dean's and Brazile's insistence that Florida and Michigan voters be disenfranchised. Dean and Brazile are obviously supporting Obama, probably hoping to be in his administration -- what a disaster that would be!

McCain will win if the Dems nominate Obama. Thanks a lot, Barack, we could have had President Clinton, President Edwards, maybe President Biden, anyone of whom could have beaten McCain but you had to jump in, breaking your promise to serve six years in the Senate before campaigning for another office, dividing the party and the country.

You'll be remembered for your selfishness and elitism and how you cost the party an election which should have been a sure win.

[Faygo Kid]

2. ". . . hurling every pot and pan . . ." Didn't they do that last Friday?

Extraordinary article. Probably does reflect the coronation attitude of the Hillary backers. Unfortunate reference to "every pot and pan," though.

[Tellurian]

6. Nic pic...thanks for posting..

:hi:

[Faygo Kid]

19. Glad you enjoyed it. More glad that I'm not on "ignore" for you.

I'm pretty much on the "ignore" list from all the Hillary backers here, despite the fact that I have engaged in no name calling, and never will.

I don't put people here on ignore. Ever. So I appreciate the response, although you and I go at it hammer and tongs, Tellurian.

Thanks, and bye for now.

[Debi]

16. OMG

:rofl:

[rodeodance]

20. I disagree with your statement--It is the BO fans here on DU that claim the coronation for BO>

Probably does reflect the coronation attitude of the Hillary backers. Unfortunate reference to "every pot and pan," though.

[DemBones DemBones]

41. Absolutely. They want HRC to just drop out, though BO has only a tiny lead

and there are ten primaries to go. They will have to wait until Denver, though it looks as if that creep Howard Dean and turncoat Donna Brazile are trying to stack the convention for Obama. How very democratic of those so-called Democrats.

Obots are like the Bushies in 2000, assuming their guy is entitled to the nomination.

Obama has the smugness, the 'I'm better than you peons' attitude' and the smirky smile.

Just what I wanted to see on the Democratic ticket. :sarcasm:

[PseudoIntellect]

51. Switch the names Obama and Clinton, and you wouldn't be calling it a tiny lead.

[Usrename]

53. An insurmountable lead.

She lost.

[Catchawave]

32. More Cow Bell ! Love it.

Great idea for the next protest :hi:

[JVS]

54. Thanks. That picture needed more cowbell!

[Tellurian]

3. The co-writers give a true and succinct insight into Obama vulnerability

and the danger we face having him as the nominee. Proof.. The authors of this article have brought out points, we as Hillary supporters have been asking BO supporters for months. Obama supporters defend him with the ridiculous defense strategy of attacking Hillary.. They fail to understand we want to win the White House against the Republicans, how do Obama supporters plan on defending Obama when Hillary is no longer their fall back defense against a Republican attack?

I'd like a preview of some kind of defense plan from Obama supporters defending Obama against Republican attacks..

The authors of this article give a tentative outline on the third page the vulnerabilities Obama faces with these salient points:

"Let’s take the first point: Obama’s electoral coalition. His impressive success to date comes predominately from strong support among upscale, college-educated whites and overwhelming support from African-Americans.

***Assuming he is the Democratic nominee, it seems virtually certain he would bring turnout of these groups to historic levels. But McCain would be challenging Obama on a range of issues that would complicate this coming together — issues that Clinton did not use or used minimally because they were not particularly effective in a Democratic campaign.

***McCain, by contrast, would have a free hand to exploit a paper trail showing Obama’s evolution — opponents would say reversals — over the past decade from liberal positions on gun control, the death penalty and Middle East politics. He would exploit Obama’s current position in favor of driver’s licenses for illegal immigrants and beginning diplomatic talks with U.S. adversaries like the dictators of Iran and Venezuela. Will those issues help lower-income white voters “come back together” with Obama?

***The freak show has already signaled its early lines of attack on Obama. Polls show a significant percentage of Americans believe — falsely — that he is a Muslim. Voter interviews reveal widespread unease with minor and seemingly irrelevant questions like why he does not favor American flag pins on his lapel. Nor have we heard the last about Wright and his fulminations.Here will be the real kitchen sink: every damaging comment or association from Obama’s past, mixed together with innuendo and downright fiction, to portray him as an an exotic character of uncertain values and weak patriotism.

page 3

Will any Obama supporters come forward with a viable defense to these obeservations? Or will these questions be relegated to the dust bin because there isn't a BO supporter that has any other plan except for attacking Hillary or attacking the poster of the message or attacking the website from which the article comes from or the authors of the article....which won't mean squat to the Republicans or the general public?

[SeaLyons]

62. ....

:thumbsup:

[Tellurian]

4. Amazing...90 page views and everyone is stumpted...impossible!

[zabet]

5. K and R

;)

[Tellurian]

7. 110 page views and ***crickets*** from Obama supporters..

Looking at the main page...99 threads venting hatred of Hillary and not one Obama person able to defend their candidate using the above Rules of the GE game.

Yup, you give us all the confidence in the World Obama should be the Democratic Nominee...

[cali]

8. Already posted

and I already commented- as did other Obama supporters.

[Debi]

17. Did you take a close look at the pic in post #2?

x( Hilarious.

[Tellurian]

9. Only one Hillary supporter gets it in the dupe thread...Tom Rinaldo

You can read here how many use the excuses that would not be acceptable here as defending Obama against Republicans And the ones who think voicing their opinion based on their thought process is enough to thwart a Republican attack because they are too lazy to provide iron clad proof..with links..!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5480039#5480122

This may be one of the best reasons we've stumbled on for supporting Hillary as the Dem Nominee...

Obama supporters aren't up for the fight!

[LiberalZrule]

10. That is

am impressive article and I could not express my reservations about Obama any better.

[Tellurian]

29. It is a serious concern the Obama Team has never allowed anyone to address..

They have had the best fighters in the World banned because they can't defend their candidate.. So what will they do with Republicans who will spend millions on the cable shows destroying the Dem Nominee?:

[nichomachus]

11. I think there are a lot of things

" has inhibited sober appraisals of his potential weaknesses."

I think there are a lot of things inhibiting sober appraisals

[Tellurian]

12. It's about Obama.. Don't forget..

read my posts.. NO Hillary BS here..

Here is an example: Excellent and on point...

Experience vs. Judgment: The First McCain-Obama Debate

guest post by Yab

My latest nightmare, the first debate between McCain and Obama:

Obama will bring out that old line he's used against Hillary that judgment outweighs experience when the latter's result is Iraq.

McCain, with a twinkle in his eye and that half-smile, will look at the audience and say "He made one statement about the Iraq war being dumb back in 2004 and thinks that qualifies him to be President. What is the younger generation coming to?"

That exchange will be run repeatedly by all the news networks that have been praising Obama as the Next Coming and, all of a sudden, all those pundits will say "gee, you know, McCain is right".

I realize that many Obama supporters assume that Americans, who now overwhelmingly oppose the war in Iraq, will not support a man, McCain, who endorses the war. What they do not realize is that Americans do still see the world as a dangerous place and, when push comes to shove, they will prefer a "straight-talking" President with lots of experience to an arrogant young man in a very big hurry.

[guyanakoolaid]

13. She wishes she could say "sorry" about her IWR vote, but it's a bit too late for that

It's hilarious to see Democrats running around talking about chances in the GE, while supporting a warmongering candidate many Dems will never vote for.

[unblock]

14. are you seriously suggesting that jews will vote for mccain???

jews are the second most reliably democratic voting bloc. we're NOT voting for mccain. nice try, though.

[Hepburn]

24. I spewed Diet Dr. Brown Cream soda all over my keyboard...

...on that one! Sure...Jews just LOVE John McCain! :rofl:

[unblock]

25. mmmmm cream soda....

:loveya:

[Hepburn]

28. Good stuff....

...especially on a hot day. Today in SoCal, it is 90 degrees and I live by the beach!

:hi:

[Lucinda]

15. Interesting read!

Thanks for posting.

[Tellurian]

49. Simply the Best...better than all the rest...

[powergirl]

18. We elect our presidents by votes

not by what Clinton and her friends think. Maybe we should let her set up a McClinton panel and every four years let them select our next president. Obama is beating Clinton by every measure. They just need to get Clinton's approval and everything will work out okay.



:sarcasm:

[DemBones DemBones]

42. Not with Howard Dean blocking the votes of two states we don't.

It's a conspiracy to steal the nomination for Obama whether he wins it or not. Brazile is involved and other people who used to be Democrats. Votes? Who cares? "We just love Obama so we'll rig the vote at the convention, screw the voters. What are they gonna do, vote Republican?"

They will reap the whirlwind as Dems refuse to vote for this pretender. Many will vote for McCain because Obama is a liar and a con artist who has never won an honest election.

[powergirl]

57. Conspiracy?

So, Clinton is losing because of a conspiracy???? She is losing because people are NOT VOTING for her. SHe didn't give a rip about Michigan and Florida until she was losing. The hypocrisy is stunning.

[rodeodance]

21. REC

[juajen]

22. Yes, indeedy. Great Post!

I would love to see them unleashed, but I'm supposing that would be very bad for the party.

[Tellurian]

27. Did you notice, not one Obama Supporter can defend the outlined attacks

in the article coming from Republicans. And they expect us to drop everything, support Obama, when none of them have a clue how to defend Obama against the RW attacks against the radical Rev Wright, Obama's unpatriotism, his recent SF bitter treats... nothing, zero, nada, plans to ensure a Democratic president in the WH in 09'

yeah, right away... we're going to line up and go over the cliff with you!



This little graphic becomes more relevant every day that goes by!

[rodeodance]

23. read the rest of the article---: I think the SD know this --

......."Skepticism about Obama’s general election prospects extends beyond Clinton backers. We spoke to unaffiliated Democratic lawmakers, veteran lobbyists, and campaign operatives who believe the rush of enthusiasm for Obama’s charisma and fresh face has inhibited sober appraisals of his potential weaknesses.

The concerns revolve around two themes.

The first is based on the campaign so far. Assuming voting patterns evident in the nominating contest continue into the fall, Obama would be vulnerable if McCain can approximate the traditional GOP performance in key states.

The second is based on fear about the campaign ahead. (which imo is more important)

Stories about Obama’s Chicago associations with 1960s radicals Bernardine Dohrn and William Ayers landed with barely a ripple. So, too, did questions about whether he once backed a total ban on handguns (he says no but in a 1996 state legislative race his campaign filled out a questionnaire saying yes). Obama’s graceful handling of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright controversy may have turned that into a net positive against Clinton.

But all this was in a Democratic contest. What about about when Obama’s running against a Republican?

two more thought provoking pages here

[BooScout]

26. K&R n/t

[MattNC]

30. "Goodbye, New Mexico"

Except for the fact that he's, you know, leading there.

[jackson_dem]

35. It is a metaphor for Latino votes

He is leading now. Will he be leading after the rethugs finally attack him? He is the "new" candidate in a change year. He should be killing McSame nationally right now, not losing...

[MattNC]

43. Come on...

"After the rethugs finally attack him?" Where have you been? He's constantly hammered by conservative press, pundits...plus the Clinton machine.

"He should be killing McSame nationally right now, not losing..."

Well it depends on what poll you look at; he's leading in some. Plus, I don't expect a newcomer to dominated a seasoned, respected senator like McCain...ever. But, he will certainly get a bounce when/if he wraps up the nomination and the divided Dem base has the chance to cool down a bit and coalesce around the nominee.

[jackson_dem]

46. You think the rethugs have went after him?

You haven't seen anything yet if he makes it to the GE...

He is BARELY leading in some and he consistently loses in the electoral college. He should be ahead comfortably as the "new" candidate in a change year. Bush, the "new candidate" that year, lead Gore, a seasoned, respected, and better known candidate than McSame, by 11 points at about this time in 2000 and the desire for change was nowhere near what it is now. Obama should be up by at least 10 points, probably 15.

What happened in 2000 when the divided rethug base had a chance to coalesce? Bush went from +11 to -0.4 by November. The new candidate will go down as he gets defined by the opposing party. We have not seen the rethugs launch a sustained offensive against him yet. Look at what they did to Kerry (+8 to -3). Obama is even more vulnerable than Kerry or Bush 00' were...

[MattNC]

47. Yes, they did

He has been hammered on Wright relentlessly, while taking plenty of criticism on other issues, yet you are blatantly ignoring that. I don't know why. Newsflash: The Republican slime machine is going to be rough toward both Clinton/Obama...no question about it.

He also does not "consistently lose in the electoral college." Rather, it's very fluid...same with Clinton. Plus, many state polls hold little value at the moment. I recall Kerry leading in Arkansas/Tennessee at times.

And if you want to cite history, let's go back to 1992, another "change" election year. For the early part of the year, roughly the time around now, Clinton trailed an unpopular Bush and faced enormous questions regarding character, etc. We both know how that election turned out.

With the 2000 election, I admit I didn't pay much attention to it. (freshmen in college...just ventured into politics) But I do remember Bush stumbling at times, and of course almost all races tighten toward the end. Still...I'll take your word for it on that election.

As for Kerry, he also trailed terribly at times, and he was a terrible candidate to run against Bush. He trailed at times in the summer and was down well over 10 points after the Republican convention. The drop after the convention lends credence to your theory about the Republican onslaught; but, again, you think they'll be just a little less mean to Sen. Clinton? Hardly.

[PatGund]

64. Not only that

If Sen. Clinton gets the nomination, the very same Right-Wing media and RW slime machine hacks and pundits that are helping her attack Sen. Obama will turn on her in an instant.

They've been slobbering on the chain for years hoping to run against her.

[ProSense]

31. Her campaign already pushed that talking point: Hispanics will not vote for Obama

That was back in January, and she is still losing.

She can say whatever she wants to, call Obama elitist and divisive, she's going to lose.

Kerry lost NM by a only less than 6,000 votes. Obama can win.

Yes. He. Can.

[okasha]

33. If Obama is the candidate, expect the Hispanic vote to go to McCain

on his immigration stance, war hero status and social policies.

Most Hispanics really don't care about the high price of arugula in Whole Foods, something that so upsets your candidate.

[Tellurian]

34. Blah, blah blah! defend your candidiate...IF you can..

[jackson_dem]

36. Please. One unknown pollster is not "her campaign"

The article in the OP is exactly right. Obama has not faced anything yet. If he is the nominee he will lose his biggest asset: msm support and come under intense fire from the msm and rethugs over his shockingly great and obvious flaws as a general election candidate.

[MattNC]

44. Not faced anything yet?

Seriously, how can you possibly say that?

[sueragingroz]

38. what people fail to understand

Is that Obama's comments feed into the perception that the RNC has been trying to feed - ie the perception that democrats are a bunch of elitist liberal snobs.

If Clinton doesn't go after him hard on this issue, she risks being tainted by it herself... her and ALL democrats.

Democrats need to come out against this if they have any hope of

a) Getting back the White House
b) Retaining the majorities in congress.

This is a massive issue that will be overplayed in the GE if Obama is the nominee.

[Diana Prince]

39. My favorite line..

That is why some friends describe Clinton as seeing herself on a mission to save Democrats from themselves.

[Hoof Hearted]

45. K & R. Thanks for this post.

[kikiek]

48. Finally someone saying the truth! Great article. Big K&R

[anonymous171]

50. Then why is he winning? This isn't making a whole lot of sense.

[Emit]

55. It's all just an illusion

[Usrename]

52. Clinton has serious problems with Democratic voters.

Goodbye to all fifty states.

[Tellurian]

56. We are talking about Obama as the nominee..

why would you use Clinton as a response when she will not be the nominee?

[Usrename]

60. Then you must agree that the race for the nomination is over.

What is there left to discuss?

[Tellurian]

61. What planet are you living on?

Who said the race was over? When was it declared?

I said, "Obama as the nominee"..

[Usrename]

63. What are the alternatives if Obama is not the nominee?

Does your elevator go to the top floor?

[Tellurian]

65. You tell me..

[Usrename]

66. Hillary? The candidate who cannot muster Democratic support?

Are we back to where we started with my first post?

[Taxmyth]

58. Over 1 day and not ANY cogent responses from Obama supporters

The MSM knows which side their bread is buttered on and their shutting down any coverage for Senator Edwards should have shown that. The 'net has been a phenomenal source of support for the D's and in prior years has all but cancelled out that bias. This Presidential election cycle is different. There are most certainly GOP Plants on the 'net seeking to disrupt the process and negate the strength once delivered by boards like this.

Senator Obama has SERIOUS electability issues in the GE and Senator Clinton has taken it very easy on him so as to not fracture the Party. You wouldn't know that by reading these message boards since ANY criticism of Senator Obama is responded to, NOT by a refutation of that criticism but by more attacks on Senator Clinton.

[mopinko]

59. just

:puke: his exotic life story??

[wrando]

67. mathews

One of these Politico right wing idiots was on hardball and he had to admit they don't have any evidence that any of this is true. It's just more outrageous crap from the sorry media we have, that Obama is about to inherit.

bill from ct