Dem rural wizard who advised Edwards, Warner blasts Obama's stereotyping (Mudcat Saunders)

[jackson_dem]

-snip-

MISHAWAKA, Indiana (CNN) — Dave ‘Mudcat’ Saunders, the Virginia-based Democratic strategist credited with helping big-name politicians appeal to rural voters, said Saturday Barack Obama has “got a bunch of explaining to do” over his claims that economically-frustrated Americans “cling to guns or religion” when they get “bitter.”

“I’m a southern boy myself,” Saunders told CNN by phone. “I don’t have a gun because I’m bitter, it’s because I’ve always had one. I don’t pray to God because I’m bitter. I pray to God because it makes my life better.”

-snip-

“The one thing that I preached during this whole deal is we can’t be stereotyping anybody,” he said. “Well, Barack Obama just stereotyped my people out in rural America.”

“Here’s a guy who says he shouldn’t be stereotyped, but yet he stereotyped us.”

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/12/southern-democrat-obamas-got-a-bunch-of-explaining-to-do/#more-6392

[TLM]

1. You mean like this....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/13/bill-clinton-flashback-al_n_96433.html

"The reason (George H. W. Bush's tactic) works so well now is that you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death," Clinton was quoted saying by the Los Angeles Times in September 1991.

A couple months later, Joe Klein, writing for the Sunday Times, reported that Clinton made the following remarks:

"You know, he wants to divide us over race. I'm from the South. I understand this. This quota deal they're gonna pull in the next election is the same old scam they've been pulling on us for decade after decade after decade. When their economic policies fail, when the country's coming apart rather than coming together, what do they do? They find the most economically insecure white men and scare the living daylights out of them. They know if they can keep us looking at each other across a racial divide, if I can look at Bobby Rush and think, Bobby wants my job, my promotion, then neither of us can look at George Bush and say, 'What happened to everybody's job? What happened to everybody's income? What ... have ... you ... done ... to ... our ... country?'"

[jackson_dem]

2. Not the same, besides Bill isn't running. Mudcat gets it. Starbucks Obamites don't

[merbex]

4. They get it but they have developed what Drew Westen calls "a partisan brain"

and when that happens they rationalize everything their candidate does even when it's wrong.

Objectivity goes out the door.

Everyone on this board should read Westen's book "The Political Brain"

It explains this board.

[jackson_dem]

6. Yup!

:thumbsup:

[virtualobserver]

8. "a partisan brain" admires the courage of survivors of imaginary sniper fire

[merbex]

22. It explains the defense of someone who imagined the sniper fire

[jackson_dem]

58. Her comment was a lie. Now can any Obamite admit Obama has lied in the past?

[Zhade]

51. That's rich from someone who supports a proven liar.

Look out! Snipers! I mean, a little girl!

[jackson_dem]

59. We all do. Every politician lies numerous times.

Do we need to list just some of St. Obama's lies? This is why I call him St. Obama. His followers actually view him as a saint.

[JoFerret]

82. Good advice.

.

[TLM]

49. Keep pushing that right wing starbucks line....

According to your hypocritical attack standards... Bill called rural americans insecure racist cowards.

"you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death,"

Wow pulling a single line out of context to spin as an attack is easy...

Why do the clinton's hate rural working folk???

Is it because they don't have 109 million like the clintons?

[Inspired]

79. I wish you wouldn't call us Starbucks Obamites. Some of us prefer Dunkin' Donuts. n/t

[Alter Ego]

83. "Starbucks Obamites", eh?

There are no words.

[formernaderite]

84. actually I'm an Obamite....and I get it

People should get their heads out of the sand on this one. Good thing it's come up early enough that it should have bled out by the summer. But anyone who doesn't "get it" is either an idiot...or they are sooo naieve they just can't comprehend people owning and enjoying firearms for any reason. The religion thing is just the same...those who are into religion, have always been so....doesn't mean they are more so because they're down and out. It would be just as silly for me to say that urban minorities who go to charismatic churches do so cause they're poor and down trodden...they've been going all along, and continue to even when they move out of the city. This was as stupid gaffe...let's just acknowledge that and move on.

[madfloridian]

3. When Obama said the same thing they jumped all over him

When Dean tried to do it, he was viciously attacked. But its ok if the Clintons do it.

[jackson_dem]

5. Obama and Dean didn't say the same thing. Obama's comment is worse than Dean's

Ironic to see a big Dean fan like you behind Obama. Obama is being brought to us by the same people who took Dean (and Edwards) down...

[virtualobserver]

7. An honorable man like Dean is, I'm sure, disgusted with Hillary's tactics

The American people will see through the Hillary smokescreen.
Hillary's response to the question about the last time she went to church and shot a gun was hilarious............and after she was touting her rural cred she states that it "is not a relevant question in this debate” . What a an embarrassment!....People can spot a phony a mile away.

[jackson_dem]

9. What does Hillary have to do with Obama being a bigot toward small town folks?

Is Hillary the new Clenis? The Clagina?

[virtualobserver]

13. no, just someone who will say anthing to win

just like her supporters.

[madfloridian]

37. I am impressed by Obama's ability. I was impressed by Dean's ability.

I am not impressed by Hillary at all anymore.

I think what Obama said was the truth.

[jackson_dem]

57. Ability to do what?

I can understand former Dean and Edwards supporters now favoring Obama over Clinton. What I don't understand is why so many former Dean and Edwards supporters are enthusiastically behind Obama now. He is brought to us by the same elements who took Dean and Edwards down. Obviously he is not what they were or else the same forces who wanted to take them down would not be pushing Obama.

[madfloridian]

62. Who are these "forces" you mention?

Could you be specific?

[jackson_dem]

68. Primarily corporations and their propaganda mills known as the msm

[Igel]

41. To be honest, Bill Clinton's rhetoric

is the kind of stuff that Obama was talking about on the Charlie Rose show in 2004.

Being condescending and dismissive of rural Americans. "I'm smarter and more sophisticated, so I know that all this talk that you take seriously is actually displaced resentment at real economic issues that I can fix; I fully appreciate that this displacement is conditioned by the evil republicans because you are so weak as to allow yourself to be manipulated and played like a violin. Please, let me enlighten you with my wisdom, and offer you secular salvation, to teach you what true values are that you may be happy and find unity in our--my--cause." Yes, it's condescending. Obama was right: Talk like that is caustic, the underlying tenor comes through even if people don't know exactly how they arrive at at.

But in this case, Clinton and Obama are on the same page, at least partially: Obama did speak of "clinging ... to antipathy" towards those who are different, to "anti-immigrant sentiment". Clinton's 'suckers, you're being manipulated into being racist' is echoed in Obama mellifluous words.

Now, about guns and religion, Obama's crucial addition to what "Bill" said ...

[tularetom]

10. What "mudcat" really means is

"me and my pals were lookin for a reason not to vote fer that colored guy. Praise jeebus he gave us one".

[Tellurian]

11. K&R #5

[jackson_dem]

12. Thanks for proving our point. Obamites reflect their candidate's bigotry

Mudcat? Mudcat said after Edwards dropped out he would do "anything" to stop Hillary. The fact he is saying this speaks volumes about how damaging it is to our chances to win the general election if we nominate Obama. He knows his comment will help Clinton yet he still said it. What does that tell you? Saunders knows Obama is done in rural America. Too bad Obama's affluent, big city base doesn't.

[virtualobserver]

14. is Rendell a bigot when he says that people in Penn aren't ready to vote for a black person?

[bridgit]

15. By Obama's own template, isn't Rendell just being realistic?

When will this 'it may be good for your goose, but it's no good for gander' nonsense end

[virtualobserver]

18. no, that is my point....neither of them are bigots

I'm just tired of this poster constantly calling people, including Obama, bigots.

[jackson_dem]

21. Obama stereotyped all small town folks. Rendell spoke only of racists

You don't think there are some racists in PA? Rendell spoke the truth. Obama smeared all small town folks with a negative stereotype.

[virtualobserver]

24. you just stepped into your own bullshit

[AX10]

53. True. When Obama speaks of controversy, he his hailed...

for "tackling" the "tough" issues. When someone else does it, they are condemned for being devisive.
At this point, I am sick of hearing about how every damn word coming out of Obama's mouth is "the greatest thing every said" and everyone else is just a pile of crap.

[tularetom]

17. Thanks for stereotyping me pal

I live on 40 acres out here 30 miles from a town of any size. I used to own 160 and lease another 320 and raised cattle for many years until I got too arthritic to keep up with it. I probably own more firearms than "mudcat" has ever seen. I don't really care much for that church shit but in most other ways I'm as "rural" as you can be.

And as far as I'm concerned Obama is right on. How am I supposed to take seriously anybody who goes around callin himself mudcat. And talkin like jed clampit's retarded cousin.

[jackson_dem]

23. I wasn't talking about you but Obamanation in general, which is based in metro areas and affluent

No offense, but do you realize how out of touch with mainstream America the "netroots" are? In the blogosphere Wright is a hero, Clinton a villain...

[virtualobserver]

28. hillary is out of touch with her surroundings

you should give her a ride to church and the gun range, since she hasn't been to either in a while.

[jackson_dem]

29. What does Hillary have to do with Obama being a snob?

[virtualobserver]

33. what connection does that phrase have to do with reality? no connection

[DemsUnited]

85. Mudcat also said that Clinton's sniper lies may be worse than

Obama's gaffe

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/rural-dem-strat.html

That said, Saunders says he's "not sure it's gonna have the legs of that Bosnia deal," referring to Sen. Hillary Clinton's oft-told, since-discredited story that in 1996 she landed in Bosnia amidst sniper fire.

Saunders says rural Americans are 19 percent of the population but constitute 27 percent of the casualties from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, referring to a recent study.

"I've heard several remarks in restaurants about that," he says. "Here in a small town, in rural America, there's a high degree of patriotism."

"There's a lot of veterans out here, it's part of the culture, a lot of people go into the service.

"And have heard some veterans -- neither Republican nor Democrat, just veterans, just regular guys, raise holy hell about Hillary and the Bosnia episode," Saunders says.

Vets don't like it when people lie about war.

[kevinmc]

16. Edwards should ask for a refund if he paid that guy for his advice ...

for all the good it did him.

[PurityOfEssence]

20. Really? He took second in Iowa, didn't he?

I'd call that a pretty rural state, wouldn't you?

[PurityOfEssence]

19. Obama's repeatedly played the god card with cynical aplomb; perhaps this is karma

There's a very ugly connotation to what he said: religion is a failing of the weak. At best, clinging to it is shown as somehow wrong, and that's going to come back to haunt him.

Yet another reason religion should be kept out of politics: it's just too dangerous.

[Hippo_Tron]

25. I can't take anyone seriously who refers to themself as "Mudcat"

[jackson_dem]

26. How many gubernatorial races have you won in red states?

Come on hippo. You are smarter than that. Mudcat is one of our sharpest minds on rural America.

[Hippo_Tron]

31. I know he was very helpful getting Mark Warner elected Governor

Just like James Carville was very helpful getting Bill Clinton elected President. But frankly I think both of them say utterly stupid things to the media sometimes and this is one of them.

It also bothers me that Democrats need an "expert" to win rural America.

[jackson_dem]

36. It is politics. Each party has strengths and weaknesses

The rethugs need experts for urban areas, we need them for rural areas.

[ImpeechBush]

78. Don't let Mudcat Grant of Lacoochee, Florida hear that

A perfectly respectable name. He was and is a hero to a lot of young baseball fans and
even some of us older ones.




<img src="">

[jody]

27. BO wants to ban semiautomatic firearms and handguns. The only way out is for him to promise to veto

every bill that comes to him as president that infringes upon the natural, inherent, inalienable right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms for self-defense.

No excuses for past statements, or votes, or association with people/groups that want to ban handguns, semiautomatic firearms, or all guns.

Just a simple, unconditional promise to veto such bills!

IMO BO does not have the moral courage to make that promise or honor it if made.

In spite of BO's anti-RKBA history, I would vote for him in the GE but my Yellow Dog Democrat vote is not enough to put him in the White House.

I'm afraid without that promise, BO will lose millions of votes among the 80 million voters who own firearms and possibly the GE.

[jackson_dem]

30. Yup, another reason why Obama is unelectable

[jody]

34. America has 80 million voters who own guns and only 122 million people voted in the 2004 election.

Why would any candidate alienate 80 million potential voters when it only takes about 61 million votes to win a presidential election?

[Major Hogwash]

46. Which means your numbers don't translate.

Sort of like asking "how many angels dance on the head of a pin", huh?

[jody]

47. If my simple numbers don't make sense to you, then you have a personal problem. n/t

[Major Hogwash]

67. I don't know why you're upset, Obama won big in Alabama, jody.

Hmmmmm.

Strange reply.

[jody]

80. I'm not upset but apparently you are. Take a deep breath & get control of yourself, have a nice day

[AX10]

45. He wants to ban handguns?

Oye!

[jody]

52. BO was a board member of the Joyce Foundation that funds VPC and VPC's goal is to ban handguns.

Joyce offered BO a position as its president.

Would an anti-abortion group select a pro-abortion person for its president? NO!

Would an anti-handgun group select a pro-handgun person for its president? NO!

Recently BO stated that we should ban handguns.

BO bears the mark of an anti-handgun supporter from his association with the Joyce Foundation and his statements, a fact that will be noted by voters who recognize that handguns are the most effective, efficient tool for self-defense, the choice of 850,000 sworn law enforcement officers.

[mmonk]

63. Fact is, the police want LESS people armed with inexpensive firearms.

Their lives are on the line everyday, and the explosion of easily accessable handguns is a problem, not a solution.

[jody]

81. Please cite a credible source supporting your assertion "Fact . . . police want LESS people armed

with inexpensive firearms" if you intended it to apply to law-abiding citizens who are personally responsible for self-defense.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jackson_dem]

35. Pathetic. He doesn't bow down to the messiah and you call him a Klansmen

Then you wonder why folks view Obama supporters as cultish...

[AX10]

48. That kind of nonsense by Obama's supporters will hurt him in the GE.

Can't say I would feel sorry if it did. It's stupid to always call Obama's critics "racist".
This crap has gotten out of hand.

[GoldieAZ49]

74. It doesn't mean anything anymore

anyone that doesn't think Obama is Mr Wonderful is racist

eh, so what

[greguganus]

38. Rural wizard that advised Edwards.

How'd that work out? :rofl:
I'm a southern boy born and bred here in NC and laugh at "Mr. Wizard's" faux outrage.

[jackson_dem]

39. He beat Obama in rural Iowa despite being outspent 6:1 by the corporate Obama

How many gubernatorial elections have you won in red states? Sanders is one of our top minds on rural America. Obama's affluent metropolitan base? Not so much...

[Major Hogwash]

44. Ummm, how'd that work out for Edwards?

Gee, I haven't seen him on teevee for a few months now. Is he all right?

[jackson_dem]

54. His strength was in rural areas. How does your political record compare to Sander's?

Sanders is one our top minds on rural America and the fact an underfunded candidate hated by the msm and lacking corporate funding lost does nothing to change that.

[Major Hogwash]

65. I'm 1 up on Mudcat, I haven't lost a presidential campaign yet!

LoL

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

[Major Hogwash]

66. John Edwards said he didn't want to be Vice President either.

"Former presidential candidate John Edwards announced this week he will not accept the nomination for vice president. That's what he said. He will not accept the vice presidential nomination. To which the cashier at Wendy's said, 'You want a frosty with this, mister? People are waiting.'" --Jay Leno


Hoo-haw!

[Major Hogwash]

40. A guy with the nickname of "Mudcat" is complaining about being stereotyped?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

That's funnier than shit!

[OzarkDem]

42. Very true, this hurts him with Edwards supporters

and yes, Obama likes to have it both ways - don't stereotype him, but he feels free to do the same to others.

[GoldieAZ49]

75. his comments stereotype Edwards and his extended family and base

Would love to hear John and Elizabeths take on his San Francisco characterization

[Garbo 2004]

43. Mudcat on Hillary & impact of Clinton trade policies on rural America:

Mudcat: Like I said, that when I'm traveling now up through north Georgia, passing towns and be going through South Carolina and turn over into the Appalachians and everything looks like, you know, Sherman went through it but didn't burn thing, I think there is accountability involved there. For Hillary Clinton to continue to talk about the unintended consequences of NAFTA -- they weren't unintended, they were unconsidered. You know, we all heard about the giant sucking sound when they first started talking about this. I just don't think the Clintons have been a friend of my people out in rural America.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/The_Mudcat_lobby_Stop_Hillary.html

[jackson_dem]

55. Clinton has nothing to do with Obama's bigotry

Do Obamites worship them or something? Everything goes back to the Clintons.

[Garbo 2004]

71. Evidently you regard Mudcat's opinion of some value since you cite him.

You want to cherry pick his views and ignore those that support what Obama said about Dem & Repub policies failing rural America. As a former Edwards supporter, you no doubt are aware of Mudcat's publicly stated view on Hillary.

RE: "Obama's bigotry" based on his comments, you're just slinging partisan hackery BS & if you have any intellectual honesty you know that.

As for the "Obamites" crack save it. I frankly wasn't thrilled when Hillary and Obama declared their candidacies since I considered them both high risk candidates.

I don't cheerlead for politicians. I worked around pols & gov't long enough to know better.

[Zhade]

50. "I pray to God because it makes my life better" - no, you think it does.

But, like the gods you and others pray to, there is no evidence for this.

[jackson_dem]

56. Please canvass for Barack Obama

In fact I urge all Obamites here to go door to door for Obama. Heck I beg you all to do it!

[xchrom]

60. recommend

[Neshanic]

61. Mudcat is now on the non-worthies. Obama memo 75677sss-5

[Catchawave]

64. K&R for Mudcat !

:toast:

[ellie]

69. Yes,

he advised Edwards so well that Edwards is no longer in the race. And I point that out as an Edwards fan.

[Kittycat]

70. Mudcat is a day late and a dollar short... It's sunday, and the tables have turned.

[GoldieAZ49]

72. Obama is the typical liberal elitist

words matter

[anonymous171]

73. Proof? "Community Organizer" more elitist than "Corporate Lawyer for WalMart"

[GoldieAZ49]

76. "Community Organizer" to build a political base

same reason for his church of choice

[krkaufman]

77. Mudcat sounds like a reactionary idgit, regardless of who he's advised. n/t